TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: When I was at school here...
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: ...either the kids from the private schools...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It was like a machine which churns out Cambridge students or whatever.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Ivy Leagues. And it always seemed like it just... I don't know. It always seemed like such a weird mythical place almost sort of like it's so expensive. How the fuck do you like... You know, it's like more than like... At the time, I think tuition was like more than Cambridge.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: Yeah (inaudible at 00:00:47)
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: It was like...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:00:53) high school student putting in a lot more than a college. Anyway, yeah. [00:00:57]
CLIENT: Yeah. And it just... I don't know. It just seemed like it was a place where some people around me had gone but like no one I was friends with or really knew had gone there.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: It was kind of all weird. (PAUSE) And so most of the roommates (inaudible a t00:01:29) I was like, "Well, I don't know how you got in because (LAUGHTER) you aren't that great."
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLEINT: Which was also part of what made it very weird. So I was like, "Oh yeah..."
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Like your parents paid for you to get in, in a weird way.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: So, you know, post college I discovered that I did in fact get in to those schools. In fact, two people I know went to them and they were long since getting in trouble sort of. [00:02:03]
THERAPIST: When you were in high school?
CLIENT: Yeah. When we were in high school. I'm like, "What?" (PAUSE) So like that kind was weird. It feels like (inaudible at 00:02:17) for whatever reason. So that, you know, the other day that some librarians were coming to visit Cambridge and the person who was sort of arranging the visit wanted to know if I could meet with these people to talk to them about my job or talking about what I do. And I was like, "Wait. What?" Because I just said just like, "Why are they coming here at college? They're not a school... This is weird." Also like my next question was like, "What do you think it is that I do?" because like I have no idea what they want me to talk about. [00:03:05]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Which (inaudible at 00:03:15) a lot of people have no idea what I do and they sort of like go, "I don't know. Stuff." And sometimes it's (inaudible at 00:03:31) they don't recognize what I do do and I'm just like, "Alright." And so I was going back and forth with like the executive assistant organizing a visit. It just seems... I feel super nervous about it because they're coming because they want... They're going to rebuild or redo part of their library and they have a sack of money and they want to see like, you know, "What is Cambridge doing since (inaudible at 00:04:07) [00:04:09]
And I feel like what I think students want versus what people want to show off are not necessarily the same thing in many ways and... (PAUSE) Like I don't want to... I don't feel this would be a great time to like undermine what... Like if they just said they come and they toured (inaudible at 00:04:51) where I work and they go to some fancy lunch and then they're going to come and talk with me and meet our librarians. [00:04:59]
And I'm just kind of terrified of them asking me, "So isn't this thing so awesome?" And me kind of being like, "Uhhh... Like..." If like (inaudible at 00:05:19)
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: ...is going on about how everyone feels so awesome, it's sort of uncomfortable to know what to say (PAUSE) and I don't... Like I think I'll ask them what they want me to talk about because I think that will be more efficient unless I get a really bad answer. But the other people who they invited to talk is the building administrator (inaudible at 00:05:55) book the rooms. So I'm not sure why she's... [00:06:03]
It all feels very fake and like someone basically said, "Technology" and kind of throwing things at the wall to see if it sticks and... (PAUSE) I don't know. (PAUSE) And there's always like... So one of my coworkers says it's kind of a... It's difficult because she comes off as kind of a kook. She has... She has tendonitis. She's very sensitive to high pitched noises. Fluorescent lights really hurt her eyes. She has like forty bazillion like allergies and like all this stuff. [00:07:01]
And she finally said like digital noise can be very painful to her ears and what's difficult is I completely believe her that she's experiencing this discomfort...
