TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.

CLIENT 1: Hi. Sorry about that.

THERAPIST: I'm sorry you had so much difficulty. God.

CLIENT 2: Hello.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT 1: Road rage.

THERAPIST: A little odd [for the police officers] (ph).

CLIENT 1: I know.

CLIENT 2: Yeah.

CLIENT 1: It's like he did it on purpose. That's...

THERAPIST: Oh, did he...? It wasn't...?

CLIENT 1: Yeah. He was yelling at him because he wouldn't move up, and then he rear-ended him, so...

CLIENT 2: Yeah. We had cars in front of us, and I was moving forward. I was... because everybody was stopped, I was slowly moving up to the car in front of me. And the guy's just leaning on the horn, he beeps three times. And I pull forward, and then I stop like anybody else would moving forward, and the guy just cracked (ph) right back into the back of the car. [0:01:00] I don't know. Anyway... (Pause) Just another day. Thankfully that police officer was nice. The guy jumped out, and he was like, what are doing?

CLIENT 1: (Chuckling)

CLIENT 2: I'm like, are you kidding me? You hit a parked car?

CLIENT 1: And he was like, there's no damage is there? There's no damage, huh? And I'm like, well, I don't know if there's damage or not (chuckling). People are crazy.

THERAPIST: I (ph)...

CLIENT 1: So I have the paperwork.

THERAPIST: Okay, great. (Pause)

CLIENT 1: Do you want to take...? We left off at pretty much, we had a horrible fight in session. And...

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT 1: We want to learn how to deal with our frustrations better than taking it out on each other. But we're not sure how to do that. [0:02:02]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. Is that what you guys talked about after you left?

CLIENT 1: I don't think we really talked. (Chuckling) You did your thing. He like... I was upset, so he comforted me. And then I was upset the next day, but we just kind of went on from there. And the rest of the week's been fine. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Is that...? When did that shift? Because you guys were fight... when did it shift to you comforting Marlene?

CLIENT 1: That day (chuckling).

CLIENT 2: I don't know, yeah, later on in the day.

THERAPIST: What changed in you from being upset to going to comfort her?

CLIENT 2: To be honest with you, I don't even remember any more. I don't even really remember much (chuckling). It's been such a crazy week. [0:02:56]

CLIENT 1: I think I just told him, I need to be comforted. And (inaudible at 0:03:03) we need to stop arguing. And then I told him that we need to put more effort into this. It's been... it was a very busy week for us, and we didn't spend any time together. And then he talked... it upset me that he said he wanted even less time with me. And then he spent... like, this week... we have time together this week. We needed that time (inaudible at 0:03:37).

THERAPIST: And that made a big difference?

CLIENT 1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

THERAPIST: What...? [Something else] (ph)... what do you think...? Oh, are you done with this?

CLIENT 2: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That's your... I'll take the forms, and this is yours. Thank you.

CLIENT 2: Oh, okay. I didn't know whose was what.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, do you feel, Steve, you're making more of an effort to spend time with Marlene? [0:03:59]

CLIENT 2: Well, it's not all of a sudden like a light went on. I mean, I'm consciously trying to be there for her. We're in a relationship, you know?

THERAPIST: Well, do you feel...? Because it sounds like, Marlene, you felt there was a difference between this past week and the week before. Do you feel there was as big a difference, or do you feel that... in terms of how much time you spent together?

CLIENT 2: It's so difficult because it's like, every day is different it seems. It really just depends on the day (chuckling). It's... we go day by day. At least, that's how I feel. I mean, things can change in a heartbeat. So, I mean, I still feel the same way. I still... I'm still going to approach everything the same way when we're together. [0:04:59] And...

THERAPIST: I guess what I'm trying to understand is, it's... from Marlene's vantage point it seemed like you made a different kind of effort. So I was wondering whether it just felt like it was just a change in the week or you felt that it was something different on your part.

CLIENT 2: (Chuckling) Just did my thing. I just opened up, I guess.

CLIENT 1: Yeah, he... I've noticed a lot of changes. Even yesterday, you sat down, and you talked about people at work and friends, and you never do that with me. I was like, oh, well, that's interesting. It was nice.

CLIENT 2: Yeah, well, I felt like I could talk to you, just talk to you, talk to you, you know what I mean?

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

CLIENT 2: I never get that feeling, but I just felt like I could just... you know, whatever. [0:05:57]

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You felt you could talk to her versus what? What is not feeling like you can talk to her?

