TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:00:08) (Pause) You okay to stay [until 5:00] (ph)?

CLIENT: Yeah, sure.

THERAPIST: Sorry.

CLIENT: So... it just feels different today. What's up? What's going on?

THERAPIST: Yeah? In here?

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: In here it does?

CLIENT: Yeah. New light bulb maybe?

THERAPIST: Maybe I got a brighter... I got a brighter...

CLIENT: That might be. It does feel a bit brighter.

THERAPIST: Well, what do you notice, though?

CLIENT: I don't know. The light seems different. That's always been there, though.

THERAPIST: That's always been there, yeah. [0:00:54] Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know. It feels different.

THERAPIST: Huh. That plant's new. But that's... that was...that's two... I brought that in last week.

CLIENT: Yeah, (crosstalk). I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I'll have a couch in here...

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: Yeah, not until July.

CLIENT: That's fun (ph).

THERAPIST: But I'll have... it's actually... it's a psychoanalytic couch, so it's not...

CLIENT: (Chuckling) Oh, really?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not going... (crosstalk)

CLIENT: A psychoanalytic couch.

THERAPIST: Psychoanalytic couch, yeah.

CLIENT: How does that work? What's that about?

THERAPIST: So for people that prefer to lie down and look away...

CLIENT: Oh, okay. So it's here, the high end's over there.

THERAPIST: It's going to be there. It's actually just a platform with a cushion on it. It's nothing fancy.

CLIENT: Hmm.

THERAPIST: And... (Pause) Yeah, people can just lie and look that way and...

CLIENT: Oh, of course, because some people actually want that...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because this is difficult for them. Okay.

THERAPIST: Yes. Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: Oh, wow. [0:01:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. [Sure the experience of others has widened my view] (ph). Okay, great.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Cool. Huh.

THERAPIST: Yes, so it'll be making an appearance.

CLIENT: Good for them. Good for them. Good for you. Good for you.

THERAPIST: So that'll be a change.

CLIENT: Yeah. I walked home from here last Monday, which was fun. About an hour and a half.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah, to walk... I guess I went a little... but you know what, I went slowly and stopped, picked up a sandwich. But yeah, it's not so bad. I walked from here.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah?

CLIENT: Although I walked from... okay, that's took an hour and a half.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I just kind of took a left after (sp?)...

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Because eventually... I'll just walk, I'll get to Cole eventually. And I went way out by Main. There's some really nice parts of Georgetown.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah. So you walked down Main Street?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: How far down Main did you go? [0:02:56]

CLIENT: I don't know. After a while, I was like... it's like, this is... took my iPhone, I'm like, oh, I'm way off of the...

THERAPIST: It's nice, though. It's nice.

CLIENT: Yeah, but turned back towards Cole eventually. So yeah, I don't know.

THERAPIST: A lot of people actually like to walk around there because it's...

CLIENT: It's nice.

THERAPIST: Homes, yeah.

CLIENT: It's really nice, yeah. So that was good, that was a nice little walk.

THERAPIST: Then you... so you cut back, went to Cole, and then...

CLIENT: And then I walked Cole up to Willow, and then Willow to home. So...

THERAPIST: How far from Willow are you?

CLIENT: 20 minutes.

THERAPIST: It's a 20 minute walk?

CLIENT: 20 minute walk, yeah. 25 to 30 for most people. But I'm a brisk walker. (Pause) Yeah. (Pause) [0:03:54]

THERAPIST: That's a deceptively long walk.

CLIENT: Yeah, it was somewhere from... (Pause) God, it was fast, it was ridiculous. Google Maps was like, yeah, it takes you 22 minutes. But Owen was like, yeah, well, there assuming three-minute mile. You can go faster than that. I'm like, yeah. It was something like ten. It was ridiculous.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: But my feet were killing me at the end. I was like... I've got to do this on principle. I should have just taken 22 minutes. Who fucking cares?

THERAPIST: Yeah, three miles an hour is slow, it's a slow walk. But doing that in half the... if you were doing six miles an hour, that's pretty fast.

CLIENT: Well, I almost [did it] (ph) as a run.

THERAPIST: That's run. That's jogging speed.

CLIENT: Yeah. Seriously. But I did not. And so... I walked instead.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Yeah. I walked down to meet my... it's funny, to meet my drug dealer the other day, down in Georgetown. And (pause) just so great, just so great. [0:04:57] I have always gone through intermediaries. In high school it was Paul (sp?). Paul was always the one who got the weed for us. And then in college it was various people. But basically always, almost always...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: It was me sending someone else to get it and coming back with it. I got very uncomfortable (crosstalk)...

THERAPIST: So you don't get pinched or something?

CLIENT: That's part of it, yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: It's very uncomfortable, drug deals. I was always worried I was going to get stabbed or robbed or police were going to come in or something. And this is in college, these are ridiculous fears to have, at least in the place I was. There was one core drug dealer in town, and his name was Trevor. He was a friend of ours. And he just sold weed, but he sold a lot of weed. And he lived within literal throwing distance of the police station. You could just pick up a ball, throw it, ten feet down the driveway and across the street... [0:06:00]

THERAPIST: You throw a bag of pot off (ph) (chuckling)...

CLIENT: (Chuckling) Yes. The cops actually (ph) didn't care about weed. They just didn't give a shit. And they liked Trevor, because they're like (pause), this is where the weed comes from. He's like, if something else is going through town, we want to hear about it. And he's like, sure. I'll let you know.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: He would, and they would deal with it.

