TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

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CLIENT: After we spoke yesterday I decided to do a quick "call my parents" for 15 minutes.

THERAPIST: Wait. Do a what call your parents?

CLIENT: Do a really quick parent call. I usually would do the dinner fake-out call where I call them and am like, "Oh, dinner is ready," or whatever or "I'm getting on the bus."

THERAPIST: "Oh, I think I have call waiting."

CLIENT: Yeah, that doesn't work on them I found out already. (chuckles) But getting on the bus or whatever. [00:01:00] I had a couple of stories planned. I called and told them how [...] (inaudible at 00:01:07) school this weekend, which was awesome. Whatever. I was starting to wind down and my mom was like, "Well, wait. There's something I want to task you about." First she wanted to talk to me about maybe looking after her car this summer and I think I'm just too stressed to deal with that right now. Blah, blah. And then she said that she had heard, meaning from my brother, that I was upset about her not calling [...] (inaudible at 00:02:00) and I really didn't want to talk about it. She was talking about it and it seemed like she felt that she was like, "I didn't call you properly." I don't know. It was very weird. Or they hadn't called in the way that I wanted them to and I was like, "Yes. I was upset. I think I called you several times." She was like, "Well, we weren't there." "No but..." She said, "Well, we were playing euchre and we didn't find out on the news until 7:00." I was like, "Yeah, but you called me at 10:00." She was like, "Well, but we were in the middle of playing euchre." [00:03:00] I said, "Okay, mom, but I think if you had said to anyone ‘I'm going to go call my daughter who lives in Boston for a second,'" I think it would have been okay. And she said, "But we were playing euchre," which was really upsetting and she replies to me where she's like, "I don't understand what the problem is. We were playing cards." I was like, "I wish you had called earlier." She went back to the, "I wasn't worried because it was a sporting thing and I knew you wouldn't be anywhere near it." [00:04:00] Well, regardless – bombing.

We went back and forth a lot. And then was going on about how she wasn't worried. First she said that she didn't want me to think that they weren't concerned about me or they weren't worried about me, but they weren't worried because it was a sporting thing and they were playing euchre. I don't think my mom understood why I wanted her to call, why I was upset she hadn't called earlier or really anything. [00:05:00] (pause) It was also – I don't know. [...] (inaudible at 00:05:08), I guess, that she really sometimes is like she was concerned. She was worried about me, so she cares about me and then would say, "Well, we weren't worried because it was a sporting thing." Then she launched into this thing about how – I had said something like, "Other people were worried." She said that she doesn't worry about things, which is not true. She was saying, I don't know what it is, I just don't worry about things like bombings or September 11th or any of that sort of thing. [00:06:04] I don't worry about it because I know..." She was just sort of going on about how she isn't worried when she hears... I guess if I was in New York City on September 11th then she wouldn't have been worried. I was really very upset and for me a part of what was so upsetting is her reasoning was pretty much that the euchre was more important and she wasn't worried because it was sports. And besides, people don't get worried – or she doesn't get worried – about bombings and things. [00:07:03] Then her follow-up was, "And besides, you're fine." I'm like, "But it was stressful and scary. She said, "But you're fine. You're fine now." I'm like, "No. I'm actually a little stressed." She sort of went back to "you're totally fine" and went back to explaining more how she wasn't worried, so I asked her to stop. When she was explaining how she was paying euchre and whatever, I asked if she could stop explaining why she didn't call me because it was upsetting and I said, "I don't want to hear that anymore." Then her response was September 11th and so I asked her to stop again and then she was, I guess, frustrated that – I don't know. [00:08:14] She was frustrated and said she was calling to apologize for not calling correctly. I said, "I accept your apology, but I'm upset," and then we went around in circles with that for a little while. Then I was like, "I really have to go. The dinner is ready now."

THERAPIST: Sorry. Can you tell me about going around in circles again? I wasn't picking up...

CLIENT: (sighs) So it was my mom saying she was calling to apologize.

THERAPIST: Right. And you it was okay. [00:08:59] CLIENT: I said I accepted her apology and I was also upset and it was scary and then she was like, "Well, but you know we were playing cards," and decides "you were totally fine, so why should we call?" THERAPIST: This all followed the apology?

CLIENT: Yes. That was part of the apology. First she called to tell me she's apologizing for not doing it right and I was like, "Okay." Then she explained that they hadn't called because she didn't find out until...

THERAPIST: Yeah, I got all the rest of that. Okay. All right. I'm clear. And then you aid dinner was ready.

