TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: I mean it will be right around the fourth.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. Oh. On July 2nd, I have to cancel because I have a dental appointment.

THERAPIST: Okay. I will make a note.

CLIENT: That's the 2nd.

THERAPIST: Okay. Do you know if it's a Monday or a Tuesday?

CLIENT: It's a Tuesday.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah. So, happily, I had a major call back this morning, so I didn't have to talk to him about how I wasn't going to go to his (inaudible) meeting. My parents came and it was a lot. I don't know. I was, I guess I would say I was fairly zoned out from like Friday through Sunday and yesterday and some of today still. [00:01:30]

So, Ashby and I had, we plans and back up plans to sort of like to keep the peace and keep people occupied. I don't know. It was just, I just felt very stressed and awkward the entire time my parents were right there. I mean Ashby was sort of, basically accompanied me with my family for the whole visit, so I was like yeah. A good distraction. My mom was just very odd. It can be hard to read her sometimes, but I'm pretty used to it, but I really wasn't sure what was going on. Usually, when she visits, it's not uncommon for her to ask do you want to go to the grocery store to get like whatever things and once or twice I've been like can you just bring me, you know, like a big pack of paper towels or whatever. [00:03:00]

So, we went to the grocery store and it was extremely, and she always pays. She always will be like oh, should I pay? I'm like okay. So, that's and she didn't. She just seemed very like out of it and vaguely annoyed that she was paying, which I sort of felt bad, but I was also like fuck you. Pay for the groceries. We went to two stores. We went to one to buy toilet paper. I didn't want to buy the toilet paper, but at the store she was also kind of, I don't know. She just seemed kind of out of it. It does turn out that apparently she has a hearing problem in one of her ears.

THERAPIST: Oh. [00:04:00]

CLIENT: Which makes it harder for her to hear and when she talks, she hears an echo. This is mostly because she doesn't like to admit being sick and had some kind of vertigo signs for at least four months and never really got it treated.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I think that was contributing to it because sometimes I would talk to her and she didn't notice or react. So, maybe some of that was her not hearing right. Not helpful and weird. I don't know. My dad was sort of like being extra jovial, which I also found weird. Like, I don't know. I guess I felt like we were sort of, I felt like I was stuck in a bad television show or play of the family gets together and does a few things and goes out to dinner. It just felt very weird. [00:05:30]

I mean thankfully, my parents did not really, did not to attempt to engage me in anything emotionally, which was great. Also, it's weird. Like, it's my birthday. You should, I would like to do something, but I guess with probably $200 worth of groceries and taking me out to dinner is also something, so I shouldn't complain too much. I asked my mom to pay for, to pay for some of my therapy. I figured she will. She had offered before and also you are the cause of it. I didn't say it to her. So, that was sort of good. [00:06:30]

Again, I said mom, I would like some money for my therapy and a sewing class here and if you could give me, if you could me out to visit one of my friends it would be really great and her reply was like oh, I already thought of giving you plane tickets to visit Jamie. Of course I'll pay for part of your therapy. Blah, blah, blah. Then, when we were leaving, she again just got very really like she was reluctant to write the check. Which she does tend to get weirdly reluctant to write a check to me in front of my dad. I don't know why because obviously they have a shared banking account. My mom is the one who handles the finances, but still, it's like I assume she tells him. [00:07:30]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I don't know. Yeah. It was just like a really miserable day. I wasn't really feeling much of anything most of the day. It was just like I want to get through this day. I don't think it hurts to leave. The next day I had been invited to go to a friend's house to watch Scandal and have lunch. I ended up declining because I was just like sitting and drinking a cup of coffee and realized I was just starting to cry. So, I thought I would try to lie down and lay in bed and I cried off and on. [00:08:30]

That was my Sunday. I laid in bed a lot. I cried a little bit, but didn't really feel sad as much as I was just crying. I felt really, I don't know, like, out of it and one of my friends had invited me to go get something for dinner this weekend and I was like I can't. I really need to be busy. I'm very occupied being depressed and stressed about my parents, so I can't do anything else right now. [00:09:30]