THERAPIST: Is that right? Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. Western Chicago justice is really interesting. It just kind of gets done without doing a lot of paperwork. Harold cops were the people who'd show up at your house and be like, hey.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: This is no good, and you can't be doing this. And people would be like, oh, okay, we'll stop. You're okay, as long as it stops it was not an issue. And, when it doesn't stop and when you're being dicks about it, they come to your house with the fire department to give a safety inspection. They take all your pot plants and smash them on the ground. [0:06:58] And that's what happens.

THERAPIST: We'll play rough, but only if you're not...

CLIENT: Yeah, but only if you're not going to be cool.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And that's really the entire thing. It's like five cops for two college areas and security guards on each campus. But it's like...

THERAPIST: What was the other college?

CLIENT: Harold State?

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: On the other side of the one street, yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: That campus was a prison, just these cold concrete buildings. You had to get buzzed into every single one of them.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Every... of course [everything is uniform] (ph), but there's these long gray hallways with fluorescent lights.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I was only there a couple times, the first time to watch South Park, because they got the channel over there we couldn't get in Harold, and the other time to hook up with this girl, which was nice. [0:07:56] So... but in any case intermediaries. And...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I remember the Harold cops (inaudible at 0:08:05) he was smoking weed in the apartment over the summer, a lot of weed in his apartment. And he was playing the stereo really loud, smoking a lot of weed. And someone calls the cops for a noise complaint. Cop's slamming on the door. Kid's like, what? It's like, police, open up. He's like, oh fuck, I'm fucked. And he opens the door, and the guy's like, there's a noise complaint? So turn down your stereo a lot. Oh, okay. And he's like, and you should light some fucking incense in here (chuckling), and he just walks off. And he's like, okay, I will. So he started out and got some incense.

THERAPIST: Within the...?

CLIENT: Yeah, so it's like, we don't want to fucking arrest some college kid...

THERAPIST: Yes. Yeah.

CLIENT: With this ridiculous (inaudible at 0:08:58). So at the same time on the other side of that coin... so in western Chicago the big issue is criminal vandalism and incest. [0:09:03] Those are the big things that end up breaking down. This is what the sheriff actually... sheriff of the area was telling me.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And couple towns over actually... in terms of the road where Johnson did his whole thing...

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That's that area?

CLIENT: Yeah, that's where...

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Yeah. That's the story that was told to me, so if that's wrong then blame my college. But... (Pause) So in any case there was this guy who it was generally understood was hurting children, except (pause) he never... no one ever arrested him for it. [0:10:02]

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Instead one day they just found him beaten to death in the middle of the street, and nobody had seen a thing.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: And a cop was quoted as saying, some people just need killing.

THERAPIST: Ah. Huh.

CLIENT: And that was it. That was the end of it. It's like...

THERAPIST: But they... so there's almost (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: It was just dealt with.

THERAPIST: Yeah, somebody watching, though. Somebody doing something.

CLIENT: Yeah, right. It's like, action, we take action.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And the judge in Harold... he was also a mentor of mine in my last year of college. He was great. He was like, people come into my courtroom. I'm like, you got this speeding ticket for this much money. He's like, the thing is, too, I don't care. But this much money goes to the state. It's like, you're being screwed here. It's like... and he's like, you should fight it on these grounds and try to get it down to something or other, and then we'll deal with that. [0:11:00] And he'd tell people how to get through the system. He's like, this is ridiculous, and here's how you're going to deal with this the best way possible.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And other times he'd just be like, you fucked up, and we can't have this. So the slumlord of Harold, quite literally. He would buy the shittiest apartments and then leave them a fucking mess and charge way more than they were worth. And he tried to screw over all the other landlords one year.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) Oh.

CLIENT: He's obviously not (ph) really clever, if you...

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: Well, because he started imposing... he's like, these are these rules that all these properties now have to follow for safety measures, and... because he knew a lot of guys who had apartments that didn't match these. So they'd all have to shell out money.

THERAPIST: So what? He had some influence with the government (crosstalk)?

CLIENT: Well, he just... he really pushed for it.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: And he did it under the guise of, well, it's just for safety.

THERAPIST: It's a political move.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. And the judge was like... this is...I recommend against this. This is not necessary, what we're doing. And he's more like, I think we can just tell these guys they should put fire escapes on their house, and that can be it. [0:12:08] But people are, no, we want more safety and blah blah blah. And he's like, all right. So they got it. And then Tyler Cook's like, ha ha ha, pointing the finger. The judge's like, okay, but now we have to look at your places.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And he was like, what, because his places were in violation of his own rules. And for some reason he never thought they'd come to him.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: And he thought he'd do this whole thing where he's going to screw everyone else...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Because they all have to pay out more money to fix these things, and he'd be able to... I don't know, profit from that some place, somehow by offering slightly better rates, but still more than he was already offering?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Something like that. And... but no, then he got fucked. He got totally fucked by it. And McRae was like, you're an asshole. You're just an unpleasant asshole, and... [0:12:54]

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:12:53) but he wasn't above the law, so to speak, or...

CLIENT: Right. Well, and the judge was just very much like, you're an asshole, so I'm going after you. We're making this an issue.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: He lived up on a hill with the rest of his clan, very Scottish, very old school Scottish. Really cool stuff.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And... no, he was just great.

THERAPIST: But kind of the benign authority figure that still could impose...

CLIENT: Yeah. (Crosstalk) exactly. It's like, no, this is the way it should be.

THERAPIST: Also didn't fuck around.

CLIENT: Yeah, he was just very much of the opinion, the law is there to be enforced when it needs to be. If there's a problem that you want to solve, the law can be there to be enforced on that. He's like, otherwise we should just ignore it. And he's like, it's not important.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: The law is not important. The law is a tool to be used when something gets out of hand.

THERAPIST: That's interesting. The name of the father.

