TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Good morning!

CLIENT: Good morning! What’s left of it... (inaudible) last night. (inaudible) know what I mean, (inaudible). Okay.

THERAPIST: So listen. Potential date (client affirms) to meet with Ginny (sp). How about...

CLIENT: Next week she’s out of town.

THERAPIST: What about Monday, the 17th?

CLIENT: Okay. Um... I’m ready (ph).

THERAPIST: It’s like 90% on my end that that would work, but just wanted to see if that would work for the two of you.

CLIENT: Monday the 17th. I will ask her about that shortly. Roughly this time?

THERAPIST: 10:30. (client affirms) Yeah. [00:01:01]

CLIENT: All right. I will ask her tonight. Tonight is date night, so I should remember (therapist affirms) to do these things. Oh, man! I woke up this morning to a very insistent Katy Perry. Wanted to know if I ever felt like a plastic bag drifting through the wind, wanting to start again. It’s one of two ringtones I have on my phone. So I can choose one of those two to wake me up, as opposed to one of the standard iPhone clacks and horns or whatever, so... (therapist affirms) I’m a Katy Perry fan, because who wouldn’t be? She has enormous breasts and incredible talent, so...

THERAPIST: Two for two!

CLIENT: Two for two! And she’s funny, too. She always has an attitude (ph), wicked funny. Did you watch the Super Bowl last night?

THERAPIST: I did.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: What was left of it. (client affirms) Basically, they should have left the floor, whatever. [00:02:02]

CLIENT: I went home after the third quarter and I was like, “There is no way. Like, there is just...” I’m pretty sure it’s a mathematical impossibility, unless all of a sudden, the Seahawks started playing like the Broncos, for some reason. (therapist affirms) But like, you know, when they got a touchdown in the third quarter, and Seahawks were like, clapping for them like, we just, you know...

THERAPIST: Is that right? Were they clapping for them?

CLIENT: Yeah, there were a couple of like, “Yeah, all right!” You know? (therapist chuckles) There was a Seahawk who like, did obvious pass interference and then shoved the guy. As he was walking away, he says, “Yeah, no worries! It’s cool! We take it.” (therapist affirms) Yeah, it’s like, “You can have your first down. I’m not really worried.”

THERAPIST: They knew.

CLIENT: Yeah, they had them beat.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah. It almost felt like, by the first snap of the game, they had them beat, with that safety...

CLIENT: Yeah, 12 seconds, fastest score in NFL history. And with the slowmo look on Peyton’s face of absolute horror (therapist chuckles), as he realizes what is happening. It’s like, “(inaudible). What’s going on?” (therapist affirms) You know, and who spikes it over your shoulder? That’s what I want to know. The guy who like, spike the ball, he’s like, it was like... not spike, um, the guy who, you know... [00:03:12]

THERAPIST: Oh, who hiked it?

CLIENT: Hiked it, yeah.

THERAPIST: The center?

CLIENT: Yeah, so he threw it over his shoulder, off to the right, you know? And it was like...

THERAPIST: Yeah, it was, that’s true. It was...

CLIENT: A total (inaudible).

THERAPIST: He was not only moving in, Peyton was not only moving in and not looking, but the spike would have, I mean, the hike would have been a way off.

CLIENT: Yeah, it was way off. He would have like, had to fumble that anyway, but...

THERAPIST: Yeah, that’s true, that’s true.

CLIENT: But it went straight over his shoulder, and uh... Yeah, I mean, after that beginning... And then after all the interceptions he threw, and that punt return and just like...

THERAPIST: Yeah, I can’t believe...

CLIENT: Places where the guy was in, you know, (inaudible) Duke (ph) shakes three tackles, spins and then evades that other guy. Poor 86, I think was it, trying to take him down. It was like, “I have three shots to take you down, and I failed all three of them.”

THERAPIST: Oh, the Harvin touchdown?

CLIENT: Yeah, I think so, yeah. It was like, spin [clicking sound], spin [clicking sound]... brilliant, fucking brilliant football. Bruno Mars, fucking talented individual.

THERAPIST: Did you like it? [00:04:07]

CLIENT: Yeah, I like him in general. Like, his lyrics suck like, whoever is writing his songs like, he needs another lyricist, you know? But (inaudible) he can dance, he can sing in several different styles, he can emulate several different singers very well, and he’s funny. He did SNL, I mean, he was hilarious.

THERAPIST: I heard that. I remember he was really good on that.

CLIENT: Yeah, so fucking good at that. You know, he’s talking about like... He’s just talking about, it’s like, “Yeah, I never had a chance to get in front of the camera before like this time. I mean, never been asked to like, one black shampoo commercial.” It was ridiculous! Because his hair is, you know, beautiful, incredible, you know. He’s like, “I’m a little nervous.” Kenan Thompson was like, “Hey, man! I see you’re a little nervous.” He’s like, “You know what, Kenan, you’re right. I shouldn’t be working. Not what I said.” (therapist chuckles) “You know (inaudible), I’m going to be amazing. Again, I didn’t say that. Amazing.” You know, he shoves him off and he breaks into a song and dance number, it was like... [00:05:08]

THERAPIST: Did he... he hosted it, too? Or was it just the musical...

CLIENT: Yeah, he hosted it. And he like, these five guys came on and started doing this, you know, background music and stuff, and dancing. He’s dancing through the whole thing. He’s like, “Look at you guys! What they’re doing now, it’s called a Breakdown. Breakdown. It’s a breakdown. Breakdown. They’re so good at it! It’s because they’re black! Here we go again!” (chuckles) Brilliant. They were like, “Yup!” FUCKing brilliant, fucking brilliant. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I heard people really liked that. I never saw that one.

CLIENT: Voice of an angel. They do this bit that was on Hulu Plus for a day or two, because they had to get clearance for the rights, but this skit is where he works for Sirius radio. You know, the satellite radio (therapist affirms) and everything? And Austin’s (ph) satellite goes out. People are like, changing stations and they’re like, “Oh, no! What are we going to do?” So like, “Let’s go get the intern.” The intern starts like, singing songs, or a song comes up...

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: He starts singing it.

THERAPIST: He had to actually do it, he was doing it.

CLIENT: Yeah, and that (inaudible) so good, it’s so good. [00:06:06]

THERAPIST: That’s cool.