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: ...and it's hard. But she won't... So she won't document it as disability in the office because she feels it will be used against her. But that also means that I can't like... (PAUSE) I can't... Like neither I nor she can say, "Well, you have to have this thing because your condition like... You need a special monitor or you need an analog type digital phone," or whatever. [00:07:57]
And so, in her office, she... You know, there like a big table and a cubical spilt across the middle. She has to share it with someone else. And so she's built, around her cube, she took like black phone cord and kind of made like a structure all around it. (inaudible at 00:08:17) two by fours that are kind like walls and there's this black foam board over her desk and around the sides so that she doesn't get fluorescent light or touch sunlight and it looks crazy. Like it just says like a crazy person. And I'm like, "This is really difficult because I get what you're doing but this looks really nuts." And like she covers every single like, like the printer on light has paper over it so it's not shining and she never wants to upgrade anything because she's like, It's going to hurt my eyes. It's difficult." And I'm like, "Sure. But I can't do anything about it." [00:09:07]
(inaudible at 00:09:11) about how a bottle of water isn't pH neutral and that she's just very sensitive to the taste. I'm like, "Sure. But wow." And one of my friend made the comment that she's so in it in her head that she can't see how it looks from the outside. So like she can't... Like she just can't see why building a shade structure in her office looks crazy or she got to the office today and Karl (ph) had asked her to get a laptop and type notes laptop wide during a meeting and they would be printed on the screen. [00:10:11]
And she's like, "I just don't know. I can't use this laptop. I haven't practice with it." And she's really freaked out about it and I offered to do it for her and he said since I was a manager I couldn't.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Chet (ph) volunteered and we started talking about it. And when she left, he was like, "Why does she need to practice on a laptop? It's just a computer. She uses a computer." I'm like, "Yeah. But, you know, her laptop's different. The keyboard is different and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." But basically Chet couldn't hear any of that because all he was was like, "She's crazy."
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Because she's freaked out and I do understand that he's saying, "A computer is a computer." Except that actually a lot of people have a hard time with Mac keys because they're flat. A lot of people have a hard time typing on that. [00:11:07]
Like some people just say they don't like Macs because they can't type well on them. Like, your basic keyboard has more responsiveness than laptop keyboard has more (inaudible at 00:11:21)
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:11:23)
CLIENT: Yeah and like smaller keyboard...
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.
CLIENT: And obviously I thought it was kind of unfair of her, Karl (ph) to ask her to do sometime that she couldn't really do. You know? I don't know. So the idea of being like so in it that you can't see from the outside how you look or act...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: ...was making me feel a little bit about how sometimes I feel when I talk, when I talk to someone about like dealing with like the various (inaudible at 00:12:05) that frustrate me or the various things that frustrate me. [00:12:09]
And also more generally like talking about my (inaudible at 00:12:25) Like I get that he doesn't really work in my building anymore. But like it's still... He's still at Cambridge. It's still very stressful, a very stressful thing and I'm like... And I think about more than a solution is like someone to say like, "That happened and it's crappy."
THERAPIST: Right. [00:12:53]
CLIENT: I'm pretty sure that's why I like, I would like someone to (inaudible at 00:12:55) But I also worry that like in terms of technology like I'm so in it that I sound unreasonable to just like I can't, I guess, like, I don't know, get another perspective on it. And, I mean, part of it is also like despite using technology a lot, I know that how I use it is not the same as like how an eighteen year old does. Like my experiences with using a computer in college are different from theirs and how I use a laptop now is different than they do. There's all these things. Like students are really obsessed with printing. I don't print anything really. But they all print their papers and turn it in. And like every student... [00:14:03]
It's funny because that is... The thing the students will complain about the most are order more printers, more outlets, and the wireless is basically all they talk about. They're just like, "What? I don't care. I have a laptop. Can I print?"
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Sorry. (inaudible at 00:14:31)
CLIENT: Yeah. I understand that's not rude but that's actually what they want the most and if you build something that looks amazing but doesn't have enough outlets and the wifi is crappy, they're going to be pissed.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: And then also, always, "How do I print from this?" I'm like (inaudible at 00:14:57) The students are always bitching about, "Why can't we print from them?" [00:15:01]
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CLIENT: So there's that and then there's just sort of the (PAUSE) I don't wear like (inaudible at 00:15:31) crazy thinking about technology, blah, blah, blah. But (PAUSE) honestly I feel like a lot of what is awesome to people using the library is kind of boring. Like the students love using whiteboard to block off space. We have a ton of them. [00:16:05]
THERAPIST: Oh, you mean like to...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:16:07)
CLIENT: Yeah. Screens. And sometimes they rent them and sometimes they don't. And we do expect that and they really also want to be able to easily make a circle or U with the tables and have enough outlets for everyone. And also like... What I did there was like you can't have enough outlets for your laptops and your phone and your other things. So really it's kind of like, number of students times three outlets is what you want. And then there's a sort of like people seems to respond better to kind of homier spaces but a lot of futuristic design is shiny chrome which is not very warm.
THERAPIST: I see. [00:17:09]
CLIENT: Like the Apple store looks really cool.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: But to me, I'm like, "This just doesn't feel like homey."
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: No one would want to hang out here necessarily.