CLIENT 2: Well, as opposed to me not watching what I say and how I say it and... (Pause) As it is opposed to that (chuckling).

CLIENT 1: Yeah, and I feel like because I've done that to him, he feels that way. It's like I can't redeem myself even if I try my hardest. He still has... I don't know.

CLIENT 2: Hesitation?

CLIENT 1: Oh, she needs this, and then I'm just being honest. And there's nothing... I'm not trying to pull anything on him. I'm just being straightforward, and he thinks there's something behind it still. So that's frustrating. [0:06:56] (Pause) But I feel like I'm trying to start anew. And I need you to try to forgive me and see that.

CLIENT 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can do that. (Pause) Yeah.

THERAPIST: Well, I'm glad this week was a better week for you guys. And I want to take up with what you were saying in terms of arguing with... arguing better or arguing less or both?

CLIENT 1: I think we still had our arguments. I just feel like it wasn't all week. I mean, we had one night of an argument, and then it was, like, he recognized my feelings, and he had some remorse? And that made me respond to him better. And he normally doesn't have any remorse, or under... like, if I'm upset, he gets angry instead of like, oh, why are you upset? [0:07:57] He gets angry and wants to go away. The fight or flight. He wants to leave (chuckling), so (inaudible at 0:08:05)...

CLIENT 2: Well, yeah, I do that because of usually how you act when you're doing it, when you're upset.

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

CLIENT 2: That's all. That's why I do that.

CLIENT 1: And I normally need you there when I'm upset instead of taking off.

CLIENT 2: Well, [I ask you then] (ph).

CLIENT 1: And he did better with that, and if he was wrong he would say, I'm sorry for this. And that makes it better.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. The acknowledging part...

CLIENT 1: Right.

THERAPIST: It seems like was a big difference.

CLIENT 1: Yeah, absolutely. So...

CLIENT 2: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: Did it feel different for you, too?

CLIENT 2: It felt like a normal week (chuckling). (inaudible at 0:08:53) I didn't change anything. It just felt like a normal week to me for the most part. [0:08:59] Just felt like we... just things were easier, and it was more of a flow. It was just less butting heads and stepping on each other's toes. Or at least that's kind of what I got out of it because usually we're butting heads. (Crosstalk)

CLIENT 1: We had more time with each other this week, too. We weren't just going to bed and going to sleep. We spent time with each other.

CLIENT 2: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT 1: So I think that's part of it. If you're not in a good situation, you never see that person, you're just running about, everything's an annoyance. And you just don't feel like you're in a relationship or you're connecting with that person if you never see them. [0:09:56] So I think that's some of our difficulties. Well, I feel that way. That's how I feel.

THERAPIST: Well, it also sounds like... I guess I'm wondering... it seems like for you, Steve, sometimes when Marlene is upset...

CLIENT 2: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: You feel like, oh my God, I can't say anything.

CLIENT 2: No, no, it's not like that.

THERAPIST: Well, it's not... I mean, sometimes, I didn't mean all the time.

CLIENT 1: Yeah, he's like that.

CLIENT 2: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: When you feel you can't talk freely is when Marlene's just... you feel Marlene's reacting. I guess... well, let me finish the second part of my question, then you could maybe say that the way I'm thinking about it isn't right. But it seems like sometimes when Marlene's upset, you feel like, oh, I have to watch everything I say. I can't sort of speak freely. And then sometimes... like, it sounds like last week when she was upset you comforted her. I mean, that's a very different reaction to... so I don't know if you just... like, it was something you thought about or you just felt it differently? Do you have a thought about that?

CLIENT 2: No, I mean, I felt normal. It felt right, you know? [0:10:58]

CLIENT 1: You said you felt bad. You felt bad that we fought.

CLIENT 2: Well, yeah, I always feel bad when we fight. I never like fighting. That's nothing new. (Crosstalk)

CLIENT 1: Yeah. I don't know. I guess him acknowledging it...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT 1: He didn't feel good.

CLIENT 2: I've always told you I can't stand fighting and argument.

CLIENT 1: Yeah, but it was different this time. It seemed different. It seemed like you were really genuine.

CLIENT 2: That's good (chuckling).

CLIENT 1: Yeah. So...

THERAPIST: So I have a couple of thoughts. I'm glad to hear that you were able to work through something because you left here really in a bad place.

