TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

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CLIENT: That bothered me this week. I kind of sat down with my mother because she's going through some things and she's seeing a psychiatrist; and then she told me psychiatrist diagnosed her with bi-polar. I was like, "Oh, I never really saw that. I just saw stress and you were anxious all the time." She's very, very religious. I never really knew in detail. I knew she was religious, but I didn't know how fanatical she was about it and she told me that she experienced when we were younger she always told me that God hit her over the head with a Bible. (laughs) That's what she said. She had an awakening, but I didn't know how fanatic she was about it and she was telling me that it was just an overwhelming experience and that people around her saw her acting different and thought that she should speak with somebody and spoke with my father and stuff. [00:01:14] She told me some things and I didn't understand. I am religious and I believe in some things that other people don't believe in, but what she was saying, I couldn't tell my mother that it sounds like she did have a breakdown during that time. I didn't know how to think. I was upset about it.

THERAPIST: And you were upset with what she was saying her beliefs now or how she described how she was in the past or both?

CLIENT: I was upset that she isn't realizing that may be a mental conniption and that she's believing that she's very religious and she speaks to God and God speaks to her. [00:02:10] She was telling me that she hears voices. It's one thing to have thoughts and feel like you're being directed, but she told me she hears voices and sees things, so I didn't know really what to think about that.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Yeah, so that could explain a lot of my actions. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: How so?

CLIENT: Just because my parents were just it was never an emotionally stable household and it explained how I always thought my mother was kind of weird and she embarrassed me a lot, but I never understood why she acted the way that she did. [00:03:06] It was just like, "Oh."

THERAPIST: How would she act weird?

CLIENT: She's super-hyper and would say embarrassing stuff and act silly; sometimes inappropriate not inappropriate ways just kind of childish ways. She'd joke around, but it was embarrassing when you're a teenager for your mother to say some of those things. She's on an antidepressant and the doctor was telling her that that's probably not the best thing for her because she just pretty much was in a state of feeling great all the time, like kind of a high, and she never comes off of it. I think that antidepressants do that when someone is bi-polar. They keep you in a state. [00:04:04] I was reading something like that and I'm just like I don't know. There was just a lot to take in.

THERAPIST: I can imagine. I really want to get into this more, but it's so striking that you had something so important to talk about today, but you began by saying, "Where did we leave off last week?" What do you think?

CLIENT: I was thinking we left off more speaking about my father than the party. The party, I feel like that was just my insecurities. I was just being silly about that. I'm just disappointed.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you have thought about where we left off. What was it about asking me where we left off?

CLIENT: I forgot.

THERAPIST: I see. So you initially forgot and then you remembered?

CLIENT: Yeah. I forgot and I was like, "Oh. I'm kind of past that." It's really funny because there's a whole joke about it because I invite people to work and then they're like, "So when is your party?" and I'm like, "Well, it was three weeks ago." [00:05:11] They're teasing. A couple of people are like, "Oh, you aren't invited." Then they come up to me and say, "So, am I invited to your party?" and I'm like, "It was three weeks ago. It was posted." I just did it last minute and people didn't know about it, I guess, so it was funny. Yeah, the thing with my mother I don't know what to think about that.

THERAPIST: Did she just sort of sit you down? What was the motivation for her? What prompted her to start the conversation?

CLIENT: It was the day before she told me, she started talking about the antidepressant. I didn't know she was going to say any of this. [00:06:06] She said, "Me being hyper all the time is because of my illness." She was trying to look for an excuse. I told her that's not something you can just write off and diagnose you with. There's got to be something behind that. She was like, "Yeah, I know." She didn't really tell me at that point why the doctor would think that way. Then the next time I spoke with her, she was telling me all this stuff. I left the house like, "Ohhh." I don't want to make her feel bad.

THERAPIST: You don't want to make her feel bad by doing what?

CLIENT: She thought that I thought she was crazy. I don't believe that she's crazy. She's very stable. [00:07:00] She's really stressed, like a big ball of energy. She doesn't do anything non-productive; it's always positive. I was done talking about it. It really upset me.

THERAPIST: So the diagnosis is new?

