TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

(No activity 00:00:00: to 00:01:48)

THERAPIST: Hi, hi! Come on in!

CLIENT: How are you?

THERAPIST: Good, thank you! (pause) What's new? [00:02:00]

CLIENT: (chuckles) Not much!

THERAPIST: (chuckles) Are we, should we talk about me today?

CLIENT: Sure!

THERAPIST: (chuckles) Would that be better? (client affirms) What did you do this week?

CLIENT: Um... I think we left off, I was going to the wedding with (ph) Steve. That went good. Went to the wedding in Providence, it was an Polish wedding. It was pretty interesting. Then we went to... it was a, the reception was at the Hyatt, so it was a beautiful wedding. Good time. We couldn't dance (chuckles), because... it was interesting. Every song was like three hours long, (inaudible) the music. (chuckles) But... yeah. [00:02:55]

Then he was off for a whole week. He had a vacation, so... I didn't! (chuckles) But we, you know, I let him do his own thing. He actually helped me with the house and did a lot of things that I wanted to get done, he did for me, so... I mean, we had a couple of fights, but we got over it, worked through them. I found it was like, easier for me to like, write down what I was like trying to say to him, so he could read it. That helped a lot. I mean, I have a better time communicating with him when I can write it (chuckles), then getting all like, emotional. [00:03:40]

Then I started school, so it's just, you know, that's been interesting. (chuckles) I have school today, so I wrote... it's a class I already took... but my teacher seems, she's younger and she wants to teach, so... So she's enthusiastic, unlike the other teachers I've had in the past. You know, just give you a PowerPoint and want you to learn it all on your own.

I haven't made an appointment yet with the psychiatrist, but I'm planning on it. I've just... Every time I'm like, either in the car and I like, want to call her; or then I'm like, at work, and then it's so busy at work. It's like, I don't get, you know, to eat lunch or anything, so it's... I'm always like, "Okay, I'll call her on when I take a break," you know? (therapist responds) And I never get a break and then I'm driving home (chuckles) so... [00:04:39]

I feel like, you know, I call, but they like, don't pick up. They wait for the, you know, the voice mail and then I think... I'm hoping that I if tell her my e-mail, I'll be able to communicate with her better by e-mail; it will be easier for me. So... That was my two weeks! (therapist responds) (chuckles) Pretty positive week. Got a lot done, busy, worked a couple... I worked at my other job, too, per diem, so I probably did 70 hours this week. I feel like, when I'm like, going, I'm good.

THERAPIST: Um-hm, you said that before.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm very happy when I'm busy. (chuckles) [00:05:30]

THERAPIST: Is it, it's those times where you have more time, with your own, with yourself and with your mind, that seem more difficult.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I like over-think things. That's my problem. Which I never did until I went into (chuckles) education, I feel like. I had a good experience with one of my students. He was, I already had a student who was going through detox and usually they're pretty nasty, but this guy, you could tell like, was having a hard time. He like, wanted help. Like, I don't know, I felt like I made a difference. (therapist responds) Hopefully, he will like continue to do that, the help that he needs. I kind of felt for him, because I feel like... I don't know.

I understand what he's going through. And instead of like drinking, I have my other ways of coping with things, so I understand about this (ph). I feel like he's getting the help he needs, hopefully. If not, I'll see him again! (chuckles) [00:06:40]

THERAPIST: You felt hopeful for him?

CLIENT: I did. I did. He just... I feel like I just like really, I dedicated a lot of my attention to him, so he... He was on our floor instead of like, he could have gone bad either way. They were thinking about transferring him to like ICU unit and I was just like with him, making sure that didn't happen. Because when they detox, they can, their blood pressures get really high and then they can have seizures and he's known to have those, so... Yeah, it was good. (therapist responds) Usually, I'm not able to have that much time with somebody. (pause) It's been good, it's been good. Maybe I am more hopeful.

THERAPIST: What do you think changed? [00:07:36]

CLIENT: Nothing. I just think I had a good week! (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Well, I think that's, it's helpful to think about, because it seems like when things are good, the bad stuff really recedes; and when things are bad, the good stuff really recedes. It's sort of like, almost like you're kind of like sort of so dependent on your mood or the moment. Like, there is not enough to fall back on, or not (client affirms), yeah, to fall back on in terms of "Yeah, well this is a really crappy day or even a crappy week, but you know, next week will be okay."