CLIENT: Is that a movie? [0:13:59]

THERAPIST: Well, it's a... I think Freud and Lacan talked about that, the importance of that, of... I mean, I think they saw the father as both... in real terms, the real, but also the symbolic enforcer of order, limits boundaries, consequences. And how it's done is very critical to people's (pause) (chuckling), well, safety the world? And how I was thinking about it was that, there is no name of the father with your mother. There's nobody able to kind of have some sort of order or...

CLIENT: Well, the order was arbitrary. The order was whatever was passed down in these books written by a dude, and...

THERAPIST: Yes. [0:14:56] It could be kind of contorted around whatever...

CLIENT: Whatever fake bullshit some (inaudible at 0:15:03) wrote in the 1800s when they wanted to start a religion so they could fuck children.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And ambiguously open enough so you can use it for your own purposes, whenever your mood struck you...

CLIENT: Yeah, totally. And just... well, it's like all scripture, right? You can open any of those books and find a reason to hate people and discriminate and hold yourself superior to others.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's really easy to do that, and...

THERAPIST: That's totally what happens. That's...

CLIENT: So we talk about the church, how little respect you should have for any woman intellectually, where, just across the board, we should all disrespect that actively, to the point where it's almost like, I'm religious. You should be like, I have no respect for your intellect. I just don't, it's gone now.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You've told me you believe in a specific, obviously made-up religion. [0:15:56] I have no respect for you. Similar to Scientology. If you come out [like, Scientology's] (ph) the shit, I no longer have respect for you.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: If you're doing this as a political power play, fine. That's fine. That's what that's for, but don't tell me you believe it, because then I have a problem with you. If you're like, this science fiction author wrote a science fiction religion and now I believe it, I have a problem.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah. And actually what you encountered was, the church would sanction a lot of the chaos (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: Well, yes, because of the idea of personal revelation. You familiar with this? This is one of the things that the church operates on...

THERAPIST: No, what is it?

CLIENT: It's that sometimes God will say, to you, this is something you should do. And you have to bring it to the church as, God told me this. And there's really one of two ways they can deal with that. [0:16:53] They can be like, great, let's figure out how to make God's word work for us humans, try to implement your idea. Or they're like, you have been misled by a false witness...

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: Because the devil also reveals stuff to you, but... so as to trick you. So (laughing) what is that?

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk)

CLIENT: If this is not a system by which one can resolve truth, this is not a system by which one can class reality.

THERAPIST: What is that?

CLIENT: If this is not a system by which one can reconcile truth, this is not one... this isn't one by which we can devise reality. If we cannot resolve conflicts...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: If it's, God told me this, no, the devil told me that...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: We are stuck now. [In the end, you've got] (ph) one thing right. A logical realist talking with a person of faith. [0:17:54] Logical realist can present a logical statement. And the person of faith can then either become a logical realist or continue the conversation. And that's all that happens. And when you say God and I say the devil all we can do is continue the conversation.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: There can be no resolution. I can't convince you or prove logically... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So (ph) you continue the conversation.

THERAPIST: So...

CLIENT: And you can submit to it. That's your option. You either remain a logical realist or you become a person of faith and submit to my proposed reality.

THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah, so continuing the conversation means what? You would...?

CLIENT: Just keep going, no, no, you're wrong. It's definitely seven days. It says right in the Bible. It's like, clearly it can't be seven days. Could we even accept perhaps it was a metaphor written by first people? Nope, nope, nope. [0:18:56]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It is seven days, literally, exactly, it says so in the Bible. So why do you believe that? It says so in the Bible. What evidence exists? The Bible is the evidence. I mean, that sort of ridiculous bullshit.

THERAPIST: It's tautological.

CLIENT: Yes. So [in all that, all messed up] (ph). But the thing about this religion in particular is that you can prove that it's fake. You can pick up the book , and you can be like, this is a lie. And people will say, how? You're like, well, because the grammar was awful until they slowly corrected it over the years. It was the grammar of a young man who'd never gone to school.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Double negatives, all sorts of crazy bullshit. And people'd be like, oh, well, those were the words he had. It's like, no, that's not what he said. What he said was, he saw each word slowly coalesce in front of him...

THERAPIST: Ah. [0:19:58]

CLIENT: (Crosstalk) and so he saw each one clearly and perfectly. So he said it was a perfect translation. Step one. So clearly it wasn't... also what's interesting is... (Pause) Yeah, so all that bullshit. Horses. So are you familiar with the basic story of the book, how it works?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: Okay, so there's these people. Genealogy's important to them, and they have to go and leave the city because there's this evil guy. They have to go back into the city, to steal the genealogy, their family history from the bad guy who wouldn't give it back to them. And so they go, and God tells them it's okay to kill him, all right, as long as they do so in his sleep. So they kill him in his sleep, steal the books, go back out in the desert where they live. Tower of Babel happens at one point...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:20:57]

CLIENT: And the dude is like, dear God, please make it so that my family and I can speak the same language. And God's like, okay, fine. He's like, and please make it so that our closest friends can all speak the same language as we do. And God's like, okay, fine.

THERAPIST: This is all in the book?

CLIENT: Yeah. So they flee to (inaudible at 0:21:23), and God teaches them how to make submarines...

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: And then they make submarines, and they go with their magic light stones that God touches with his giant finger. They see a giant finger come out of the sky and touch rocks...

THERAPIST: And that's the power source?

CLIENT: Yeah, that's their light source...

THERAPIST: The light source.

CLIENT: As they travel across the sea.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: So they travel across the sea, and they get to Central America. And they spread across all of America building these enormous cities...

THERAPIST: Huh. [0:21:55]

CLIENT: To very specific specifications, because they're a culture of war, all right, because they're constantly at war with the various factions within their people. And so they build these fortresses, these cities with the fortresses. They're very specific distances and specifications the way each city is built. And they ride horses and chariots. And they have honeybees from which they harvest honey. Honey is... honeybees feature heavily in church iconography. In fact...

