TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

[00:01:00]

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in. Thank you very much.

CLIENT: You're welcome.

THERAPIST: I have to get Kelly (sp?) to recalculate everything-

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: (cross talk at 00:01:22) I think you're not going to end up (inaudible at 00:01:25) for last month.

CLIENT: Okay. That's fine.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:01:29) that.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I should have...

CLIENT: So I was thinking more about the whole idea that we were talking about last week, where I was saying how I feel like I try to make myself smaller all the time. And I was listening to-there's this poem called "Shrinking Women," that went viral or whatever. But it's about this girl and she's talking about her relationship with her mom and how about she realizes that because of what learned from her mom, she's making herself smaller. [00:02:08]

And she starts talking about how she says "sorry" all the time and things like that. The poem, I cried when I heard the poem, because I do the same thing. And I was thinking that-I was thinking my mom really does that stuff, too. Sometimes, when we'll go out to eat or something, my mom will make her voice really quiet, or she'll say sorry-do all of these different things. And then I realized that I was doing a similar thing, because one of my biggest issues is saying "sorry" to people for everything. [laughs] [00:03:01] And always apologizing for what I'm about to do.

And there's the other side of it, where there are people that don't apologize for anything and come off as more brusque. And I'm very sensitive to people like that. But on the other hand, I don't want to be the person that's saying "sorry" for literally everything.

And one of the women at the new job actually told me that I have to have more confidence. [laughs] People are training me and I'm doing all this stuff, I'm saying, "Sorry, I don't mean to bother you," "Sorry, I don't mean to do this," "Sorry, I don't mean," you know? And someone at my previous job had also told me to stop apologizing [laughs] for things. [00:04:00]

I think that that's me trying to make myself not step on anybody's toes or be a real presence that will rattle anything. It's a very pervasive issue, but I actually think that that is also, definitely is a learned behavior and it's how like what we were talking about last week it's how I learned to interact with other people, is to be the martyr and not rattle [laughs] things.

And initially, when I was younger, that wasn't me at all. [00:05:00] I was very loud and very out there and very, "This is me, take it or leave it." But then when that was met with being made fun of criticism, I don't know if I-I don't really know when I started mirroring my mom's behaviors or if I even realized-I don't think I realized, obviously [laughs] that I was doing that, because I know that I tried to start making myself be quieter and not speak out as much. And I think that those are her behaviors.

And I don't think, at the time, when I decided that this was what I was going to do, that I realized I was doing something that I probably saw her doing. [00:06:05] It's only in my adult life that I actually noticed that she does it. But I was always taught to apologize and to not be as loud or be as much of a presence.

I almost actually wonder if, when I was making waves because I was being [laughs] so expressive all time and so out there, part of me thinks that, when all this was happening and I was having problems with kids, that I was taught to be quieter. And I don't necessarily remember this, exactly, but I do know that I was always taught to be polite and apologize and be in my place. [00:07:05]

And I know that when my parents would, we would have family over or something, I was always very loud and interrupting [laughs] people and things. And I was definitely taught that that, I needed to calm down.

So I wonder if, over time, when I thought that I had this great idea that I was going to be quieter and not rock the boat, if it was really this accumulation of being told, over and over again, "You should be polite," "You should sit nicely," "You should do this," and it built up into that?

Because being someone that's quiet and apologizing, I don't feel that that's really who I am. [00:08:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I get that-I mean, that's what-

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's imposed, it's (crosstalk at 00:08:06).

CLIENT: Yeah. It doesn't feel like it's genuine. And it makes me-it bothers me a lot, because it makes me come off as very young and very meek and very... This sweet, young girl type of persona, type of thing.

Part of me thinks, "Oh, but people really like that behavior. People respond well to that." But then I don't really like that-it's that whole difference between doing what other people want to see or hear and being myself. [00:09:11]

But at the same time, there's-because I was taught that this was so good and praise-worthy to act this way and be so sweet and so nice, when I do act that way? There's a part of me that's proud of myself, like, "I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. This is really good."