CLIENT: Right. Yeah, I kind of just like, I think it's the worst, half the time. I'm real--, I think I'm realizing that. (chuckles) I think with just repetitiveness it will come to me. But I do react outwardly (ph). "Oh, my God! This is the worst!" Like, me and Steve, we had a fight. We were both like really, really frustrated with each other. But it was like... it was a fight about a fight, pretty much. Like, he went to work upset and like, his manager like, I guess he wanted to work and he was like really like angry and like, she could tell something was wrong and like, he, she pulled him aside and said something. [00:08:59]

But they were like, I found out they were texting each other, so that really like upset me. Like, I thought I wasn't able to react yet and he thought I was going to react bad. He started getting upset with me, and it kind of like made that fight go beyond what it had to be. It could have been just like, "Whatever," you know? But he thought I was going to react in a certain way and I didn't (chuckles). But he was the one who got upset, so...

But we were able to like, we had like a horrible fight for like ten minutes, and it was so dramatic, and then like, I was just like, you know, "This is not worth it. You think that I'm not going to get over this. Like, it's not a big deal to me. Like, just let me, like behave that way. Like if you don't give me a chance, we're just going to have this ugly cycle," so... [00:09:57]

We ended up, it was like, I don't know, 10:00 when we ended up. Before that, we were going to go grocery shopping and, but it was like 15 minutes. We were like, all right, "This is stupid." And we went grocery shopping. (chuckles) And we were able to like, get past that. He was like, "Oh, you're just going to make a big deal about this. You'll never get over this." I'm like, "No." It just... I always get over it. It's just like, feels like, "Oh, my God! You like betrayed me for like ten seconds," and then, I get over it.

But, anyway, it was like, he like didn't give me a chance to like react in a normal way, you know? (therapist responds) So... We are working together (chuckles). I talk to him about that, but he was... no. (chuckles) He complained (ph), thinks that we should be able to resolve our problems on our own. So that's his mindset. I think... I guess we can. I think we can, it's just going to take a lot longer. [00:11:06]

So, he's been much more affectionate, like when I was leaving today. I slept in, because I worked late and he went out fishing all morning. (chuckles) He took the trash out, today is trash day. Didn't even have to ask him. Then when he came back, he was like, "Where are you going?" And I'm like, "Well, I have therapy." He was like, "Oh, I don't want you to go." And I'm like, "Oh, well, that's nice. See ya!" But like, he's never said that, you know? (therapist responds). He gave me a hug, he's being more affectionate.

THERAPIST: Do those feel nice?

CLIENT: Yeah, it does. I'm sure it feels nice to him, too. I need to be able to express to him that way, because he says like, I don't come like off where I want him to hug me. But usually like, if I'm like getting ready for work or I just got like home from work, like I've had only like ten minutes to myself; and then I'm like approachable. (chuckles) So he wants me to be like, you know, when we were younger, like always chipper, and like happy, and like... well that's not the case, we love with each other (ph). He's got to see like everything, you know? So I think like, he had this idea of that (chuckles) when we we're in (inaudible) with each other and it's going to be like it is, when we see each other about an hour. It's just, we're growing. (pause) It's like a week or two weeks... I had (inaudible). (chuckles) I don't know. I... feels like. [00:13:03]

THERAPIST: When you're feeling good, it's hard to know (client affirms) what to talk about.

CLIENT: Yeah. Got a lot accomplished. Definitely going to have a busy end of the week. I have school and I'm working nights. (therapist responds) (chuckles) I think, yeah, but like, I'm the happiest when I'm busy. I mean, it's like time to myself... I have a feeling I'm like getting back, going to the gym and everything and really picking up, if I have time, like some sort of like maybe yoga class or a painting class... [00:13:53]

And... I feel like I'm trying to be like more, you know, friendly. Like, at work, if we have mean (ph) people or what not. I'm always quiet and I come off like I'm like, stuck up or something, like not approachable, because I just... I don't know. I guess I'm just shy, like... and people take it the wrong way. Now I'm just like, making more of an effort to like, you know, relate to people. (therapist responds) (pause) So that's good! (chuckles) (therapist responds)