CLIENT: And they have him doing Kevin Jackson, starts with “Billie Jean,” kind of, someone skips “Billie Jean.” And everyone’s like, “Who skipped ‘Billie Jean’? Who skipped ‘Billie Jean’?”

THERAPIST: What do you mean, they skipped it?

CLIENT: Oh, like whoever is play , pushing the buttons or whatever on the radio.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. He wanted to turn...

CLIENT: Yeah, he was changing the songs, somehow it keeps switching. They have to rush him into... one of Satchmo’s songs, (inaudible) screen (ph), but like as he was (inaudible) to laugh midway through it, and so it doesn’t quite work. Like, Jason Sudeikis is totally rolling, he was like, “Not your best, not your best. We’ll get it on the next one.” (chuckles) It totally ruled it, but... it was brilliant. I’ve been rehearsing this interview tomorrow, all week, and...

THERAPIST: Yeah, what do you have?

CLIENT: (pause) I think good answers. Um... you know, what I’m mostly afraid of is, not afraid... The biggest concern is what happened to your last two jobs. (therapist affirms) I think my answer for that... I’ve never been, I’ve been fired once. I’ve been fired once and laid off once, [] when I was younger. (sighs) CEO is 29, by the way. [00:07:19]

THERAPIST: Of Plebian?

CLIENT: Yeah. He’s 29, so... There is another dude there who’s in his 30’s; he’s the old man of the group. So, I think I get to be the old man if I get hired. I figured, fine with me. People start calling me Mr. Reeves again, the reflex (ph) would be fun, so... Uh (sighs), sir. Yes, sir. I’ve gotten a lot of “Sir.” He’s got a lot on his plate. This dude who used to work for me still calls me “Mr. Reeves.” I’m like, “You don’t work for me. You can call me...” “Oh, I prefer Mr. Reeves.” So they already have a good working match (ph), so...

THERAPIST: Oh, at the...

CLIENT: Plebian. So, I’m going to do someone else there (ph).

THERAPIST: Yeah, so what about the two, how are you going...? [00:08:05]

CLIENT: So, well, I think the way I have to phrase it is like, “Listen, I’ve left every place I’ve left after long consideration and (inaudible), especially these last two places had high amounts of turnover. I carefully considered my reasons for living (corrects), I mean, for leaving...

THERAPIST: For living! (chuckles) That, too!

CLIENT: That’s a Freudian slip, right there! (chuckles)

THERAPIST: They’ll probably get it at a Plebian accounting place.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. You know, for leaving. Truly, the details I feel comfortable going into. I made an effort (therapist affirms) to fix the issues, the issues were not resolved, and so after careful consideration, I left, you know. (therapist affirms) If you want to know more about that, you should hire me and take me out for some drinks.

THERAPIST: I mean, I have to say, just, from my standpoint, I sometimes hear you’d be almost apologetic about it, when you shouldn’t. I mean, you went there, and you did what you wanted to do. I think you also felt like you didn’t see a place for you after a certain amount of work had been done.

CLIENT: Yeah, no, that’s true. I was like... well, this is boring now. [00:09:11]

THERAPIST: You should definitely mention that they wanted you to stay and do this other role that (client affirms) you weren’t (inaudible/blocked).

CLIENT: No, that’s true. I was offered a project management job, yeah. He offered me a better job. I didn’t want it (therapist affirms) there. I didn’t want to work in that environment anymore. What was that environment like? Negative. So... you know, it didn’t fit. I was sold a bill of goods that there would be no crunch, that they didn’t believe in crunch, they had never crunched. They’ve been crunching ever since I left. They lost one employee a month for every month that I was there. Those were the facts, so, do whatever you want to do with those.

THERAPIST: (pause) Then you took, and then you’ve taken the time off to finish your degree.

CLIENT: Yeah! There you go!

THERAPIST: It’s not like there is a...

CLIENT: Yup! There you go! I’ve taken, yeah that’s good; I like that!

THERAPIST: No, that’s the truth, though. [00:10:07]

CLIENT: I’ve taken the time to finish my degree. It is the truth and how convenient that is that that’s the truth, you know? (therapist affirms)

(pause) I was telling Ginny this morning, I woke up and I grabbed my laptop, because it was, it was like, Oh God, groggy, flipped it open. Ginny was like, “Hey, how you doing?” Because she’s been at work for an hour and a half, you know; she goes, “Hey, what’s up?” “Groggy. If I get a job, I’ll have to adjust my sleep schedule!” She was like, “You’re the master of adjusting sleep schedules!” I mean, that’s fairly true.

So (sighs)... good experiment yesterday. Went to Eugene’s (ph) for the Super Bowl... because, you know, that’s always a good time. It was amazing. Having no skin in the game, lets you just switch sides. I was going as a Broncos fan. I was like, “Yeah, (inaudible) Peyton Manning, Wes (inaudible).” Now (inaudible) Seahawks! (chuckles) Go Seahawks!” You know, people are like, “What happened?” I’m like, “Oh, whatever, man!” Broncos were (ph) Providence fans over, and it was consistently more and more over as time went on. And truth, my change of allegiance happened slowly over the course of the first quarter, but after the first quarter, I was like, “Yeah, this game’s over.” Peyton Manning on the phone with his mom... [00:11:27]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I saw that, yeah.

CLIENT: Eli Manning, the littlest giant, standing up there in the booth. (therapist affirms) Manning faced (ph) all around.

THERAPIST: Manning faced...

CLIENT: So... (pause) Still... Watching the failures of others somehow makes us feel better, vicariously. Sports, sports ball, the drunker I get, it’s like, “These guys aren’t sportsing very hard. They should sports harder.” Seahawks, man! They’re sportsing so good right now; I’ve never seen, I’ve never seen anything sports this good.

THERAPIST: Sports is a verb?

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s how we use it, yeah. Sports ball, sports puck. We don’t watch sports bounce or sports stick, but... [00:12:16]

THERAPIST: Sports... that’s baseball, also?

CLIENT: Yeah, we don’t we don’t bother with baseball. Sports bounce, we don’t, we only watch the last two seconds of any sports bounce game. That’s the best part, right there, you know? What’s going on? Probably 20 seconds. Like, who’s going to win by a point or two? You know. I saw some amazing sports bounce back when I was a kid. Larry Byrd and little white Mormon from...