And I that's part of that wanting to impress family and my parents and stuff, because my grandmother my mom's mom always writes me notes and stuff. And she always says to me, "You're so sweet, just like your mother," all that stuff. [00:10:02]

Part of me is like, "Oh, I'm being really sweet and I'm pleasing her." But the other part of me is feeling like-and I'm not saying-I don't want to be rude to people [laughs] but I want to able to be more assertive, I think that's a better word for it. And I want to apologize at the right time, not all the time. [laughs]

So there are things that I don't need apologize for. If someone's training me at work, I don't need to apologize for asking them a question. I can just ask them a question. They're the person training me that day. I don't need to apologize to them all the time. That's not the right use of the word "sorry." If I had stepped on someone's toe or something, [laughs] maybe I would say so. [00:11:02]

So it's knowing when to apologize and knowing when not to apologize. It's almost relearning those behaviors, because the word "sorry" comes out so naturally to me. I'm saying it all the time, I think. I don't even notice that I'm saying it.

But it's making me feel smaller. The way that I am interacting with people and making myself, like, "Oh, I'm the bottom of the barrel," or the bottom of the totem pole. I have to really belittle-really be very polite and belittle myself and really be small and not make waves and not-acting like that is not working [laughs] for me anymore, because there's part of me that wants to get out. [00:12:17]

And then when the other people respond to my behavior by treating me like I really am this newbie that's this meek, I get mad and I get frustrated inside, because don't they know that I'm not this? Don't they know that I really know more and I really am more confident? Don't they know that I'm not this person? But I'm acting like this person that's little and doesn't know anything. [00:13:01]

I found myself, the other day-there's a girl training me that's a lot younger than me. But I think I was acting that way towards her, saying, "Oh, okay. What do we do?" you know? Then she responded to that, because she's a very confident young woman. And she really asserted herself. And then I thought to myself, "Doesn't she know that I'm very educated in this area? Doesn't she know that I used to manage-doesn't she know everything?"

Well, of course, she doesn't know, because the way that I'm acting is like I'm 12-years-old and, "Whatever you say." The way I'm acting isn't a reflection of who I am, I feel like, or the way that I feel inside, because I feel like I'm smarter than that and I know more than that. [00:14:13]

And I want that to come across my interactions with people. I don't want to be that sweet person that doesn't rock that boat that does everything for other people, because I don't think that that's who I am. Maybe that's who my mom is, but I don't think it's who I am.

(pause)

I did, a couple of days ago, (inaudible at 00:14:48) that interaction, I found myself feeling really angry, you know? That's not who I am but the way that I'm acting, of course people are going to perceive me as this young, sweet girl, because that's the way that I'm behaving. [00:15:12] I'm inviting them to act that way towards me or step on me or assert themselves over me, because I'm not asserting myself at all.

In my previous job, I think I must have acted that way initially, but once I warmed up to everyone, then I became more confident, because in the previous job with people in my group that I was comfortable with-because I was actually managing a lot of people and stuff, and it was because once I became more comfortable, the real me came out, because I don't think I felt that I had to walk on eggshells anymore. [00:16:14]

Initially, it came out in an almost abrasive way. And I think it was because I'd been holding back for so long, wanting to take the stage and take control (inaudible at 00:16:35). When I was younger, I actually acted in a lot of plays and I was very dramatic and a very expressive person and I wanted to be the center of attention. I wanted people to hear what I had to say.

And I think repressing that for from when I was 14 [laughs] to when I was 22, then when I had finally felt more comfortable and had opportunity to start expressing myself more and then also, with managing people, sometimes I feel like in that moment I was a little too much, because I had been holding this back for so long. [00:17:32]

But then now when I find myself in this new experience with the new people, I'm not acting-I'm going back to acting like this meek person. It's not because I was able to be assertive and build confidence in the old area that that transitioned over. [00:18:00] Now it's back to being the sweet, meek-it's back to all those other behaviors.

And I don't know if the way that I was acting, too, at the old place was also more of a reflection of the fact that it was more acceptable, there, to be very loud and brusque and really you didn't have to be polite at all to people because it was finance, versus-I do want to be nice to people in the new environment, so I don't know if the way that I was acting in the old environment was also because I know that's how I was supposed to act, because that was what was acceptable and it may have not even been a reflection of me breaking through any of this. [00:19:05]

If there were people there that were still in a position of power over me, I still was saying "sorry" too much and doing things like that with them. It was more with the people I knew well in my direct area that I was able to act more authoritative or more expressive, because I felt more comfortable around them, and that was what I had to do.

Whereas in this new environment, I want to be polite and nice to people, and I don't want to rock the boat because I'm still feeling things out. But I feel like I've set this tone that I'm this really polite, sweet person that has nothing to say. [00:20:00]

And I think that's the big thing, too, is that I have a lot to say. And I know, inside, that I know a lot. But I'm holding back on everything, because I'm doubting myself and I'm not feeling confident enough to express myself.