CLIENT 1: Oh, I know. But that's, like, our fights. And then the next day it's... we're fine. But it's like, when we're in a battle or a fight over something stupid, that's how brutal it gets.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT 1: And it's hard to forget that, how we talk to each other. [0:11:58]

THERAPIST: Well, my one thought about watching you guys last weekend was very... or it certainly impacted... made an impact on me, is that I feel like you guys are tapping into a wound or hurt so deep. Like, it just feels so deep.

CLIENT 2: Hmm.

THERAPIST: It's not like, just give me some space, you know (chuckling)?

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's so deep for both of you. I was giving the example for you. Like, it's just... that's what really stayed with me. And I don't know what these wounds are and why they go so deep? I'm not sure, but that's sort of the impression it made on me.

CLIENT 2: Hmm.

CLIENT 1: Yeah. Well, it feels like that when we fight, for me anyways.

CLIENT 2: Yeah, yeah. It's just stuff from last three, four years. It just all adds up.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like it's more than just the last three or four years?

CLIENT 2: No. No. I mean, I know Marlene has (chuckling)... she's got a different opinion, but... [0:12:59]

(Phone alert)

CLIENT 1: Sorry (chuckling).

THERAPIST: It's okay.

CLIENT 2: Just because we were younger, I don't... I was kind of all over the place. Mar, she was always (inaudible at 0:13:11).

THERAPIST: (Sneezing) Excuse me.

CLIENT 1: Bless you.

CLIENT 2: Bless you.

THERAPIST: Thank you (chuckling).

CLIENT 2: She was just always kind of there. And I'd be like, oh, maybe I'll meet up with you, and then I just went off and did my thing. [What was different when we were younger?] (ph) It's just completely different, completely different.

CLIENT 1: I don't know, I just... when we fight, it's like we hate each other. There's such passion and hate. So it's dramatic.

THERAPIST: Where do you feel like that's coming from in you?

CLIENT 1: That's how my family members fight. I would say that's how I would fight with my parents, but... [0:13:59]

THERAPIST: Hmm. And what's that hate about?

CLIENT 1: I don't know that there's any hate there. We've just always been dramatic people.

THERAPIST: I see. I was just... you were saying there's such hate, and then you were saying, my parents (ph)...

CLIENT 1: No, it just feels like we talk to each other like we're enemies when we fight, instead of in a loving way, like a disagreement. It's like, I don't know... just really seems like he is disgusted with me, and I with him. It's just... I don't know how we can fight in a better way or have a better disagreement? How do you control that emotion, I guess, where it's not such a big deal? It's not like tearing apart our relationship. [0:14:56]

THERAPIST: With your parents, what similarity were you drawing?

CLIENT 1: Well, my mother was... or my father was always, like, everything was a big deal. And it was, like, we'd have a fight, but the next day it's like it never happened. But it was still wicked dramatic.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT 1: So with us we... that... our fights go on, like that damage, or those feelings, those hurt feelings are still there, where with my parents it's like we never would talk about it again (chuckling). So...

THERAPIST: Hmm. Did it stay with you?

CLIENT 1: Yeah, of course.

THERAPIST: But you had a sense it didn't stay with them? Or it just didn't... wasn't acknowledged?

CLIENT 1: Wasn't acknowledged. Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: I see. And what were the fights about? Anything in particular?

CLIENT 1: Just school, what I wanted to do with my life, or anything they didn't agree with, because they always had a tight hold, like, everything they were afraid of (chuckling). [0:16:01] It seems like they didn't know... if they didn't know something, then they didn't want me to do it.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT 1: It was the same with college and even relationships. Like, before I moved out, I didn't have my parents' permission. They still think I should be living at home, which makes no sense. But...

THERAPIST: Do they think you should be living at home forever?

CLIENT 1: No, but until I'm married or financially stable, they think that. Yeah. So my mom's definitely against living with somebody before marriage?

THERAPIST: Does she give you a hard time about it?

CLIENT 1: Well, any time we fight and I talk to her about it, she'll be like, well, it's not good to live outside of marriage. But she did it with my father, so...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT 1: But it's just, like, how she's religious, and she blames it on that. [0:17:03]

THERAPIST: Even though she did it herself.

CLIENT 1: Right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Got it.

CLIENT 1: Very young.

THERAPIST: Got it.

CLIENT 1: It's do what I say not as I do kind of thing in our house. So that's how we usually... I don't know, that's how I see in our religion, you know, you try your best.