It still half feels like it didn't really happen to me or just it didn't really happen. It's sad. (pause) I don't know how to describe how I feel about a lot of things. Except that also my parents did do, Ashby had an experience with my parents. Basically, she just sort of dropped a huge information bomb in the middle of dinner over a casual conversation. So, we're having dinner and I asked my mom something and she's like oh, yeah, did you know your cousin Daniel now has twins? So, one of my cousins, he has a daughter that I knew about who is like 15. He just discovered that he also has one year old twin boys. The mother had never told him until now and hadn't been asking him for child support, but wants him to have more custodial. Some things she thinks that the boys need a man in their life. [00:11:00]

So, he was surprised he has been getting custody and his long term girlfriend has stomach cancer, which I didn't know. I was like yeah, but apparently it's very caught early and very treatable or something. So, that was really weird. I was like okay. That's a lot of information that maybe you could have mentioned earlier. They also mentioned that not related to me, but when Will's mother died a year ago. I mean she was in her 90s, but I'm still kind of (inaudible). [00:12:00]

I mean my parents do this a lot, where they just don't mention major events until like six months or a year later or more. This is sort of an accumulation of the things that have happened to my father's family in the last year that they haven't mentioned. Also, adding that one of my cousins is getting my other cousin in to paying him rent on property he doesn't own, so that was also a thing. I don't know. My mom was also telling me this in kind of a like oh, you know, so that happened. Ashby was just kind of staring at my mom like what's happening and afterwards said it was incredibly surreal to her, eating fish and casually discussing. My mom's thing about why the mother of my cousin's twin sons had never told him that she had kids was because he was in jail and there was just no point.

THERAPIST: Oh, I see. [00:13:30]

CLIENT: I was like well, but, he hasn't been in jail for a while and there was just no point in trying to get child support while he was in jail. It just didn't seem like the most, I don't know, like it didn't make sense to me, but it made sense to her. (pause) I noticed also having to like so the results are like some story that my mom is telling me about how one of my uncles had like, most of my uncles will help a family member out which they do periodically and one of them wanted some money, so he gave two thousand dollars to my cousin Daniel. I'm like because he needed it. He didn't have any money. It was this sort of problem that they ended up in. Actually, it was a joke that my uncle had given Daniel the money because my uncle is super cheap and would never hand someone over two thousand dollars. [00:15:00]

Which also then made me feeling really awkward about being like so, do you think you could give me some money?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: In approximately an hour.

THERAPIST: Right. So, your mother was the one making joke?

CLIENT: Well, she was describing how she hadn't realized it was a joke at first. She was like oh, at first she was had this whole thing where like she thought it was weird that it had happened and then she thought oh, maybe he was just giving Daniel money and said that he wanted it because Daniel is too proud to take money, except that sometimes he's not. So, she had this whole thing and then she's like oh, it was a joke about someone else being cheap.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:16:00]

CLIENT: I'm still not quite sure how it was a joke exactly, but I'm just accepting it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know. My parents and not just my parents, but also like some of my other, my father's, relatives will sit there and make comments about how my cousin Daniel like doesn't want to take money, except that sometimes he does. He's very weird about asking for help. My father and his siblings have been known to get in to serious grabbing the bill intensity to pay. I'm always like okay. That's cool, but I think you are getting a little excessive at times. One time there was a sort of grabbing the bill and then it turns out one of my uncles had told the host at the beginning of the meal, put it on my card and that's subverting everyone. I was just like guys, chill out. Just let someone pay or don't pay.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Don't get crazy about it. They were like oh, well, you know, you just don't understand that sometimes you really want to treat someone. I'm like yeah, but I said well, okay, but I don't need to get in to a fight about it. The sort of joke was that I am willing to let people pay for me. [00:17:40]

THERAPIST: Oh, I see.

CLIENT: And I should maybe argue about it more or that you're supposed to argue about it more.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Which I'm kind of uncomfortable with. Yes, I am willing to let people buy me dinner, but I'm also willing to pay for my dinner. If someone has more money than me, I'm totally willing to let them buy me dinner. I don't know. (pause) (silence from 00:18:20 through 21:00:00)

I think one thing I do wonder is what my parents, did my parents enjoy their visit? I do worry if they got that I was, knew that I was upset. If that was the thing that they thought about. I didn't want to talk to them about it.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I don't know. The whole, I guess I just also have a lot of, I feel weird about them having driven down here and then like they said they drove four hours to have dinner and then drive back. [00:22:00]

I didn't want them to, but there was no way it wasn't going to happen. So, I don't know. The whole experience just felt so false. Part of it for me the falseness is not really knowing if that was apparent to anyone else kind of mainly because I told her.