THERAPIST: Which is kind of what you want to do in a library.
CLIENT: Mm hmm. Yeah and there's all the sudden this weird push to remove books from libraries which also freaks...
THERAPIST: (PAUSE)
CLIENT: And...
THERAPIST: It's just the irony.
CLIENT: I know. It's crazy. (inaudible at 00:17:51) I'm like, "But we're here right now." And as it turns out, most people who are in the library want to have books around then even if they don't use them.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) [00:18:07]
CLIENT: Like that's the thing that really intrigues me is that even if like they don't really care if... It's the idea of the books and also I think it's like more books makes it more homey. But also it's like I want to be surrounded by things that look and feel...
THERAPIST: Like a library.
CLIENT: Yes. Yeah. So I don't know. Like... (PAUSE) I guess I feel like I'm part... It's as if it's going to be another opportunity to get ignored or talked down or... [00:19:09]
THERAPIST: Yeah. It also sounds like you're worried about seeming off the deep end.
CLIENT: Yeah. And... (SIGH) (PAUSE) I guess it's part of what I'm worried about seems off the deep end is that (SIGH) (PAUSE) I feel like there's this level of this not like... I have no sense of like where people in the room are going to be in terms of do you know what technology does. [00:20:07]
And so that effects, in part, how things sound because I know I've had people here that what they hear me saying is, "We should buy... Technology isn't relevant or smartphones aren't important." No they totally are but they're maybe not used in the way that you think or maybe more effort should go into this than this.
THERAPIST: Right. Like what you're saying about the outlets and they whiteboards and the tables that can be moved into different shapes and the comfortable places to sit. It's not that like... (inaudible at 00:21:15) or maybe not up on what the technology sort of the options of what's out there. [00:21:25]
CLIENT: Right. Yeah and it feels really weird when people perceive me as a Luddite because I'm like, "No. You don't understand."
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I've gotten that more than once and it's really... (PAUSE) It's just... It's so... It just feels so strange because I'm like I don't understand how you got... Like how did we get here?
THERAPIST: Right? [00:21:59]
CLIENT: And sort of the being an agent of change or whatever, whatever, which is one of the library buzzwords.
THERAPIST: Being an agent of change?
CLIENT: Yes. If you (inaudible at 00:22:25) blocking change and if you don't like (inaudible at 00:22:35) then you're blocking change...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: ...and you're resisting (inaudible at 00:22:41) if you kind of, I don't know, do the thing anyway then you are an agent of change or if you...
THERAPIST: Like the justification that change is always good. [00:23:01]
CLIENT: Yes. Change is always good and that if that (inaudible at 00:23:09) could not go well.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I couldn't imagine (PAUSE) what... One of the things that occurs to me as far as how you're concerned about how you're perceived is like I wonder why you don't think to say like, "And here are the twelve technologies that, you know, people often think about for libraries and this is what happens when you put those in front of undergraduates and actually, as it turns out, what really matters is the undergraduates, ironically enough, is these things over here." Do you know what I mean? Like... [00:24:07]
CLIENT: So when I've done that...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And the response has just been, "That's not true." And then I'm like, "Oh." Like I remember like I had a coworker that's... It happened to me most intensely with Karl where he's like... I'm like, "Well, you know, in seeing the undergrads, like I've (inaudible at 00:24:35) they don't really seem interested in this but they are interested in this other thing."
THERAPIST: Right (inaudible at 00:24:41)
CLIENT: Like they don't like QR codes. He's like, "No, they love them." But they don't.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: They don't even see how a QR code works so it's awkward that you're telling them...
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:24:55)
CLIENT: So the thing that almost no one seems to grasp is you have to install QR code software on your phone and not everyone wants to.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:25:03]
CLIENT: And like the QR code that replicates the sign you're looking at is really weird. Like if you're looking at a directional sign and you can scan the QR code and put it on your phone (inaudible at 00:25:27)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Right.
CLIENT: ...which would be faster.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Or anything else. You know?
THERAPIST: I see. Yeah. It would be easier than an ad. It's different because then you could see like a little video about whatever it is that...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Or like some... I guess it's just like, "Take a left."
CLIENT: Yeah. And it's weird. And so... Or like I've tried. Like Karl says, "No," and then continues on his own, "But actually this." [00:26:03]
Like he feels very... I feel like I'm saying the sky is blue because I looked out the window and someone is saying, "Nope."