And I also think part of me thinks that being that dramatic or center of attention or being an expressive person is somehow bad. I feel like that was taught to me, because I know when we had family over, we had people over, I always wanted to perform plays for them and do all this stuff, or give political [laughs] opinions and all kinds of different things, because I had a lot to say. [00:21:05] And I wasn't really aware of, "Oh, it's not polite to interrupt." I wanted to tell people what I had to say.

But it was clearly taught to me that that wasn't what you should do. I went in the total opposite direction to become someone that had nothing to say, when, inside, I feel like I have a lot to say. And I felt like what I have to say is valid. But I've taught myself to repress everything and be polite and apologize to everyone.

(pause)

THERAPIST: It's very (inaudible at 00:21:59) when you walk around with this feeling that people wouldn't be interested in what you have to offer and you have to conform to something you're not.

CLIENT: Yeah, and it's led me to have despite the fact that through middle school age, I was getting up on stage and doing debates and doing all of this stuff then, because I decided that I was going to be this meek person, I developed an intense fear of public speaking, of speaking out. And that lasted all through college, that I was so scared of everybody around me and of saying anything.

My senior year of college, it started getting so bad that I developed some-I had a weird psychosomatic thing happening, where I would be sitting in class and I was in this block, this special series of classes that they had had at the school, where they combined the political science and business major. [00:23:25] I went to a small school, so all the business majors were the cool kids.

I was in class with all them, and I was so fearful-I think one day, I had to go to the bathroom, but I was so afraid to get up and go to the bathroom in front of them that I sat there, sweating, waiting until the class was over, because I wouldn't get up in front of anyone.

And then after that happened, I developed some weird [laughs] psychosomatic thing where I would sit in class and I felt like water was trickling down my legs. [00:24:06] But it wasn't. And I would feel that every single time I went into that class. And then carried that with me for a year, and then I got over it.

But I was so afraid of even standing up in front of someone not even speaking, anyone looking at me, any sort of attention, anything that would cause anyone to think anything of me, then I wouldn't even get up and leave to go to the bathroom. [laughs]

And then, in my previous job, though, when I did have to do a lot of public speaking, I had to get over that. And the only way [laughs] I got over it was by doing it over and over again, and then it was a bit easier. [00:25:00]

But I'm still not at the same level with being confident to get up in front of people and not care what they think of me. I can leave a room now [laughs] and do things like that, but I'm still not at the same level of confidence that I was at when I was younger, where when I was younger, I would say, "I didn't care what they thought," of me. I was getting up and doing what I had to do and expressing myself the way I wanted to.

I would love to get back to that place where I'm not so hyper-aware of-"Well, if I stand up, then everybody's going to look at me," or, "If I do this, then, what are they thinking?" or, "I'm giving a presentation in nutrition class, are they all thinking about how fat I am?" [00:26:00]

I need to get over that so that I can tell people what I have to say, because I feel like I have so many different, valid points to make. And I feel like public speaking will help me a lot in my future career, in being able to do it and being able to people research I've done or what I have to say. But I want to be able to do that without thinking the whole time, "Are these people thinking about how fat I am?" or, "Are they thinking about my outfit?" All these really superficial things that I used to not worry about at all, that [laughs] manifested and developed themselves over time, from me being told, "It's not good to make waves," "Sit in the corner and be polite, and you'll make people more comfortable that way." [00:27:05]

It's very painful to think that I wasn't always-that's the really hard thing for me, is to think that [cries] why did this-everything happens for a reason, but why did this have to happen? Why did I have to stop being myself? Because it feels so much easier to be yourself, but there are all these things that are happening inside of my mind that make it really hard for me. There are all these things suppressing, and they're my true personality. [00:28:00]

[Crying]

And I feel like there's a lot going on inside my mind. And I think that a lot of it is because of what I was taught was right and wrong. And what was drilled into me, so much that doing anything that was wrong feels so bad.

THERAPIST: It's easier to be yourself when you're in an environment that encourages it.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's the thing.

THERAPIST: It's harder to yourself if you're no in an environment that encourages it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's always easier to do something different.

CLIENT: Yeah. A lot of times, it's easier for me to feel like I'm not upsetting people than to feel like because I was assertive and said what I had to say, I might have offended some people or I might have upset some people. [00:29:07] That's okay.