CLIENT: I think so. I think she's been going to the a clinic for her diabetes and she was seeing a psychiatrist because her blood sugars were so high and they were talking about stress and mental illness and the blood sugars. They put her on Zoloft and she's just like all about this medication. (snickers) She's feeling good, but I told her I don't think it's normal or okay to be wicked good all the time, like a baseline. There are all feelings, not like high all the time and happy. I'm just afraid she'll crash. [00:08:10]

THERAPIST: If they diagnosed her with bi-polar disorder they should put her on a bipolar medication.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Do you know if they're trying to do that?

CLIENT: I don't think so. I don't think she would take it. I think they want her off of Zoloft. She doesn't really thoroughly talk to me about what her medication is.

THERAPIST: Tell me more about how you're feeling about it.

CLIENT: I don't know. I just feel like chopped, like she doesn't see reality sometimes. I feel like that's stuff like she believes she's going to be a saint and I'm already a saint. Okay. She really believes that God is telling her to do these things. (snickers) [00:09:06]

THERAPIST: Have you ever heard her talk like this before?

CLIENT: I guess, like when we were kids, but we just kind of ignored her and were like, "All right. Whatever, mom." We just thought she was like wicked religious and trying to push that on us and we just blocked it off. When you're a child you don't really understand things. I don't know. She's in a group. Some people have gifts (chuckles) and they're all talking about their different gifts and how God speaks to them. Okay. It's just I don't know. I guess I didn't really know how my mom was feeling. [00:10:05] I knew me and her used to argue all the time when I was a teenager. We didn't get along. We would fight all the time and it would be pretty volatile, but now I kind of understand why.

THERAPIST: What would you fight about?

CLIENT: Because I was always in a relationship, we would fight about what I wanted to do and education. We'd fight about moral stuff like going out, if I was going out, or just even cleaning up my room I don't know. We fought about every little thing. I would sit down with them and speak with them about my thoughts and it always turned into an argument. I really couldn't express myself to them. But she was like dramatic. Before I moved out I told her I was moving out and they were all upset about that. [00:11:05] She would always threaten me and pack my bags and be like, "Okay, move." Like she was hurt by it, so she would act in a kind of weird way. She would just react. (pause) [ ] (inaudible at 00:11:28)

THERAPIST: And so carrying this into now, is that making you sort of look back and reevaluate your past and your childhood?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't think about my childhood. I just don't really remember much of it, what it has to do with my parents. I just know I did my own thing. I was very independent. I think I blocked it out. (chuckles) I think she still is not accepting it. She didn't really want to.

THERAPIST: Are you worried for her?

CLIENT: I'm always worried for her. She never takes care of her health.

THERAPIST: In terms of weight or . . ?

CLIENT: Weight. Now she's lighter. With the diabetes if you don't eat right, you kind of waste away and lose weight in a not-healthy way. I tried to help her with her diet but she just doesn't eat the right things. [00:12:59] It's funny because she'll even say that I mother her more than she would be my mother. I would be protective over her my whole life. It was like a reversal. (chuckles) So I'm kind of [ ] (inaudible at 00:13:16) a lot.

THERAPIST: Have you spoken to your dad about it?

CLIENT: (sniffles) No. We don't really speak about stuff like that. Everything is like (sighs) we don't really have too much of a relationship.

THERAPIST: Does he know?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know how he feels about it. He was always just like, "Don't listen to your mother." (snickers) [00:14:08] Somehow he kind of feels spiritual, too. She kind of brought that out in him and some things he kind of believes what she says and some things he doesn't. My dad won't admit it, but he [ ] (inaudible at 00:14:30). I think he just accepts that because my mom is so good in other ways. She's like my dad's rock. Whenever he's upset my mother is there for him. I don't know if my brother is . . . That's not something you want to tell everybody about. [00:15:10] (pause) It's easier to think everything is fine until they really get in trouble because I don't think she'll ever fully accept that it's her disease. I think she really thinks it's a gift. She asked what I thought and I was like, "I don't know what to think right now."

THERAPIST: Does she seem manic to you at times? [00:16:00]

CLIENT: Yeah, kind of. She seems manic at times. I would be like, "Did you take her medication today?" She'd be frittering all over the place and not able to concentrate. When she takes it, she's calmer.

THERAPIST: At other times she's [Miss Bible]? (ph?)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Do you have a sense of why she told you this now?

CLIENT: Oh, because I'm going to therapy. I'm kind of reevaluating myself and my stress and my anxiety, so I'm kind of asking her more about what she's doing, so we talk about that.

