TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Where do we start today?

CLIENT: (sighs)

THERAPIST: What a big sigh.

CLIENT: (laughs) I've been so exhausted this past week and I've been wondering if it has anything to do with Pat's situation.

THERAPIST: Exhausted and sleeping or not sleeping?

CLIENT: And sleeping, yeah. And sleeping.

THERAPIST: Where are you in your menstrual cycle because I know that's affected you in the past?

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I don't really know any more if this is the right week for that. It could be.

THERAPIST: So it's one thing to sort of just keep in mind and track to give yourself some answers, if that's it.

CLIENT: I know. I really want to deal with that at some point because it's been up and down, up and down every month, and it usually would level out at some point. It's at least increased ever since I went on the pill. I've never had exhaustion for months and months and months or a week of... [00:01:06]

THERAPIST: And you have or you haven't each month?

CLIENT: I have. Yes. I don't know if it's real exhaustion. Like last Saturday, Pat was gone which was great. I just ended up doing nothing all day, but it was really great. I was also just feeling really tired and just not wanting to do anything else. Maybe it's just the weather.

THERAPIST: It has been quite humid all week, which does make it harder.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I went for a two-hour bike ride with my friends Sunday, so that was fine. (laughs)

THERAPIST: That's not quite exhausted. You may be exhausted after the two-hour bike ride, but you were able to do that. Did you enjoy it?

CLIENT: Yeah. I did enjoy it.

THERAPIST: So when you say you've been exhausted, what's actually been happening during the week for you? [00:02:05]

CLIENT: I don't know. I guess I just haven't been wanting to do anything. I just want to lie around.

THERAPIST: Are you doing stuff even though you don't want to? Like are you getting up and going to work?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You just don't want to? But you can make yourself do it?

CLIENT: Yes. It's just a weird way to feel, I guess.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you're kind of dreading the day?

CLIENT: Yeah, I guess I'm just dreading lately.

THERAPIST: How is stuff with you and Josh? I know we spent a lot of time talking about that last time, what he needs from you and how much of an impact it is on your ability to plan your day?

CLIENT: I came home and said all the same things to him and he was like, "What are you talking about? You can do whatever you need." I guess when he is in a good place, he doesn't take it so seriously either. He told me he was over it. I told him how sad I was about the party and him not talking with my friends and how he's feeling about all that and he's like, "I'm over it. I'm fine." [00:03:19]

THERAPIST: What does that mean that he's over it? If you were to go to a party tomorrow would he talk to people?

CLIENT: That's what he said. I don't know. (sniggers)

THERAPIST: Do you trust that?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: That's a big difference.

CLIENT: But we're going to my parents' friends. He loves the beach and he's so excited to hang out.

THERAPIST: How do you feel?

CLIENT: I'd rather go and hang out with my friends than my parents' friends (chuckles), but the beach. It's fun. In fact, I actually asked him if he would come out and watch fireworks with my friends later and he didn't really want to, so I guess he still doesn't want...

THERAPIST: So what he says and what he's doing don't really match up. [00:04:01]

CLIENT: He did tell me that I could tell them whatever I wanted, even if it was that he was feeling down about grad school, so that was good.

THERAPIST: Did that help to sort of have that freedom to talk with friends?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (pause) He's been in a bizarrely happy he's super up and down, too. We both are. He's been really upset about this thing with his mom, too.

THERAPIST: Upset in the same ways that you are? What's upsetting?

CLIENT: I understand it less and less as it continues. He had said to her, "Look, I want you to take Diana (sp?) out to talk and I don't think that you should commute an hour." [00:05:00] Unfortunately if she wants to pay what she wants to pay, she's going to have to commute an hour. For some reason she took what he said as law and turned down this apartment, which is like an hour commute away, and then was furious at Josh for saying those things to her. I had a really awkward conversation with her because she was fuming when I got home, which was really uncomfortable. I was like, "What's going on?" She was like, "I'm just so mad at Joshua." Okay. All I have to say is, "What happened?" and she tells me everything. She was furious with him for saying that she should do this and she should do that. I was like, "Well why are you listening to him"? Like my mom would just make her own decision and say, "No, I think this is the right thing I should do. Thanks for your opinion." She just doesn't want to hurt his feelings. [00:05:58] I don't even know why she wants to do what he says. And then she gets really upset because it doesn't work for her but she can't make the decision to not. (sighs) Actually, ever since that conversation if I see her she says some weird, awkward thing about some apartment or another that didn't work out. It's just tension, so much tension.