THERAPIST: And what you're describing in terms of them kind of wanting to control you, it sounds like it's based at least in part out of fear.

CLIENT 1: Right, yeah.

THERAPIST: Like, they don't know what's out there, and so they...

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I see, they're afraid for you to leave and, I don't know, get pregnant (ph).

CLIENT 1: They're... my mother's afraid of everything.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT 1: Like, she always says she worries about me and my brother, yeah.

THERAPIST: Do they tend to stick to their routine and not get out of it? They're kind of scared of new stuff?

CLIENT 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

THERAPIST: Hmm. [0:17:59]

CLIENT 1: My mom... my dad more so than my mom. Like, my mom would like to do a lot more, but my father's, like, never had a vacation in his life. You have to force him to do stuff like that. He's very routine and old school. But...

THERAPIST: To just... I'm sorry, I have allergies. To answer your question about sort of how do you fight less intensely or how do you sort of not feel like you're fighting to the end or something...

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And there's a couple of answers to that. I mean, one is to understand what is getting stirred up...

CLIENT 1: Right.

THERAPIST: What this immediate fight over the garbage is stirring up, right? Because it's probably... I'm giving... I guess you guys do sort of fight about chores, but I'm sort of just giving it as a...

CLIENT 2: No, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I understand what you're saying. [0:18:56]

THERAPIST: Right. So it's, like, what's at stake with...? What does this mean?

CLIENT 2: Hmm.

THERAPIST: This clearly... there's the... there's a text and then there's a subtext. It's, like, what's really going on, the subtitles?

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

CLIENT 2: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: So that's one way to handle it. We have been, I think, starting to talk about that. Like, what's at stake in this fight? What are you guys really fighting about?

CLIENT 2: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: And sort of understanding that I think really can help diffuse the immediate topics, that's one way. The other way, and it sounds like... these are... they're not... they can all happen at once. And this is really hard at the moment, but it sounds like you guys did it after, is try to put your hurt aside for a moment and, what is the other person trying to say to me?

CLIENT 2: Hmm.

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like, just... and it's so hard in the heat of the moment. It's like, you're hurt is everything. It takes up your entire field of vision.

CLIENT 1: Right.

THERAPIST: There's nothing else you can see. And, if there's any way to even just move it slightly... so even if your left eye, out of the corner of your left eye you can see something else, it really makes things very, very different...

CLIENT 2: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT 1: Right.

THERAPIST: Because you guys... I mean, some couples really are going out to hurt each other. [0:20:00]

CLIENT 1: Right.

THERAPIST: I mean, they are. I don't see that in you. I see that you're hearing things in a way that feels so wounding, and then maybe you can try to wound the other person out of reaction or defense at that but not because you want to be mean to each other.

CLIENT 2: Hmm.

THERAPIST: You guys don't want to be mean to each other.

CLIENT 2: Right.

THERAPIST: You love each other, and you want to get along better. And so it seems like when that consumes you, like it did last week, it's very hard to think outside of that.

CLIENT 1: Right.

CLIENT 2: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And then around that, I mean, there's often strategies to just how you stop yourself in the moment?

CLIENT 1: Right.

THERAPIST: There's sort of very basic... sort of around slowing that down rather than just reacting and being kind of consumed with your own hurt. And they're (ph) easier said and done. But some couples really find that, if they try to actually practice it, they get better when they're practicing it.

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So that's more of a kind of a practical approach to it.

CLIENT 2: Right.

THERAPIST: I think both are important because what's at stake in these fights I think is very important. To see the pain that each of you express, I mean, it's just... I mean, it really made a deep impact on me.

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

CLIENT 2: Hmm. [0:21:03] Yeah.

CLIENT 1: Yeah, I understand.

CLIENT 2: So those are both very good ways of trying to break down an argument or a disagreement about something, come to, I guess, a resolution. Yeah. Those both run through my mind every time we get into an argument about something, like, is this...? One, is it really worth it? And two, all right, let's try to focus on what she's telling but what she's not... what she's telling me, but what she's not saying telling me, you know what I mean? So...

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT 1: Yeah, if I'm emotional, I have a hard time expressing what the issue is (chuckling), so...

CLIENT 2: Yeah, but both of those things went through my head, especially when we get into arguments about stupid stuff. [0:22:03]

CLIENT 1: Everything's so silly, too, after you look at it. Like, it wasn't worth it. So... and then we get it later on, like, you understand what the other person was saying. So... (Pause)

THERAPIST: I mean, in these moments, it seems like it boils down to you, Marlene, feeling so profoundly rejected...

