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THERAPIST: Feel like it's been awhile since I've seen you.

CLIENT: Two weeks.

THERAPIST: [inaudible] a really long time.

CLIENT: It does. It's been a really good 2 weeks.

THERAPIST: I'm glad to hear that.

CLIENT: I always have a good week or two and then the night before I come to see you. So last night.

THERAPIST: You should just come see me every day.

CLIENT: (Laughing) Hopefully not, if that's the way it works. Ok, so last night I went out with a friend of both mine and Josh's who wanted to introduce us to a bunch of her friends she just met. So no one really knew each other, and everyone was kind of awkward, and it ended up being really fun, but it was sort of I don't know, taxing I think. And so by the end of it I'll go all sort of like, and one of the girls there

THERAPIST: Wait, all sort of what?

CLIENT: Wound up. And it was a bunch of this girls good at cycling, and it was like a bunch of cycling. I ended up getting into a conversation one girl because she was complaining about not being able to sleep. [0:01:12]

CLIENT: She has all the same problems that I do, and I was really excited. So, I don't know. So you know and my friend liked one of the other people there, and wanted us to like gauge the situation better. So the whole thing was like a little dramatic and got me all wound up. I mean you know how I am, a little overweight, and I went to bed. I was really happy when I got home, it was really fun, but I was just all wound up and Josh was actually super cranky.

THERAPIST: What does wound up? Describe to me what that feels like physically and emotionally.

CLIENT: Happens to me all the time. I mean I told you when I have dealings with other people, if it's fine it's my own doing I get energized from them. Sometimes it goes over the top.

THERAPIST: So is wound up over the top of energized? Just trying to fully understand what it means for you. [0:02:15]

CLIENT: I don't know, I just get a ton of energy. Like I could go run a marathon afterwards.

THERAPIST: Is that a good feeling? Or.

CLIENT: Yeah it is, it is.

THERAPIST: Ok, intense but good. Hyper.

CLIENT: Yeah, hyper.

THERAPIST: A kind of gung ho kind of body language.

CLIENT: Hyper.

THERAPIST: Hyper, ok.

CLIENT: I don't know why this happens. This happens, I think I told you last time, but going on a bike ride with the girls, I don't know I just got really hyper.

THERAPIST: And you felt like that was overwhelming for her, and Phyllis and Barb.

CLIENT: Yeah, and then I mean part of the reason I enjoy this other girl I went out with yesterday is because she also is also kind of hyper. When we go on bike rides together, we are just extreme, but match.

THERAPIST: Well then it's matched, so you don't feel like you're overwhelming somebody else with your. [0:03:09]

CLIENT: Yeah, and I recognize I will have [inaudible] it's happening. So I did not. I got home and Josh was super cranky because he was tired, and a bunch of girls and he was hungover. He wanted to go sleep, and I was super tired too, but wound up and I made the mistake again of trying to go right to sleep and then woke up in the middle of the night like still wound up.

THERAPIST: Yeah you need your newlit period.

CLIENT: Yeah I was a little frustrated because I'm not entirely sure what works.

THERAPIST: Yeah to kind of calm you down.

CLIENT: I mean when I had successfully, I was successful at calming myself down once or twice before after going on, I think I told you about one night where I did go right to sleep and then played with the puppy until like late at night. I don't know but I was hoping to have a corrective day today.

THERAPIST: Right, and? [0:04:03]

CLIENT: I've just been completely useless today. Feel tired today as well.

THERAPIST: There's lots of reasons to feel tired today. You woke up last night. The weather is sort of tired inducing.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I talked to the other girl actually, and she told me she couldn't go to sleep until super late. She was all wound up too. At least I'm not alone in this.

THERAPIST: What happens when you woke up in the middle of the night?

CLIENT: I don't know it was almost like I have never gone to sleep my mind was still like hyper kind of going. I mean I do a bunch of work at least it's positive. I did not stay up all night like uncomfortable, but it wasn't that great either.

THERAPIST: Did you happen to try doing one of the relaxation exercises before you fell asleep?

CLIENT: No. I read a little, which seems to work. Although I have a terrible book I'm reading.

THERAPIST: Switch books. Terrible in that you don't like it, or terrible that it's not relaxing?