THERAPIST: The tension is worse.

CLIENT: Yeah, because the conversation I had with her I tried to be nice about it but it was really awkward. I was like, "I don't understand why you're making these decisions and why you're mad."

THERAPIST: Was she able to explain herself at all?

CLIENT: She says that's not the way she does things and she doesn't want to create bad feelings. She kept saying something about not wanting to create bad feelings. [That was a big extent of the emotion, getting all stressed] (ph?) She said she knew Josh wanted her around to check up on her. I don't know. [00:07:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, so the tension is really high and I'm sure it's hard to live in that environment day after day with all that tension that you're all sort of walking around. I wonder how that impacts your feeling of dread or not wanting to get going or feeling like you're dragging. It's a lot to wade through all that tension.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It seems like you experience things somatically in your body and that stress... I think one of the reasons is that sometimes it comes out as not being able to sleep, sometimes it comes out as feeling really exhausted. This is your body's way of saying that you feel pretty overwhelmed with the environment that you're living in right now.

CLIENT: I always take things too seriously.

THERAPIST: What do you mean you're taking it too seriously? [00:07:57]

CLIENT: Or I think things are going to be so serious with Josh and then he decides that he's over whatever was bothering him.

THERAPIST: But you don't really believe him about that.

CLIENT: Whatever mood he was in, he's come out of it. Maybe he still feels that way but...

THERAPIST: It sounds like you'd feel more secure if you thought that the mood wasn't going to come back, if it wasn't shifting.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't think he'll ever decide that he's so proud of what he's doing that he just wants to tell everyone. That would be great. Maybe someday. I don't just expect him to change in a second, but to not be so ashamed that he doesn't want to go out. I don't know.

THERAPIST: It would feel nice if he could feel proud of it. And you could feel proud of him, too. They would match.

CLIENT: (chuckles) I am proud of him. I guess I don't really know what to say to him or how to help him, which is maybe hard for him.

THERAPIST: Would he relieve you if he said, "I think what you're doing is great." [00:09:01]

CLIENT: I told him that.

THERAPIST: And what happens?

CLIENT: He says, "No, no. I'm a failure."

THERAPIST: So he can't accept the compliment.

CLIENT: He gets it all the time. He has a lot of success with the people he works with who tell him how great he is.

THERAPIST: And it doesn't work, huh?

CLIENT: I don't know. I mean it works in the little space that we have, I guess. He got a huge tip the other day from this customer who just bought ten bikes from him and just loves him so much. He's really, really happy.

THERAPIST: That's a lot of bikes.

CLIENT: The owner of the gym that we go to bought a bike from him and he fit him and he comes and talks to him like he's a bike expert all the time. He gets free massages now because his massage therapist is a cyclist and wants to do fits for him. People treat him with respect and want what he does. [00:10:00]

THERAPIST: Clearly he's very successful at it. He's made great connections, it sounds like.

CLIENT: Yeah, but he can't seem to translate that into anything else. If he did that same thing in any other pursuit, he just has no confidence or something.

THERAPIST: I wonder what makes him think that doing it in this pursuit isn't good enough. It sounds like he's got valuable experience and knowledge in this area and people like it.

CLIENT: It could have something to do with the fact that his best friend has got a physics PhD. He always competes with his best friend more than me; way more than me.

THERAPIST: His girlfriend is doing that, too.

CLIENT: What am I doing?

THERAPIST: Getting a PhD. (laughs)

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I know he loves me, but he really loves this guy. (laughs) He really, really, really. He's so attached to him. If I said we were going to move in next door he'd be really, really happy. He told me when I say that maybe he should get new friends, he already has a friend. [00:11:13]

THERAPIST: He wouldn't have to give up one for the other.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Let's focus on how you're doing because I feel like we're focusing on how Josh is doing. They're related, but they're not exactly the same thing.

CLIENT: I'm kind of just sort of tired and unmotivated and unexcited by things, but I can never trust if that's real or not real. It least if it lasts for more than a week, then maybe it is.

THERAPIST: What would qualify it as real?

CLIENT: If it lasted longer than a week. (sniggers)

THERAPIST: So what makes it not real this week? If it's just this week, what makes it not real? [00:12:02]

CLIENT: Maybe it's just drug-induced and I could snap out of it with this bike ride if I just gave myself to it.