And I was having like my manager, she like, she texted me and said that like, she appreciates all my work and she underst--, she like is switching around my schedule and she said, "I wouldn't do this for anybody else but you, because you're so flexible." I'm like, "That's good!" Like, I feel like I just... um... think so negatively and like... about myself, that I'm like not able to accept people's praises, so I'm trying to do that better. There are no reasons why I can't just accept a compliment. So... Feels good! (chuckles) [00:15:14]

So I'm just, you know, building up confidence. I'd say I was more of a confident person, I don't know, like before Steve and I got together, I was more confident. I like, got out of a bad relationship and I spent like... I'd say a year doing stuff for myself and... so I think like, all the fighting and everything that happened with us just destroyed my confidence. But, I can't blame that all on him. (chuckles)

There is just, I've had, if I think like, for the past five or six years, it's just been one thing after another, like school and then education school. You have to drop like your whole life, your friends, you can't, you know. I'm sure you know like, you can't go out or like have a job, everything is to your studies, so you definitely lose a lot of that, of yourself, just like going to school and studying. [00:16:28]

So, after like, when I in, because I was, very stressful for me and like in between that, you know, me, Steve lost his father and I lost my grandmother, I just kind of like went and didn't deal with things. I just kept going. (therapist responds) You know, I'm trying to get back to where I was. (therapist responds) What do you think about that? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: The part about getting back to where you were? (client affirms) In terms of what?

CLIENT: Like, who I was, the stronger person.

THERAPIST: What do I think about your being able to do it or whether it's a good thing or...?

CLIENT: Yeah, just I don't know. (chuckles) That's my plan. (pause) I don't know what else to say. [00:17:40]

THERAPIST: Are you looking for more feedback from me today, is that...?

CLIENT: I think so. (chuckles) Is that okay?

THERAPIST: Of course it's okay! So, what, yeah, what kind of feedback? What would be helpful?

CLIENT: Oh... (pause) I don't know. Like what would be... I don't know, therapeutic for me to stress management, for stress management? Do you know any skills that would be good?

THERAPIST: I'm not sure that's, referring to what? I'm not...

CLIENT: I think like, my whole issue is that I like, have... I'm lacking coping skills. So... Is there certain things that like, I could do, if I'm in a time where I'm very stressed out? [00:18:38]

THERAPIST: Hmm. So you're anticipating a time where you would feel stressed out and feeling like you wouldn't have the resources to deal with it? (client affirms) Well, what do you feel is lacking in those moments?

CLIENT: I don't know. Just... be... like, I don't know. I feel like I'm not able to like, stop and think and like... think about like, how serious something is, like a judgment. And I think it's just the worst. And I think just being able to stop and like, think about a situation is my problem. I just react. (pause) So... More like dealing with it, like anxiety in general. [00:19:38]

THERAPIST: Well, I guess one way of then, sort of thinking about the problem is, what happens to these other parts of you that have more perspective? Why aren't they there, where did they go? (client affirms) Because it's not that they're never there; they're just sometimes not there.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like I don't understand that about myself. (therapist affirms) Because most of the time, they're there. (chuckles) Just when I'm like... I don't know. I would say like, worn down. My mother, like always thought like I needed a good night's sleep, like the right diet, exercise, and I was fine. If I was like, lacking in any of that, then I was more like irritable, you know, or stressed. So... That's kind of hard to deal with all the time. [00:20:35]

THERAPIST: I also don't think that's the problem. (client agrees) Because those are very external things, and what you describe that distresses you is not anything external, it's something that you feel inside. Those things can help, but I don't think that's what's causing you to feel upset, when you're upset.

CLIENT: What do you think it is?

THERAPIST: Um, you know, we've talked about it before. What do you, do you feel like, where do those conversations go?

CLIENT: Which ones?

THERAPIST: Well, where we talk about what's inside, that feels like it's not right, and the anxiety and the, you know, the feelings of emptiness, the feelings of being, you know, wandering about, or just not feeling, you know, sort of too much time. (client affirms) So, yeah.