CLIENT: Ah, both. [0:05:14]

CLIENT: It's a book that I was hoping to go to this lecture book club chat thing about it. I don't think I'll go, unless I force myself to read it.

THERAPIST: what is it?

CLIENT: It's about an MG invasion in the future in country. [inaudible].

THERAPIST: You need to find a book that's actually pleasurable. Especially if you are using as your kind of transition to try to calm you down.

CLIENT: Well until last night it was working pretty well, because I was really tired but relaxing was so boring and I was just reading pages.

THERAPIST: Bored is different than relaxed though.

CLIENT: Right, if I'm already relaxed it works really well.

THERAPIST: The work actually relaxed you. [0:06:00]

THERAPIST: I mean nights like that where you have something that ramps you up before you go to sleep, any night really and trying to make a transition into feeling calm and feeling relaxed might be a good time to do some of the breathing exercise we do in here, and the progressive muscle relaxation. Because it gives you a focus to try and calm your mind down if you're thinking about each body part and tensing and relaxing it. You know take some of the racing thought away because at least part of you is going to be focused on the process. And then it has the physical part of probably deepening your breath and slowing things done. Relaxing your muscles, it can help you kind of induce that come down.

CLIENT: Yeah I mean I think it would take a long time, and I have a hard time deciding okay I'm just gonna do another hour, it's like relax.

THERAPIST: It's unlikely that it's gonna take an hour. It is gonna take some time. [0:07:05]

THERAPIST: But I think you may be overestimating how much time you need to do something like that. When we do it in sessions, we don't give it more than 10 minutes. And I know you're not asleep at the end of that, but you generally do feel more relaxed.

CLIENT: That's true. That's true.

THERAPIST: So it may be somewhere more than 10 minutes, and the goal isn't necessarily that you'll finish the exercise and be asleep, but that you're relaxed and then able to fall asleep. So you may need to devote more than 10 minutes, but I think an hour is a really high estimate.

CLIENT: So I mean this past week I've been feeling more and more like energized. Which is great but that it also makes me also nuts because I cannot blow. A week ago I had just had my class presenting all their projects and they were freaking out left and right, and all kinds of problems. I left class and I was gonna go home. I was just so wound up I just had a need to really go run, which is not, this is like 5 o'clock this month. Something I like to a little bit long time, it's like me please go run. It's 5 o'clock and I usually want to go home and lay down. [0:08:08]

THERAPIST: What is the feeling behind I need to go run? What were you thinking the run was gonna do?

CLIENT: Because the idea of sitting down and relaxing is so unrelaxing like the thought of it is so. Like I just feel wound up but not because I'm doing something, because all that needs to be let out.

THERAPIST: Feel kind of keyed up.

CLIENT: Which is what you told me one of the things. So and I was like well I think this is good because it's what I used to feel like, but this is bad because maybe then it's just anxiety of turning so. I did not get too wrapped up in that. But thinking about it.

THERAPIST: Anxiety doesn't have to be bad. I mean I think what may be a better word for what you're feeling is arousal, which is not as pejorative as anxiety. Anxiety makes me think of bad, and I think that keyed up, hyper feeling that you're talking about is kind of your physiological arousal. [0:09:12]

THERAPIST: You've get a lot of energy, it's up, your I don't know if we would test your blood pressure right now what it might be. Or your muscle tension, or your heart rate, but there might be signs of arousal going on there. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. You don't have to judge it one way or the other. Maybe what we need to do is figure out how to use it. Like so how do you use that to be energy and motivation for exciting things? How do we harness it? Kind of push it in the direction to help you rather than get in the way, you know of sleeping. How do you discharge it when it's not useful?

CLIENT: Well

THERAPIST: Did you run?

CLIENT: Yeah, it was kind of helpful yeah. Yeah time was really good. I mean it was confusing because I did not get home until like a little later. I don't know it's not something that I have until I really, really [inaudible] [0:10:07]

THERAPIST: Yeah confusing because it's not typical, you don't know what to do with it right now. That seemed to work, going for a run was felt good. It's nice to know you can still do that.

CLIENT: Yup. So I don't know. I don't know what's going on lately.

THERAPIST: I think you have more energy.