THERAPIST: It seems like your feeling are real to me. Does that mean that we diagnose it as depression? No, not one week especially since you're able to accomplish some of the things that you're able to accomplish. You're able to go on the bike ride. You're getting to school, so it's not meeting criteria for a depressive episode, but it's still real because you're feeling it and it doesn't feel good.

CLIENT: No, I mean I usually like to talk to other people. But all I really want to talk about is this and it's exhausting, so I don't really want to talk to other people, I guess.

THERAPIST: Exhausting for you? Exhausting for them? [00:12:58]

CLIENT: I don't know if it's exhausting for them.

THERAPIST: But it does feel exhausting for you?

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: So what are you not saying to people for fear that it will be exhausting?

CLIENT: Well I mean they all know about the whole situation. I brought my dog in to work today to keep me company. My friend wanted to come visit him all day and talk about how she's suing her landlord because they wouldn't give back her security deposit. They live halfway across the country and are doing really terrible things for a landlord to do. She just wants to talk about it over and over and over. I can't handle it. It's too much energy to handle it. [00:14:02]

THERAPIST: It's a lot of negative energy.

CLIENT: She asked me what I was doing and I've got lots of stress, too, and she asked me what it was about and I told her.

THERAPIST: How did it feel to talk about it?

CLIENT: She's not really the best person to talk about it with. (chuckles) I guess I don't really have anyone who's really helpful to talk about it with.

THERAPIST: What would feel helpful? What are you looking for from people?

CLIENT: Any kind of response that's sympathetic or anything.

THERAPIST: What did you get from her instead?

CLIENT: Just like a, "Oh, that stinks," reaction.

THERAPIST: So not at a lot of sympathy.

CLIENT: Nothing, really. I don't know. I'm not really explaining this very well.

THERAPIST: You're explaining it just fine, but that doesn't mean we're not going to dig deeper. What would feel like better sympathy? [00:15:06]

CLIENT: When I was working and sneaking around going to visit colleges and not telling anyone what was going on and starting to date Josh and was really stressed out, I had two good friends at work who I usually told everything to. I wasn't going to tell them about quitting my job because one of them I worked for. This is when I stopped sleeping for the first time because the whole thing was just way too much.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it was a lot.

CLIENT: So then I eventually told the two of them and they were super happy for me. One of them told me that she's been on antidepressants for the past ten years. They both told me how hard moving was for them in their lives and how hard life is. I don't know. They were just perfect.

THERAPIST: That felt really good?

CLIENT: Yeah. They were super understanding and helpful. [00:15:57]

THERAPIST: So it sounds like they did a combination of things. They empathized with you and they also opened up in the same way. They disclosed what was going on in their own lives because you finally disclosed what was going on in yours. It sounds like you didn't get that back when you talked today with that friend. You got a little bit of support and an "Oh, that sucks," but she didn't really empathize.

CLIENT: I guess I was friends with the girls at work for years before that.

THERAPIST: So you had a really good, established base.

CLIENT: Yeah, which didn't start with that kind of a...

THERAPIST: It does seem like the girl at work currently disclosed all sorts of stuff. You said she was talking about the stresses that she feels, but it didn't feel good in the same way that it did with your other friends. I wonder what made it different. [00:16:57]

CLIENT: I don't know. We've mostly just been friends through classes and been doing work together.

THERAPIST: So you just don't feel that same intimacy with her that you did with her work friends?

CLIENT: That's probably just too much to ask for or hope for from someone that you mostly just did class projects with. It was maybe just too much.

THERAPIST: Does it feel like it's too much when she asks it of you? She kept coming over and seeing your dog and talking.

CLIENT: Yeah, actually it was too much.

THERAPIST: So I wonder if that's what stopped it from feeling good for you, too, was that she had already asked for so much of you that it would have taken a lot to kind of get that back.

CLIENT: This was about the hundredth time we talked about her stupid landlord. I really feel like I can't take it any more. Maybe people feel the same way about me and Josh's mom. I don't know. [00:17:56]

THERAPIST: It's sometimes hard to be in the position of not knowing how to help, but if people know what it is they can do for you then it can feel good to be able to do that for someone. If people know what you really want is some empathy, just to imagine what it's like for you and be able to reflect that... Is there anyone who can do that for you?

