TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: [inaudible 00:37] teacher for weeks now and I've got to wear this today because it's cool.
THERAPIST: Yeah, right.
CLIENT: [inaudible 00:45] is super excited. She loves this weather. The heat is very difficult for her.
THERAPIST: Oh okay. Yeah. Why? What does it do? What is it like for her?
CLIENT: She gets exhausted, headaches, nauseous, you know. That's how she spends a lot of her summer. We have AC in the three bedrooms, you know.
So I moved the living room in the basement. The TV and all that kind of stuff back to the basement. Put that across from the couch. Moved it in to the basement for the summer.
THERAPIST: Oh you did?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And before she gets home, I turned on the AC in her office, you know, so it would be nice and cool when she gets home and she can walk directly in to it.
THERAPIST: Is that right?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: What's it like in the...on the main area on the first floor?
CLIENT: Stuffy.
THERAPIST: Is it, yeah?
CLIENT: It gets warm. It gets really warm there.
THERAPIST: Because you have a...it's a basement, first floor, second floor, right?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: That's a lot.
CLIENT: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but we can't...we don't put AC downstairs because it's a waste, you know. We need like...multiples. And it's stock pile room anyway, so. We find it easier [inaudible 02:10] the middle of the house, you know. Don't use the oven too much. Make a lot of salads and sandwiches.
THERAPIST: Summer has got the middle floor.
CLIENT: Summer has got the middle floor. Yeah. Yeah. So, I applied for three jobs now. I've heard back from none of them. I have a film interview, a film screening on Monday which seemed to go really well, you know.
THERAPIST: What? Two Mondays ago or last?
CLIENT: No, this last Monday. It seemed to go really really well. I spent a couple of days; no response to my e-mail, checking in. So.
[02:54]
THERAPIST: Well you followed up.
CLIENT: Yeah, I've been kind of holding out hope, but like I don't know why. You know. This is GSN. It's like I talked to you before; I have an in for the interview. You know. I just don't know.
THERAPIST: What are they looking for this time?
CLIENT: A QA Monitor. Another QA Monitor of the mobile stuff. I'm like yeah. Easy. This is stuff I can do. I don't know why.
THERAPIST: Yeah, right.
CLIENT: I don't know why.
THERAPIST: What did they screen you? What did they ask you?
CLIENT: The guy who I worked for called me and he was asking me very stupid questions and I gave him all the answers that I believe were correct. I just don't know; I don't know what they want. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I don't know if there is something I'm doing wrong. I don't know if it's just like, oh, that position; we're actually not going to hire that position. Or maybe we'll hire it later. Or maybe we don't need it right now. You know.
THERAPIST: Yeah, and I think you were telling me, which I think you had it right, what I heard from people that I think you brought it up. I know a few people that do HR and said if they have some reason, you know, they're not going to tell you what.
[04:22]
CLIENT: Yeah, they never talk to you.
THERAPIST: They worry about litigation.
CLIENT: Yeah, anything they give you that you might possibly latch on to and sue for, yeah. Nothing.
THERAPIST: So it becomes this very inhumane process where no one gives you any feedback, no one tells you.
CLIENT: Yeah. So I don't know.
THERAPIST: Yeah, but how has it been for you then? Like the...
CLIENT: Awful. It's been awful. It's like all of these questions are like self worth and nothing you've done about it. You can tell this is real because it's damaged.
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think it's getting too much sun.
CLIENT: Yeah. No. Is this [05:11] No? Yes. No, it's not. I don't think it's [inaudible 05:23]. It is not. Someone is not using the [inaudible 05:21].
THERAPIST: Yeah, it's supposed to be that you can kind of just, you know, give it direct sunlight but I'm going to...because there's one leaf you see there on the back that's really damaged.
CLIENT: Oh yeah.
THERAPIST: It's watered.
CLIENT: Um...I don't know.
THERAPIST: But I've got to say, man, in working with people who have gone through stretches of unemployment, it's so crushing. The only thing that solves it is when you find a job.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But that's good. You kind of went out and still tried it.
CLIENT: Well I mean, fuck, you know. What else am I going to do? You know.
THERAPIST: What were the other two?
CLIENT: Brown and the town [inaudible 06:17].
THERAPIST: What was the Brown gig?
CLIENT: [inaudible 06:22].
THERAPIST: Really?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: What are they doing?
CLIENT: They're doing online learning software.
THERAPIST: Oh really?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: One good thing, though, is that...does having a Bachelor's making a difference, do you think?
CLIENT: I don't know. They know I'm going in. You know. Yeah, like it's expected in 2013.
THERAPIST: Oh you do? Okay good.
CLIENT: To the computer, I'm like yes, I have it and I explain in the cover letter.