CLIENT: Yeah I've always wondered if like because I get so heartburn I get really tired, like I just use up all my energy like.

THERAPIST: Yeah I think we need to kind of figure out how to kind of contain it when it can be contained, and use it at will rather than feeling like you have no control over it. Because it sounds like right now it feels like you don't know exactly what's going to get you really keyed up, and you don't know what to do with it when you feel that way. [0:11:00]

CLIENT: Well I mean quite often it's great, like it always happens when I give presentations or, when I have some sort of like group that I'm like. It's just really only a problem at night. Coming home from something like last night.

THERAPIST: And not knowing how to calm down.

CLIENT: Yeah, and not doing the best job handling it. And I mean I cannot remember this happening to me, like in college. Maybe it did I just did not notice. I would notice or care if it was just one night after randomly.

THERAPIST: But know you care so much because you've seen how disastrous it could be when this isn't just one night. When this is a repeated process.

CLIENT: I mean it is, and maybe that's fine and it's ok when this happens, but it would great to have more control over it.

THERAPIST: What were the thoughts that were going on in your head when you got home from the thing last night? [0:12:00]

CLIENT: Well I was excited it went well. Because it started off kind of awkward and not so great and seem like it was a waste of time, and sort of uncomfortable and it ended up being really fun.

THERAPIST: So one thought was this is really fun. I'm glad it went well.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: What else was going on in your head?

CLIENT: You know I was thinking about my friend and her situation. I don't know.

THERAPIST: And what were you thinking of that?

CLIENT: I mean it's all a little silly but

THERAPIST: I'm not judging it.

CLIENT: It's really silly. Ah she has been sort of. She's got sort of like a girl-guy like, or the guy whose a girl leading on her, but because she according to my friend will not admit that she is gay. But keeps asking my friend out, and my friend reciprocates, and freaks out at her. It sounds like there could be serious problems with this girl.

THERAPIST: Not your friend, but the

CLIENT: Yeah my friend is deluded. One of them is deluded. [0:13:15]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Either my friend or the other girl. Interesting though you know, who is it?

THERAPIST: So that's what you're thinking which one of them is crazy here.

CLIENT: Yeah my friend is totally like, so and trying to like let it go because she thinks the other girl is deluded and doesn't want to like waste her time, yet so I've handled it because what happened to me with a little twist. And it's in the world of lacrosse which is a special group of people, or even strangers and regular people. I don't know.

The situation was just not [inaudible]. [0:14:00]

THERAPIST: So 2 things. Let's think about what can you do to help calm your thoughts? And what can you do to calm your body? So remember that sheet I gave you with all the lists of ways of thinking? What could you use to alter what you were thinking, just to kind of shut it down for the night?

CLIENT: And at that point nothing was about me. It was about her and just the excitement of it all. I'm not sure I could change my, I don't know how I would change my thoughts to stop, and I'm like [inaudible].

THERAPIST: When would you

CLIENT: So it was all physical at that point too.

THERAPIST: And I agree. I imagine that they are linked.

CLIENT: Yeah.[0:15:00]

THERAPIST: So I wonder if just sort of acknowledging that this stuff is not about you and that you could think about it more tomorrow? So you didn't have to kind of sort if all out, or process it all right then.

CLIENT: Yeah I mean I guess I was definitely overreacting [inaudible] big time. And feeling that way I was overreacting and making it worse by like being hung over and feeling good. Just afraid of it. (Crying a little)

THERAPIST: But you should be allowed to feel good. That's not a bad thing, and be excited that you feel good. Because it's such a, I think it's a relief to feel good after having felt, you know feeling numb or feeling badly for most of the time.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess knowing myself I probably should have sit and tried to calm myself down. I should probably like clean something and cleaning. It isn't like playing with the puppy wasn't good. [0:16:00]

THERAPIST: Well because it gives you a little bit to be active. So maybe setting some time, even though it's at night, thinking well I'm gonna take 15 minutes to speed clean or play with the puppy. But to give you a limited amount of time to discharge some of that energy.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean it's really hard with Josh because he just wants to go to bed and he's cranky. It makes it hard for me to be like ok I'm gonna stay up then.

THERAPIST: Do you guys typically go to bed at the same time?