THERAPIST: Right. What I, I got the impression as well that really your mother is entirely in control of the situation and what happens.

CLIENT: Is or is not?

THERAPIST: Is, actually. I don't mean she's like sort of consciously being manipulative, but the way she keeps you off balance is really remarkable and I think maybe it's the way she kind of completely paralyzes you in that you can't, like, there's something about how she makes plans and says things, does things to you that leaves you sort of unable to kind of resist or negotiate apart from just keeping her out and at arm's length when you can. Although, sometimes you can't. [00:24:30]

CLIENT: Yeah. Like this weekend.

THERAPIST: You can't really think about what's going on while it's going on or some of what is being done to you and you can only kind of, almost like indirectly or very harshly feel what it's like. What she is doing to you. Meaning that you were crying the next day. Meaning you wanted to get through it and you didn't want them to come. You know, you feel out of it. Those are sort of, they seem to me kind of more indications that you're having very strong feelings than they are sort of are clearly articulated strong feelings in a way. [00:25:45]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean there are specific experiences, but they are also sort of have been removed.

CLIENT: Yeah. I have the symptoms of being really fucking upset, but I don't actually.

THERAPIST: You're not in touch with it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: With being really upset. It seems to me that has something to do with the sort of control that she exerts or that from your side that you feel hurt. Over you in a way she keeps you off balance. I think you're sort of, you react to that by becoming really quite passive and as part of that like losing your capacities to think and have more contact with what you feel and take action. I mean I know when it's things like making plans with them before they come. There's negotiation there and you can push and you can avoid and you can get out of time spent. I mean like once they're here. Yeah. [00:27:25]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I don't know about her words, but those are some thoughts that I have. Sorry.

CLIENT: One of the things I was thinking that was one of the things I thought about this trip is sort of, I mean my parents didn't really tell me when they were going to come, like what time. So, I spent the week trying to be like so, how about we do this or this? What do you think? It was just like a series of my mom was like oh, I thought we could go to this garden. I'm not really interested. We could go to the sculptural museum on Saturday and she's like, nope. The weather's too bad to go to that. I was like okay. How about the museum or a movie? She's like no, your dad doesn't like those movies. So, it was this very like, not so much negotiation as no, like, both of us are saying no a lot. [00:28:40]

THERAPIST: Yeah. There's really not any. The only communication you described actually through the whole visit is the (inaudible), really.

CLIENT: Yeah. Part of that also is that my mom makes me feel that she is like conveying facts that are unrelated to feelings. I can be kind of surprised that Daniel has surprise twins, but it happened and you have to just accept it. Does it happen, you just, it, I don't know. It's this kind of weird like. I mean I had kind of a strong reaction.

THERAPIST: Oh?

CLIENT: I just said like. I was feeling anxious. Yeah.

THERAPIST: You often have very strong emotional reactions to things. I don't mean, not in a bad way.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: Not at all. You just, you seem sort of, you feel things strongly sometimes which people do.

CLIENT: Yeah. My mom was very much like nope. Similarly, when they told us his girlfriend had stomach cancer.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So, they called my parents about it and he really loves her and relies on her a lot to be mutually supportive and my mom was kind of weirdly judgmental that he was very upset. She's like, he was like falling apart and sort of it was like why was he doing it that way? I'm like I don't know, because his long term girlfriend has cancer and he's worried she's going to die and he has been convinced for years that he was going to die before he was 35. He turned 35 this year. [00:31:00]

Yeah. It didn't feel okay even sort of, I don't know, it didn't feel okay to say anything about it because I was worried that that would then lead up to my mom to start discussing how I'm feeling. How I was overreacting. (pause) [00:32:00]

I mean I would also expect my dad to have a lot of feelings about (inaudible), but he tends to just not say anything about it unless I ask him really directly. Even then, it's still kind of like weirdly veiled. (pause) Also, even though I really didn't want to talk to them about us having a fight and me being upset, it was also weird to have my parents act like nothing happened. [00:33:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. I think in a sort of a like, maybe in kind of a subtle and sort of an unusual way, your mom is incredibly aggressive.