THERAPIST: That's right, Utah is (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 0:22:39). So all this happens. But then you have to... people are like, oh yeah, no, it's great. And like, okay. There were no horses here. We brought horses from Europe to America. There were no horses here until we brought them. Nor were there any honeybees until we brought them. [0:23:00] It's like, so all the stuff he's talking about, these things did not exist...

THERAPIST: Until they brought them.

CLIENT: They were not here. Yes. So clearly this history of yours is made up. He (ph) was a 20-year-old boy shortly after the Civil War, had no way (pause), absolutely no way to know that there'd never been horses here, that there'd never been honeybees...

THERAPIST: That's when he discover... he's discovered this book that's telling him this, right?

CLIENT: He's discovered this book, yeah, exactly.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: This book he wrote talks about horses and chariots and cities. And then people are like, where are these cities? Where are these enormous cities?

THERAPIST: And does the book explain this?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: No, it's like... because he didn't have to back then, because nobody had been all the way out west. No one was doing archaeology.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: None of this stuff was happening.

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: People didn't know the history of horses. People didn't know the history of honeybees. This wasn't a thing that was common knowledge...

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: To the point where a traveling salesman was coming through selling curiosities. [0:24:03] And he had an Egyptian papyrus with hieroglyphs on it. And Joseph Smith bought it for $200 in those days. Quite a lot of money, and... which he must have pooled through the church tithe (ph) and everything. He's like, this is the Book of Abraham. This is the lost Book of Abraham. And people are like, oh my God. He's like, and I can translate it, because I have the ability. They're like, oh, sweet.

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: So he's like... I believe that's called the Pearl of Great Price. So it's an entire book off a papyrus maybe this wide when it's totally unrolled with hieroglyphs.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: So he translates an entire book from this.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: And they revere it as this holy relic, until later, sometime in the 1900s, when people are like, oh, we can read hieroglyphs now. [0:24:58] Someone's like, let's go read that, and see what that says. And it's not a book. It's just the beginning of a funeral ceremony for a (inaudible at 0:25:06) horse.

THERAPIST: Mmm. (Chuckling) Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: It's like, hey, when you get to the afterlife, I hope your eyes still work. I hope your heart still beats. I hope your ears still here. It's that sort of funerary rite. And that's all it is. And most of it's not even here. So that's...

THERAPIST: Oh, okay, it was just a chunk of it.

CLIENT: That's what this is. Yeah, this is like a one-page document...

THERAPIST: Oh, interesting.

CLIENT: About a funeral for this (inaudible at 0:25:27) horse.

THERAPIST: So the document, people found this document (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: Yeah, and the church doesn't want to talk about it anymore.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: And once they do they're like, oh, well, he saw the hieroglyphs, and that inspired him to get the translation of the Book of Abraham. And that's how they try to explain it.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Never mind the fact that the man (ph) was obviously a con artist. And so now you just have fact, facts to look at. [0:25:54] Joseph Smith presented a book as something he had translated from God, as a literal history of the first Americans. This is what he said.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: A literal history of the first Americans, in which several facts are stated, which we know now are false. We just know it. It's... you cannot argue this.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: There are no remains of chariots in the western world.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: There's no, oh, look, ancient chariots. There is no such thing. There are no horse skeletons. There are no honeybees. There...

THERAPIST: And the church will not respond to this, right?

CLIENT: No, they're... well, what they do respond to is... well, they didn't mean horses. They meant deer. They're like, because that's what the word translated to him, because he understood horses. Yes, but he also understood deer.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And Ginny hears this, she's just like, you can't ride deer. And it's like, that's true, you can't ride deer. But they're trying to... they always try to explain all this away. Oh, lot of hand-waving. Well, God intended something. [0:26:59] God doesn't intend us to understand why these things don't make sense.

THERAPIST: Right, and so you can always... they can always default to that place.

CLIENT: God doesn't want us to question. Do not question the scripture...

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: is a literal line from the book.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Do not think too long...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: On these matters of scripture.

THERAPIST: Yeah, do not think too long.

CLIENT: Do not think too long on that, because the devil will get in there. And he'll start making doubts in your head.

THERAPIST: That's the devil, yeah.

CLIENT: Doubt is the voice of the devil.

THERAPIST: Doubt is the voice of the devil. Wow. It's funny, I was listening... I was thinking of you because I heard this interview with this guy who's... he's an actor on Mad Men. And he was talking about he was raised Church and... in New Orleans or somewhere in Louisiana. It wasn't New Orleans, it was close by. There weren't many churches there. And he was... didn't know that it was a different religion and everything. [0:27:57] And so one day he's at school, and somebody knows that he's religious, gives him a pamphlet. It shows all the things that are problematic about the Church theology.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And he's upset by it but kind of open-minded. Well, I wonder how the people would respond to this. He brings it to them. They say... they take it away from him and say, yeah, don't think about this. You shouldn't even be reading this stuff.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And he said, that's the last day (laughing) I believed, I was religious.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's like, okay, yeah, I'm done now.

THERAPIST: I'm done.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And he... yeah.

CLIENT: Don't even think about that. These are disturbing questions. Don't think about this. Give us 10% of everything you make.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And just... and good things will happen to you.

THERAPIST: Good things will happen to you.

CLIENT: And they will, because you go on church welfare. If you can't pay your rent, they'll be like, well, we see you're up to date on your tithing. You're having a hard month. So we're going to cover your rent this month. [0:28:58] We lived on church welfare a great deal.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Oh yes. Very much...

THERAPIST: I know you got the food.