CLIENT: Yeah. He would go to bed at like 9 o'clock if left to his own devices. Often he stays up, just relaxing until I go to bed.

THERAPIST: What would it be like to have separate bedtimes?

CLIENT: I mean it does not come from me, it comes from him. He likes to go to bed

THERAPIST: Would he be okay with that? Going to bed before you.[0:17:00]

CLIENT: Yeah, and sometimes he does. He's so tired, or if I still have work to do. We were always on the same sort of schedule, just because it's what we both like to do, just as for well I'm also please to exercise in the morning. And I don't know but he's having a lot of trouble lately because he's going in 2 weeks to get his next procedure. Still kind of in a bad rhythm. Trying to like, I think feels terrible all the time.

THERAPIST: So that must be hard for both of you.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean. It's kind of a bummer. The better I feel, like I gotta go run after school, and he gets really sad that he couldn't come with me, and that just makes me feel bad. I've told you this before, it was more of a problem last year when he was really [inaudible] and not doing so well. He's not really depressed, I think he was, but just sort of. You know I just. No fun, and he was really sad and I wished he could come with me too. [0:18:11]

THERAPIST: How often are you able to go off and do like your run after school?

CLIENT: I mean lately, whenever. [inaudible].

THERAPIST: The past weeks lately?

CLIENT: Yes. Yup.

THERAPIST: It's hard when you're feeling good takes you farther away from him. It's hard for him, you feel a little bit badly about it.

CLIENT: Yeah I mean. We used to always go on adventures. Cannot really go on adventures.

THERAPIST: How is it impacting your relationship?

CLIENT: Our relationship is good. Mostly he's been super wrapped up in applying to schools. Which has not been going well. Poor guy. [0:19:11]

CLIENT: He had a professor not submit a recommendation for [inaudible] despite a zillion calls and e-mails. He kind of, he did not do it. Every year this happens to like both people I know. Yeah and he even like. And this is a guy that is applying to schools to work for also. [inaudible] also is the same school, so anyway. For [inaudible] it's not a good person to wait for. The important thing is [inaudible] Then he studied [inaudible] ended up getting the same score he got 5 years ago. So it was a waste of time. Now he's just got of a stress case over the whole thing. [0:20:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah so he's putting all this time into the school thing because he cannot put time into the musical thing.

CLIENT: Yeah, we're all super busy. Working on it, so that's good.

THERAPIST: And then not getting the end result though.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I mean it's good that he's still pushing on. Which is nice, but yeah he's definitely putting his energy into that. So that's good.

THERAPIST: What are you still connecting on? What is keeping your relationship fulfilling?

CLIENT: Oh yeah, no it is, definitely. Well we always have our morning coffee time, which despite all my like soft spots wanting to like just get up and go to school or whatever we just always. It's too nice to get rid of despite the fact that it's not very productive.

THERAPIST: Well, what is it productive for?

CLIENT: Well it is productive for our relationship. I don't know we go out once a week, or twice a week together, which is always nice. [0:21:08]

THERAPIST: What do you guys usually do when you go out?

CLIENT: Quite often we just [inaudible] and sort of silly days in which we end up going like to coffee and then to dinner and a movie, just kind of.

THERAPIST: It's nice.

CLIENT: Wandering around. We don't do anything particularly

THERAPIST: Relaxing?

CLIENT: Um hmm. Yup. Two favorite bands. We do but

THERAPIST: Is it tough to sit through a movie and feel comfortable?

CLIENT: Um, yeah.

THERAPIST: Your eyes and your voice says something different. What's it like for you to sit through a whole movie? [0:22:00]

CLIENT: Lately I guess, this past weekend he really wanted to go out to the movies, and we just ended up watching one at home because I was really tired. I don't know before I got my period this month, maybe like a few days before. I was just like the thought of staying out late was above me. But it wasn't, it was pretty obvious what was happening. It wasn't that I was not sleeping or anything, I was just drained.

THERAPIST: And that was really connected to your cycle, and then once you got your period you felt more energized?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. Because it definitely something

CLIENT: It was killing me, and like it was very obvious.