THERAPIST: Danny Ainge (ph)?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah exactly. Used to do that thing where like, seconds left on the clock, ball about to go out of bounds, dude runs out, leaps, catches the ball in mid-air, hasn’t landed yet, so the ball is still fine, shoves, just chest-pushed it back to Larry Byrd, he grabs it, three-pointer, fucking brilliant, wins the game. I was like, “That’s sports ball, right there. That’s sports ball.” But... I’ve never seen anything better than that, so... (therapist affirms) Whatever.

THERAPIST: Just watching a game on TV one day? [00:13:17]

CLIENT: Yeah, it was when I was a kid, with my stepfather. I was probably, I think I was 14, 15. (therapist affirms) It was right before, shortly before I left forever. Yeah. So... Yeah, I was 15 when I left, because we moved, and I remember writing in my journal one of the many littered throughout my past. “This is the street we just moved to. It’s the sixteenth place I’ve lived, and I will turn 16 here.” I did not turn 16 there, I turned 16, I think, I don’t know, I turned... 16 the summer after. (inaudible), so yeah.

THERAPIST: What was []?

CLIENT: [] was a, the family, they owned a house just down the street from the Academy of (inaudible) (therapist affirms) and they basically were like, were never there and it’s a big house, so if you want to have some teachers living there, you know, and some students living there, then they can do that. So that’s where they brought me in. (therapist affirms) It was over a few months, I lived there for an entire year with Petetian. No respect for him, but he was like 24, right? In retrospect, I’m like, “Okay like, you have no clue what was going on when you’re 24.” [00:14:51]

THERAPIST: Not far, not very far for 16.

CLIENT: Not very far, no. You’ve been through college, basically you know how to do lunch. I used to cry about that. (pause) Petetian was 34 when he became my surrogate father, essentially, you know. I wrote him about that, when Kevin was living in my basement. I was like, “You know, I have this 20-some-odd-year-old kid living in my basement; made me think of you, when I was, you know, staying with you all the time. I realized like, you must have been around my age, you know, when you took me in.” He was like, “Yeah, actually, I was. I think I was 34 and, you know...” I was like, “This really gives me a lot more context.” Same thing with when my father died, people told me I’d (inaudible) him better as I got older. Like I feel that I understand better now where you were, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah, sure.

CLIENT: You know, and the way that I think I thought like, “Why you couldn’t have just taken me in? You know? You’re 34, you couldn’t tell me, adopt a, you know, 17-year-old son?” [00:15:53]

THERAPIST: What was his situation?

CLIENT: He had a house, he was a teacher. He eventually got a house with his second wife, Toni (sp). He had a daughter from his previous marriage, which ended like, amicably, as long distance can. Go into the lawyer, he was like, “We want to be divorced, I want the truck and my guitar, and visitation rights to my daughter. He was like...” She got everything else. They were like, “All right,” drew it up, and boom! They were divorced. (therapist affirms) It was really simple.

THERAPIST: (pause) And then how long did you stay with him for?

CLIENT: Um, a year and then many times we got (ph) together with mom home, because it was a two-hour commute on my way back from school. So many times, I would just stay and (inaudible), you know (therapist affirms), you know, my homework and whatever. He’d have a couple of beers, we’d play some chess, you know.

THERAPIST: How did you guys get along? [00:16:54]

CLIENT: Really well, you know, really well. I was the smartest kid in school, and he was the smartest guy in the school and so... you know...

THERAPIST: And then he moved out, and then there was maybe the chance that you were...

CLIENT: And, yeah. So then I moved in with my uncle, which was great, but a little difficult for both of us. He suffers from... chronic depression, although he drinks that away. Yeah, he’s become a fully embraced alcoholic, being foolish (ph), you know. He’s like, “I drink too much, and too often, and all the time, and vodka,” you know. I’m like, “Well, all right. I think you’re just kind of hoping you’re going to be dead soon.” He keeps saying, “I’ll be dead soon! This is my final trip.” He’s taken several “final” trips up here. And I love...

THERAPIST: Is he down in Arkansas? [00:17:53]

CLIENT: Yeah. I love him, and... I mean, he’s great and all. One of these days, he’ll be right; I think he’ll die. My cousin lives in (inaudible) (he’s the eldest of the two offshoots of the Reeves’ tree), are(sic) in control of the will. I get his own ring (which he has worn most of his life), which means I’m his favorite, and there is something (in the top right drawer of a rolling desk in his house) which belongs to me.

THERAPIST: But he’s never told you what it is, what’s in it.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don’t know what it is, but it belongs to me. I’m also going to get his journals, (inaudible) for his journals.

THERAPIST: Who, besides your dad’s...?

CLIENT: Well... I guess I’m thinking about it practically, and that I have my dad’s, my uncle has his own and his mother’s, so I’m going to take those. (therapist affirms) Yeah. [00:18:55]

And his tombstone, where his ashes should be interred, next to his brother, and the plot he’s already paid for, and the tombstone is already paid for, and the engraving just simply to say “He ever sought God...” I think mine will say, “No more miracles.”

THERAPIST: “No more miracles...”

CLIENT: It’s a reference to Sherlock that I like so much. Have you seen the BBC version of it?

THERAPIST: I saw the first season.

CLIENT: Okay, it’s in the first season, okay. Are you familiar with canon (ph), however?

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, so you know with all like, how like, Moriarty and Sherlock had a...

THERAPIST: They were rivals with kind of...

CLIENT: Right. They fight each other to the death, there is canon, right?

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: You know. And then everyone got so pissed with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle that he had to bring Sherlock back.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you mentioned that, yes.

CLIENT: So, there are a bit where Watson is at Sherlock’s grave, you know, and he’s having a very hard time with this. He’s like, “So one more thing, there is one more thing, Sherlock. One more miracle, just for me. Don’t be dead.” You know. And... (pause) Yeah. I like that. I like the idea of no more miracles. [00:20:05]

THERAPIST: No more miracles. Hmm.

CLIENT: People really like when Sherlock shoots himself in the head with a shotgun (inaudible) like, it’s...

THERAPIST: They do?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. They get a lot of kudos and or (inaudible) people reading it, so... It’s short, but it helps. People are like, “Oh, so this is a couple (inaudible/blocked).

THERAPIST: What’s it been like to share that? What, yeah, to have people read and respond that way?