CLIENT: Yeah, (crosstalk) sometimes they'd pay our heat bill.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Sometimes they'd pay the rent, yeah. I mean, that's one benefit of the church. It's a club, where, as long as you pay them 10% of everything you make and try to bring new club members in, they'll take care of you. And so that's great. I really like that aspect. But it's what you have to give up. What do you have to give up?

THERAPIST: Yeah, what a complicated thing, yes.

CLIENT: Yeah, you give up your individuality. That's what you give up. And...

THERAPIST: Yes, and your ability to doubt (chuckling) and think.

CLIENT: And your ability to doubt and question. Right, exactly. Just to believe what is told to you by some dude who read it in a book.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Wow.

CLIENT: It's still very apostolistic, but... although... but it does have some Gnostic qualities to it. It's like... there's this dude who's given the authority to speak for God (inaudible at 0:30:00). [0:30:01] But God does speak to individuals sometimes, unless we don't like what they have to say...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: In which case, the devil is confusing them.

THERAPIST: That's the devil.

CLIENT: Imagine how frustrating that is in any conversation with my mother. As soon as she doesn't like your side of the argument, it's the devil. It's... you can shoot down anything...

THERAPIST: Is that what she would do?

CLIENT: Oh completely. Shuts down anything with, no, that's the devil speaking through you.

THERAPIST: Oh, so she used it?

CLIENT: Oh, of course. It's the ultimate narcissistic defense.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: That's the devil. Anything negative you're saying to me or stuff that makes me confused or question things is just the devil trying to shake my faith.

THERAPIST: And she was the arbiter of that kind of judgment.

CLIENT: Of course, God spoke directly to her all the time. I mean, when you gave her a religion that justified the voices in her head... imagine that. [0:30:55] You've been hearing voices your entire life...

THERAPIST: (Exhaling) So she saw it as voice of God.

CLIENT: And that you think are angels. But they tell you that's not how it works.

THERAPIST: That is something.

CLIENT: And the church's like, no, God speaks directly to us. She's like, well, that's what's been happening.

THERAPIST: What did you think the church made of her and these claims?

CLIENT: They thought she was odd. I don't even know which last name she's going by. She... yeah, she was a little funny.

THERAPIST: Did you make the call...? Would she tell the church about her...?

CLIENT: Oh, fast and testimony Sunday once a month. You were supposed to fast, and then the next Sunday you would give your testimony.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Why you know the church is true. It's a little game they make you play as a child. I know the church is true because... literally there's a piece of paper that says, I know the church is true because, dash. [0:31:55] And it's like, you fill in why you know the church is true. And I literally think sometimes I said, because my teachers tell me.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: And they didn't like those sorts of answers.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: They wanted me [to say] (ph) because I had a special feeling or because... we want something magical.

THERAPIST: Oh. Hmm.

CLIENT: Then, so at fast and testimony, people would get up, and they'd give their testimony. And people would roll their eyes when mother would get up there, because they're like, now we're in for it. She's going to speak for 15 to 20 minutes.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. She's giving her testimony on the spot. When the spirit would move her to play the piano, these were some of my favorite times, because, for whatever reason... over the years we just had pianos sometimes. It's like, what's this? This is a piano. How did we get a piano? I don't know. I don't know. We have one. [0:32:57] Someone just showed up and put a piano here (chuckling). She couldn't play.

THERAPIST: She couldn't.

CLIENT: No, she doesn't know how to play the piano.

THERAPIST: Oh, no.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Did she play in front of the church?

CLIENT: No, she played it for people who came over...

THERAPIST: Oh my God.

CLIENT: To show them how God moved through her.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: And it's the most amazing thing (chuckling), because she sits there. She puts her hands on the keys, and she lets her eyes roll back in her head as God moves through her. And she's just like playing stuff, but it's just noise.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: And it's discordant and cacophonous.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And there's this... it's chaos. And she's just like doing this, and she swoops down this end over here. She swoops down, she's hunched over and going crazy like she's seen in movies and whatnot. And she just rocks back and forth playing this sound. [0:33:58] And I think that's when... and no one would ever come back.

THERAPIST: Well, the music told the truth.

CLIENT: Yes, it did, didn't it? And some people were like, ah. This person is crazy.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And I think that was one of the few times people were like, ah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, the...

CLIENT: I should go. (Chuckling) It's (crosstalk)...

THERAPIST: Yes. But otherwise it kind of sanctioned it.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, because... and people'd be like, oh, wow. It's amazing. The spirit moves through you to play the piano. It's incredible. And she's like, yeah, I'll show you.

THERAPIST: And then, whoa.

CLIENT: And they're like, wow, that was really something. That was amazing. So we actually have to get going now. Sorry, we thought it was so great.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: We... [you should probably play that, we want to hear you again sometime] (ph). We're so busy.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah. Oh, I see.

CLIENT: (Crosstalk)

THERAPIST: So a woman with a complete psychotic disorder was able to kind of just go...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: They just saw her as eccentric until they heard the music. And then they knew.

CLIENT: And then they were still just like, oh, she's a little off, and never go back.

THERAPIST: They just didn't want to [look at it] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah. Of course they didn't want to look at it. [0:34:56] They'd have to start asking themselves, there's three children in this house.

THERAPIST: That's right.

CLIENT: What's going on? They're not all really skinny and pale. What's going...? No, never mind. I should probably just go.

THERAPIST: That's right.

CLIENT: And the house is a total mess. Dishes just stacked in the sink. There's still old food in that thing on the stove.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: And there's a cat somewhere, I think, or I hope so. It smells like there's a cat. When you go into these places and... most people recognize insanity. It's funny to me. I'm very (inaudible at 0:35:38). I walk into a place, I'm like, this is obviously a hoarder's house. Whatever.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: I'm like, ah, this is... I actually feel very comfortable in a place like that.

