TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi!

CLIENT: Hi.

THERAPIST: How are you?

CLIENT: Good.

THERAPIST: Did you by any chance get anything from the insurance?

CLIENT: No. I don't think so. I sent them both things. Did they send you anything?

THERAPIST: No.

(Cross talk)

THERAPIST: You can also send me your member ID and then I could follow up with them too. I'm sure they send it with like three weeks so it's okay.

CLIENT: Oh, not good. I have it I got something from them but I think it was for stuff at Brown. I don't think I did get something from them though and it was like I should double check what it was because I thought maybe it was stuff for Brown but it said, 'here's how much you will be billed,' or something. So I'll follow up with them and see.

THERAPIST: Okay, that would be great. Thanks.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Once it gets started it usually keeps going.

CLIENT: Okay, we'll figure it out. So I was in Pennsylvania for like the past week with my family and so that was the usual it was the usual sort of frustrations with them because I'm really aware of their behavior now and I'm almost like intolerant to being around them though which is an issue because I get so angry and frustrated because my mom does stuff like she just sort of would change plans at the last minute and my boyfriend and I couldn't go along with that because we were seeing his family, too, and she was like making me feel guilty about that when it wasn't my fault. And I knew what she was doing and I was really upset about it and I just suddenly, I can't even deal with her and I had my boyfriend talk to her about making the plans because it was I was so frustrated that I almost just couldn't even like have a conversation with her so I mean, it's good in the sense that I'm so aware of everything that's going on now but I have a really hard time dealing with the anger that comes with it controlling the anger because the only time that I really have like outbursts I feel like anger, frustration that I can't control are more when I'm on the phone with my mom or when I'm dealing with her. And (unclear) that I had a lot of issues with like anger but it was anger due to frustration that I couldn't control but it was always due to interactions with her. [00:03:11]

And I feel like for the most part I have been able to work through, 'okay, I'm angry and frustrated about that in some other area and I try to like control that emotion, but when it's with my mom I can't control it so there is like a lot of that going on and another thing I noticed that was happening is every time I'm around my family and my boyfriend is there or is not there I get upset about the whole engagement thing again so I was sort of thinking like, 'what's going on and why does this keep happening?' And what I feel like is I think I see engagement and marriage as a way of solidifying being away from my parents. Like I think I see that as a step or a maturity step it's like symbolic of that and I think that I feel like without that I am still in this like kid phase or I'm still and I actually think that that's a lot of the issue with being upset that I'm not engaged or married. It gets triggered, yes, when I see a lot of other people getting engaged, but the thought process I'm having is they're in the next stage of their life and they're progressing and I'm not progressing. And so I really think that that's where that coming from that it's almost like I feel like I can't progress on my own. I need like a symbol or I need something else for this big event to occur in order for me to feel like I've moved into adulthood really and this next stage of my life and I'm in the same phase as everybody else and without that I still feel like I'm in this kind of limbo. What really stage of my life am I in? I'm not married but our relationship we're very committed and it's like we are but other people don't see it that way. It brings up all these issues but I think it's coming from me feeling like I'm in limbo between my parents and the next what I see as the next stage or progression or development.

And I think I'm feeling like I can't do it on my own and I can't but I know that I can, but I think that the feeling has been coming from me feeling like well I still have these attachments to them and also financially, too, like what if something happens and I go back to school, what do I do, who do I it's like I feel I'm in this very confusing kind of state and a lot of me being upset about not being engaged or married is because I feel like that will just put me out of this state and that will make things official that now I'm in the next stage of my life and I so it's almost like going from relying on my parents to wanting to go and rely on my boyfriend. It's kind of like me feeling like I can't just rely on myself to achieve this, I need to be between two different sets of people almost. So I realized that was going on but I felt like it was really good that I could realize that and work through that but it's sort of like now that I know that I just need to come to terms with it or deal with it because the other issue is if I do get engaged I'll be really happy and everything but I don't want to use that as a way of not making the progress that I need to make because I think that I could easily go from like total attachment or reliance on my parents to total attachment or reliance on my boyfriend for things and I think I need to be able to feel like I can do things on my own by myself and I'm like, that I'm worth it enough to do that. [00:08:59]

THERAPIST: How do you feel that you're not doing things on your own?