CLIENT: Oh, I don’t know. I like it. I’m like, “Good. It’s painful, it should hurt.” People like what hurts them, you know, in literature and media. Feeling pain vicariously, you know, is a good way to experience pain, you know. [00:20:45]

THERAPIST: Yeah. And maybe in a more, it’s like a kind of more... I was thinking about, you know, you talking, us talking about, you know, the kind of struggles it’s been to kind of share, or even if you want to share, about times that you’re suicidal. (client affirms) And, it seems like you get the job done more... Like, in some way, you feel like it can be, it’s more palatable or something to people if it’s read in a Sherlock story, you know.

CLIENT: I suppose, yeah, I mean...

THERAPIST: It’s got (inaudible/blocked). [00:21:21]

CLIENT: It’s usually easier for them to do so, to deal with that. Stories make everything safe. (therapist affirms) So... But the experiment I was speaking of yesterday... I went to (inaudible) football, I’m only on 300 mg of Lithium now, I cut myself down. The doctors of mine had (ph) sent me the results. So they called me in to figure out what (inaudible) his entire name and fax number was (despite the fact that they have it in front them, and despite the fact that they can’t find me in the system, even though I was in the system just last week and that is my primary care provider where I’ve been going for at least over a year, you know). So I’ll be going there again in March, I’m already scheduled for my annual (ph) physical, so...

(pause) Anyway, the experiment was... I had one Manhattan, instead of three. Smoked weed with Charles a couple of times. When he was leaving, I didn’t ask to smoke again before he left. I was like, “This is fine. This is going (ph). If this is a ‘sometimes’ thing, then it’s a ‘sometimes’ thing, you know.” If I don’t have it, I don’t need it. If it’s available at a party, that’s fine. (inaudible) with a party and the next day, well, now I have an issue. Now I’m creating a pattern, especially considering that... I have this interview coming up tomorrow. Amelia, your name is Amelia. So... (stretching and sighing) he... So that was good. I liked that, that I could experience this combination of drugs and not feel that I needed to experience more of this combination of drugs (therapist affirms), which I liked. [00:23:25]

THERAPIST: So I missed it. What, the mix was 300 mg of...

CLIENT: 300 mg of Lithium, 1 total mg of Klonopin (therapist affirms), (at that point in the day, I had taken it, because it was when I was at three, so I took a couple right before I went over), and a couple of rounds of smoking weed, you know. Not hard, not hard. People expect you to be stupid when you smoke weed.

We were playing with very new and very complicated game called Innovation, which is complicated and new and quite good. Charles and I went out to smoke weed beforehand. I never played it before. So I came into Eugene’s teaching how the game goes. People expect your short-term memory to go. And it does, because problems of encoding, right? But people learn the trick of encoding, right? It’s that you... [00:24:23]

I still remember that fucking sailboat. And (inaudible) almost told me, she’s like, “They say if you stare at something for five seconds and intentionally fix it as a memory, you keep it, you know, forever.” I heard this when we were on the beach, so I go over to the window and looked at this sailboat, just stared at the sailboat, fixing it in my memory. And it’s still there.

THERAPIST: What do you mean, “fixing it”? You mean like...

CLIENT: You create a permanent...

THERAPIST: Oh, I see now.

CLIENT: ...(inaudible/blocked) and lock onto that memory. (therapist affirms) It’s still, it’s still there, I can see that sailboat. That’s what the key is, knowing that you have about 15 minutes before your short-term memory dumps, you know. If you don’t encode within 15 minutes, it’s gone. So... (pause) So, but that’s what you do, and that’s the trick. So I won the game! It was great. People think, “Oh, So-and-so is stoned, So-and-so will be slow and stupid.” It’s like, “No, I’m Willow fucking Reeves. I’m just gifted now.” (pause) And I know the trick. Yeah. [00:25:24]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. Whereas, so you kind of have to, dealing with the potential for memory.

CLIENT: I know how the drug works, so I have to fix the side effects (therapist affirms). People are like, “Well, look. You’re going to smoke weed, aren’t you worried about this?” I’m like, “No, I’m a fucking pro at this. Like, I know how to smoke weed and how to be high, you know, so...” Nobody gets stoned that beats their kids, unless they were determined to do so beforehand anyway.

THERAPIST: It does not lead to impulsivity.

CLIENT: No, it does not. It does not; in fact, it leads to quite the opposite of that, you know? But it was nice and... So Colbie was there, without her boyfriend, which I’m glad of. I dislike her boyfriend greatly. Yet another man that talks down to her, you know. I’ve been meaning to have this conversation with her, I’m like, “Colbie, may I ask you a question that is potentially offensive, infuriating, and might make you very mad at me, and is also quite personal, but to, of which I’m very curious about the answer?” If she says yes, which she will, because they always do, it’s like, it’s very simple: “Why do you date men that talk down to you? It’s a curious thing.” Obvious first response is, “What? I don’t date men who talk down to me.” It’s like, “Okay, we can walk through the evidence, if you’d like, you know.” Because I’ve seen it happen numerous times. Charles and Victor (ph), whom you’ve both dated, still can’t help but take digs at you, you know. [00:27:00]

So what do I do for Colbie? I sit between Colbie and everybody else. I become her surrogate boyfriend of the evening, in that I’m the one who supports her, I’m the one who laughs at her jokes, which are funny, you know. I’m the one who’s like, “No, actually, that wasn’t the best connection,” you know. I’m honest with her, but at the same time, I’m a buffer. (pause) Because we get along, you know. We sat there, we shared a blanket, you know. We talked throughout the game, whatever. And it’s nice. It’s nice to be a surrogate boyfriend to someone who is more than ten years younger than I am, you know. She’s... she’s 26 now? (therapist affirms) Yeah. So 36.5, so that’s 18.5 really is what it is. 18.5 plus 9, 27.5, so 27.5 is the youngest I can date without being creepy. So, apparently that’s the rule someone made up, half your age, plus nine. [00:28:05]

THERAPIST: (pause) I thought it was half your age plus seven.

CLIENT: All right, hey, that’s even better!

THERAPIST: Now you’re in!