THERAPIST: Oh good. Yeah. Okay.
[06:59]
CLIENT: So.
THERAPIST: Are you doing that? What's the story with that? What were you going to take classes for Concord?
CLIENT: I'm waiting on an offer to tell me that I'm back in.
THERAPIST: Oh yeah.
CLIENT: [inaudible 07:15] like hey, what's up? I'm not even going to turn that around...last week or some time. This week. Half way through it. More than half way. It's Thursday now.
THERAPIST: What do they have to do? Just get you some transcript information?
CLIENT: Yeah, just be like, "Yep, you're in. Let us know which courses you want to do." You know. That's all it takes. Yeah.
THERAPIST: What's the...and what's the Telemath position then?
CLIENT: Oh, they need a QA Monitor because they have a Telemath software that I'm making. So they need someone. I'm like yeah, I can do that. I can do this three places. I can do this. It's like...
THERAPIST: Yeah right. No problem. What do you want me to do? You know.
[08:17]
CLIENT: Yeah, so I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question.
THERAPIST: But really gets the self-esteem and...
CLIENT: Yeah, it really does. I'm like smoking weed all the time and it's like, you know, I'm coming to the end. I know I'm coming to where I have to stop smoking weed, you know. Because I'll get a job soon and I don't want to be smoking weed and employed at the same time. That means I want to get anti-anxiety medicine before I get a job. Which means I have to call Jen, which I haven't done...I haven't talked to her yet.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Any concerns about her or anything like that?
CLIENT: No, no. It's just I haven't done it. I just never did it. I don't know why.
THERAPIST: Again, if you don't like her it's not going to bother me.
CLIENT: Sure.
THERAPIST: I'd like to know actually, one way or the other.
CLIENT: But I'd like to know what it would be like to be on anti-anxiety medicine.
THERAPIST: Oh yeah?
CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what it would be like. I imagine what [inaudible 09:48].
THERAPIST: Yeah. Have you...how much do you drink?
CLIENT: I don't drink much. Sometimes I be like, yeah; I know. Like my brother's coming over, I might have a glass [inaudible 10:00] you know. Sometimes we be [inaudible 10:03]. If it's sports season, I'll probably have a couple of beers at a game. Not really a drinker.
[10:12]
THERAPIST: I think it's...I think it's kind of like that without the buzz you're feeling. So your head's clear, but physiologically...
CLIENT: I might slow down or...
THERAPIST: You're not cognitively slowing down, but physiologically you're just kind of...you know how kind of like if you take a stiff drink, it's probably that way with...
CLIENT: Relaxing.
THERAPIST: It just kind of...it takes some of the tension away. And because the theory would be too, that it, because tension creates so much cognitive stuff and worry and stuff just by being so...that it eases the cognitive component of anxiety as well.
CLIENT: Yeah. The fear leads to stress; stress leads to pain. Fear is, because anticipation of pain become stress; stress causes pain. Pain leads to fear [inaudible 11:16] pain.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It goes and goes and goes and goes.
THERAPIST: Any ideas, though, about what...things that like concerns about it being habit forming or anything?
CLIENT: No, not really. I just haven't done it. I mean I look for [inaudible 11:46]. I do look for games as well. Games are on sale for $2.
THERAPIST: Yeah, money.
CLIENT: [inaudible 12:05] so great. Like I make so much money. I get to work with Adam and Nick, people I've worked with before. I don't know why they don't want me. Right. I have no idea. You know it's like, oh, would you be able to come in for an interview? I'm like yeah, of course. Don't ask that question if you're not going to have intentions in some way, you know. Don't waste the time. Especially if you're just asking to let me know [inaudible 12:52].
[Yawns.] I frequently talk to her after this.
THERAPIST: What's it...yeah. What's that like?
[13:06]
CLIENT: I don't know. Like a big wall comes up so often here and we always talk about money. Although my two brothers have been reaching out and more actively like hey, let's hang out. Oh okay. You know, sure. He called me the other night and he's like yeah; yeah, I just had a talk with my dad about a lot of stuff that happened when I was a kid. I'm like yeah. He's like yeah. Do you want to come over and hang out or do you want to talk on the phone? What? Oh, yeah, I can come over. About 15 minutes? Eighteen. Okay. See you in 18 minutes. He's very exact in the amount of time that it takes him to walk from one place to the other. You can call him. I'll be there in six minutes.
THERAPIST: Well what did he say?
CLIENT: Well, he comes over to the basement and talk. He said I never anticipated...that sort of thing never occurred to me, but he's like yeah, a couple of things I want to talk about. Dah, dah, dah, dah. I was like, momma said he sexually abused me, but I don't have any memory of that. You know. And he's like, and also, she said when she married you she found child porn in your closet. And he's like so what's up with that? And he's like, no you're right. He's like never done anything. I know the one time I had to wipe your butt and she freaked out about that, because he was like a baby. You know. And she got all "you can't do that."