And I can't get to the-I can, but I'm not at the point right now where I feel like-upsetting people obviously doesn't sit well with me. Sometimes I'm actually envious of people that might come off as abrasive but they have gotten to the point where they have enough self-confidence that they're going to say what they want to do or what they-they don't care. Maybe they do. But they don't appear to care what other people think.

And I'm very envious of that, because I would love to be able to get up and say what I have to say or give an opinion, without having different things going on inside of my head besides what I'm saying. [00:30:15]

It's a lot to feel like people are always judging you and they are! That's the hard thing, accepting that people are judging you and not caring about it, because I think when you're sitting there, people are going to pass judgment on you if you're getting up, but it might be about what you're saying. It may not be about what you think.

So for me, it's more-I think, because I am aware that people are going to judge different things in what you're saying or what you're doing, it's more getting to a level where I accept that and I don't need to dwell on it or worry about it, really. [00:31:15] Where I can take that knowledge and put it away and do what I'm doing. And be myself. So my goal is that I've-I want to get to a point where I can do that.

(pause)

THERAPIST: When (ph) people do make judgments but in different directions, you have no idea (crosstalk at 00:31:41).

CLIENT: Yeah, you don't know.

THERAPIST: And it could be the complete opposite and for the opposite reasons, for their own personal issues.

CLIENT: Right, and that's the thing, it's knowing that probably has nothing to do with me. That, yes, it's probably happening but that's fine and I don't need to worry. [00:32:05] It's other people. And I need to do what I'm doing and say what I have to say.

I feel like I spend half my time worrying about that, or half my brain power [laughs] worrying about all these things. And I want to take that knowledge that that's happening but tuck it away and not spend so much time thinking about it, because it is exhausting. It's not really doing anything positive for me. It's holding me back I feel, at least. [00:33:02]

But what's really hard is that I feel like being myself is so wrong, because it's not doing what I was told was right as a kid. It's not being so apologetic or being so polite or being so meek. That's not who I am. And I still have a lot of these feelings of guilt from doing the wrong thing.

THERAPIST: Wrong in whose eyes?

CLIENT: In my parents' eyes. And I still feel that need when my grandmother writes me a letter and says, "You're so sweet, just like your mother," or something, part of me still feels like that's good. [00:34:06] There's still that part of me that that thinks, "Oh, she thinks I'm doing all this," and that's really-there's part of me that still thinks that's the right thing to do, because it was told to me so many times.

So it's uncomfortable to stop a lot of the behaviors that are things that my mom does that still associate me with her. It's uncomfortable for me to stop doing them, because even though it might not be who I think I really am, it still feels really right to do. [00:35:04] It feels really right to apologize to people all the time that feels like the polite, nice thing to do. That's what you're supposed to do.

It's feels like I'm disobeying or something like that in not acting that way. So I feel like I must have been reprimanded or told not to do these things so many times that I feel this guilt-like I'm doing something bad, this isn't right, I'm not supposed to do this. I feel those feelings if I'm not always apologizing.

Right now, I [hadn't written] (ph) people thank you notes for gifts that they gave me for Christmas yet. [00:36:01] And I feel really upset. I think about it all the time, that I didn't do it yet. Every day when I wake up, I think, "Oh, I didn't do that yet."

It's like this sense of guilt or this sense of disobeying and of not doing the right thing if I don't do things that I was taught to do as a kid.

(pause)

THERAPIST: Your parents, but your mom in particular, needed you to be a particular way for her.

CLIENT: Yeah, very polite and very sweet and very-definitely very apologetic and always doing things for other people, that was really important. [00:37:00] And then I was told that that's who I was. And then I believed that that's who I was.

My parents still say weird things. Even though they know I'm going to school to be a nutritionist, they'll say, "I could see you being a lawyer," or something. They still have other things that they say they think I should be doing. It's weird. I think-they always said, "You're the type of person that should be-you really seem to like helping other people, that's who you are." And then, you start to believe that that's who you are. [00:38:00]

And part of me still thinks that. So if I help a patient in some of kind of way or do something, I think, "Oh, I'm helping someone. That's who I am." There's still that, in the back of my mind. I think that happened a lot and I was told, "You're like your mother. That's who you are. This is who you are," and then that's who I believed I was.

THERAPIST: Yes, but also not believed it, which created...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...a different probably a better kind of calm, ultimately but a calm, too.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It was, "This is not right." You didn't completely lose yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah. And it took me a long time, though, to realize that. [00:39:00] Because I feel like it wasn't until I met my boyfriend and that we were truly well together, because a lot of the things he enjoys were things that I actually enjoyed but I forgot that I enjoyed.