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Rejected. And you, I don't know if I could put my finger on it as well with you, Steve...

CLIENT 2: (inaudible at 0:22:40) I get that from a lot of people (chuckling).

THERAPIST: But maybe there's something... no. Well, but really?

CLIENT 2: Yeah.

THERAPIST: In terms of what?

CLIENT 2: Oh, I don't know. It's just I'm kind of always in my own category for some reason.

CLIENT 1: (Chuckling)

CLIENT 2: I don't know.

THERAPIST: That's not necessarily a bad thing.

CLIENT 2: Yeah, no, not necessarily.

THERAPIST: Does it feel like it's bad sometimes? [0:22:58]

CLIENT 2: No. I like being unique (chuckling).

THERAPIST: Well, it's about... there's something about freedom. Like, you kept saying your free time, like, Marlene's trying to interfere with your free time and your space. And there's something about that. I mean, it was just very poignant. It was something that was just heartbreaking to you about that.

CLIENT 2: Yeah, I just... no, that's just when I was talking about it. I think we were talking about when I get time to do stuff and whether I'm able to just go to the mall or... I don't know (chuckling). It's a bad example, I guess. Just in the moment just go do something. But...

CLIENT 1: Yeah, I can get better at that (chuckling).

CLIENT 2: Yeah, we can work on that stuff.

CLIENT 1: But most of the time we're not around each other, and it's not a problem. [0:23:57]

CLIENT 2: Hmm.

CLIENT 1: Right?

CLIENT 2: Well, we (chuckling)... obviously it's not a problem if you're not around.

CLIENT 1: Yeah. It's just more, like, he used to want to take me places like that. Now it's about getting his free time. So I was getting hurt by that. I understand. I mean, I get a lot of free time, and, if I didn't have that, I'd probably go crazy, too.

CLIENT 2: Hmm, well, not that I don't think you ever thought about this, but being an only child, living by myself, I was always trying to get out the door. And you know this, when I was living at my parents' house? My mother and my mother's boyfriend? Always trying to get out, just to get out to do something. So just...

THERAPIST: Were they... did they like to kind of take your...? What...?

CLIENT 2: No, I just... I never got along with my mother's boyfriend when I was younger. We get along fine now. [0:24:58] But just I was always just trying to get out to go hang out with my friends because there was nothing to do my... my mother's house is very small, there's a loft upstairs, two bedrooms and a bathroom downstairs, there's a kitchen, a living room, and that's it (chuckling). And it drives me crazy. I used to live in a bigger house, and, when you do live in a bigger house, you get that sense of, all right, well, I'll spend some time over here. And then, if I want, I can go over here, or I can go over there, rather than taking off and going down the road to do something. It's different when... at least for me. I know it's different for everybody, but...

CLIENT 1: Like, [so you can get your privacy] (ph)?

CLIENT 2: Yeah, right now we can only go upstairs or downstairs. Sometimes I like to go down the road to do something, I don't know.

THERAPIST: So this was... you moved into a smaller house when your parents divorced?

CLIENT 2: Well, yeah, my father got transferred. We were living in Virginia. He was working for a big machining company. [0:25:59] And yeah, we... he got transferred to the Maryland location, so we had to relocate from Virginia to Maryland. And yeah, we had to get a smaller... I went from being in a pretty... a fairly good sized house to a... I don't know, I can't... I don't know the name of it, but like a split-up... I wouldn't say it's apartment, but it's like a...

CLIENT 1: Condo?

CLIENT 2: Not even...

THERAPIST: A townhouse?

CLIENT 2: Yeah, it's like, there's one neighbor on one side, and one neighbor on the other side, split right up the middle? And there's two double doors, there's two doors right in the middle of the front of the house? We went to that and then went from that to the house that we were waiting to be built. Anyway, [I'm going on] (ph). But, I don't know, just something about...

THERAPIST: Space.

CLIENT 2: Yeah, yeah. When I don't hang out with friends and I'm not hanging out with Marlene, sometimes it's just good for me to get out and have time to myself so I can feel like I can move around. [0:27:09]

CLIENT 1: Which you've been doing.

CLIENT 2: Hmm?

CLIENT 1: He's been biking.

THERAPIST: You guys like biking.

CLIENT 2: Yeah.

CLIENT 1: Yeah, we're right by a trail, so we can just go outside. Cool (ph).