THERAPIST: So you've had other conversations, not about this, but about therapy in particular? [00:17:04]

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. [ ] (inaudible at 00:17:06) I've always [ ]. I've never not told her anything. I'm very supportive, so she confides in me. I don't know what to think. (long pause) That's just one thing. (snickers)

THERAPIST: That's a big thing.

CLIENT: Yeah. (sniffles) [00:18:00]

THERAPIST: Do you feel sad?

CLIENT: I don't know. I just feel like (sniffles) it's kind of out of my hands. I don't know how to help her. (pause) If she's not doing anything destructive to herself and everything is in a positive way, isn't that better than being medicated?

THERAPIST: I'm not sure I understand. [00:18:59]

CLIENT: If she was medicated, health-wise those medications really take a toll on your body. She's not doing anything destructive to the extreme and it's not hurting her life. I don't know.

THERAPIST: You're wondering whether or not she should be on medication or a different kind of medication?

CLIENT: Yeah, because she's not totally out of it, you know? She's very stable, that I know of, other than ups and downs, I guess, emotionally. [00:20:00] But she doesn't react outside the house. She works, she makes good choices, she's very busy, so it's not like she's just sitting at home. My father encourages her to work (chuckles) so she stays busy.

THERAPIST: Because you've worried about money in particular?

CLIENT: I think I'm not sure. Now she says he wants her to help support the family because he does, but maybe he just wants her to stay busy and he knows how she is when she's not. When she's working she's so much happier. When she's home she's bored. (pause) [00:21:00] That's what I'm thinking about a lot lately.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you're trying to understand what it means. What does it mean like should she be on medication? What does that even mean? Why would she? What impact does it have on her life? Is it something that you should be concerned about or if she's okay with it, then what's the harm? It's what it means, it sounds like, for her and for you. Were you surprised?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. I was surprised that she said she's going to be a saint and that I'm going to be a saint and all this and that she hears voices. (chuckles) I was surprised about that. I kind of feel bad. [00:21:58] It doesn't bother her. I said to her, "So you've been hearing voices. (sniffles) Do you hear negative things?" She was like, "Oh, yeah. The devil gets inside of you, too." That's how she explains it. "You should just stop listening and just ignore those and pray." I was like, "Okay, well if God told you to do something like jump off a bridge, would you do that?" She was like, "I have reason." I'm not afraid of her doing anything like that. She would never hurt herself. So, yeah. That's, I guess, for her and her psychiatrist to figure out, but I think she's kind of in denial about the whole thing. She's thinking about it like "Was that whole thing was not something spiritual or was that my disease?" She's thinking about it. [00:23:04] I'm sure that's a struggle, like if you believe something your whole life and it's from a special . . . it's interesting.

THERAPIST: Is that how you feel, too? Believing something your whole life and feeling it's wrong in terms of how you see it?

CLIENT: I have seen my mom in so many different ways. Now it's making sense. I can't really talk to Steve about that because then he'd think my mother is crazy. He doesn't understand [ ] (inaudible at 00:23:47) at all. He doesn't get it. He's probably depressed himself but he just doesn't believe in it. It's like you're crazy or you're normal, so I don't really talk to him about that. [00:24:05] He does not believe in therapy. You could tell. Every time he came in here he was like . . . (snickers)

THERAPIST: He talked.

CLIENT: Yeah, he did.

THERAPIST: I have people where one partner just leaves. They're like, "I don't believe in this," and they're out of there the first session. I'm not questioning that. I understand what you're saying, but there is some percentage that he's willing to show up.

CLIENT: Yeah, but getting him there was stressful and not worth the stress. He's so much happier now.

THERAPIST: I always felt like he had a lot to say.

CLIENT: Yeah. He always does. (chuckles) He never did when we first started going out. He never did. That was the issue. I'm such a strong personality and I like to get my way and I don't like to be told "no" from him and in any relationship he never spoke up and then he started speaking up and then we started battling, which I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't want somebody very passive. I want somebody to have their own mind, but that's why we argue. We just had an argument before we got here because I texted him, "I'm here really early. It's really hot outside. I want to go to the pool when I get out." He texted me, "Are you asking me or are you telling me?" which I took like, "I'm not telling you that you have to go to the pool." So I called him and he was like, "No, I thought you were saying that you want to go to the pool." We just don't communicate. It's how everything starts. It's funny. We kind of just laugh about it now instead of getting upset about it. We're working on it. (chuckles) [00:26:00] But it's easy to twist a sentence, especially if you know the person and you know how they behave. It's easy to jump to conclusions. That makes sense. I guess I'm worried because I don't want that for myself. If she is bi-polar, does that mean that can happen to me? Isn't that hereditary?