CLIENT: I feel like I am but parts of it are like sometimes if I get frustrated with my parents or something, my boyfriend's there to help me work through it but the main issue if think too, is financially because he owns our house and while I'm in school is paying for all this stuff and so I think for me it's actually hard to deal with the fact that I'm happy I'm going back to school, but to deal with the feeling like I don't have independence in that area and so my parents keep offering to give me money and I don't want them to so I keep saying no because I don't want to have that at all. And then I don't want any ties like that to them but I also don't want to feel like I can't do things on my own, too. And it's not just and I don't think it's just that, I think it's also like having the person to or the people to praise you or because I think sometimes because my parents I've distanced myself from them about telling them sort of things that now I might be relying on my boyfriend too much to get all of the praise that I want and that's not necessarily what like that's not the kind of relationship that I want to have because I don't want to look to him for the same stuff that I was looking to my parents for. I mean, it's fine for him to say different words of praise I guess, but I don't want to need that or rely on him for that. I just want to not need it from anybody I guess because I'm a little bit afraid that as I don't want to separate or break away from certain reliance on my parents to feel good, I guess. I don't want to then shift or move that onto him. I want a relationship to not have that and have it stay the way it is. I'm a little bit afraid that I'm going to do that, to shift from reliance and attachment to them to changing the dynamic of my relationship with him. [00:12:14]

THERAPIST: What would that look like, that (unclear)?

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't know. I've just seen a little bit that I will tell him sometimes about how I did on a test or something and I need praise or, I don't know, or I'll ask him how to fix stuff or call him for advice or I'm just which I think is fine, but like a lot of is stuff that I would have called my dad or my parents for previously, and I mean that is part of like a relationship but I just worried about like shifting the roles a little bit. I don't think I'm doing it too much but like also this weekend when I was frustrated I don't know if I like can you just go deal with my mom and talk to her because I can't. That's me not being able to deal with my own situation and asking him to save the day play that role so I'm afraid that I'm going to rely on him too much in a way that I relied on my parents too much a little bit.

I don't think it's a huge problem but I just know that for some reason I think that getting married will have this great meaning in terms of complete separation from my parents and I am worried about and I'm trying to understand why I think that or reason it out. And I don't know if it's because of things like traditional types of things or traditional roles that I grew up sort of observing where a lot of times people would move out of their parent's house and they got married. I don't know if it's due to just like that influence and just thinking about marriage means this separation or if it's because I think that I can't separate on my own. But the hard thing is the more I sort of separate myself, the more frustrated I become when I do interact with my parents and then the more guilt I feel in certain situations because my dad had shoulder surgery on Monday and I felt really bad that I might have not spent tried to distance myself from my parents over the weekend when he was going to have surgery.

So like I knew that it was the best thing for me so we actually want to like my boyfriend's grandmother has a house in New Jersey that they were cleaning because they want to sell it so we wound up spending two days with my boyfriend's family so that I can also get away from my family a little more which was really good for me to do but I felt really, really guilty. Part of it was coming from my mom but part of it was just I know it's the right thing for me to not be around them as much but I felt really bad about it. And the guilt is just laid on so thick that it's really hard to deal with that. [00:16:56]

So I felt a lot of it this weekend but it's hard to know if it's all me putting it on myself or if a lot of it is because my mom is really laying on the guilt so it's hard to know what it is, but I just felt bad about the fact that I was frustrated with them and I felt guilty about that too so I think there's still that feeling that I know being around them is not good for me and I know that it triggers a lot of bad responses and behaviors in me but I still feel like that societal obligation that they are my parents and I have to be there for them and do all this. So there's still like that sense of obligation that I'm feeling with my relationship with them and there is still like wanting to please them because there are certain situations where my mom would because my boyfriend sort of observes the way they are but he's very good at if my mom says something inflammatory or is being a little ridiculous he just doesn't respond to her because that doesn't deserve (unclear) but I'm like, he didn't answer her and she knows he didn't answer her and now she's going to be displeased with him and she's going to talk to her friends about it and wonder why I'm with him because he didn't respond to her the right way or so there's still a wanting to get approval and please them and that's still there when I'm with them, too. So it's sort of like a knowing need to distance myself but at the same time I want to be able to handle and manage my interactions with them because it's actually getting harder for me to deal with my interactions with them because I'm getting so frustrated with their behavior and how I'm responding to it.