THERAPIST: You know, we are going to need to stop. I'm sorry you guys didn't have much time today.

CLIENT 1: That's fine.

CLIENT 2: That's okay.

THERAPIST: I was going to ask you, so my assistant probably sent you the statement.

CLIENT 1: Yep.

THERAPIST: Right? So starting from when we recorded I could charge you the $40, that's not fine... that's fine...

CLIENT 1: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: But the sessions that... well, I don't know, maybe we can figure it out. I need to charge you a little bit more for the sessions before that?

CLIENT 1: Okay, yeah. I'm going to go through the insurance and everything.

THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah, okay. You can look it over, we'll figure...

CLIENT 1: Is that...?

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's fine. So starting from last week it'll just be $40 a session plus whatever the insurance gives.

CLIENT 1: Right.

THERAPIST: And then there's a few sessions in between. We'll figure something out. Does that make sense?

CLIENT 1: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense, yeah. [0:27:57]

THERAPIST: Okay, all right, good.

CLIENT 1: And hopefully if I send this other statement [I'll make my deductible] (ph).

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah, that first statement, so did you send that in yet?

CLIENT 1: Yeah, I called. I called, I have to. They said I never sent it in, but I did.

THERAPIST: Ai (ph). But that will help... I think that will help with everything.

CLIENT 1: Yeah. Definitely.

THERAPIST: I'll just... okay, very good. So... oh, I was going to ask you one other thing. My regular time on Tuesday... I'm... my Tuesdays keep shifting. Can you do 10:00 as a regular time, and that'll stay like that?

CLIENT 1: I know next week I have... I'm working overnight. Like, I worked overnight this week, too, so...

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT 2: She just got out of work about three hours ago?

CLIENT 1: Yeah, something like that.

THERAPIST: So is that... would that not work?

CLIENT 1: I don't know, it would be tough.

THERAPIST: For next week or ongoing?

CLIENT 1: Next week. And then the two weeks after that, they have me scheduled to work, so...

THERAPIST: Okay. So are mornings not good for you at all, or just later in the morning?

CLIENT 1: Just these two weeks.

CLIENT 2: The next few weeks, like, the next month will be difficult for her. [0:28:58]

CLIENT 1: Yeah, (crosstalk).

THERAPIST: So do you want to check...? So can you not do a morning time at all, or...?

CLIENT 1: I can do a morning time, it's just more... because I get out at 8:00, and then, to get home, it's 9:00...

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT 1: And then to get here, like, traffic, I need at least...

THERAPIST: Right, it would be too... and you don't want an afternoon time because afternoon times weren't working?

CLIENT 1: I mean, if we had to, (crosstalk).

CLIENT 2: We'd have to meet here, right? We'd have to meet here. I mean, you don't have to come all the way home to get me. I have a car.

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So you're ideally looking for late morning, is that correct? I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

CLIENT 2: It doesn't matter. I mean, honestly, I think the earlier the better because it's my day off Tuesdays. So I like to have the rest of the day to do whatever, you know what I mean? [So I'll leave it] (ph) up to her.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT 1: And then the 21st and the 28th, I have to look at my schedule because they have me working those two days, so I wouldn't be able to come.

THERAPIST: So you wouldn't be able to come... oh, at all?

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT 1: So I'll see if I can adjust that with people.

THERAPIST: Okay. [0:29:55] Well, let's... so why don't we figure out next week, and then let's... because I'd like to get you guys in a regular slot. My Tuesdays are... I want to... so that we can count on that.

CLIENT 1: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I'm sorry, I kept getting confused about what I have available on Tuesday morning. I do have a 2:30 on Tuesday afternoon, but that doesn't seem like that worked well for you.

CLIENT 1: Yeah. Just because he wants his time during the day. Then by the time we get home it's, like, 5:00.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT 2: Yeah.

CLIENT 1: We can do 10:00, that's fine.

THERAPIST: So can you do 10:00 next week?

CLIENT 1: You just would have to meet me here.

THERAPIST: Is that all right?

CLIENT 2: Yeah, that's fine.

THERAPIST: If that works for you, that will be great. Okay.

CLIENT 2: Yeah, that's fine. Sure.

CLIENT 1: Okay.

THERAPIST: Okay, so I'll see you guys, and we'll keep it at 10:00.

CLIENT 2: Okay. Thank you so much.

CLIENT 1: All right. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Okay, take care. Great. Bye bye.

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