THERAPIST: [That's interesting] (ph).

CLIENT: I feel very comfortable with just boxes stacked all around me. It's just like, oh.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Piles and boxes, piles and boxes. Yeah, I feel comforted by these things... [0:36:01]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Makes sense (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Which I guess makes sense, because my office is just a total fucking mess. It's just like boxes, stuff stacked and all over the floor.

THERAPIST: It feels familiar.

CLIENT: (Crosstalk). I guess it does. I guess it feels really familiar.

THERAPIST: How about that?

CLIENT: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And that's just... and those things only exist in my personal spaces, though. I try to keep them out of regular space...

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: [And just be like] (ph)... my office is a fucking shambles.

THERAPIST: But the good kind (chuckling).

CLIENT: Yes, I guess.

THERAPIST: The good kind.

CLIENT: Every now and then I think about gradually cleaning this up and getting some nice space, some clear space. And every now and then she would do that, too. She was like, oh, it's all making me crazy, all these things. Oh, they make me so crazy. I can't think. Oh. And then after all this she would fall under these spells. She'd be... because there's so much mess she couldn't move? [0:36:56] And so she'd stumble into the rocking chair in the middle of the room and like, oh, look, if you could just please take those papers over there and stack them neatly and put them in that binder. And put the binder on the shelf. Oh, Bridget, if you could please fold those blankets up. And then she'd just direct us for the entire hour while we're cleaning the house. And she's like, oh, I feel so much better now.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause)

CLIENT: I'm having a heart attack. No, you're not. Call the ambulance. No.

THERAPIST: Jesus.

CLIENT: I mean, I remember that. I remember (inaudible at 0:37:30), she's like, I'm having a heart attack. And Bridget and I are like... I remember Bridget being, she's having a heart attack. I'm like, she's not having a heart attack. It's like, but she says she's... I'm like, she's lying. She's like, oh, I'm about to have a heart attack. Freddy (sp?), Freddy, call the ambulance. No. Call 911 for me. No. I won't do it.

THERAPIST: Had you seen it before? Is that what...?

CLIENT: Oh, that's what she does.

THERAPIST: You'd seen it and (crosstalk)?

CLIENT: Yeah, she goes... doesn't get attention. So she has this thing that happens to her.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:37:58]

CLIENT: In this case it was a heart attack. I'm (ph) having a heart attack. She may have been having a panic attack.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That may be what happened. It's very plausible. And you know what's sick about...? I can't even blame her for any of this. I can't even be like, you fucking bitch. You ruined my childhood. You fucked me up, because it's not her fault.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: It's... she's just fucked. She's completely and totally fucked. And of course I'm like, oh, but I actually make an effort to be a good person. Yes, but I can also discern reality from fiction. That's an ability I have, which she does not.

THERAPIST: To (crosstalk).

CLIENT: And the problem is there's no agency to assign her in this. What's sad is that she doesn't exist, is that she isn't real.

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: As far as anything's concerned she may as well be dead. [0:38:55] It's this whole thing where I... she may as well be dead. She doesn't know who I am.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: She doesn't know Bridget. She doesn't know who Kevin is at all, and Kevin's the one she had for the longest. I was just thinking about her on the way down. When (ph) Kevin had moved out, she was amazed. Kevin's moved out? He had his own place and his own job? What? Because he was too retarded to ride the bus.

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk)

CLIENT: You can't send him to the gym without a female gym worker to make sure that no one rapes him in the steam room...

THERAPIST: Oh my God.

CLIENT: Or tricks him into homosexual sex. (Pause) And she's like, oh, he has a learning disability. He can't learn. I'm like, he went and got his GED just by going to classes for six months. [0:39:55] That's what happened. So he went to classes for six months, and he passed the GED. And it took him six months. It took him six months, and... after a lifetime of not being in school. And the trick she did to him, the trick she did to him to keep him from going back to school... he wanted to go back to school. But she made sure he was in the retard class, with kids with serious mental retardation. And he felt... he was telling me, he's like, I went there. And I just felt so stupid that I didn't want to go back.

THERAPIST: Oh God.

CLIENT: And then stuff surprises him. It surprises my sister, too.

THERAPIST: And the school never would pick up and do something about it or (crosstalk)?

CLIENT: Yeah. Of course not. They don't have time. They've got so many crazy demented (ph) kids...

THERAPIST: [And you] (ph) guys are lining up, it sounds like.

CLIENT: They can't deal with it. They're like, oh, okay, you're moving him into the system? That seems like a great idea. [0:40:56] That's one less desk me need to deal with.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Your problem, not ours.

CLIENT: And so... yeah. Oh, you're the only one who can teach him? Fine.

THERAPIST: Fine.

CLIENT: [I'm here to write a book] (ph), but I'm the only one who can teach him. And what do you teach him? Nothing. So...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So there that is, that entire thing. But he doesn't understand how smart he is. My sister doesn't either, because she was told she was stupid her entire life. She had to repeat second grade. And my mom was like, you're creative. You're creative. You're not smart, you're creative. So use that. That'll be your thing. Your thing'll be you're creative, not that you're smart.

THERAPIST: Well, she was creating her own reality based on her needs, her own narcissistic needs.

CLIENT: Yeah, (crosstalk). Yeah, sure. Exactly. Her daughter had to be stupid, but also a whore.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And... but I remember these were telling things. My kid brother is in this math class, and... [0:41:57]

THERAPIST: Well, if she was smart then, she'd be... she'd get wise to all of this. She'd leave the mom. She'd leave her mother.

CLIENT: Sure. She'd figure it out. Right. Which they do, which we all did.

THERAPIST: Which they... which you did.

CLIENT: We left as soon as we could. As soon as we could each one of us left.