CLIENT: No, not really. Those two girls at work, but I've lost touch with them which is too bad. In fact, I've been feeling really, really guilty lately because one of them when I last left during really crazy marital problems, I stopped talking to her because it's impossible to talk to her on the phone because she's so busy. I just got an announcement that she had a baby out of the blue after not hearing from her for a year, so I'm feeling really guilty that I haven't been in touch with her. [00:19:12]

THERAPIST: It might be a good opportunity to get back in touch.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's been so long I don't know what to say. I hope things are really good (laughs) because that's what they wanted or were hoping to want or something. (pause) It also [...] (inaudible at 00:19:35) a little bit more from being able to call her up and be like, "Oh, no. I have so many problems. Can we talk about it?"

THERAPIST: Well you have mother in law problems, which she may be familiar with.

CLIENT: Yes, she is. (sniggers) Her mother in law is pushing her to have kids. [00:19:52]

THERAPIST: Well, she won. (laughs) I wonder if reaching back out would feel good for both of you. It sounds like you miss the presence of those two women in your life.

CLIENT: I don't know why I can't seem to find somebody who can be a real friend, I guess.

THERAPIST: Yeah, someone to really relate to. What gets in the way with people here?

CLIENT: I don't know. I ask Josh this sometimes and he's like, "Well, it's probably because you work with them all." Obviously, I've worked with them before. Maybe it's school instead of work? I don't know. (pause) I have no idea. I wish that I knew.

THERAPIST: What are their relationships like with one another? Are other people close in the lab? [00:20:59]

CLIENT: (pause) I don't know. Yeah, they are.

THERAPIST: So it feels something distinctly about how you relate to the other people rather than just the environment in the lab?

CLIENT: I guess. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I don't know. I'm not there.

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't know about other people's friendships and how close they are, I guess.

THERAPIST: It's hard to know exactly. You take your cues from what you see people doing. What were your relationships like at other points in your life? What was it like in high school? What was it like in college?

CLIENT: I've always had one or two really close friends. I'm not so great with the casual friends, obviously. I have trouble. I'm not sure why. I'm always wanting to have this close... [00:21:53]

THERAPIST: So more intensity? That's pretty common. People tend to either be somewhere on the spectrum of wanting either a few or close friends or feeling more comfortable in a big group and having lots of people around. There's nothing wrong with having a few close friends rather than feeling like you want to have this huge social network of 754 basic friends.

CLIENT: Maybe that's what it's like at school because everyone wants to do everything in groups and everything is more casual. I don't know why.

THERAPIST: Sometimes that sort of temporariness of school kind of gets in the way of that and people are quite focused on their research. Some people don't really feel like they're putting down roots here and you're a little bit different, in that you've been away, you're back, you do have family in the area, you're living with your partner. [00:22:53]

CLIENT: Yeah, and all of that drives me crazy. People think I'm really strange when I go over to my parents' for dinner or that I have my own apartment. (chuckles) So many people are searching for people to date. I feel like I can't talk about Josh as much. I just don't want to, which is not everybody, but most people.

THERAPIST: It kind of sets you apart a little bit from a lot of your peers right now.

CLIENT: Maybe that's just in my head. (chuckles) I just think about all this stuff way too much.

THERAPIST: And end up silencing yourself.

CLIENT: Or read into the responses too much maybe. I don't know if I edit. I probably say too much and then worry that I shouldn't have a little bit.

THERAPIST: What makes you think you should edit? What kind of responses are you reading into?

CLIENT: When I don't get a response that makes me think they understand (sniggers) or care, I guess; then I feel like I said too much. [00:24:05]

THERAPIST: I wonder if it's not that you're saying too much, but that you say something without a lot of elaboration. When you talk in here you kind of say like, "Well this is how I feel," and that's it. I wonder if people need a little bit more background story or lead-in to kind of get a sense of how it is you want them to respond. I have leeway to ask lots of questions. You're not going to think I'm being too nosy or prying because of my job, but without sort of normal people getting some kind of cues about how you want them to respond, whether you're open to more questions, they might be fearful of prying and saying, "Tell me more." [00:25:03]

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe.

THERAPIST: Do you know how your style differs between how you tell me things and how you tell other people things?

CLIENT: Oh, it's the same. I've always sort of been embarrassed because I can't tell the fun stories because I just get to the point. (sniggers) I just can't. I can't not do that.