THERAPIST: And you're frustrated with what they say?

CLIENT: Yeah, because I think it's with what they say because I mean it's sort of like my mom twists everything so that if you don't do what she wants you do she gets upset with you or we were eating breakfast one morning and my mom said, 'can you come in tonight and room with me?' And I went in and she started taking shirts out of our closet that she had bought and trying to put them over my head. And I was like, 'what are you doing?' And she was like, 'well, this is a drape-y and I think it's a good color and I think it's going to look really good on you and I'm trying' and I was like, 'no, I was eating breakfast. I don't want to try these shirts on that are drape-y so they'll look' her actions were so obviously odd and obviously I knew or felt that in saying they were drape-y she was commenting on my weight. There were like all kinds of things in there and I was like angered though that she was acting that way.

So I'm frustrated like why why did you have to do this? I was sitting here and everything was fine and why do you have to jump into this strange situation and then she made other comments like that I looked really stressed out. But why did she have to why didn't she just leave things? Why does she have to make it be this so -? I think that's where the frustration comes. It's from her behavior and what she says because I don't understand it. It's more like being upset because she can't change and isn't even aware of her erratic and strange behavior. And I think that's where the frustration comes in in that she so then me reacting that way like, 'what are you doing?' she gets upset with me and makes it look like I did something to her and turns it around and that's how she is with everything.

And that's frustrating too because I can't prove that I have a right to be upset because you're just turning everything around on me and you aren't aware that your actions are really strange and upsetting to me and you've been doing this so long and why do you have to be that way? Like I think that's where a lot of the frustration comes in. Sometimes I don't think she even remembers the things that she does. Like she acts so erratically that I actually made a comment to her this weekend about how I can remember as a kid she made up some story about her friend who did all these things wrong and I mentioned it to her and she was like, 'I don't even remember doing this. I must have really affected you.' So I think that she might not even be aware of her actions or behaviors because she's acting so it's almost like she does everything very quickly and I don't know what's going on in her mind but it's really hard for me to deal with someone when I can't understand what they're doing and their behavior and its effect on me and blaming me for reacting negatively to it.

So I think that's where the anger and frustration comes in because I don't know how to talk to someone calmly and rationally that is literally making no sense to me so that's why I had to say to my boyfriend when we were dealing with her making me feel guilty about not seeing my grandmother and all this stuff 'can you just please go make plans with her and talk to her because I can't do it. I can't deal with her.' So it's being so aware of her behavior. It's just really hard to interact with her. And I think when I remove myself from the situation she's angrier with me. So on several occasions I removed myself from the situation or went to my boyfriend's family for the day and she was upset and hurt like, 'why don't you want to be with your family?' And I don't even know what to say because there's no I don't know if there's really any point to going through everything with her that I feel that's she's done because she will just get defensive and turn it around on me and she's not going to change her behavior because she's not willing to.

So I just don't know how to deal with her basically, but after I come home from seeing my parents I have a day where I have kind of like depression and anger. Like I'll have a day where I have like I don't feel normal or happy and then usually after a day or two it goes away but then it happens every single time after I see them because I think I'm having such a roller coaster of emotions kind of like I'm upset about not being engaged because I think that and I'm usually upset about my weight after I see them because there's usually been some sort of comments made and different things said. So then I'll be upset about that for a couple of days so there are just things or I'm upset that we have to sit in traffic from going to visit them because I feel like they don't acknowledge like how much we're doing coming to see them. [00:26:58]

So there are all these different things and it's negatively affecting me when I come home and it's negatively affecting my boyfriend if I'm in a bad mood so it's like it just keeps happening every time I'm around them and I feel like I should be able to control my emotions a little bit.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Because I feel like I shouldn't be getting so angry or being like I feel like I should be able to control my anger or frustrations and I feel like I should be able to be confident enough in myself that whatever they say to me is not going to affect my self-esteem and body image. But I had stopped weighing myself because I thought that might be good to do for a little while but then when I was at their house and they were saying all this stuff to me and then I weighed myself and obviously it was after Thanksgiving so I weighed more and then I got really upset about it and that set off a whole spiral of thinking really, feeling really negatively about myself. It's like triggering all these different things but I want to be able to it's more of that wanting to be doing it on my own. I want to be able to feel as though good about myself and easily to have a high enough self-esteem and self-image that whatever they say and whatever they do isn't going to have such a negative effect on me. But that may be hard to achieve but I want to achieve that and I also want to be able to control my emotions enough that I can just walk away for a bit and just have a calm conversation with my mom but there are so many things that she says that trigger me that it's really difficult for me to have one of those.