CLIENT: But what would cause that? Like, why does that happen to me? [00:21:36]

THERAPIST: I don't know!

CLIENT: (whispers) Me neither. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I'm sorry?

CLIENT: I said, "Me neither." (sniffles) (pause) I feel like I just get stuck in my thoughts, like random (ph) thoughts, and I waste a lot of time like, with that, you know? Where I could be doing something productive. It's just like all about like, getting going, you know? Getting past that.

THERAPIST: I certainly think that your upbringing has something to do with it. (client affirms) I could come up with all sorts of ideas as to how, but... yeah. Maybe the important question is how you feel your experience growing up has, you know, contributed to some of the stress that you're feeling now. [00:22:36]

CLIENT: Yeah. I believe that. How do you get beyond it? You know?

THERAPIST: Well, the question is, what is it? You know? (chuckles)

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. (pause) Well, I mean... I dealt with like, my mother is very insecure. I've dealt with that. My father is... a very negative person, I would say, but he's happily, he's happy that way, for some reason. (chuckles) He's, if you met my father like, on the outside like, everybody loves my dad. Like, he's just a charismatic like, healthful person. (therapist responds) He's a guy's guy, yeah, and I just, he's lacking like, that emotional side to him. Which is odd, but... [00:23:41]

His mother was like that, too. It was always like, she was always like, "Oh, don't worry about that." Like, if you ever wanted to have a talk with her, that was not going to happen! (chuckles) But he like, opens up to my mother; I know that; but not to us, me and my brother. So I kind of, the communication, it's weird there. If I want to like, communicate with my dad, I have to go through my mom. It's weird.

THERAPIST: How do you go through her?

CLIENT: I talk to her.

THERAPIST: And then she'll talk to him?

CLIENT: Uh-hmm. Just like a telephone. Which is, I'm sure she can like, take what I'm saying, if she doesn't, you know, if she doesn't agree, you know. She can put like, ideas in his head or whatever or her judgment, but we've never sat down and like had a conversation, because it always like, ended up in a fight. He's very narrow-minded. [00:24:54]

It's more like, like the school. I'm like, I said to him, I'm like, "Can you help me just pay for this month?" And he said, "No, I'm done! Like, I'm done with school." But I said to him, "Can you help me pay for my rent?" And he like, thought about it, like, "Oh, okay." And I'm like, "It's the same thing," you know what I mean? And my mother's like, "No, you'll just use that money for school!" Like it took him a while, that... but... (pause) Like, I, like I understand how I was brought up. I just, I don't get how it didn't really like, affect my brother as much.

THERAPIST: How do you mean?

CLIENT: I don't know. He's so happy. (therapist responds) Better of (ph). He's more like my mom, I think. And I'm more like my father. (pause) I don't know. I don't really talk to him. I think that's what it is. And whenever we talk about our parents, it's like the same thing, like, "Well! They're just our parents! We survived!" (chuckles) You know? (pause) But how do you like, pass that, like... the bad habits you picked up from your parents, how do you pass that, so it doesn't ruin your life? [00:26:31]

THERAPIST: Being aware of them is a really good first start, for sure, and aware of the connection to where they came from. (client affirms) Do you feel like you took on some of your dad's unhappiness?

CLIENT: I don't know. I've never like, really connected to that. Like, I've never thought about it. (pause) Maybe. It's funny, because he's got... I have an issue with weight, he has an issue with weight, we're like obsessive about our weight. He says like, the same thing like I do. Like, if I'm going to the doctors, I'll like diet to get to like a normal weight so they won't say, "Oh, you're a little overweight." And he's talking about, "Oh, I have to go to the doctor. He's going to say something about my weight, because I gained some weight." (chuckles) [00:27:37]

And I'm like, "Well, Dad, they take your weight to see if you're like, if you've gained weight for other things, you know? Like, if you're retaining fluid or not." But like, he's so obsessive about his weight. I definitely picked that up from him. Like, he used to ride his bike when he was a little closer like, to work, back and forth in the snow (chuckles), in a hurricane, or whatever, just so he could like maintain his weight. And he'll like, for hours, he'll go on the treadmill or he'll rollerblade or whatever.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like he over-exercises? (client affirms) Is he thin?