THERAPIST: You can't just not get to the point right away.

CLIENT: I have some people tell really fun stories, like all the little details leading up to...

THERAPIST: Setting the scene.

CLIENT: Right. I can't do that. I've never been able to. That's probably why I took science because I can't write things that are interesting.

THERAPIST: Like flowery. (laughs)

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: So you're in a bunch of non-flowery people having a conversation and you feel like you're not getting enough back and I'm wondering if they feel like they're not getting enough direction.

CLIENT: Maybe it is just all the same [...] (inaudible at 00:25:59) shouldn't be together. [00:26:02]

THERAPIST: So we're going to send you over to [...] (inaudible at 00:26:04). (laughs)

CLIENT: Yeah, that could be good.

THERAPIST: Let's practice. Let's play with how you approached what is the woman's name who we were talking about.

CLIENT: Mary (sp?)

THERAPIST: Mary. How did you introduce your topic to her? She came over and talked to your dog, told you about her thing and then how did you take your turn?

CLIENT: I guess the first time that she ever found out that Josh's mom was living with us was when she came over. I'm actually really not sure. I think it was when she came over and she said, "What's that other little room?" I was like, "That's where Josh's mom lives." Then there was a little discussion over she moved here and hasn't gotten a place yet. (sniggers) There you go. [00:26:57]

THERAPIST: Very short version of the story.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: So when was that?

CLIENT: Last July.

THERAPIST: That's when she first found out.

CLIENT: Oh when did she first find out? A couple of months ago.

THERAPIST: So she came over and saw the room. Josh's mom had been living there for about nine months at the time and this is the first that you mentioned of it to her.

CLIENT: Really, we'd just been classmates before.

THERAPIST: So there wasn't really occasion to talk about it?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So let's replay that scene and I want you to envision that you're one of those liberal arts students and set the scene for her. Give her a little bit more background of the character development of the mom and how she came to be where she is and why she's still there. "So what's that little room over there?"

CLIENT: It's all kind of intense stuff, though.

THERAPIST: That's true. [00:27:58]

CLIENT: I guess with Josh or people I really feel comfortable with I feel like I can be maybe a little too dramatic and it's okay; but I'm afraid of being too dramatic with other people.

THERAPIST: All right. Let's try out a couple of versions.

CLIENT: Of being too dramatic? (chuckles) Right now?

THERAPIST: Nothing bad is going to happen in here. I won't kick you out for being too dramatic.

CLIENT: I just feel so bad about saying anything bad about Josh or that his family is messed up and his mom went bankrupt and she has no credit so she can't get a place and she's been living with us and I don't know why she's still here and it's driving me crazy. It's awful, too, because when she first moved in it was fine. I barely saw her. She was gone most weekends. She took the trash out and the dogs out, so it seemed great. Then it got to a point where it was like, "Is she still here?" and then it sort of became a problem [...] (inaudible at 00:29:02) because it was getting ridiculous.

THERAPIST: Okay, so let's do the story again, timeline-wise. Start at the beginning of how she first came and how things were then, and then move to how they developed.

CLIENT: It's also embarrassing because I was sort of surprised by how angry I started to get with her. Things were fine, things were fine, and then I had my qualifying exams and I couldn't handle having to deal with her being there, being an uncomfortable presence, I guess. Then I started to freak out. I don't even know why I couldn't handle it. It was just too much. It surprised me. That keeps happening and I don't know why it's surprising still. I think I can handle all this stuff and I can't. That makes me feel like a bad person and I don't want to talk about it. I said she could stay and then all of a sudden I change my mind not all of a sudden. Many months later. [00:30:07]

THERAPIST: That's a big difference.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So if I'm your friend, I think I would hear that and say something along the lines of, "Wow. So she's been living here all this time and it's been driving you crazy for this long? How are you holding together. I never would have known."

CLIENT: I would tell her I'm not holding it together.

THERAPIST: "My God, I feel so bad for you."

CLIENT: I wish. That would be great. That would be perfect.

THERAPIST: That doesn't sound so unrealistic to me. That's seriously how I would respond to somebody who told me they felt like they were going crazy and not handling it and feeling bad that they're not handling it. I'd feel badly that they were stuck in that situation. [00:31:10]

CLIENT: Yeah. (sniggers) It makes me want to call my friend, Ella, the girl who just had the baby. I'm almost afraid of what I will find when I call her.