THERAPIST: It sounds very painful.

CLIENT: Yeah it's basically when I'm with them it's like, and it's worse with my mom, but it's this weekend of like really painful interactions and emotions and then y when I'm home I'm trying to think through and process everything and I think in doing that I can get down and really upset and then like think all these people are like at this new stage in their life and I'm not and get into all this kind of thinking.

THERAPIST: How do you go from thinking about your parents and your family to thinking about that?

CLIENT: I mean I think part of it was like more people I know got engaged this weekend. But I think that I feel like if I'm married it's going to make my parents think of me in a different way and it's going to make them see my relationship in a different way because I think that they still think they can swoop in and save the day or like I had my boyfriend as my beneficiary on my 401k and my dad had me take him off because you're not married and you shouldn't have put him so there's like -

THERAPIST: How did he have you take him off?

CLIENT: Well he told me to and I listened to him. (Laughing) So, but like he keeps saying my parents say to me like, 'you're not married. He's stringing you along.'

THERAPIST: Why do you still listen to your dad?

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't know why like they're able to get through. Like they really got through for some reason and then I think because I've always listened to them that it's just sort of like I think that you're just supposed to listen to what your parents say. And that's still that (unclear) me feeling like in limbo where when they're saying stuff to me like 'if something happens to you don't have any legal obligation to your house. You don't have any legal obligation to anything you'll be left with nothing.' And then they'll tell me a story about someone they know that that happened to somehow. They say all this stuff about my relationship because we're not married so I think a lot about what they've said is still there in the back of my mind in making me feel like, 'oh no, what if?' So I'll be perfectly content and fine and then it's just being around them and feeling like I just need to get married so that they will approve of my relationship and then they will see me as separate from them and they won't try to do all this stuff for me and they will I see it like saving me from them, almost like that's the thing is I think that. So I almost feel very juvenile when I'm around them and like I'm still a little kid and I feel like if I'm married and at a life stage like everybody else's then I won't be juvenile anymore. I won't have to listen to them. It's my way out from them basically. So I think that's why I go from thinking through stuff with them to I think it's triggered by seeing getting a message that so and so got engaged or whatever. And then it's like well they're all in this next stage and they're able to get away or whatever and I am not there and I still like that's where I think the money thing comes in my dad's always telling me all this stuff and so I feel like it's still making me feel like tied to them like I still need them for something.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you're worried about feeling alone? Like you either need to be tied to your parents or a fianc� or a husband or otherwise you'll just be by yourself?

CLIENT: I mean I think that's a little bit of it but I think it's more I mean I don't feel alone now. I feel like I have James and I feel like I don't see the dynamic in our relationship is the same as what it would be if we are married. And normally when I'm not around these like outside influences I just feel like really content and really happy with it and I feel like it's really good and then it's when I feel like people knock my relationship down that I feel upset about it. Because I feel like a lot of it is my parents and I'm really trying we're just going for a night to New Jersey again this weekend and I'm going to see Philip's son and family whom I have been avoiding for a long time because the last time I saw them they buzzed me about not being engaged and saying that I needed to give him an ultimatum and this was a couple of years ago and then I've also gained a lot of weight since the last time I saw them and I'm petrified of them talking about me and passing judgment on me. But I want to be there for my grandfather so I'm sort of torn between these things but they will make comments about us not being married and our relationship and then my aunt was like her now husband for like 15 years and then they married and people were talking about her all the time, in our family, and so it's like I know they're saying the same stuff about me because they've said it to me too.