THERAPIST: Is that right?
[15:11]
CLIENT: So she wrote down 20 incidents where she thought Kevin had been sexually abused. James was like; I think she thought if she wrote down 20 that one of them might be true. You know. And there were no criminal charges. She talked to the priest about it. You know. The priest was like; well you've been sexually abusing your son. I'm not going to report that. She was talking to a priest. He's part of the clergy or [inaudible 15:46] clergy. Don't understand the responsibility of being a clergy. Had no training. He was just someone they picked for three years. I'm absolutely [inaudible 15:55]. Absolutely.
My sister told her priest that she had been raped by her husband numerous times, and he's the Chief of Police. He's like I'm talking to you now as your priest, not as the Chief of Police. These aren't distinctions he's allowed to make. He's also recently fired for a sexual harassment scandal.
THERAPIST: Good. Church just turned its...
CLIENT: Yeah, absolutely. Those things are uncomfortable.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: Pray them away. If you pray enough about it; we don't take action, but pray about things until they go away. If they don't go away, we just keep on praying because we're not doing it right. Pray if it works.
THERAPIST: Did he grant your mother's divorce?
CLIENT: Oh, they granted her like the super divorce. Yeah, the super divorce. They give you a momentary...the break the seal that you got in the temple; the eternal bond, you know. My mother had to get written permission for divorce; not from the fucking father's office. The prophet of the church, [inaudible 17:12] a divorce. So.
THERAPIST: Yeah, and they do nothing to kind of say hey you need to get psychiatric help.
[17:23]
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: This is above and beyond what we can handle.
CLIENT: No that's not...nothing is above and beyond what we can handle. The power of prayer. Insanity. Fucking insanity. This is why anyone who admits to being a member can really marginalized. It's terrible. It's absolutely terrible. And the fucking idiots who are believing it. Like again, the infection problem. If you were infected as a child, then we can do some work. Let's see if we can...were you infected as an adult? Then you are a useless piece of shit. Absolutely useless. Nothing worse than a mid-life conversion to faith. Completely disgusting. Despicable.
THERAPIST: That's criminal.
CLIENT: Insulting, revolting; just absolutely awful.
THERAPIST: It's criminal.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. That's what the Church exists. All this stuff happens all the time.
THERAPIST: It's criminal.
CLIENT: Yeah, it is criminal. Yeah.
THERAPIST: But it literally was...
CLIENT: Yeah I know. I know. It's a crime. Yeah. Both instances I've talked about are crimes, you know.
THERAPIST: No, no. You know and if anybody worth any kind of peace and knew what they were doing, if that got reported to somebody in a child protective thing, which it should have been immediately, and anybody that's working that case, they would have, with any kind of training whatsoever, would have seen something is terribly terribly wrong.
[18:53]
CLIENT: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: But it would have come in and would have asked what's going on here.
CLIENT: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: And if they had any sort of...they would have done something immediately to get everybody safe.
CLIENT: Yeah. I still wonder. She was so good at passing. I think that might of was...that was a fear people would come in and she was like no, everything's fine. Everyone would believe her.
THERAPIST: And she would pull it off, you think?
CLIENT: People believed her about all sorts of things. That her back was broken. The nurse believed her that her back was broken; she was paralyzed. But they didn't do any tests whatsoever. You know. One day she's having a heart attack. She's like James; I'm having a heart attack. Oh fabulous, he says. You're not having a heart attack. He's like "Wendy, Wendy please. I'm having a heart attack. Call the ambulance." I'm like; you're not having a heart attack. I'm not calling the ambulance. Bridget was begging us please, please call the ambulance; she's having a heart attack. I'm like she's not having a heart attack. And like somehow a local member gets called. He comes over. I'm like someone finally calls the ambulance. The paramedics arrive. And they're like you're fine. Bridget was freaking out and the guy is like your mom is faking it. But people were concerned enough to call the paramedics.
[20:48]
He said you've been having a heart attack for half an hour. Yeah. I don't think that's what you're feeling. It's a great family guy that, [inaudible 21:02] and James. He goes like, recited some factoid; some ridiculous factoid and that it...and friends agree [inaudible 21:12], right in the book. It's like are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't nothing? It's that exact sort of thing. Are you sure you're having a heart attack? Are you sure it's not nothing?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Well she would do these kinds of things to have some sort of...a need for some sort of attention.
THERAPIST: Yeah, but she was panicking.
CLIENT: We had a psychologist at one time. She wanted a psychologist to talk to me. So the psychologist came and she went in my room and talked to her a while. [inaudible 21:50].