THERAPIST: It's certainly not that if your mom has bi-polar disorder, you will have bi-polar disorder. You would probably know by now. Symptoms manifest usually before your age.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't every feel manic. [00:27:00]

THERAPIST: There are other ways in which you worry about yourself. Maybe that's what you're really doing.

CLIENT: Yeah. Another thing I'm dealing with is what I told you about the phone bothering me. He got a new phone and he likes to show me stuff about his phone. I just want to go through his phone and see if he's hiding stuff. The phone gives me so much insight. (sniffles) I'm trying to deal with that, not that I think he's hiding things from me, (sniffles) but you know how if you look for something you're going to always find something negative if you're looking for something negative? That's what I don't want to do. That's like our arguments, I'll look at his phone and I'll be like, "What does this have to do with that person?" and I'll jump to conclusions. [00:28:09] I don't want that any more. I want to be able to control that. (sniffles) I don't even look at his phone anymore because it causes me that much anxiety. (snickers) Isn't that silly?

THERAPIST: Well it sounds painful. It doesn't sound silly.

CLIENT: It has nothing to do with him either. (sniffles) I know he's done hiding things from me.

THERAPIST: A lot of it is that you're not trusting people, which has a long and complicated history.

CLIENT: Yeah. (sniffles) [00:29:00] I was proud of myself at work because I stuck up for myself. I get so busy. We have an assistant manager that likes to push and push and push and causes so much more [ ] (inaudible at 00:29:16). It causes so much more work for us that's not necessary. Most of my patients were the heaviest patients and she was going to give me another patient. Normally I don't say this and then I get behind and I'm not able to leave on time. I was like, "No, I can't take a patient right now." (sniffles) They just kind of looked at me. I was like, "I'm sorry." Like you know I'm a good worker and if I say I can't, then it's my license that I can't. I was happy I stood up for myself. [00:30:01] I think maybe next time she'll think twice. That's my personality. I'm a people pleaser. I'll just do anything and I don't think about myself.

THERAPIST: And then you get resentful and angry and then that anger really tears you up inside.

CLIENT: Yeah, it does. It's starting in here. (crying) At work. I leave two hours every day and I don't get here. (sniffles) I'm sick of it. They're just like oh, that's just education. No it's not. I see everybody else leaving early and they've asked me to help them and then they leave early. That's crap. I'm trying to stick up for myself more. [00:31:11] I'm more direct in stating the help they need and the stress for me. Hopefully it stays that way. (chuckles) I can't stay two hours extra and not get paid. I used to think it was just my civic duty, me giving back, but it's affecting my life here. So that's what I'm really focused on right now, is doing more for myself. I have a lot. (chuckles) [00:32:04]

THERAPIST: Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like your mom not taking care of herself is sort of her demise, why she's doing poorly, because she doesn't. It sounds like you're worried that that can happen to you, not taking care of yourself, even physically.

CLIENT: Yes. I didn't see it that way. (sniffles) Yes, she does a lot for other people, but she doesn't take care of herself. She has time to take care of herself; where me, it's more like I put others first and then me last. Then I just don't have enough time. It's like I want to take care of myself. I just don't. (sniffles) [00:33:02] I only have one life.

THERAPIST: It's an admirable life.

CLIENT: (sniffles) I don't know. I want to have some (crying) enjoyment. I always feel obligated to do for others. (sniffling) I think there's got to be a better (crying) [ ] (inaudible at 00:33:38). I have a few holes. (snickers) [00:34:02] I would love to be like Steve and just be so carefree and just go biking and not worry about the to-do list. But I'm more like, "I have to get this done, and this done, and this done," on my day off before I can just relax. I generally have a couple of days off, but he goes out there. He doesn't do his laundry; he doesn't do anything and he'll go out and bike. That's what keeps him going because all he does is work, so he needs that time for himself and, to some extent, that's great. That's what I want to do for myself. I want to feel like that. I don't want to feel burdened. [00:35:04] (sniffles) He is just so carefree. That's a good thing, I guess. It can be annoying. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Do you feel that your father feels burdened?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I think it's his choice to feel that. I don't know. She was trying to explain their relationship, which is kind of hurtful. I don't want to hear it. She told me that she knew she was going to marry my father before she even met him and that he was kind of forced into marrying her. He never wanted to get married. [00:36:00] He never wanted to have children.