So when you're around people who are asking you these questions and saying this stuff all the time even if you're perfectly fine with the way things are it starts to get to you a bit and so I think that's an issue too. It's sort of like this pressure that this is what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to do the right thing and how can you live together and not be married. You know there's all this different stuff that all these people are saying and I think that starts to get to me after a while. Sometimes it comes from friends but not really as much because my friends that were saying that stuff, some of them have been through divorces and some of them have realized that that's not necessarily like what you have to do. So they don't say that stuff anymore.

THERAPIST: That it's a guarantee for anything.

CLIENT: No. And it's really just my family bugging me about it so a lot of the way I feel is torn between what I want to do which I want to be with James and that I know. And like, yeah, we could get married in a courthouse or something and I think when I'm removed from my family and everything my view is very different than when I'm around them. Because when I'm around them they say like you have to have a big wedding and you have to do all this stuff and you have to be married and you have to and so then I start thinking that that's what I want like it's hard for even me to even figure out what I want anymore and what's coming from my own thoughts or what's coming from my family and the stuff that they're saying to me. [00:39:09]

THERAPIST: Well here's a thought. I mean, so maybe as painful as it is it's almost "easier" to take in these messages than to think there's really something really disturbing about these people.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like the way you got very tearful when you were describing this pretty bizarre interaction when your mother's trying to put shirts on you and there's something wrong here. There's something really disturbing.

CLIENT: Um hmm. I think I felt guilty feeling that way. And like I still feel like they did so much for me and I think I feel bad putting them down. Like I even felt badly like saying like what they do was weird but it is. I mean so I think that's like a defense I don't want to think of them in that way because I don't think that's the right way to think or the right thing to do but I know that what they're doing is bizarre the way they act is bizarre and erratic and I think I just sort of they've always been the people in my life that I had looked to for advice or to ask for help or to look to for what to do so I feel really guilty like discounting that by thinking that they're crazy or not. I feel really bad feeling that way and I also feel, I mean, I think I've come a long way with that but it's taken me a long time to realize that the way they behave is erratic and strange and I don't want to behave that way. As my boyfriend pointed out to me initially I used to get mad at him and I don't do that anymore because I really acknowledge the way that they act but it's taken me a long time to get there because I feel really badly about the way I feel towards them because I think that's wrong. Even though I (unclear) it's hard to deal with feeling that way towards your parents because I feel on the opposite side they did do they have done so much for me. [00:42:00]

So yeah, I think it's hard for me to look at them that way and say like what they're saying is a little weird and even to look at the rest of my family that way because I have such a history with them and I know that the way they talk about people and the things they do is weird and I don't really want to be a part of it but I also feel like, oh, they've known me since I was little. They were always there for me. Like I still have a whole lot of sentimental feelings and so I still listen to what they say.

THERAPIST: A feeling of sentiment and attachment.

CLIENT: Yes. There's like memories, sentiment and attachment so I still feel like oh they're older, and they've been through more so I should really listen to what they're saying to me, like these are words of wisdom even though it's really more that they are sort of a lot of it is their old way of thinking and not being able to accept things that are different. And their culture of judgment and gossip and stuff and I don't know if it's a New Jersey thing or just how they are. So it's hard to be around them and filter out what they're saying because it still really gets to me. So I feel like this weekend will be hard for me but for only the party on Sunday so we're only going for a little bit because we have to leave so I think that will be good so then I don't have to be there for that long but I almost felt like I wanted to go shopping and get something that made me look thinner or try to like I'm so obsessed over them seeing my weight and talking about it that I feel like I won't enjoy being there because I'm so -

THERAPIST: Anxious.

CLIENT: Yeah, nervous and anxious about it. I know when I've lost weight they've said something about it so they're probably not going to say anything to me about gaining weight but I know they're going to make comments about it and I just I don't like that feeling.

THERAPIST: Over (unclear).

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Felicity (sp?), we're going to need to stop today, okay.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So I will see you next week.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And good luck this weekend.

CLIENT: Thank you. (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Take care.

CLIENT: Thanks.

THERAPIST: Okay, good-bye.

CLIENT: Oh and do they e-mail (unclear)?

THERAPIST: I don't think they do e-mail.

(Cross talk)

CLIENT: You have to call.

THERAPIST: I think you have to call.

CLIENT: Okay,

THERAPIST: If you have any problems just you can send me your ID number and I can just -

(Cross talk)

THERAPIST: Okay, take care, bye-bye.

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