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I mean, he's not heavy, you know?

THERAPIST: But he's obsessive. [00:28:34]

CLIENT: Very obsessive, I mean, yeah, I picked that up from him. (chuckles) (therapist responds) (pause) But he was heavy as a kid, too. So I think that's like... still like in his head.

THERAPIST: Is he negative? (client affirms) About everything?

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah. He definitely reacts the same way, like I do. (sniffles) And it's funny, because I used to hate that about him. Like, if you'd ask him something, it was always, "No!" But he would have to think about it, then he was like, "Oh. That doesn't seem so bad." And I kind of do the same thing. I'll be like, "What do you want!" (chuckles) Like, if somebody's like, "Can you do me a favor?" I'm like, "Oh. What is it?" (chuckles) Like, I think, like, the worst. [00:29:35]

THERAPIST: Like, maybe they're trying to take advantage of you?

CLIENT: No, it's just like... like thinking the worst out of a situation. Like... I don't know. It's the same like school and college. (sniffles) He didn't, he really did not know much about it, so he wanted to keep me like closer, and like he feared anything he didn't know. Like, and if you tried to teach him about it, he wouldn't listen to you. So it's like... I don't know... a lack of knowledge, I would say with him. I don't know. He seems like... I don't know. Like, with school, it made me think, if I continue, I'm just going to fail again. (pause) I don't believe that. (chuckles) [00:30:38]

THERAPIST: But he didn't have the confidence in you.

CLIENT: Right. (pause) Which makes me want to do it even more! (chuckles) I don't know. Or... I'll bet you like, deep down inside he does, but he just doesn't want to take that like chance. That would be... He should (inaudible).

THERAPIST: But you want his support. It will be nice if you could have his support.

CLIENT: Right. I don't need it. (pause) And like, at first, it bothered me, but I'm like, so my father like, he supports me in other ways. He's proud of me, he'll never say he's proud of me, but I know he is. He'll just, he just can't communicate that part. So... and that's fine. [00:31:43]

It's funny, because he got a new job or what not. It's such an easier job, and he makes the same amount of money. The manager is like, so proactive and like gets involved. And because it's too like easy for him, he doesn't like it. Like there is nobody riding his butt, tell him like, he could do better. This guy actually was telling him that he does a great job; he doesn't like it. It's like, "Oh." I'm like, "Well, as you get older, you need something, you know, a little less stressful." But because he's like, not active as much. You know, like... It's weird. (pause) Oh yeah, I picked up a lot (chuckles) from my parents. [00:32:52]

THERAPIST: Does he seem like someone who's, always wants to be in a different circumstance and thinks he'll be happier then, in different circumstances?

CLIENT: No. I would say that's me. He's someone that likes, he doesn't like change. I like found that out about myself like (sigh) oh, if I'm unhappy somewhere, I like, I'll get another job. Or maybe this relationship's not working out, so I'll try something new. I'll need a new area (chuckles), I'd make like, impulsive decisions like that. I'm like," It's not any of that," you know? I figured that out. (pause) But he, I think that's what it is. He worked for this company for like 32, 33 years. Then he had to like... He like, dedicated himself and they kind of just used him. So like, him leaving that company, like he still has nightmares about it. It's like a kind of like a death for him. [00:33:56]

THERAPIST: A death?

CLIENT: Like a death, yeah, of his life. It's like a new life for him. And he's not looking at it like, positively. So... but... He dealt with that like, I talked to my mom, with post-traumatic stress, like having nightmares, feeling bad about himself, like... instead of looking at like, you know, the positive. (pause) We're similar, but I think I have like more of my mother's like, good traits. (chuckles) I feel kind of at odds. I feel one way about things and another way. Like, I can look (sniffles) at a situation in both lights and that kind of like confuses me, you know? I don't know. I can side with both sides. [00:35:00]

THERAPIST: (pause) How is that confusing?

CLIENT: (pause) I don't know. I feel like I can't make a decision, if I see like a point, like this, you know, different points of view or like, I understand both sides. I feel like I can't figure out (sniffles) which one is like the right decision to make, you know? I think that's where I have problems, it's like I second-guess myself where I never, never used to do that.