THERAPIST: Yes. She was right (chuckling).

CLIENT: And... yeah. And Kevin had no places to go other than to Bridget's for weeks at a time and then Leslie's (sp?) for two years. So...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:42:23)

CLIENT: Yeah. So... but I remember he was in this math class. And he comes back from it, he's like, [ah, huh huh] (sp?). I'm like, okay, so what happened? He was like, uh, we... it was in the class. And there was a problem, and the teacher asked what the answer was. And so I told her. And everyone kind of looked at me. And they said, how did you do that? (Laughing) And I just said, mentally? [0:42:58] And I'm like... and he's like... so I'm like, because you did it in your head. He's like, yeah. I was like, a lot of people can't do that sort of stuff in their head.

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: He's like, oh, yeah. It's like, a lot of people can't do that. That's why they looked at you that way. I'm like, it's important to remember that you can do things a lot of other people can't do. That's going to be... (Pause)

THERAPIST: What a nice thing to say, for you to say that.

CLIENT: That's going to be a thing. Well, it's truth (laughing), right?

THERAPIST: But man, no one else would have known that except you.

CLIENT: Yeah, but the reason they're amazed at you is because that's amazing.

THERAPIST: He needed to hear just that.

CLIENT: You can do that sort of math in your head. And he was like, oh. I'm like, yeah. So... and even...

THERAPIST: It's like you were giving him keys to get out of the cell.

CLIENT: (Chuckling) Yeah. He comes back from work Sunday (ph), and he's like, yeah, so I was standing there. And Benedict... Benedict's (inaudible at 0:43:50) boss, he said to this guy named Kevin... he wanted him to collect carts in the parking lot. [0:44:02] And he says, Kevin. And Kevin didn't say anything. So he goes, Kevin. And Kevin didn't say anything. So he turns to me and says, Mike, can you do this thing? And I said, yes sir. And off I went and did it. I was like, that's very good, Mike. That's... people love that.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: That's what you should do. When someone at your job says, can you do this thing, you should say yes, and then do it, because they love that. And people will reward that sort of thing. And so my sister the other day, she's complaining about other people reading. And there's things they get wrong. And she's like, what's the hell? When you're processing an entire sentence at one time, why doesn't...? I'm like, oh, most people can't do that? She's like, what? Yeah, we process sentences... we read and process sentences or parts of paragraphs pretty much instantaneously.

THERAPIST: Mmm. [0:45:00]

CLIENT: And a lot of people don't do that. She's like, well, yeah. A lot of people don't read as well as we do.

THERAPIST: Ah, uh-huh.

CLIENT: That's just... she's like, oh. I'm like, yeah. That's why we can do these things. And it's surprising. I'm like, that's why you're so good at school, which really shocked her, because she was always told she wasn't, even though she got honor awards and stuff like this and did really well in her class. Her then-husband and her family... his family would mock her, because they're all pretty dumb. And so they mock intelligence. And she was like, oh, I got this high score on this thing. They're, oh, you think you're so special, you got a high score on the thing.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay, yeah.

CLIENT: And so they mocked her for years. And so she was like, well, intelligence isn't anything to be proud of. And I'm not smart, I'm creative.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And it's still only now, where I have to be like... I'm like, yeah, I thought you were stupid for years, too, because that's what we were told. [0:45:55]

THERAPIST: yeah.

CLIENT: I was like, but we have to look at this. I'm like, genius parents don't have stupid children. It just doesn't happen. That's not genetically how it works. If both your parents are geniuses, there's a good chance you're also going to be a genius. At least that's how I think it works. That makes sense. Is that correct?

THERAPIST: Yeah, there's... I'm sure... I don't know the studies about genetic links of intelligence, but I'm sure, yeah.

CLIENT: I mean, well, something... there was a study where [they said] (ph) stupid people have stupid children, and intelligent people have smart children. And the more children you have the dumber they're going to get. It was an interesting side effect.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah.

CLIENT: And that's more (inaudible at 0:46:33). Stupid people tend to have more children as well.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) Yeah. I think your mother must have been very threatened by intelligence in Bridget and Kevin.

CLIENT: Yeah, totally.

THERAPIST: She tolerated it in you.

CLIENT: It's so weird... it's just weird ideas. They're so weird.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Just weird ideas. That's so weird. That's such a great idea, you shouldn't think like that. It's a weird idea. [0:47:01]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Very threatened or something, scared by it...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm, yeah.

THERAPIST: As she was by sexuality in Bridget and in you or Kevin.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, all these things terrified her. (Pause)

THERAPIST: And she would invoke this idea of religion and...

CLIENT: Oh, sure, the devil. The devil is always... he's the perfect crime (ph) (laughing).

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk) Yeah. Anything, anyway, she could twist it any way she wanted.

CLIENT: It's the perfect crime. Yeah.

THERAPIST: No, it was a person with really... and powerful delusions. She was... it was delusional disorder.

CLIENT: Sick. She was literally sick. I mean, that's what's happened. She is sick...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Which is a power (ph) word. [0:47:53] That was always... things are just sick.

THERAPIST: She would say what?

CLIENT: Yeah, so you're sick, is what she'd say to people, about their mental health.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Oh yeah. If you disagreed with her enough, they're just sick.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: I know. And...

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, that was a projection (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Oh yeah. I remember a time when finally all her personalities came together, and she was really her. She was like, oh my God, right now, this is really me. This is the real me right now. It's not any of my other personalities. It's just me. And I remember her being like, Luke, please come hug me while I'm me. I just want to hug you once while I'm still myself. And I would be like, no. (Pause) Like, I'm not going to come hug you.

THERAPIST: Huh. What did it mean...? Yeah, what did it mean to you?