CLIENT: Yeah, I really have to go. And she said, "No. Your dad wants to talk to you." I was like, (whispered) "Oh, God. I really don't want to talk to him," so I said, "No, I really have to go." She said, "No, you really have to stay and talk to your dad." [00:10:00] [...] (inaudible at 00:10:01) voice because [...] was hanging out. And then she would call back. So my dad got on the phone and I attempted to distract him with some other things and then he was like, "Well, you know we called to apologize because it seems like you were kind of upset that we didn't call you on Monday." Then he was like, "I guess you were really upset." I went "yes." He sort of trailed off a little bit. I basically said, "I accept the apology. [00:11:02] I found it very stressful and upsetting and he repeated, "You're fine now." Like that was then, you're fine now. I said, "No, actually it's still very stressful." He just repeated that it was in the past and I was fine and I said I had to go. I just sat there crying for a while because I was really shell-shocked. That was not what I wanted to do at all. I guess the whole point of me calling was to not have that conversation because I didn't want to.

THERAPIST: I think that what you're saying is that you were feeling kind of distant from them and you wanted to sort of reach out a little bit, although in a way where you could protect yourself. [00:12:05]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: They really trounced your efforts to do that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like I have a variety of talking-to-my-parents-briefly-about-nothing strategies and they didn't want to do that. I felt worse after. My mom's comments about "but we were playing euchre" was just like I don't rate above a euchre game. [00:13:05] When I parsed that out, really for her, she just responded again, "But we were playing euchre." That was... (pause) I just feel like I rated below a euchre game, which is pretty bad. Beyond that, I feel my mom didn't have any sense of why I was upset or that I might not want to hear that I rate below a euchre game repeatedly. I also thought she wasn't listening to anything I was saying. I guess I was trying to get her to say something other than "but we were playing euchre" or something. I guess I expected or wanted like "we were playing euchre, but in retrospect we would have called" or "we should have called" or whatever. Something like that. And that didn't happen. [00:15:10] I don't know. I felt like my mom was (sighs) (pause)... I felt like she thought my compliant was that it was an etiquette screw-up, like we didn't call within 24 hours of the thing, which is bad form. Like I was upset and I don't think she actually heard it. [00:16:04] I don't think she really heard or wanted to hear that I was upset, that the bombing was upsetting, that it was really scary, the whole week was scary, the shutdown was scary. She said things like, "I watched the marathon a couple of times," not that [...] (inaudible at 00:16:30) but – whatever. Again, when I said that I wanted her to stop talking about why she didn't bother calling, she was like "Okay, I'll stop talking about it, but I just want to talk about it a little bit more to tell you how I'm right." [00:17:04] I also I feel like – I don't know. I assume my dad was – like my dad, if I call, he's usually somewhere nearby. Sometimes he's in the other room, but I think he was nearby listening and did overhear, at least, her side. Again, I felt like he was that I was overreacting and childish and really upset over something that wasn't important and that because they called to apologize, I should feel okay and that none of it was stressful or upsetting. [00:18:20] I'm pissed that....Actually I don't even know. I think my brother told my parents I was upset and I'm also pissed at that. I'm also pissed that while I was talking to him he was making dinner and eating dinner and was really...

THERAPIST: You talking about your brother?

CLIENT: Yeah. When I talked to him he was not really checked-into the conversation. I feel like it would have been nice if he had either said "I'll call you back" or had asked his wife to take over whatever he was doing so that he could talk to me and pay attention. [00:19:11] (pause) Right now, I also half want to call him and say, "Did you tell mom and dad that I was upset?" Also I half really don't want to. (pause) I kind of also want to call his wife and say "what the fuck?" but I feel weird doing that. [00:20:01] One of the times I called them, I called them both because my brother didn't pick up. I called my brother and he didn't pick up. I called his wife and she picked up and he was next to her, but I think he had his phone off. So I talked to my sister-in-law, Tricia, and she was like, "Wow. That sounds really horrible. Are you okay? Is everything okay?" She was concerned and my brother was less so, not that – she is definitely more expressive than he is. So I kind of want to talk to his wife just about that I el really frustrated about everything, but I also feel weird calling her and being like, "I'm mad at your husband, my brother. Also I'm mad at my parents." [00:21:19]

THERAPIST: In-laws.