(pause) And like, I would say with my mother, well, she's insecure, I picked up like that. Like she has trust issues with people. So I picked that quality up with her. Even with like my dad, she'd be like, she just has like jealousy with my father, because my father would like to flirt in front of her and she... wouldn't like that, but he just did it for like a rise out of her. But she... knows she can trust my father, but she fully can't trust anybody. [00:36:26]

THERAPIST: How does that like manifest...?

CLIENT: I don't know, she (inaudible) my relationship, like I fully like, I believe I could trust her (inaudible) but like, if something happened, I would probably think the worst, you know? There is a, that's what I'm like trying to learn from and trying to fix in my relationship.

THERAPIST: Well, you've talked before with your mom, her feeling that your dad didn't really want her and didn't really want (client confirms) to marry her, feeling that she wasn't ultimately wanted. (client affirms) It's a very painful way to feel about marriage. Do you think she feels, still feels that way?

CLIENT: I don't know. I think like... that's a side of her, she'll always feel, but I think she's happy now. Like, he's not going anywhere, I don't think. And she knows my father needs her. My father loves my mother, I don't see that at all. He's a very loyal person. So the way she feels, I, it just, it doesn't make sense to me, in their situation. (pause) Maybe that's just the way she's always felt. I think she was one of eight in her family. Her sisters are kind of catty and like, she's kind of like... always had like, problems with her siblings where she didn't really relate to them and they've always teased her. [00:38:13]

THERAPIST: For what?

CLIENT: Oh, everything. Like, my mother, she has tremors, like her head shakes (and my grandfather has that, too), but they'll make fun of that. At like, family parties...

THERAPIST: Still?

CLIENT: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: That's so child-like!

CLIENT: I know. Her family is child-like. They're very competitive and nasty. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: It's like something that kids would do in the schoolyard.

CLIENT: Yeah. They're still like that.

THERAPIST: You think that impacts her? (client affirms) I think that's part of what contributes to her low self-esteem?

CLIENT: Yeah, absolutely. That's how she was, you know, treated in her family. And they still do it. Like, if they have a party... So I'm like, that's where like our family... I overstep the whole thing. We're being child--, I'll like stick up for my mother (chuckles). And I feel like I have to fight her battles. Oh, yeah, they're nasty, but I guess they're nasty to each other. [00:39:27]

THERAPIST: (pause) (chuckles) Well, it's hard if you feel you can't trust your family, people who tend to generalize that and think, "Well, if I can't trust my family, I can't trust anybody." Not appreciating that a lot of people are much nicer, or can be much nicer than your family members. (chuckles) (client affirms) Actually there might be more trust, maybe there should be more trust in other people.

CLIENT: Yeah. I understand.

THERAPIST: But it's hard to feel that, you know, if your flesh and blood, you can't really trust them, maybe you can't trust anybody.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) You know, it's just like I say to Steve, "It must feel nice to like, trust me fully." Like I would like that. And like he, I told him like, I have some, like I just have like something with the phone. (sniffles) And like he had the phone in front of him last night and I'm like, just (inaudible) phone (chuckles). But I used to do that like, my best friend Heather, growing up. Like, she'd always be on the phone and I'd be like, "Oh. Who are you talking with? What are you doing?" Like I'd even do it when we'd go to parties. I'm like, "Oh. Who are you talking to?" (chuckles) I'm like, I don't' know what it's about. It's like, okay. (chuckles) [00:41:00]

THERAPIST: Marlene (sp), we're going to need to stop for today, okay? (client affirms) We'll see you next week? (client affirms) Okay, great!

CLIENT: All right. I need to give you that check.

THERAPIST: Okay, thanks.

CLIENT: (pause) (sniffles) I saw you on the 10th (ph). (sniffles) (pause) Do you have a lot of clients out there this...?

THERAPIST: Um, I have people in the afternoon, yeah.

CLIENT: (pause) (sniffles) There you go!

THERAPIST: Thank you very much.

CLIENT: Thank you! Have a nice day!

THERAPIST: Thank you, and I will see you next week! (client affirms) Okay, take care. Bye bye!

CLIENT: Bye!

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