CLIENT: That’s even better! Leif (sp) is dating someone who’s just graduating college and Leif is... (inaudible) I think. And we made fun of him for a while. Well, no; not I, actually. Other people were like, “Oh! You’re robbing the cradle, robbing, you know, she’s 21, she’s barely drinking, blah, blah, blah.” So I was like, “Leif, I fully support your decision to date this woman.” I’d never even met her. And after I met her, I was like, “Leif, this woman is fantastic, you know. She’s much older than 21, intellectually and emotionally, you know.” So like, no, she’s fantastic. If anything, she will leave him, you know, rather than him leaving her, you know. That’s... That’s the sad truth of it, you know, if the relationship is ended, it would be by her.

THERAPIST: Well, what about, yeah, what about being that surrogate boyfriend to Colbie? [00:29:10]

CLIENT: She needs it! (therapist responds) People, she dates men who talk down to her, because of feelings of self-worth. I can point out to her the parts of her that are special. That’s... That’s what I’ve... That’s the art of seduction, right? So I seduce her to the point, to a particular point, you know? I’m not going beyond that point. (therapist affirms) I’m hoping she feels comfortable and comforted and cared about, you know. These are important things to do, especially in an environment where two of the four members in the environment are going to take digs at her, because they’re upset that she broke up with them. (therapist affirms) (pause) I may have to talk to a few of those guys at some point.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you really like her.

CLIENT: I do. I do. And when she started dating Charles (she dated him for a year), I was very happy. I told her this. I was like, “Because now you’re part of this. Now I get to keep you.” [00:30:12]

THERAPIST: Yeah, she’d be part of the gang.

CLIENT: Yeah. Now you’re part of this. So it was then like, with Francesca Milner, and James (ph), I’ve told her, after not (inaudible), I was like, “Francesca...” I should have said when, but I said if. I was being polite. I was like, “If you were to break up with James, I want you to know that I’m going to keep you,” you know. And then she’s like, “I actually (ph) heard that a few times.” I’m like, “Great. That’s fantastic.” Because she will break up with James, because James is an asshole. He’s one of those people who is also very smart, but unfortunately, thinks that being very smart means he’s a genius, and he’s not a genius, so...

He’s also incredibly emotionally insensitive and (sighs) unaware, so it’s just the same thing. But... He, there is this constant drama, and Francesca Milner likes a bit of drama in her relationships, as far as I can tell. Because James is always receiving these mysterious texts, and Francesca is always like, “Who’s texting you?” He’s like, “No one.” She’s like, “Someone is texting you. I can see that you just got a text. Who is texting you?” He’s like, “Oh, whatever. It doesn’t matter.” And she’s like, “Well, let me see your phone, if it’s nobody.” He’s like, “No. It’s my phone.” [00:31:37]

So... (therapist affirms) she stormed off, getting angry. He’s like, he’s like, “Whatever.” When I first met her, it was a New Year’s Eve party. Pete and I were out on the back porch, because he smoking a cigarette and when he does, it’s often when I go and hang out and we talk. He smokes a cigarette, so we’re on the back porch in coats, because it’s January. She storms out there in socks and like, in like a sweatshirt. She doesn’t bother to get her coat or shoes. She’s just crying. She comes out there and she’s crying. We’re both like, “Whoa!” And she’s like, “I’m fine! I’m fine, ignore me. I’m okay.” And we’re like, “Okay. No problem.” Like, we will let you have your emotions in peace. (therapist affirms) You know? I respect that.

So, you know, we never thought... But she’s still out there and she’s still cold. When we go in, you know, it’s like, “Where’s Francesca?” “Francesca’s outside without her shoes on.” So we both go outside to try to get her back in. It takes some time, but we actually do get her back in, because she’s shivering like fuck, you know. For the same reason, James wouldn’t let her see the texts, you know, and this often is the problem. James is so emotionally crippled that he... this is someone who made me love Ellen (sp), Leif’s girlfriend, even more. [00:32:59]

Everyone is over at Eugene’s Place again, for some Sunday thing that they’re having. A number of people are going down to DC to visit Pete and do some stuff down in that area. Leif and Ellen were in the kitchen with me, and we’re just talking about some stuff. James runs in, he’s like, “Leif, I need a cover.” Leif is like, “What do you mean?” He’s like, “Francesca wants to go do this thing when we’re down there, I don’t want to do anything. Like, so like, I need like, a way out.” Leif is like, “Oh, you have plans with us. You have plans with us.” He’s like, “Right. I have plans with you guys. Okay, cool.” And Ellen, you know, just has this look on her face of disgust like, “What the hell?” So she goes out...

THERAPIST: Why did Leif cover, or she’s not... [00:33:45]

CLIENT: Yeah, she is more mad at James for being... (therapist affirms) So Ellen, after this conversation was over, she walks out to Francesca. She’s like, “Francesca, you should know that James doesn’t want to go do this thing that you want to do. Instead of telling you that, he’s going to ask Leif to cover for him and lie about having plans. So I just want you to know that.” And Francesca is like, “James!” Drama starts up, but I’m like, “That was the correct move. That was the correct move, Ellen.” The faster and more obvious we can make it to her that James is an asshole, the quicker we excise James from the group. We lose James, we keep Francesca... There we go.

THERAPIST: Get rid of the insensitive (inaudible) person.

CLIENT: Yeah. He does not contribute. That is my rule. (therapist affirms) I mean, that’s my rule, right? Like, when it comes down to the vote, right? And the vote is really, I mean, Eugene and I are the vote, you know? It’s like, because he’s the person you know, who has the place, he invites people over. I’m the person who will tell the truth about people, you know. He’s often like, “Yeah, that makes good sense.” He wants to be more forgiving sometimes, but if I’m like, “Here is the issue,” he’s like, “That is right. That’s an issue.” Then we just excise that person. (therapist affirms) Eugene and I are the two smartest guys in the room, so we make the choices, you know. (pause) Yeah. I just found out his wife was a math major and I’m jealous, but... [00:35:13]

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah?

CLIENT: Because I want a math degree. In a second. Okay, so in any case, but that is what, you know, I would like to do, is excise him. You know, he’s part of the Connecticut crew, so the Connecticut crew has to kind of go along with it.

THERAPIST: He was part of that crew.

CLIENT: Yeah, he’s part of the... there is a bunch of people... Like, Darcy brings with her a group of people that she grew up with, right? Like, Leif is among that number and Milner comes from that group. []. We’ve excised a number of people from the, from the group over the years, just for their inability to grow up.