THERAPIST: Your mom?
CLIENT: So I made like a grumpy face that, so I meant like I really like...
THERAPIST: But if you noted...
CLIENT: Well to be noted in case you were like, oh well this motherfucker; what's like...
THERAPIST: So very attractive.
CLIENT: So...I don't know. Where was I?
THERAPIST: Psychologist.
[22:14]
CLIENT: So the psychologist was in there and she knew my mother. My mother met her and talked to her and asked her to come over and she saw nothing. Sent to countless psychologists who would meet my mother.
THERAPIST: Are you serious?
CLIENT: Yeah, they saw nothing. Yeah, my mother sent me to see a psychologist when I was 5, a play therapist, who was very impressed with my ability to organize. In fact, my need, my immediate need to organize things that were disorganized.
THERAPIST: Jesus. Well you know where that came from.
CLIENT: Yeah, and there was this other woman in Middletown who was a church member. And she met with me and Bridget several times. And my mom finally asked her what's wrong with my son. She said he can't handle it. And we stopped seeing her. There was another...
THERAPIST: Who can't? What was that?
CLIENT: My mom couldn't handle the diagnosis is what the psychologist told her. That same place sent us to a separate psychologist who showed us a lot of pictures, a lot of family settings. It was like talk about this. And I was like well what did she want to hear. And so I would craft these very normal things to say; very typical sort of things. And I mirrored off of better families than somewhat ours. [inaudible 23:41] you know. It was all very crafted. And this became a thing. I realized that a lot of people in your profession aren't very smart. This is a key problem. A lot of them aren't very good. They don't understand; they don't understand a lot of things and they are easily manipulated. And...
THERAPIST: You're saying they can be fooled pretty easily.
[24:08]
CLIENT: Well yeah. They're like oh, what's this? What are you feeling? I'm like, okay, what am I going to project. You know. And like what are they expecting here? What is the answer they're expecting from this question?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Fine. Here it is. And they don't expect 9 year olds to do that to them. You know. They don't...
THERAPIST: And they're maybe also willing to hear it because they want to see...
CLIENT: They don't want to deal with anything else. They all met my mother. So three psychologists there; four psychologists met my mother.
THERAPIST: Are you serious?
CLIENT: And then the psychologist she sent us to when...just before I left home, she was seeing a psychologist and sent me to see the same one. And she sent Bridget to a different psychologist, but was always in the sessions with her.
THERAPIST: Oh my God.
CLIENT: Two psychologists who had meetings with my mother on a regular basis. Nothing.
THERAPIST: Didn't do anything?
[24:58]
CLIENT: They didn't see anything.
THERAPIST: They didn't see anything.
CLIENT: There were allegations of sexual abuse, you know, but they did nothing.
THERAPIST: Are you serious?
CLIENT: I'm serious. They did nothing. This is a long line of psychologists who saw nothing and if they did, did nothing. Even things they should have done and are required by law to do...
THERAPIST: Unfortunately I can believe it.
CLIENT: Yeah, well I made him cry like a child...
THERAPIST: Which one?
CLIENT: The one that she and I both shared. Because he was weak. Because he was so weak and needed to be good at his job. Like I don't know why...I couldn't figure out the motivation. He just needed to be good at his job so badly. And he wasn't. And it was so easy to tell him how and why he wasn't good at his job. And then he just cried. Right there in front of me in the office. A grown man crying in front of a 15-year old boy who just took his life apart. You know. The school recommended him.
THERAPIST: This guys they were finding...
CLIENT: Oh yeah, awful. This other one they sent me to as a child a number of times, my mother, I saw him out there heard me, sat with me, talked to me, heard nothing that I said. Didn't read in to anything. Didn't pick apart this child is hiding something. Didn't do anything. I was, again, like 9 or so. And then finally ...the school sent me to him and he was like really useful. He was very smart and he would just...
[26:53]
THERAPIST: He would what?
CLIENT: Well we just talked about shit and he'd point stuff out. You know. He was much more like you. He'd be like doing his job. He actually knew what it was he was supposed to do. And so I loved him. I'd see him like once a month, you know. I was 17 I think.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Yeah, he was super great. So I saw him.
THERAPIST: These psychologist...they sounded scared? That they were scared.
CLIENT: Well, no...I hated them. I wasn't scared of the psychologists.
THERAPIST: No, I mean they were I imagine.
CLIENT: Oh they were.
THERAPIST: Like all the shit that had been going on.
CLIENT: Well maybe. Maybe it terrified them. You know, yeah. So all these things, he was good. And in college there was Julie and she was good. And they sent me to this other guy one time and this was not going to work out. From the moment we got in, it was one of those...