CLIENT: Yeah. She really is. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean sort of pushing all the time and drops these bombs and goes after you if you have a reaction to them is very aggressive. It's very intrusive and really I think feels quite disturbing. (pause) [00:34:20]

CLIENT: Yeah. Part of what's difficult for me about her when she's very aggressive is the way that she insists that she's not and also there's no, she doesn't acknowledge what she's doing or what's happening, so it's very hard to say can you stop doing that?

THERAPIST: Yeah. That seems to me to be part of it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Is that she just sort of. Yeah. I don't think she sort of consciously means to do it. I really don't think she does. The fact that it obliterates any point of view you might have that's different from hers.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean it's sort of like that sort of thing cannot exist.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's also, it's so tough. It also becomes very alienating.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:35:45]

CLIENT: Especially when she decides there is something that I like or enjoy that I don't particularly. Like, she's decided in the last couple of years that because I access my actual cats, that I must want lots of like cat type things.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I'm like no. I don't have any in my house.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I don't express an interest in them.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But, she'll give them to me and be like look, I got what you wanted.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I'll say okay.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That's not what I wanted. I don't know. I feel like I've her daughter for a really long time.

THERAPIST: Pretty much your whole life as far that goes. [00:36:45]

CLIENT: Yeah. Pretty much and I've pretty much been the same like, overall same person as a daughter.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, I just, it's just pretty mind blowing she gets like really focused on this version of me that doesn't really exist.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Or like I get upset over the same things that I have been getting upset for and she's still surprised.

THERAPIST: Yeah. When you described to me that, today for example, really aside from her paying for things, you haven't really described any instances of her like acknowledging you. Who you are and how you're different to her. Her reaction to things. Rather, what you describe is an effort to really obliterate this thing. [00:38:20]

CLIENT: Yeah. This always makes me like, I don't know. Not always, but I guess because I was having a lot of has she always been like this? Is this new? You know? Are we having more conflicts because I'm older and have a more established personality or like whatever? I don't know. I guess what I think is in terms of is this new? Well, if I knew me the last decade or so, sure, but it's not exactly new. (pause) [00:39:40]

I also find it really frustrating the ways in which, I mean I'm sure I'm enabling her too, but in which my brother and my dad will try to act as if she's being totally normal or reasonable. Basically, why should I be upset? Which I, for many reasons, but also it makes me feel more isolated and like I guess I just go on really there being like yeah, that was really crappy. That was weird. (pause) My brother has somewhat learned how to talk more about how he feels about things which is nice, but I guess both of us have this around my mom doing crazy things. [00:41:30]

We have a hard time shaking loose from it. I don't know. Some of it seems like he feels like it's inevitable. Like, that's just what going to happen, but also kind of excuses it, her behavior. Like, you know, well, she just can't do this or she can't do that. I don't agree with him and also even if that's true, it sucks. [00:42:45]

It's just such a weird, I just feel so uncomfortable being around my parents right now. It feels like when I'm visiting distant relatives that I don't know very well, except that they're my parents. I'm like I don't want to really get my father anything for Father's Day or for his birthday, but I'm going to because it would hurt his feelings and long term my brother's wouldn't do that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:43:30]

CLIENT: The other thing is I also feel like super confident that they're, my mom is not being entirely truthful about how my dad is doing particularly or how she is doing physically. My dad basically stopped reading books. Period.

THERAPIST: Oh?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Do you know why or what that relates to with his health?

CLIENT: Nope. I have no idea. I asked him. At first he said that he was feeling tired and he wanted to read like short fiction or nonfiction. This is the day he said he just isn't reading. In retirement he has discovered wiki holes and Wikipedia.

THERAPIST: Oh, the wiki hole?

CLIENT: Yeah. He follows the wiki hole and two hours later he was like I was just looking up the capital of Luxemburg. What happened? So, he has been doing that and that's about and he's watching more television than he used to. I don't know. Is he just like I'm retired I can do what I want? Is he having a hard time maintain his attention span? Is there something wrong with his eyes? I just sort of like can't get anything. He just lost it all and my mom sounds vaguely concerned, but won't say anything which is pretty par for the course for them. So, I don't think I have a way to find out and also if I sound too worried, I think my parents would put more effort in to lying about it.

THERAPIST: We should stop.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I will see you next week.

CLIENT: Okay. Thanks.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

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