Some of them grew up when they let their friend drown. They didn’t know until after they couldn’t find them. They were all just really drunk and at a reservoir jumping off rocks, you know. Some were being, admitting irresponsible kids like, they always were in their late 20’s. One of them drowned.

THERAPIST: One of them died? [00:36:22]

CLIENT: Yeah!

THERAPIST: But they didn’t know, they weren’t aware of...

CLIENT: They didn’t know. They were all just too drunk and partying to realize that one of them had just sort of... He jumped, he jumped from a rock and didn’t come back up. (therapist affirms) So that sobered a few of them, you know, I mean... but mentally not, you know. (sighs)

(pause) I almost excised Xavier. I made it very clear to people. I was like, “I have a real problem with Xavier.” Xavier gets drunk to the point where he hurts himself and others, right? Like, at Eugene’s wedding, you know, afterwards, I’m like, “Okay. Xavier has locked himself in the bathroom with a full bottle of champagne, which he is drinking. [] Question one: Why are you trying to save him? All right? Two: Why is he so broken?” And, they explained, “He was straight-edged, totally don’t do anything, you know, still straight-edged for a long time. Then his girlfriend (inaudible) cheated on him and it broke him. He was like, “Fine, I’m going to do all the drugs and drink all the drinks.” So for years, he’s totally irresponsible, just whatever. [00:37:37]

So they’re trying to save him. I’m like, “Don’t bother. Like, he doesn’t want to be saved, right? So why are you putting in the effort to save a broken person?” Well, the next morning, we got to breakfast, he looks up at me, he’s like, “I heard I was at my most charming last night.” I was like, “Yeah.” And now he drinks with control. He drinks every day. He’s an alcoholic and drinks every day, but he doesn’t get stupid, he doesn’t lose control, you know. So we kept Xavier, which is good, because Xavier is a good, kind, sweet, loving man, who can contact Anonymous. So if you ever need something hacked, talk to Xavier. Xavier actually probably is an Anonymous, because he knows the rules of how they work, but...

(pause) Eighty per cent, they need 80% of the group to agree before they do anything. Rule number one is you do not fuck with the government, whatever it is. They’re like, if you fuck with the government, you will be destroyed. Otherwise, they’ll leave us alone. And they could do things like, soft crimes when the police are refusing to do so. Did you hear that story? [00:38:54]

THERAPIST: I heard about the... what was it, the Ohio, Steubenville one?

CLIENT: Yeah, the kids who raped that girl (inaudible). The police are like, “We have no idea how to catch (inaudible).” Two hours, Anonymous cracks the case. Like...

THERAPIST: They’re really behind a lot of that. (client affirms) They get the Twitter stuff out or something...

CLIENT: Yeah, they’re like...

THERAPIST: With the hacking in their accounts and, you know...

CLIENT: Yeah, and yeah, Xavier was like, “It’s so easy.” He was like, “It’s just an XIF file.” I’m like, “I have no idea what an XIF file is, but you do,” you know. So... (pause) Math. So... the, (sighs) That trick works, by the way. So... math. I got an 89 on the Stats test. I, right after, on Thursday, I went directly to there...

THERAPIST: You took a test that day? [00:39:42]

CLIENT: Yeah. I hadn’t done Chapter Two yet, so I just read Chapter Two, I did the Practice Section of Chapter Two. I was like, “This seems to make sense.” I went and took the test. (therapist affirms) I got an 89, which was infuriating to me.

THERAPIST: It is.

CLIENT: Yeah! Because, I mean, I wanted a 90 at least. It was like, I get a fucking B+ (therapist affirms), you know? Ginny’s like, “B+ is good!” I’m like, “That’s unsatisfactory!” The (inaudible) to me now, with me in college, very different, you know. In college, the grade was predetermined, right? I was like, I will get a C in this course, because that will keep me from graduating, you know. (corrects) A C keeps me from failing out. This will mean, to get a D in this course, so I don’t have to graduate yet, you know. It was all a balancing act. You know what my GPA was? I told you about this trick, right? Where we had to have a, I had to make at least 2.0? My final GPA, when I left, was 2.01. Yeah. Played it perfectly, except I didn’t do the Math class, which I’m doing now, at a point in my life when it’s actually going to be useful to me, so... [00:40:44]

THERAPIST: Well, and you’re, you know, I think you’re also facing a lot of that kind of anxiety that you encounter with math.

CLIENT: To a degree, but like, it’s not as hard as people always said it was. When I read in Outliers that math was just practice, it changed a lot of how I viewed it. It was like, Patrick has practiced math for years, so he’s good at it. And Eugene has practiced math for years and is also naturally talented at it. So (sighs)...

THERAPIST: So the 89 was infuriating.

CLIENT: Yeah. I wanted at least a 90. So...

THERAPIST: What did it mean to you? Tell, what...

CLIENT: It’s not an A! (therapist affirms) (pause) It’s not an A. I’m an A student when I choose to be, so this was not an A.

THERAPIST: It’s almost like you describe it as being unacceptable. [00:41:41]

CLIENT: Yes! This is a slap in my face, by myself, you know? (therapist affirms) So I’m like, when I go in, I’m going to sit down with the professor and look over the test and see like, where they’re giving partial credit for stuff, because I think this graph that I drew like, it might have been confusing to the people grading it. They might have marked me down for it. (pause) And so... if that’s the issue, I’ll be like, I need one more point, you know. Like, that’s all I care about (therapist affirms), just one more point, and then 90. I’ll take an A-.

THERAPIST: Tell me, what is it that’s intolerable, tell, what is it?

CLIENT: (sighs) Carl, I am a fucking genius, right? If I decide to get an A in a course, there is no reason why I should not get an A in the course, right? I mean, that’s all there is to it, right? I am better than that, you know? Ginny is like, “B+ is great!” I’m like, “A B+ is not great. B+ is not great.” (therapist affirms) A B+ is a normal person getting a grade. I don’t want to be a fucking normal person. That disgusts me. It’s a world of goldfish, to quote Mycroft. Now mind you, that’s hyperbole of the highest degree. But, you know, in Sherlock’s world (and that show is great), a discussion with Mycroft, his older brother, and Sherlock, and they talk about growing up together. Sherlock is like, “I thought I was an idiot.” [00:43:04]

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, because his brother is so much smarter.