THERAPIST: What are you afraid of finding?

CLIENT: I hope that she just had the baby and everything is good and happy, I hope. I know if I said these things to her she would totally understand. Maybe I'll have to try that. I don't have high hopes for Mary. It's not the right friend. It's not going to happen. She just happened to be the one today. [00:31:56]

THERAPIST: Right. No, it doesn't sound like you guys have the base right now. But practicing being able to tell your story to newer people, it sounds like you've got a great history with the people from Washington, but they can't be it forever. You also want to be able to develop other new close friends closer to home.

CLIENT: It does really feel like this is something permanent, it's just like life for now. A lot of people are treating it as this temporary thing. It is really true. I bet that's where a lot of the problems come from. (sniggers) Everything from where I live to how I live, I'm just treating it like life.

THERAPIST: It is life for you. You won't be in grad school forever, but a lot of aspects of what's going on now are also aspects that will be carried on after grad school probably. [00:33:00]

CLIENT: Yep. I just don't believe that other people don't have problems.

THERAPIST: They do.

CLIENT: I don't know. I can't seem to get a response from people. (pause)

THERAPIST: I think letting yourself tell more, not just the summary points, you can model that for people and they may be able to give you back a little more of a description of what's going on in their lives, too. You give the summary, the main point, and you get that back; and it's not enough.

CLIENT: Maybe I should just meet other people somewhere else. It's just really hard, especially when I feel so [...] (inaudible at 00:33:57). [00:34:02]

THERAPIST: Is there anyone who seems worth trying with in your current circle?

CLIENT: No. (sniggers) There is one girl who's a post tech who I ride bikes with. Maybe.

THERAPIST: What makes you hesitant about her?

CLIENT: She's not here for much longer. When she moves she goes back to Europe, so that's pretty far. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Are there non-school people that you're interacting with? Other bike people? Are you taking any fun classes? [00:34:58]

CLIENT: Huh! No, not really. It really is a big problem. No. I have one or two college friends that I see really sporadically, basically never.

THERAPIST: Would you like to see them more?

CLIENT: It's just really difficult, just because their lives and schedules are so different. Maybe I should try. I had so much in Washington. I didn't have just these two grants, I had a book group, alums. I don't know. I had a whole bunch of people.

THERAPIST: It sounds like it was a better fit.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know if it's me because of this whole sleep problem and all these other things that have happened and I just can't...

THERAPIST: Well there's a period of time where you really shied away from things because everything felt like too much, but that's no longer the case and I wonder if you could start up some of those types of things again. [00:35:59]

CLIENT: Yeah, I had so much more energy in Washington to try things and do things. I can't seem to muster that up again, but I really need to.

THERAPIST: It might feel good to be able to focus on something other than what feels like it's going wrong.

CLIENT: Yep. I think if I could just find one good thing I feel like we've talked about this before like one good thing that's really supportive.

THERAPIST: It would feel like a world of difference.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't have anything right now.

THERAPIST: The things that come up over and over again, like the things that we've talked about before, tend to be important things. It's not a problem talking about it again. It's probably a signal that it's a really good idea and would probably make an impact on helping you feel more supported and maybe a place where it would feel safe to practice talking a little bit more, giving a little bit more detail in your conversations with people. It doesn't sound like it feels safe to try that out with people with whom you track now. [00:37:09]

CLIENT: I don't think if I would have found the right group of people it would be hard. I don't think. It's like a really huge problem.

THERAPIST: So bearing that in mind, what would you like your homework to be for this week?

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't know what the right thing to go after is. I'll somehow try to find something.

THERAPIST: What do you miss the most?

CLIENT: My book club. We don't really read books. It was a group of we just have monthly dinners, but everyone talked about everything, what they were reading and whatever.

THERAPIST: So maybe looking for some sort of dinner group or a book club in which books don't get read. There's also the idea of starting sort of a dinner club where you'd rotate houses and who cooks and get together and talk and eat. [00:38:01]

CLIENT: Yeah, I had my reunion a few months ago or a month ago and there are a whole bunch of alums that are my age and I contemplated starting a dinner club and then I just got exhausted.

THERAPIST: Do you still have the ability to connect with some of those alums?

CLIENT: Yeah, I do.

THERAPIST: I wonder if sending a message, "Hey, would anyone be interested in either starting a book club or starting a dinner club?" Put some feelers out there for either idea, perhaps, and see what kind of bites you get. Is that a reasonable step, you think?