THERAPIST: What? Julie sent you to this other guy?
[28:04]
CLIENT: Well she was gone and I had this other guy. And he's one of those people who really values his average intelligence; his slightly above average intelligence. You know these people. They grow up. They're slightly above average. They get good grades because they can prepare to take easily. And they're like oh, I'm really smart. And you're like no. I mean you're in the machine. The machine is geared towards people who are engaged with it. And you're engaged because you want to keep your attention. So one of those people.
And so they cannot react professionally to being challenged. And so it was a real sort of like battle back and forth, you know, in that one session. [inaudible 28:57] intellect. Everything you've shown me is that you're not very smart. You know, and like I looked at all those books on the shelves and I'm like so like addiction is a big factor for you. And he was like, what do you mean? So you have all these books on addiction, you know. He was like, well you don't know. I'm like you have like half your book shelf is on addiction. Like you talk about like addiction is an issue for you. So what are we talking about? Why are you so interested in addiction? Like why do you want to study that? You know. He said this isn't about me. I said, well I think it is about you. If I'm going to trust you for an hour a week, then how do I know you're not broken? You know.
[29:37]
THERAPIST: How did he treat you?
CLIENT: Combatively. You know. So I remember the guy I saw before Julie...I think his name; I don't know. I don't remember his name. He's over down south on the way to Cole. And he's fucking fragile.
THERAPIST: Before Penelope or Julie.
CLIENT: Before Penelope. Penelope I saw before... He was just very fragile.
THERAPIST: Oh yeah, you told me about him.
CLIENT: Yeah. And he was also just very much collecting a paycheck. You know, it was really evident that he wasn't engaged, you know.
THERAPIST: He was between Brown and Cole?
CLIENT: Yeah. In an office above the building. And you know, I would complain about my job and he would complain about his except it was much worse. Yeah. I'd be like my fucking job. He's like well you have great health insurance. I don't get health insurance. My boss is an asshole. My boss is mean. So I don't get health insurance. I have to pay for all of it. I'm like why are we talking about your problems now? Like what's this about?
[30:49]
And I missed a session, he's like I need $175, and I'm like uh...no. And so then I'd skip another one. He was like now I'm worth $325, whatever it is.
THERAPIST: $350.
CLIENT: $350. You know so I write to him and I'm like, does this work? I mean do you ever tell anyone that if they give you [inaudible 31:14] money and then they come back? Like does that ever happen? And that was it. No response. No nothing.
THERAPIST: He didn't write you back?
CLIENT: No that was it. That was the end. That was the end.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Wow.
CLIENT: Yeah, so one more broken person.
THERAPIST: You've run in to some doosies.
CLIENT: This is the problem with; well, let's be honest with you. This is the problem with the soft sciences. It's easy to fake your way through. That's it. It's easy to fake your way through. I got like a fucking B+ in Intro to Psych without going. Right. Without going because it's really easy. Intro to Psych is incredibly easy. But you know these concepts are not difficult. The motivations that people have are not difficult. How to get at these motivations also not particularly difficult. Like I think; well if you're smart, it's not difficult.
CLIENT: But what I think you're getting at though is that...one thing I'm hearing about what you're saying is you can be...you can jump through all the hoops and do everything you're supposed to do and be a good student and everything. But when you sit in the room with somebody, do you really want to go there with somebody? Are you willing to really listen?
THERAPIST: Are you capable is the question?
CLIENT: Are you capable. Ginny was furious. She came back from a funeral furious and I've rarely seen her incredibly angry. It was some of the sexiest talks ever. I love to see her angry. It's just wonderful to know that she has that and it's good. It really; it indicates a strength that I otherwise would not be able to respect her as a person was she lacking. You know.
[33:17]
THERAPIST: That she can get pissed off?
CLIENT: Yeah. That she chooses not to hurt people. You know. This is an important distinction. So she came home furious. She was attending someone's funeral and she's like and the priest was bad at his job. And she's like you have a responsibility when you are clergy to be really good at your job. Actually people are counting on you in some of the most difficult times in our lives. They're counting on you. And she's like...and so this Catholic priest like Catholicism is one of the fucking worst religions just because it's fucking witch craft, and they're like witch craft. I've never been to a Catholic ceremony until I was like in my 20's and I was like this is Wicka. This is all fucking like Celtic pagan witch craft. This entire thing. And then some Roman discipline. Like what is...this is fucking ridiculous. You guys burnt people as witches at some point? Was that really based off of this? This is like...this is witch craft. You're burning the incense to clear the space and fucking like blessing water that...
THERAPIST: All the rituals.
CLIENT: Yeah, it's all fucking elemental magic. You know, burning the candle. You know, we had the breath of God. And we have all this like...yes; you're calling the corners of the elements. Fucking witch craft.