Then I started realizing, "I like science," "I like these," "Oh, that's who I was!" I started remembering who I actually [laughs] was and what I really liked. And that was something that had been suppressed for a long time.

And then, in realizing that, it became very painful. And that's what's been so hard, the more I realize this doesn't feel right because it's not right and it's not who I am, the more painful it is, because I got angry that I spent so many years not being myself. [00:40:13]

The realization is good to have, but it's very painful to deal with, because I often think, "What if I had continued to be myself? Would I have had to deal with so much? Would I have had all of my weight issues?" I don't want to think that way, either, but there's a lot of anger towards my parents for molding me into [laughs] I guess what they wanted me to be. [00:41:03] And for not letting me continue to be myself.

And I know it's not all them. A lot of it is also is psychologically being made fun of. And there are those issues, too. But [sighs] it's very upsetting to realize that you spent so many years not in my opinion not truly living out my potential.

And it's good that I realize that, now. It's just really hard to deal with.

(pause)

THERAPIST: It feels like a loss.

CLIENT: Yeah. It feels like lost years, or something. But I don't want to... [00:42:01] I think that going through all of that and acting a certain way or trying so hard to fit in is not what I would have wanted to be doing. But at the same time, I wonder if it's good that I went through it so that now I can really realize who I am.

I'm trying to look at it-also, it makes me angry, but I'm trying to look at it as not-it was worth it, because now I'm realizing this. At least I didn't spend my whole life like that. I'm trying to not look at it so negatively, because who knows what would have really happened? [00:43:06]

I was talking about that poem at the beginning. When I hear stuff like that, it makes me always think, "I never want to do this to my children." I know I talked about that (ph) in the beginning, too. I think about that so much, because I never want to if I have kids suppress who they really are or for any child, to have them be told that they have to be thin or they have to be quiet or they have to be polite. It all feels so wrong, because it makes me really angry. [00:44:02] It makes me vow that I never want to do that, but also makes me scared that I will accidentally [laughs] do that.

THERAPIST: How do you mean, "accidentally"?

CLIENT: [laughs] As in, I have all these behaviors that I'm trying to break, that are learned behaviors that I was taught are right and it's hard for me to break them. And if I got stressed or something and wasn't aware of what I was saying, and said something about the word "diet" or said something about-there are words and certain things that I don't actually even want to say in my house. And I always fear that I'll be stressed or be unaware of what I'm saying and say something about dieting or say something about wanting to lose weight. [00:45:08]

And those are all things that I don't want to do, and don't want to say. It's something that I want to deal with, now. I don't want to be focused on weight. I want to be more focused on overall well-being and health. I don't want to be focused on dieting. I want to be focused on overall well-being and health. There are things that people get very focused on and that I've been very focused on all of my life. And I don't want to be focused on them. [00:46:00]

And I'm always afraid, though, in a way, that I'm going to forget that I don't want to be focused on them or something [laughs] and that I'll just...

THERAPIST: You'll just forget.

CLIENT: Yeah. [laughs] I'll get stressed and say the word "fat." I use it so much, negatively, towards myself. And it's something that I don't want to use. And it's a word that I don't want my kids to hear me-there are certain words, like "weight," "diet," and "fat," and "obese." There are certain words that are so negative for me and they bring up so much emotion that I don't want my kids to have to see that. [00:47:05]

I don't know. I feel like there are so many diet ads and diet commercials out there and all these things. And everyone's so hyper, so obsessed with dieting and weight myself included, because that's the way that I was raised, that I want to be more focused on health. And I don't feel like any kids, any impressionable, young kids girls and boys should ever see all of this diet stuff and feel like that's what they're supposed to do, because I think it's so painful for me, just thinking it. [00:48:00]

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:48:02) you're talking about wanting to protect future children from some of the things that you were not protected from (crosstalk at 00:48:10).

CLIENT: Sorry. Yeah. I think that's the thing, it's being angry that I wasn't protected from it and knowing what it resulted in, yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:48:23)

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I'm not sure I mentioned, the first week of February, I'm away.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Okay? (crosstalk at 00:48:28)

CLIENT: Oh, yeah, I'll just (crosstalk at 00:48:29) my calendar.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's still a few weeks away, but...

CLIENT: Okay, all right.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay, great. I'll see you next week.

CLIENT: See you next week.

THERAPIST: Okay, take care.

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