CLIENT: Yeah, he’s like, “So did I!” It’s like, “We had no idea until we met regular children.” He was like, “Can you imagine, Sherlock? If you seem slow to me, how does everyone else? I live in a world of goldfish.” You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah, there is like, a kind of contempt for average (client affirms), and average people. (client affirms) If you get a whiff of it like, of an 89, it’s like...

CLIENT: I don’t like it. I don’t like it at all. It’s like, now in college, when I got a B+ on a paper I wrote in two hours, you know...

THERAPIST: That you can handle.

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s fine, whatever. I spent two hours on it. I mean, the professor is like, “The paper was pretty good.” I’m like, “Yeah, I spent two hours like...” “If you had spent three, this probably would have been an A.” I’m like, “I don’t need an A.”

THERAPIST: Yeah, no that’s...

CLIENT: That wasn’t the grade I needed to keep my GPA where it was. A B+ would be fine.

THERAPIST: You really want an A in this. [00:43:55]

CLIENT: Yeah, I want to be good at this. I want to walk out of this saying, “No, I know how to do statistics,” you know. I don’t really fucking need to make a histogram or fucking pareto (ph) chart or like a pareto (ph) chart, I think or thing or like a stem leaf table. I don’t need to make these things, there is no reason to do these. This is the basics, this is just, you know, x + 5y = 10. Okay, let’s try to figure out what these variables mean, you know. Like, I need a second equation to solve that first one, but still, it’s fine, whatever, you know. (sighs) Yeah. You always need one more equation than exists for some of the variables. If you have three variables, you need four equations. You make the fourth equation out of any one of the previous three. These systems of equations, and now you know the answers to everything, right?

THERAPIST: Did you know what, did they give you the test back? [00:44:50]

CLIENT: Well, I’ll see it when I go in. (therapist affirms) I’ll be like, “Let’s take a look,” and go over it with the professor and be like, “Let’s squeeze another point out of this somewhere,” you know? Um... yeah.

THERAPIST: It will be interesting to see what you did, you know...

CLIENT: Yeah, I want to know what I did wrong. My thinking is that I misnamed the types of data. For some reason, that is the trickiest part for me. There are only a few levels of measurement with data. For instance, there are, there is nominal (therapist repeats), there is ordinal (therapist repeats), integral, and ratio. (therapist affirms) Right, exactly. I have a harder time with integral and ratio, determining which of these two it is. (therapist affirms) I keep telling myself ratio, if double matters. If twice this matters, then that’s ratio, right? Otherwise, it’s integral, right? If the number matters, if it’s just the distance between the numbers matters, but double doesn’t matter, then it’s integral. [00:45:47]

For instance, when someone says, “Well, this car is a 2002 car and this car is a 2004 car,” that’s integral data, right? Because you’re saying, “Well, this car is twice as old as this car, it’s not really what we’re looking for. Right? We’re looking for how much older is this car than that car?” By years. Um... Or maybe not. Maybe I got that one wrong. Maybe that was ratio data, you know? (therapist affirms) But I’ll find out and I’ll have to study those terms some more, until I get them down. But nominal is the easiest one, you know? It’s just this fucking quan , not quan , it’s qualitative (therapist affirms) just the name.

THERAPIST: Yeah, an ordinal is just the order.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. Where the space between the numbers has no relevance whatsoever, because even in context, there is less, you know... Unless one knows every single bit of information, in which case then it’s integral, still might not even matter. But, again, the difference in the second-best student and the third-best student might be significantly greater than the difference between the third-best student and the fourth-best student, right? So therefore, it’s ordinal. Yeah. Integral is only when the distance matters, ratio is when double matters. [00:47:00]

(pause) That’s actually a pretty good example. For a while, I was struggling with it in the book, until I went on and read the next section, ratio data. I didn’t get it, but like, for instance, integral data; it doesn’t make sense. Instead of 20 degrees Celsius is twice as hot as 10 degrees Celsius. I mean like, that’s stupid. 20 degrees Celsius is twice as hot as 10 degrees Celsius. That’s the scale we’ve determined. Twenty is twice 10, therefore it, this makes no sense. Link it to ratio, you’re like, Ah! In ratio, you care about whether or not, right? Where you should have said, “In integral data, this doesn’t make sense to say 20 is double 10.” You should have said, “In integral we don’t care that 20 is double 10. That’s not what we’re looking for. That would have been a better way to write that book.” (therapist affirms) Quality assurance, boom! That’s what I’m here for! (sighs) To fix mistakes of very smart people. (therapist affirms) (pause) Am I arrogant this way, Carl? Am I arrogant, you know? I’m fine with that, if I am, you know. But... [00:48:06]

THERAPIST: Are you arrogant...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I don’t think of it as arrogance... I think of it as like a... something to do with a real powerful feeling of, feelings around... well, I mean, I think of one, of expecting a lot of yourself in a way that’s very good, that you want to strive for the best of yourself.

CLIENT: Yes! Yes. It is the only responsible way to live.

THERAPIST: Yeah! And there is something too, on the other edge of that, the other side of that is some kind of real powerful... there is a like a kind of a hate for... for incompetence or something.

CLIENT: Yes! You put it very well. I do not suffer fools lightly. The phrase, of course, has been around for years, but you’re the first one to say it to me. You know, it’s true. (therapist affirms) I don’t. As Charles pointed out about me, everything is either broken or could be improved. (therapist affirms) Which is also true. (therapist affirms) Broken or could be improved, and that applies more to myself. [00:49:04]

THERAPIST: And the broken is very... really, just has a lot of emotional significance.

CLIENT: Yeah, it must be addressed.

THERAPIST: It really does.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, it’s making me improve. Okay, maybe flip it off until later, right? Everything can be improved. But if something is broken, that must be addressed. And it must be addressed with prejudice, if need be. You know, to really go in there. I mean, that’s what people don’t like about me.

THERAPIST: There is almost, too, like when you describe it, there is a sense of you having ahold on like, some element of danger that could be associated with it.

CLIENT: I suppose that’s true. My mother is broken and therefore dangerous. But I look at Colbie, who is well broken in this way. (therapist affirms) Why do you date men who talk down to you?

THERAPIST: That’s, that’s right.