THERAPIST: How was he forced?

CLIENT: That's what I said. "He's not going to do anything that he wants to do. I think that's your insecurities." He took awhile to ask her to marry him and he was kind of like poor. My mother was going to leave and go off with some other guy and my grandparents said, "She's going to leave. You either marry her or you lose her," so he proposed. I guess he didn't even propose to her. They were seeing a priest about getting married before he even proposed to her. (crying) I'm like, "That's stuff you don't want to tell your kids."

THERAPIST: Do you know why she told you?

CLIENT: I don't know. (sniffles) She kind of makes a joke about it, so I can't tell if she really believes he didn't care for her. [00:37:06] I don't see that. I don't see that. Why would somebody get married if they don't want to get married and stay with somebody and be faithful? That makes no sense to me.

THERAPIST: How did you feel hearing all this?

CLIENT: I heard it my whole life.

THERAPIST: You heard it your whole life that he didn't want to marry her?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: She used to tell you that?

CLIENT: Yeah. We just kind of went like, "Okay, mom."

THERAPIST: Like in a welcome home after you come home from school. "By the way, your dad didn't want to marry me." When would she bring it up?

CLIENT: She always brings up her past. She always brings up that whole story and when it comes to relationships, I'll call her if I'm upset with Steve and she'll be like, "Oh, well me and your dad broke up for a while because he told me to move out and after a month he came back, so maybe you guys just need space from this." [00:38:17] And then she'll tell me how they got married. I thought it was just funny. It was always in a funny situation that they'd talk about how they got married, so I didn't really think she felt that way.

THERAPIST: Do you think she doubts that your dad loves her?

CLIENT: I'm sure that she's insecure and she feels like that's her insecurities. I don't doubt that my dad doesn't love her. I know my dad loves her. I don't think (snickers) (sniffles) I don't know. He's kind of arrogant and all about himself, but he definitely loves her., but he definitely loves her. [00:38:59] Why would somebody say with somebody for that long? They enjoy each other's company. That's all they do is hang out with each other. (sniffles) If it's just a companion thing . . . but it's something you don't tell your kids.

THERAPIST: It's too much information.

CLIENT: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she kind of brought that up the last time we talked and I just told her she was silly to think that way or to feel that. (pause) I don't know. (sniffles)

THERAPIST: Do you think thinking that way for her upsets her? Do you get a sense it's coming from a place of pain?

CLIENT: I'm sure it does. It's usually brought up when they fight. (sniffles) [00:40:12] I don't know. I never talk to my mom about her being unhappy because she always seems so happy and she just is a positive person. If she makes lemonade what is that saying?

THERAPIST: She makes lemonade out of lemons.

CLIENT: Yeah, she's just very positive. If there's a tragedy, if there's something going on, she's just like, "What are you going to do? We'll just move on." She's a very positive person and I think that part of that is she believes it's God's will. She has faith and that's it, which is a positive way of thinking of things. [00:41:06] I'm not worried about my mom being unhappy. I know she's happy. Her mother (sniffles) was very sick and she had diabetes. She lived in her chair from like 60-years-old until 80. She wouldn't get out of her chair. I don't want that for my mother. I know my mother is not her mother, but I don't want her to get sick like that.

THERAPIST: Well I realize that we need to stop, but this is an awful lot to have to think about and process. [00:42:02]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It would be great I know you've had difficulty defining a good traffic time, but it would be great if we could find a regular time to meet, especially since my hours are starting to get tighter and tighter.

CLIENT: Yeah. Is this time available?

THERAPIST: I think I could do this time, actually. Let me double check. I don't see why I couldn't.

CLIENT: Because actually it wasn't bad driving here. I got here very quickly.

THERAPIST: That's great. I'm pretty sure this time is available. Yeah, let's do this. I'm not here the week of the 5th, which is in two weeks, and then I'm back the following week.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Okay. Next week, and then two weeks after that. Okay, take care Marlene (ph?).

CLIENT: Okay. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Bye-bye.

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