THERAPIST: Was this was what's happening, but it's a track, because then at least you can attribute it correctly to you're not going crazy, nothing's wrong with you, this is you know.

CLIENT: Yeah, you just asked that, and it was funny because I was trying to make myself go, because I knew he really wanted to go and take me out, I just really wanted to go home crash on the couch then. [0:23:00]

CLIENT: But yeah I don't have any trouble sitting through a movie.

THERAPIST: Okay. No restlessness?

CLIENT: Uh no, no. The first time I felt restless in a while was last night. I know my natural state is definitely more restless than. Josh cannot put up with me, I drive him crazy.

THERAPIST: What do you do that drives him crazy?

CLIENT: I don't know, get up all the time and. Just basically get up every 1/2 an hour and do something. I think it's reasonable, most people don't seem the need to do that.

THERAPIST: But it's not, I mean if you're saying you're getting up every 1/2 an hour. That does not, yes some people can sit longer than that, but being able to sit 1/2 and hour is pretty good.

THERAPIST: And you can get your work done wit that pattern, so it's not a [inaudible] for you.

CLIENT: He don't understand it. Like if I get up, I mean I get up every 1/2 hour and like go get the laundry and bring it up, or like 1/2 an hour later I'll go and do something else useful and to him that's just like horrible. So he can't wait for the weekend [inaudible] [0:24:14]

THERAPIST: But that works for you, so we don't need to pathologize it.

CLIENT: Yeah I mean it's strange.

THERAPIST: It's you feel like it's strange or you feel like it's strange that he cannot tolerate it?

CLIENT: I mean he's controlling what he needs to be able to study. So.

THERAPIST: How are things with your family?

CLIENT: My family is good.

THERAPIST: How you feeling toward Dad?

CLIENT: He's keeping away, I haven't talked to him in awhile.

THERAPIST: I know when we first started meeting, your anger toward him was pretty strong. And it's not something you've brought up in awhile, so I guess I just wanted to check in see how it was over Thanksgiving, and if it's an important piece right now. [0:25:09]

CLIENT: It's not. Over Thanksgiving I really did not talk to him very much. He started off Thanksgiving telling a story about you know we feel about being doomed, and whatever and I started crying. It was really embarrassing, and uncomfortable. I couldn't bring myself to really talk to him for the rest of the day. [inaudible] forgive him for that.

THERAPIST: How did other people respond?

CLIENT: Similarly. I mean my brothers were just like oh Dad, here he goes again.

THERAPIST: I'm glad he's trying to honor the history.

CLIENT: But I mean, I felt it was selfish to cry over something he had no personal connection to.

THERAPIST: So it's not the telling of the story that bothered you, it was his crying about [0:26:09]

CLIENT: Well his crying because it struck some nerve in him about death or something, I don't know exactly. Life is meaningless, whatever it is that he was feeling, and then couldn't hold it in. And I mean it was like a long story. This went on for awhile. And I had actually the same problem last night. The dream was kind of weird.

THERAPIST: It's not your typical Thanksgiving meal talk.

CLIENT: She actually loved it. Her family is a mess right now. Her Dad is divorced from her Mom and moved to like England, and I don't know it's bad though. My Dad's other friend whose family live far away love my family probably because we're very emotional. And my Dad loves to share. I don't know things were interesting. Especially now that [inaudible] to us, so. [0:27:13]

CLIENT: And I bought my Dad pants. Which he'll get really emotional about and cry about it.

THERAPIST: I can imagine maybe some tears over the destruction of the Temple.

CLIENT: Yeah and he will this time.

THERAPIST: There are some stories to tell. What do you want, is Hanukkah important to you? What do you want the story to be of how it goes?

CLIENT: No, I mean my family usually just. Well I mean when I was little what they would. You know we light the candles and play board games, and give each other little presents.

THERAPIST: And what's planned for this year?