CLIENT: "Yeah, your in-laws." I guess I want someone involved in my immediate family to be sympathetic, and I think she would be. I also think it would put her in a weird position. (long pause) (crying) [00:22:26]

THERAPIST: I also have the impression that you're scared about the intensity of your feelings about this not surprised by their intensity, but scared by it.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I thought that my parents for a while that since I already know that my mom has been talking about emotions and XYZ, that it would be less upsetting because I wasn't expecting an emotion-filled conversation about how I felt or how she felt. I figured... what I thought might happen – I don't know. I guess it was worse than I thought it could be. I didn't really realize that that was on the table. [00:24:02]

THERAPIST: My hunch is you didn't want to.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I can see why you wouldn't. I don't mean [...] (inaudible at 00:24:19), (pause) but I think it puts you (pause) in the line of fire in a way and that it reflects more probably on how painful that is or [...] on how painful that is. [00:25:31]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I think part of it is [...] (inaudible at 00:25:50) think that – not that I was exactly okay with my mom being emotionally distant, but I guess I've accepted it or she does what she can and I try to be like, "Okay, you give the worst, most awkward hugs ever." I don't feel that we're emotionally close, but you're trying and it's not fair to expect my mom to be able to... [00:26:47] I guess I have low expectations for my parents' ability to respond emotionally, especially my mom. I don't know if I do, but sometimes I do. In my head, knowing that, it seems like it should make it less painful, but it really didn't.

THERAPIST: I think you basically want to think of her as a good parent and there are some ways that she is, but when it comes to this stuff she just isn't. I don't think you want to see it that way.

CLIENT: I don't.

THERAPIST: I think low expectations sounds more benign and it kind of puts you in charge of how it feels more so. [00:28:00] I think she did a bad job [to parent] (ph?) when it comes to this stuff and that you don't want to see it that way because it's very upsetting. The one consequence of not wanting to see it that way is this kind of thing. It keeps happening; it keeps surprising you in a way. There is an extent to which I think you're surprised. I think you're surprised by how upsetting and jarring it is. You had anticipated this call and how it could have gone south. [00:29:13] You probably could have predicted some of the things she might have said. I think that's true, but in that sense I don't think you're [...] (inaudible at 00:29:22). But I think there is something about the nitty gritty of what those moments are like that I think you kind of don't remember very well when you're not in the middle of them or when they haven't happened. I could be wrong about that.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think part of it is that I mentioned to Kelly [...] (inaudible at 00:29:54) and she was like, "What did she say when you were like ‘I think you should have stopped playing euchre to call me'? What was her response?" Her response was to repeat that she was playing euchre. [00:30:14] It was sort of like there was, I feel, this disengaged, bouncing around the question.

THERAPIST: Actually, maybe joined to that is at least as you related it to me, you didn't say quite "I think you should have stopped playing euchre and called me." What you said was, "I don't think anyone would have minded if you said, ‘My daughter lives there. I'm going to go call her.'"

CLIENT: I said both. [00:30:59]

THERAPIST: Okay. All right. The reason I mentioned it. I don't care about [...] (inaudible at 00:31:04) but it occurred to me when you put it the way, at least just a minute ago...

CLIENT: No, that's the way I put it to her.

THERAPIST: It's a more assertive statement with her because I think that's the other thing that's missing. (pause) That seems closer to a critical judgment of her, which is something you attempt to avoid, I think. [00:31:59]

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't.

THERAPIST: But I take your point, that you did actually say that on the phone. I mean I get it – there's more that happened than what I heard in that particular way.

CLIENT: No, actually [...] (inaudible at 00:32:16). Yes. (pause) To me another part about saying no [...] (inaudible at 00:32:39) is (sighs) saying I was upset that you didn't call because you were playing euchre, didn't make the attempt. It was just like "but we were playing euchre." [00:33:03] I was kind of thinking, "Okay, well you were playing euchre. You're telling me basically, "We were playing euchre, therefore we couldn't stop doing what we were doing.'" I was kind of trying to be like, "I think you could have stopped for these reasons that have nothing to do with how upset I am."

THERAPIST: Like in saying it, you're responding to a particular comment she made, suggesting that it really wouldn't have been a problem for the other people playing, which you were arguing it would not have been in that they would have their priorities straight.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) It's like me being upset wasn't the priority, so maybe you would feel more worried that your euchre-mates were going to be upset. [00:34:15] I'm so stuck at "but we were playing euchre" because I just feel like it's not an answer and it's more of a non-answer than I was expecting. (pause) Also that she seemed to really not get that you could pause your euchre game for a thing. [00:35:11] This seems important enough that you might want to pause what you were doing for the whole five minutes it would take to call me. I guess I wanted to convince her of that and I tried and it didn't work. (pause)

THERAPIST: I imagine it feels to you like nothing you say would really get anywhere near her.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And that you tried to go sort of smaller and less confrontational and it didn't work. [00:36:09]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah. I think when I thought about what would be the worst-case scenario it was going to be more like a well-I-was-going-to-call-you-but reason or "I wanted to call you but I didn't." [00:37:03] because I didn't imagine Oh, I wanted to call you but I didn't have my cell phone." Whatever.

THERAPIST: We should stop. Sorry about the call.

CLIENT: Me, too.

THERAPIST: See you next week. I'll keep looking for a way to not do back-to-back. We may need to do it for a little while.

CLIENT: Okay.

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