CLIENT: Yeah. It would be nice to just join something.

THERAPIST: You can also certainly look around and see if there's something to do.

CLIENT: I'm sure I can bring myself to start something. Maybe next week. This week [...] (inaudible at 00:38:58).

THERAPIST: So then we'll make it sort of an assignment to do a google search of what kinds of stuff is available at school. [00:39:09]

CLIENT: Anywhere. It really needs to be on the weekends. The weekends are really killing me because I dread them. Pat is there most of the time all day and Josh is gone. I had plans this past Saturday that fell through because my friend didn't feel good, one of the college friends [...] (inaudible at 00:39:27), and then I just kind of gave up and did nothing all day. Doing something else was so exhausting.

THERAPIST: So wouldn't it feel really good to have a way to reliably get out on the weekend?

CLIENT: Then I ended up feeling super resentful. I can't just relax in my house but then I don't want to. I wish I was at a meeting somewhere and then I'm exhausted. (laughs)

THERAPIST: You'd like to have either option either be able to relax in your own home or have a space you can go to that feels good. [00:40:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. I have hidden out in my bedroom from time to time to avoid talking to Pat, which was dark and depressing.

THERAPIST: Which must feel horrible, hiding in your own house.

CLIENT: It is. It was horrible. (sniggers) And I felt really guilty. But then sometimes I'll go out and then she'll tell me about some apartment that she couldn't find and was really stressed out.

THERAPIST: And that doesn't feel good, either. You feel really stuck between two not-good options. Let's use some of that resentment to fuel searching for something better for yourself rather than to fuel withdrawing.

CLIENT: I mean I know I do it. I try not to, but I still think about how my relationship with her is ruining my life with Josh and is going to be a source of problems forever. This is like...

THERAPIST: Lots of jumping ahead.

CLIENT:... jumping ahead, but this is when I was just staying at home. It was not good. I'd been staying at home too much. [00:41:00]

THERAPIST: I think you can do this. I think you can use that fear and resentment to fuel yourself to talk some steps to find something. This is a pretty vibrant area. There's got to be something going on. It doesn't have to be on campus. Like you said, it can be anywhere and perhaps it would give you a good outlet and some support.

CLIENT: I just don't know why this is so hard for me. Is it this hard for other people?

THERAPIST: You're exhausted, like you said. That makes it hard. There's a lot of tension that you're wading through to get to your daily life right now, and it's been that way for a year. That's a long time to sit with the frustration and resentment and worry that the situation has created. [00:41:54]

CLIENT: There was a guy in my lab that came in to talk to my lab mate today and he was really mean to her. He flipped out and he looked terrible. He looked like a wreck. He left and she was really upset and he came back and apologized and said he was in a really bad place. I was almost jealous. I almost wished that I could walk around and flip out at people and stuff; and then go apologize. I don't know what's going on in his life something not good.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but he was able to wear it so outwardly and get rid of it rather than hold onto it. He pushed it out to everyone else.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: There's a third choice. You don't have to be him, or you carrying it internally all by yourself; but a third choice of finding a way to direct it is a little bit more productive. Why don't we stop there for today. I sent you an e-mail that you have a couple still covered, so that's good.

CLIENT: Actually the week of the...

THERAPIST: That's the week I'm away. [00:43:02]

CLIENT: You're away that week? I'm actually on vacation then.

THERAPIST: Okay. I have us still meeting next week at 3:30 and then the 16th at 4:20; then I have us the 23rd at 4:20. then I'm away that following week, which is Monday, the 29th through August 7th.

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm going to be away that week.

THERAPIST: You're away the same week.

CLIENT: Then the week after August 10th, the following week, I'd be away. Sorry let's do July. Next week is 3:30.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: The 15th is fine.

THERAPIST: I have us on the 16th at 4:20.

CLIENT: The 16th. Then the next week is vacation.

THERAPIST: For you, the 23rd?

CLIENT: Oh, no.

THERAPIST: July is a long month.

CLIENT: That might also be vacation.

THERAPIST: So we'll cross out the 23rd and we're definitely on for the 9th and the 16th and we have it scheduled for the 23rd or the 30th and we can worry about August later.

CLIENT: Okay. So that would be one session...

THERAPIST: That you pay for by yourself, as long as my calculations are correct. That's my best educated guess.

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