CLIENT: I don't know, the emotions might cancel [inaudible] my father. He would, we were too young to refuse. We wrote a family song, and he will sing it and cry. And it's terrible. [0:28:10]

CLIENT: And my Mom will play guitar because she doesn't, I mean she has blinders for him and his emotional. She let him [inaudible]. She [inaudible] it'll be Hanukkah. But now at the pants he'll probably cry because he came to visit me, and we actually had a tolerable weekend, for some reason we can shop together. I don't know why exactly. It's one thing we can actually do. He really likes to go shopping with me, and he wears. He spends no money on himself ever, and he's a good looking guy, or could he be a lot more if he really wanted to. So I made him try on a pair of my pants that were not that nice, but nice enough, and he was like so excited. He looked so good in them, but they were too expensive and he wouldn't buy them so I bought them for him because he refused to. I couldn't let him continue on with his crappy pants when he could look that good so. [0:29:13]

CLIENT: And he looked, every time he wears them he tells me he's wearing them. He'll tell everyone else in the whole entire family about them. It's exciting I have more pants for you.

THERAPIST: Well that's really thoughtful of you. One, to be able to know that this is really meaningful to him, and to do something that you know he will really enjoy. That really is the meaning of giving. So it's nice of you to be able to do that. Even though you anticipate being annoyed and frustrated by other aspects of how he'll handle the holiday.

CLIENT: Yeah when he gets like that, I don't know, it's a problem. I kind of shut off a little bit. The more emotion he shows the less I'm capable of showing. [0:30:01]

CLIENT: And so in a way that's not, doesn't cause problems in our relationship. Just that. It's not actual conversation which we are getting into a fight or something.

THERAPIST: There's no confrontation, but I mean you said I kind of didn't talk to my dad over Thanksgiving so it's fine. So when you saw him responding to something in a way that felt inappropriate to you. Or if not inappropriate at least the sort of intensity felt really inappropriate to you.

CLIENT: Um hmm.

THERAPIST: You put up a barrier. Because it was too much for you to handle so you created that distance and kind of shut down a little bit or shut off.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Which made it tolerable.

CLIENT: In the context of like this happens all the time.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And maybe one time would have been fine.

THERAPIST: Sure, if it was unique event you probably would have tried to find a way to understand what was going on. But this is not a unique event. This is.

CLIENT: If my Mom cried it would be on my gosh!

THERAPIST: You would respond really differently. [0:31:00]

CLIENT: Yeah my Mom. The last time I saw my Mom cry like it was the first night I could remember since I was like, maybe ever, was when grandfather died.

THERAPIST: And she was crying at that time.

CLIENT: She was crying a little, and you just knew that she was so sad.

THERAPIST: And tears at grief and death feels appropriate, so you did not feel judgmental of her response. And felt genuine and on target and I'm sure you felt sad seeing your Mom so sad. But when you see your Dad crying about something that feels inappropriate because you know like you said, he's not connected really to the Native American story. It's not fresh wound. It's hard for you to feel empathy for that.

CLIENT: Yeah and I also worry about how much of that, is part of my problem. Like last night I was getting so hyper and sometimes I feel like I might come off kind of nuts. I asked Josh, I was like I hope I didn't come off like totally crazy by the end of the night. He said I don't think so. Okay I hope not. [0:32:11]

THERAPIST: But you're worried how your intensity affects other people?

CLIENT: Yeah, because I'm not this crazy when other people are like that. Like the girl I went on the bike ride with, she seems kind of

THERAPIST: She felt overwhelmed by it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So I think our goal is to find a way for you to feel what you're feeling, and channel it. To have a little bit more control over how you're channeling it. So that when you're getting feedback, you know like from that girl on the bike ride a couple of weeks ago, you kind of, you were getting the sense from her that maybe this was a little much. But you couldn't. There was not another way for you to be.

CLIENT: Right, and like my Dad I was like all wrapped up in my own emotions over how fun this was. And then I go bag, and then I'm comparing myself to my Dad. That's so horrible.

THERAPIST: You have a little bit more awareness than Dad. You don't know what to do with it yet, but you don't have another way to channel it, but you noticed. [0:33:03]

CLIENT: Yeah, and something. I have one friend who would always, we would go on long walks and do whatever else we were doing, I realized a longtime and time without me, and she would constantly ask me these like really caring questions about what am I on and stuff. I wish I could rely on her, and I wish that like

THERAPIST: When did you notice that it felt lopsided?