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And... (PAUSE) Yeah. Like...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's just one of those weird things because I get, whenever I have that conversation with someone, I'm always just like... I get this thing where I'm like, "But I explained my comment (inaudible at 00:26:55) and you just said, 'no.'"
THERAPIST: Right. [00:26:57]
CLIENT: Like it's not...
THERAPIST: Right. Like you get to have your own opinion but you get to say no to like a hypothesis or like not so much to a factual statement or observation.
CLIENT: Yeah. Right and one of the big ones that drives me crazy is, "Well, students can just sit down and sort out things."
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Like they need instructions sometimes. Like telling... It's one thing for students to sit down and hook up something and play a video or how to like work the DVD but if you tell them, you need to make a seven minute movie with (inaudible at 00:27:45) you film yourself and edit it in iMovie, they actually need to be told how to do that. And so there's this weird like (inaudible at 00:27:59) [00:28:05]
But there are other things where they can't.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And there's definitely like the stereotype, "Well, they're Cambridge students. They'll figure it out." No. Or maybe they will but we could have saved them a lot of irritation by explaining it.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Yeah. You're constantly dealing with people (inaudible at 00:28:37) really have no idea what they're talking about. I mean, for example, like being able to distinguish the sort of technology that students can just pick up. It's one thing to say, you know... [00:28:59]
CLIENT: Like if it was just using and iPad, they'd be fine.
THERAPIST Right. Or... And another thing you have to like more specialized software...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Or something like that. (inaudible at 00:29:21) the way that like so persistently the staff you're describing really have no idea what they're talking about but think they do and don't listen to your like explanations or observations about what they don't know. [00:29:53]
CLIENT: I think part of it is that I can't... Like I don't know if I can't. I'm not seen as being an authority in the stuff that I do. Like I feel like if someone, if one of the, I don't know, the data librarians was like, "Yeah, a data program doesn't work or are students are wanting to use this data program," people would be, "Okay. That sounds... Sure."
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But when I say it, "Oh yeah, students are wanting more of this thing," that's also something I'm very specialized in, I don't have authority.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And some of it just comes from like I'm the person that uses X the most so I'm more likely to notice problems because having a sort of (inaudible at 00:31:09) [00:31:11]
I was talking to someone about how a particular thing was buggy and he was like, "Well, I've never experienced..."
THERAPIST: In the software?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: It was like another software interface. I was like, "Okay. So I get that you've never experienced it and that you've had it be reliable but like you use it three times a semester and I'm interacting with it every few weeks. So I just see more bugs because I'm just using it more." And it may be that the decision is it's good enough and that's fine. But I'm still seeing the problem.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:31:55]
CLIENT: The problem is still there. It may be that it just doesn't, you don't care enough about it which I'm also okay with. Like... I just also... I guess part of it is that... Like I'm okay with a lot of things if it sounds like the person heard what I said, like they just made the decision even if I think it's dumb (inaudible at 00:32:37) Like he made the decision that it's okay to send something buggy out (inaudible at 00:32:43) But it's super frustrating when someone just said it doesn't happen.
THERAPIST: Right. Sure. [00:32:53]
CLIENT: When I do computer support, I try really hard to not tell people that because I think it's insulting and... (PAUSE) ...I guess I would like that back a little bit. (PAUSE) Yeah. So I feel like just to the extent where I guess definitely with Chet and Karl I've done all the things I know to try to communicate. I rephrase everything like... And then I just feel like, "Okay. So we're... We're just speaking differently." [00:34:05]
(inaudible at 00:34:07) video editing because he (inaudible at 00:34:17) I think that this already exists in it's finalized form. And he was like, "Oh yeah. It does. I just wanted to practice." And I was furious and I felt really insulted that...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I was just completely pissed off and he seemed to think I was completely... that's really frustrating or like, you know...
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.
CLIENT: And he was like, "No, what. That's just..." It was very weird because I..." Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I get confused about what to make of the like uncanny and very large group of people with which this happened to you which it clearly does but (inaudible at 00:35:15) I just... I don't know what to make of it. I mean, you make a very clear point to me. It's not hard to see why you'd be very frustrated with him and doubly so when he doesn't seem to register in any way what you said. (inaudible at 00:35:57) We probably wouldn't even be talking about it if he'd said, "You know, I can understand that you're frustrated because I had you do this without asking you if you needed to do it or without telling you this is what I need you to do."
CLIENT: Right. [00:36:01]
THERAPIST: "But I disagree and I think that's perfectly fine to do." That would have sucked but actually less in a way I would think.