CLIENT: I remember just thinking, even if that was really her...

THERAPIST: You believed her, but...

CLIENT: Yeah, but she didn't deserve it. No, she didn't deserve it.

THERAPIST: You didn't... she didn't deserve it. [0:48:55]

CLIENT: Why should I do anything for her?

THERAPIST: Ah. Huh.

CLIENT: I was 14 at this point. I was almost out. So I was like, why should I do anything?

THERAPIST: Why should you...? Yeah. Huh.

CLIENT: Maybe we're bringing it full circle, because when I started... yeah, actually having a regular source of marijuana-a dude I can go to directly who sells marijuana and will sell it to me-is incredibly... whatever the opposite of anxiety-making is. Calming as opposed...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Securing.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Comforting perhaps just to know that I can call him and be like, I'm going to come down, pick up some weed, and go back to my place. And I've learned from history to do this before I run out, because so often I'll be smoking weed. I'm like, oh no, I'll stop smoking weed. And then I'm like, oh God, I wish I had more weed. [0:49:56] I'm like, what I should do is instead... so I called him today. I was like, hey, this week can I come down? He's like, I'm leaving town early Thursday. I'm like, oh good, because I was going to call you on Thursday. He's like, yeah, so come out tomorrow, yesterday, so come down on Wednesday.

THERAPIST: But also a reliable source of comfort that isn't...

CLIENT: Well, yeah, I know where the weed is. I know I can get it. I trust the guy I'm getting it from. There's no sort of weird timing...

THERAPIST: No, that's...

CLIENT: Or do I have to accept a ride with someone else or have to find someone who knows this guy?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: I actually know him myself, and I trust him, and it's a safe...

THERAPIST: Right, I mean, I know it's the marijuana, too. But it's also that there's somebody that you can count on to give you some...

CLIENT: Yeah. There's... (inaudible at 0:50:37) I can always get more weed.

THERAPIST: That you can trust.

CLIENT: And that's always been the problem in the past, is, can you get more weed, because I'll pay for this, this state of, ah, things are really good now. I'll pay for it with depression at the end if I stop. [0:50:58]

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: But if I just stay high most of the time everything's great. Everything's great. And it's sativa, which of the two main strains is... the daytime weed, it's called.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: It's weed you can smoke and still go and do stuff (crosstalk).

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. It doesn't... will it affect cognition?

CLIENT: Yeah, no. Like, whoa, I'm totally stoned right now.

THERAPIST: [Is it] (ph) bodily?

CLIENT: It's mental, certainly, but it's clearer. You feel good, but things are still generally clear. And you can still get shit done.

THERAPIST: Yeah, huh.

CLIENT: So (chuckling)...

THERAPIST: Yeah, I was just hearing a Seth Rogen interview about how much weed he smokes while he's directing movies. He can...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: He functions (chuckling). He buys (inaudible at 0:51:47).

CLIENT: When I was doing awesome at my job (sp?), I was smoking weed every day...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: As soon as I got home.

THERAPIST: Yeah, no, the... I hear the concern you have is that it's about, you can't stop because you hit the depression wall. [0:52:05]

CLIENT: Right. If I stop there is a problem.

THERAPIST: There is a problem, right.

CLIENT: If I smoke too much, there is a problem.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So it's simply... I'm like, oh God. I'm having an anxiety attack. Okay, control your breathing, stop smoking for a few hours. (Crosstalk)

THERAPIST: That's interesting. It's also... but that's true of I guess anything that brings you relief that you lose or that ends. I mean, I know it's physiological. But there's also something about... I guess that happens with most things that bring you (crosstalk).

CLIENT: If you had no control over your emotions because they were a chemical swing and someone gave you a button to push that would make you feel happy, you would never stop pushing that button if you didn't have to.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yes.

CLIENT: It's a less eerie version of the rat in a cage. [0:52:56]

THERAPIST: It's in all of us, man.

CLIENT: Yes. It's like, here you go. But then especially if you've never been able to control your emotions and suddenly it's like, no, this will make you feel this...

THERAPIST: That's right. Especially if you're... yes.

CLIENT: (Crosstalk) Yes, especially if you're at the mercy of the whim of your chemistry.

THERAPIST: Yeah, how can it not be that much more tempting and seductive?

CLIENT: Yeah. It's not even seductive. It's just excellent.

THERAPIST: Yeah (laughing). It's excellent (ph). It's not seductive, it's (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: (Crosstalk) I'm not being seduced, but I'm actively joining in (crosstalk). Have you seen Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: It's a spoof of Walk the Line, fucking brilliant.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Some of John C. Reilly's best work. But essentially there's bits and pieces throughout the movie. It's like, there's this drug, you don't want this drug. The first one's marijuana. It's like, you guys smoking weed in here? Dewey, get back. You don't want this. And he's like, why? Is it addictive? It's not habit-forming. You don't want it. It's like, oh, okay, will it make me bad at sex? It makes sex even better.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: Like, oh, will it kill my appetite? It'll make food so much better. Oh, well, it must be expensive. It's the cheapest drug there is (laughing).

THERAPIST: (Laughing)

CLIENT: It's like, you don't want it! I don't know, I think I kind of want it. Yeah.

THERAPIST: All right, so I'll see you Monday, then.

CLIENT: Yeah, you should see that movie sometime. It's brilliant.

THERAPIST: Yeah, Dewey Cox. I think I remember, right.

CLIENT: Yeah, Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story. (Pause) Did I leave sunglasses in here somewhere? Weird. God. Huh. What did I...? (inaudible at 0:54:33) Where the hell did I put my (crosstalk)?

THERAPIST: Check the waiting room? (Pause)

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Oh good.

CLIENT: All right, see you later.

THERAPIST: See you.

END TRANSCRIPT