CLIENT: When, I forget exactly when the first conversation we had was. I was like well you know enough of that, I remember she had to tell me something terrible. Something, I forget exactly what, but there was one quotation where the end of my time telling some silly story or whatever was happening, you know she told me that her and her husband were in therapy because he wanted kids and she did not. I was like really, I could not have held that in for half and hour conversation for whatever I was doing. Probably grad school, you know but she was a good friend. She's like how's it going? What's happening? She remembers everything. [0:34:05]

CLIENT: And by being friends with her I was do I really need to ask her what's going on, what's going, because if I did not ask her I would never find out. So [inaudible] that friendship was really good. I guess I need to ask more questions. And Josh and I are both really bad with that. So, we had made a pact last New Year's to be like okay we're gonna stop with our bad habits, like telling silly stories about secret [inaudible] just act like we put the.

THERAPIST: A combo?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think being you will take, do both. Some people are only comfortable in their asking questions mode, and not comfortable disclosing things about themselves, and that act feels lopsided too. So I'm glad that you have this awareness that when asked a question it's easier for you to talk about, you know answer questions and talk about yourself then to do the reverse. You've got that awareness so you can add on to what your skills are and do both. [0:35:06]

CLIENT: Yeah. Well I mean I have less pressure seeing as my Dad usually does not ask questions. Usually he remembers what's happening in tears. He just end up sort of unraveling in a mess.

THERAPIST: And it sounds like you're not a carbon copy of Dad. Although, there may be some similarities that you dislike seeing. But you're not a carbon copy.

CLIENT: Well. So like when I have a great timeLike I'll chat with other people [inaudible] I hope I would be doing a good job of asking and whatever was going, and I mean I hope I hope so.

THERAPIST: And you said you asked Josh first for sort of his impact on how the other night went. You don't trust his response I'm guessing from the.

CLIENT: He was cranky.

THERAPIST: Do you have a sense of whether you asked other people or paid attention to how other people were responding. What their feedback was?

CLIENT: I mean it was a conversation, it was a fun conversation. So I'm sure it was fine.

THERAPIST: A one-sided, one person show?

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I'm not a big group of friends person, I would feel uncomfortable in that I wasn't [inaudible]. You know their like the [inaudible]. It's a really cool clothing line. [0:36:14] Friends, so.

THERAPIST: Well it sounds like one way to try to harness that energy is to think about kind of slowing things down. You're at a point where recognize what's going on, you can feel it. So now I think you're job is, when you want to, to be able to sort of slow things down a little bit, and slow it down and calm it down a little bit. So that you can have some, sort of a choice of how you responding rather than feeling like, it's happening, happening, happening, happening and you don't have any control.

CLIENT: Yeah I mean it's like the relaxing of your common parts. I try, but [inaudible].

THERAPIST: Well I mean it's hard to just switch modes. I think just like in a book, you know, it reaches the climax and then it doesn't end. There's that whole part where things start to get wrapped up, and they answer questions, and it slowly kind of comes to a conclusion. [0:37:11]

THERAPIST: You don't have a huge, big you know climax of the book and then cliffhanger. And that's exactly what you're trying to do to yourself. Get home, and relax in my bed, and I think you need to give yourself that part, you know that falling down part where things kind of slowly get wrapped up and processed, and moved on to the next phase. And you know, giving yourself some period to do something active, because your way in is through your body. And then but wrapping that up so its not getting home at 11 o'clock and going for an hour run. But giving yourself 15 minutes to yeah, dust the shelves, or organize the books, or do a load of laundry, but something where you move around a little bit, and feeling like your getting something accomplished but not in a further arousing way. [0:38:14]

CLIENT: I wish I'd thought of that.

THERAPIST: Why is that [inaudible] all the time lately?

CLIENT: Did it run out of space?

THERAPIST: Maybe that's what it is we have 53 seconds of space so. Well we're gonna do 10 minutes of relaxation, and whether it gets you closure or not is not important.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So we will practice relaxation here and then we will see how you can use that to try to you know. I've reminded you of it now and you can practice it at home. Let's before you get all relaxed, let's do all the businessey part of remembering when we are seeing each other next. [0:39:07]

CLIENT: I won't need any different [inaudible] will I?

THERAPIST: I think we're normal for awhile until we run into Christmas and New Year's and all that. Which of course are all on Tuesdays this year.

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