THERAPIST: Eating the body.
CLIENT: Eating the body. A fucking cannibal. It's a cannibalistic murder cult. You know. It's fucking cannibal murder cult Celtic superstition. Yeah. Yeah. The entire thing. It's sickening is what it is. And people say, I wish we had more nuance views on Christianity. There is not nuance to have. It's just fucking evil and we need to stop it. It's an infection that needs to be cured and it's disgusting. And there are people that...so many people that have this. So anyway.
So he was bad at his job and Bob; he didn't know the woman. He was fine. Often and dumb. He was like I didn't know her but...he start being playful off the top. Like kind of needle and yolks. One he didn't know who was now dead. He said a thing like when he met the daughter he was like there's no way this is the daughter; that woman looks younger than she does. I'm like, what? What? You look older than your dead mom breathing woman? You know, it just went on like this. And she's like so furious because he was so bad at his job. She goes well...
[36:26]
THERAPIST: You had a moment where you need the clergy [inaudible 36:28] right?
CLIENT: Yeah, she used to go to the Catholic churches. They won't let women in. And they won't let pedophiles in anymore. And so now they're really running out of people. They have to ship them in from South America and from other like depressed poverty stricken countries where they were so fucking uneducated enough to believe this shit.
THERAPIST: I wasn't real sure.
CLIENT: Yeah. Well yeah. Once...if you like to rape children like oh I do well then no; you can't be priest anymore. Now that question is on the questionnaire. You know. There is not a lot of other opportunity. Hey dude, do you not want to have sex the rest of your life and also not with children? Like ah man, I don't know. I was surely open when it was kids, but like with no one? Gee, God. Only a real serious infection would stop me; would stop me from not doing it. You know. Some really serious infection.
THERAPIST: Well I'm struck too, you know, by you guys, you know, throughout your life having these instances where you would, you know, have the opportunity for somebody in a place where they could actually do something, fail.
CLIENT: Oh, all the time.
THERAPIST: Really fail.
CLIENT: People are weak, okay. I meant there it is. That's the problem. People are weak. If I were to give Bipolar to any typical person right now, they would be dead within months. Dead. They couldn't deal with this. They don't have the intelligence. A lot of Bipolar people can't deal with this.
THERAPIST: I think that's right. That's definitely true.
CLIENT: Kills a bunch of people.
THERAPIST: That's true.
CLIENT: Not me.
[38:20]
THERAPIST: That's not in room with people that don't have the...
CLIENT: But a patient or a diagnosis would...
THERAPIST: That went through the trauma.
CLIENT: Yeah, sure. But they didn't learn anything important. They didn't learn anything important. They grew up soft. And they grew up believing in safety, and they grew up believing that people would be there to take care of them. And you were believing all these amazing things because that had been there experience and therefore it must be the truth. It must be universal and therefore it must apply; things outside of their experience.
And even I have to step back as well. That was outside of my experience and I had a false assumption about it. But now I stand correct.
And it would be nice to grow up in this fucking bubble bath of a life, you know.
[39:07]
THERAPIST: I don't get...listen; if people that have had lives like you, I would say it's the...it's more often than not that these are the people that are putting needles in their arms, you know, and not able to handle...
CLIENT: It's like heroine.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I see. Well, I smoke a lot of weed, but...
THERAPIST: No, but you tolerate way more...and your sister and your brother somehow I don't know what if it's genetic something or the other you guys got...
CLIENT: Probably geniuses. I know Bridget probably is. Kevin might be. His family is not very smart.
THERAPIST: There's intelligence and there's also some amount of resilience.
CLIENT: There's resilience to...
THERAPIST: It is a strength. It is amazing. Most people cannot, I would say, well who knows.
CLIENT: A lot of people would be dead. A lot of people wouldn't have made it.
THERAPIST: A lot of people would be dead or seriously like off the rails...
CLIENT: Yeah, injured in so many other ways. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Oh yeah.
CLIENT: I think heroin addiction is worse than death in many ways. It makes you inhuman while you're here. That's the way...
THERAPIST: That's awful.
CLIENT: Well, it makes you an animal, doesn't it? It just makes you an animal. An animal that just wants to fuck.
THERAPIST: It does in one effect?
CLIENT: Yeah, and that's it. It just reduces you.
THERAPIST: Hyper feel. It takes away all the thinking and feeling.
CLIENT: Yeah.
[40:40]
THERAPIST: Oh you're right. People have absolutely, you know, off'd themselves, finished themselves for far less going on than this.