CLIENT: I think why I bring it up is that like in terms of happening...
THERAPIST: I know why you bring it up. It's (inaudible at 00:36:23)
CLIENT: Yeah and part of it is that usually I'm like, "Okay." Like not too many people (inaudible at 00:36:37) we have this conflict but then we work it out.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Like you can communicate stuff like that.
(CROSSTALK)
CLIENT: And so to me it feels just so striking when I hit that wall... I don't know. Like...
(PAUSE) [00:37:00]
THERAPIST: I see. Like maybe part of what you want from me is help dealing with... I mean, it would be good if I had some explanation for it but I don't think you really expect that which is how you... I won't so...
(CROSSTALK)
THERAPIST: It seems more like, yeah, like you kind of (inaudible at 00:37:39) I also suspect maybe more so than you sometimes sort of say specifically is that this sort of thing is quite disturbing and I think you like understandably want some help with that. [00:38:01]
I mean, at least the experience of having somebody not at all take in what you say and sort of immediately but completely frustrate your, you know, terribly sort of considerable efforts to like bridge the gap, rephrase, use different words, you know, whatever. I can imagine it's actually pretty disturbing.
CLIENT: It is. I mean, sometimes it...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:38:47) but sometimes it feels a little bit like that.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Like especially when it's been like I assume it's happened and someone says no because then... I just really don't get... [00:39:07]
Like, yeah, if you're going to sweep away the opinion (inaudible at 00:39:15) The other thing I think is (SIGH)... I don't know. It's like not just having a really open and honest conversation. Like I am totally okay with socializing is faking it. Like yeah. Whatever. (PAUSE) I guess it's just like (inaudible at 00:39:53) or making anything easier. [00:40:01]
Because I feel like, you know, whatever. I give way to a lot of people to make things easier.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I'm not (inaudible at 00:40:13) I know this is stupid but you just have to do it. Like it feels more deeply dishonest or delusional. Not delusional but it feels dishonest in ways that like socialized things in my life don't.
THERAPIST: Sure. I mean, I think it seems to me to be a very big part of it is the other person does not get what you're saying.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...and frustrates your efforts to fix that. [00:41:03]
CLIENT: I think also not only do they not get what I'm saying...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: ...they don't seem to like grasp that they're not getting what I'm saying.
THERAPIST: Right. Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Right. And I follow like, you know, the sort of, you know, at times emptiness and social niceties is one thing. But like the (inaudible at 00:41:37) is quite different.
CLIENT: Yeah. I also feel like we're already doing (inaudible at 00:41:47) We all know what we're doing.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: Like I don't know. Like...
THERAPIST: I'm asking how you're doing but I don't really expect to get an answer in a serious way.
CLIENT: Right. Like you're saying, "I'm fine. Thanks." Or you're like, "Oh, I'm having a rough morning but it's pretty..." You're not going to really answer. You're not going to say, "My mother is dying of cancer..."
THERAPIST: Right. [00:42:05]
CLIENT: ...out of nowhere. And like all of that is, you know, that's fine and if someone else says, "Well, I'm doing this because I'm the boss and that's why..."
(CROSSTALK)
THERAPIST: I'm sorry. Are you saying partly you're worried it is something to do with you? Other words, like... I'm jumping ahead a little bit of your point on social niceties. But are you trying to say like, "See look. Social niceties... I'm fine. So it's not me with this other thing." Which I don't think it actually is but I could imagine you might be worried somehow it is if that makes sense.
CLIENT: Sort of, I think. [00:42:57]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It's partially just sort of (SIGH) I guess I (inaudible at 00:43:11) blunt honesty at all times which (inaudible at 00:43:19) You know, whatever.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Because there are certain times of like, you know, dishonest behaviors that no one really cares about. But then I feel like there are... I feel like social niceties are kind of honesty and dishonesty. Like...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And if someone says, "Because I'm the boss, that's why." Okay. Like I always thinks that's an acceptable answer.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:44:01]
THERAPIST: Right. [00:44:03]
CLIENT: I will accept it. And I guess I feel like part of, I don't know, respecting other (inaudible at 00:44:25) a level of honesty that I'm not getting.
THERAPIST: Yeah. We should stop.
CLIENT: Okay. And so not Thursday but Tuesday.
THERAPIST: Right. (inaudible at 00:44:41) Okay. Great.
CLIENT: Okay. Thank you.
THERAPIST: Sure.
END TRANSCRIPT