CLIENT: Yeah, they just couldn't...they wouldn't be able to do it. But there you go. That's what I'm getting at. People are generally weak. Like they believe they are strong, but they've never been tested. And that's it. And when they are, when something comes down the line, oh, there's something I actually have to report to the police because this is awful, they're like oh, it's not really my place to step in. Or if I recognize that, I have to take an uncomfortable action. And what if I'm wrong? What if I'm wrong?
There's this test on a new show where they have a man kidnap a child in broad day light. He's got a young six year old girl. He's dragging her and she's screaming, "You're not my dad, you're not my dad. Let me go. Help me, he's not my dad." People just walked on by. One after the other. One after the other. Until this like fucking like Rasta looking dude, you know, a couple of black dudes, young men, in like their crazy stoning outfits passed down around their dick line and everything. They're walking, but hear this. They stop. They look. They drop their shit and they charge him. This other dude gets in his car to cut the guy off. Three people act immediately.
THERAPIST: Out of how many?
[42:31]
CLIENT: As soon as these two go, other people act. Now we'll be heroes as well. And so they charge and the guy drops her. He's like, it's for a show. There are cops. Look. And cops came out of places. The cameras come out.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: And they're like you're the only people who did this. Like all these like middle class people. And then it's a couple, like you guys, who look like stereotypical like whatevers hanging out, drug addicts, you know, a bunch of pot heads...
THERAPIST: But they came to rescue...
CLIENT: Yeah, they were like what the fuck else were we going to do?
THERAPIST: How about that? That's something.
CLIENT: Yeah, I know. No but he's like, of course we would. Why wouldn't you do this? What person in their right mind wouldn't save a child? Everybody.
THERAPIST: Yeah. There's that famous...there's that famous story that they talk about psychology a lot of...I think it's happening somewhere in Chicago. It's a famous crime where this woman was murdered; I believe it was right in kind of a busy neighborhood. And there were at least 20 witnesses. None of them even called the police and everybody saw it going on. No one did anything. I think that's what...it occurs to me that with these psychologists and these clergy, they saw stuff and they did not want to pry open anything or do anything. They did not want to act.
CLIENT: Yeah, because of a real weakness.
THERAPIST: Out of a real weakness.
[44:06]
CLIENT: Yeah, I'm going to be a psychologist so I can help people; so I can help people with their stress and their sadness and their mommy issues. You know, and like and that sort of thing. Having a hard time at work...is it hard for you? And that's this fantasy land. They saw it in a movie or TV you know.
THERAPIST: But when the rubber hits the road and you see something real...you turn that car around. You know.
CLIENT: Don't look in the rear view mirror; you don't like what you see. Yeah, so people are like why do you hate psychologists? I'm like wow.
THERAPIST: Why wouldn't you?
CLIENT: Why wouldn't you?
THERAPIST: Why wouldn't you like them?
CLIENT: It's like how many of them have I made cry? And the answer is almost all of them because there weren't difficult puzzles to solve. Like there were other issues so close to the surface. I told her if I actively stopped doing this...Penelope and I were like this is something I do; this is something I try not to do, specifically not to make Penelope cry. See if I can go through this without making Penelope cry. She probably cried quite a bit actually thinking about it.
THERAPIST: How so? What...?
[45:36]
CLIENT: Well some of these horrible things I tell people. You know, and she cared about me.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And she's a woman and therefore raised to be closer to her emotions. You know.
THERAPIST: It's probably a good thing that she did.
CLIENT: Hold back.
THERAPIST: Well she could hold back, but she could feel it.
CLIENT: Yeah, well I think she was...I'm afraid to engage, you know. Again, it's a real weakness and it's weakness that makes me sick. Just to do nothing.
THERAPIST: Yeah. And I think...
CLIENT: To have the responsibility and to do nothing.
THERAPIST: You know, I think it's an understandable kind of a real powerful rage you feel of people not really responding. Not being able to...
[46:31]
CLIENT: Well I think; well I mean I notice, one of the things I hate the most is someone who will not take action, you know. People who lack decision [inaudible 46:38]. When someone's like, when I'm like okay, let's use food. What do you want? Oh, anything, I don't care.
THERAPIST: You do care. You do care. Very much.
CLIENT: I can think of something to order that you won't like. And so I do that. Okay, how about we go get like Thai food. I hate Thai food. Okay, so you care. What do you want? Anything. Not Thai food. Vietnamese food? Is that what you get then? It's like you do care. You know what you want; you're hoping someone else will say it so you don't have to say pizza and subs. Let someone else say pizza and subs.
THERAPIST: Well I think too what really gets at you is that when people are not wanting...are kind of defensive with themselves, with having a response to you, or anything for that matter. In other words, like a psychologist that wants to look the other way or wants to tell you well your problems aren't so bad; listen to mine.
CLIENT: Right. What the fuck is that?
THERAPIST: I think that's about...when you react that way it's because I think you're reacting to their defensiveness. You're reacting to your inability to kind of go there.
CLIENT: Well yes. I mean I was presented them as they would get inside my head and figure out what was wrong with me. Alright. That's how the psychologists were presented to me. They would figure out what was wrong with me. And so this all of a sudden just became a fight. I'm like okay. So you're going to try and get inside my head. Let me see if I can get inside yours. And Carl, it's not that hard. Do you understand?
THERAPIST: Understandably. Why wouldn't you want to get in their head?
CLIENT: Why not? And again, you don't expect a 9 or a 10-year old, or a 12-year old or a 15-year old boy to do these things, you know. You don't expect him to look in and see that your greatest fear is [inaudible 48:39], you know. I mean you don't look at them and explain to them how they cannot understand what you have been through because their life has been too easy. They don't want to hear these things.
[48:52]
THERAPIST: It's funny; I almost hear it as like if you could have them go there with their deepest fear, maybe they can help you.
CLIENT: Maybe. But their deepest fear is ridiculous.
THERAPIST: Well yeah.
CLIENT: Their deepest fear is laughable.
THERAPIST: And you're sort of saying can't you just go there with, you know?
CLIENT: Yeah, like are we going to play or are we going to fuck around? You know. And...
THERAPIST: Not wanting to fail. Not wanting to...
CLIENT: Whatever their fucking fear is. Whatever typical tiny fear they've got and they went to be a therapist so they can fix themselves. Like whatever. Oh no. Did your parents buy you the wrong color car? That's hard. I had a girl with that once. Parents bought me a green SUV and I wanted a red one. Oh that sucks so bad. That sucks so bad. God, you should use your sexuality though, so. [inaudible 49:48].
Yeah I do. People; a lot of people are weak and that upsets them. They don't know what to do. They don't understand. So like Charles said...he was like I just like...I get it because like what I don't understand is what Bipolar is like. And so I was like, okay; here it is. You're fast. Faster than other people. And you're getting faster. So then you can see the future very clearly. The scenarios run full length before you and you can process them faster than anyone else can anyway. And so you can effectively see the future a few steps ahead of everyone. So now you're fast and you're getting faster to the point now where you're even way more smarter. And you're so much smarter than everyone and you can't help but feel like you're better than everybody. And actually, you are right now. You can see the future faster than they can. But then it gets to the point where you're too fast and everyone is moving slowly as if they're molasses as if to piss you off deliberately and it's stupid. It's so fucking stupid. But you know with clarity what's happening because you can see the future. And you know that you're going to run out immediately and you're going to drop. And then you know once you're there that you won't know where you are anymore. And then you lose it and then you're depressed and you can't see anything. You can't see forward at all. You can't see past your present suffering, and you don't know when it's going to end until you start to come out of it and then you can recognize, ah, I must be depressed. And he's like interesting.
[51:19]
So when I get depressed, I know I'm depressed. I know if I sleep enough it'll go away. And I was like, that's nice. Like that's typical. Like that spells depression. Like oh, you got sad. And you took a long nap and now you feel better. I'm like that sounds really nice. And he laughs because depression sucks. I'm like you don't even know man; you don't even understand.
THERAPIST: Well I think the other thing too that we've been talking about lately is you're not only dealing with that, but I think you're also contenting with what could be very powerful intense anxiety. Like the kind of anxiety you have when you're at the top of a roller coaster and you feel like you're about to...is this thing going to stay on the rails? I mean you know, and people, I think, don't understand that or see that very easily.
I was thinking about that car ride. You know, going on a car ride with the guys down. Like you know...
CLIENT: Sure.
[52:23]
THERAPIST: It's not like, oh yeah; we might get in an accident. It's like it's a whole other life.
CLIENT: When you go to your next psychologist's convention, whenever that is, start swinging. Start knocking people over and stand on their bodies, you know. And there are people like, I am better than most of you. Except that whoever you look up to in that community. But, you know, whoever those people are. But everyone else, you just mock. Just tell them they suck at their jobs because they know. They know. And they'll get defensive and angry and some of them will be just hurt, but they'll know. They'll know. Yeah.
Well Monday, huh?
THERAPIST: Monday it is. Yes.
CLIENT: I'll call Carla what's her butt and see what she has to say.
THERAPIST: Carla Francis. Yeah. I think you'll enjoy meeting with her at least.
CLIENT: Well, I imagine. I'll take your word for it.
THERAPIST: She knows. She can handle.
CLIENT: Yeah, that's good.
THERAPIST: She can.
CLIENT: People shouldn't be in this stress if they can't.
THERAPIST: She can handle it.
CLIENT: That's cool. Alright. See you the next time.
END TRANSCRIPT