CLIENT: There is something wrong there. You’ve been broken in this way. What broke you? Right? And...

THERAPIST: And we need to fix it!

CLIENT: Yeah, and we need to fix it, because it’s harmful to you.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. You’re going to be in... it detracts to something harmful. [00:50:04]

CLIENT: And that’s, again, those are my choices, who gets to stay and who gets to go in the group. Do you contribute or do you detract? If you detract, you go.

THERAPIST: The harmful person goes.

CLIENT: Yes. If you contribute, we’d love to have you. (therapist affirms) If you don’t contribute, I have no use for you. Charles finds that very cold, with me. He has a friend who, he’s a huge drain on his emotional resources, and all sorts of just various other resources. Drew is a friend of ours, for a while, but I basically let her go, when it came to the point where she was broken, didn’t want to be fixed, you know. I was like, “All right, well...” All she does is drain resources. I asked Charles, I was like, “Why do you persist in this relationship?” I’m like, “Why...?” He was like, “Because she needs my help.” I’m like, “Which you’ll never be able to give her enough help. All she can do is take from you.”

THERAPIST: She didn’t take the help.

CLIENT: And he’s like, “I can’t look at people that way, the way you do.’ Do they add or do they detract?’“ Right? He was like, “I can’t.” He’s like, “That’s not what I’m looking at. I’m looking at ‘Do they need me?’“ I’m like, “That’s a very interesting way to look at the world.” [00:51:12]

THERAPIST: Not yours, but...

CLIENT: It’s not mine. But that is very interesting. I suppose it takes all kinds. Although it doesn’t. It takes certain types of kinds. The other kinds need to be excised, you know. (therapist affirms) Not everyone in prison. A lot of them could be let out, for non-violent drug offenses, (inaudible). Why are we keeping them away from society? They would kill themselves eventually. Like, maybe they’ll get better. They’re broken, so we can fix them, they will improve or they will continue to break until they are dead. Philip Seymour Hoffman, poor guy! (therapist affirms) Poor guy, great actor. Heroin, man! (therapist affirms) Heroin just, it just kills you!

THERAPIST: He was, apparently, did you hear, he was clean for 23 years or something like that?

CLIENT: Yeah, man. I mean, I didn’t know it was that long, but I know he really struggled for a long...

THERAPIST: And then he went back a couple of years ago.

CLIENT: Well, then there you go. I mean, it’s heroin. Quitting something is something you do every day of the rest of your life. [00:52:09]

THERAPIST: Yeah, that was terrible.

CLIENT: Yeah, these fucking e-cigarettes? (pause) Pretty sure those are just going to give you mouth cancer, which is worse than lung cancer, because you live with your mouth cancer, (inaudible) mouth.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I know they’re outlawing it. They’re trying to outlaw it in a couple of states.

CLIENT: Yeah?

CLIENT: Wow, that’s great. I mean, in a state that’s like, “We use fine (ph), e-cigarettes are bad.” (chuckles)

THERAPIST: (chuckles) How about that!

CLIENT: Yeah, I’m down today. If they outlawed tobacco, I would be just as fine. I’m like, “It just kills you. It does nothing else but kill you.” Nicotine itself, you have to wear gloves when you work in tobacco; otherwise, you will get skin cancer.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah, and working with the leaves that often, nicotine will eventually seep into your skin; it’s cancerous!

THERAPIST: Oh, if you do, if you actually do the picking of the tobacco leaves?

CLIENT: Yeah, they have to wear gloves or else they’ll get skin cancer. Nicotine is just poison. It’s just poison. People ask, “What is the purpose of a plant that’s just poison?” It’s like, someone said, “Well, tobacco usually grows in places naturally where the earth needs to recover, where it needs to be left alone.” (therapist responds) Similar to poison ivy. [00:53:20]

THERAPIST: Yeah, so it’s an evolutionary kind of thing.

CLIENT: Yeah. The earth is a living organism, right? I mean, dirt is alive. There is so much life in dirt. I finally decided I’m going to be vegetarian, because plants grow better when they feed on blood and bone.

THERAPIST: Huh!

CLIENT: That’s what the earth wants. It wants blood and bone. That’s why we should all be buried, instead of cremated, if you’re going to be responsible about it, you know. I mean, put your chemicals back in the earth.

THERAPIST: Ashes to ashes... or something like that.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly.

THERAPIST: Well, listen. My advice, again. Those are strikes, what happened at the other jobs. (client affirms) That don’t need, you don’t have to apologize.

CLIENT: That’s right. Okay. I’ll keep that in mind. I will not apologize for those. (therapist affirms) I made good choices for good reasons, some thought and effort. (pause) They failed me, I did not fail them. [00:54:24]

THERAPIST: Yeah, you got... You did what you went there to do and you didn’t...

CLIENT: I accomplished my goals and when they didn’t want to... be improved, I left, because I don’t’ stay in abusive relationships. Seems pretty logical to me.

THERAPIST: Well, all right. So tomorrow, what time is it at?

CLIENT: What time is what at?

THERAPIST: The interview.

CLIENT: Oh. 3:00 to 5:00. (therapist affirms) Yeah, two hours. That’s, yeah, serious (inaudible) company to be talking to a person. Yeah. An interview is about 30 minutes, less if I return in the first 15 minutes. They’re not good for anything.

THERAPIST: And you’re going to meet with...

CLIENT: The CEO, who I just briefly met, and some of the other founders, two of which I have worked with in the past. (therapist affirms) So, that should help.

THERAPIST: Yeah, good.

CLIENT: And the one guy they have there is a guy that I hired and trained, so...

THERAPIST: And you had a good relationship with him?

CLIENT: Yeah. With all three of those guys.

THERAPIST: I mean, with the guy? (client affirms) Oh, yeah? Okay. [00:55:26]

CLIENT: Good tester, smart guy. We even talked. Oh, shit! Do you know of any psychologists you can recommend? (therapist affirms) To... He is looking for a psychologist and he can’t really find one easily. So... when I come back Thursday, I might ask you to write down a couple of names or something (therapist affirms), contact numbers.

THERAPIST: If you could find out if they have any restrictions about insurance...

CLIENT: Yeah, I could ask. Gender doesn’t matter, so...

THERAPIST: Yeah, I could definitely give you names. Whether the insurance is...

CLIENT: That’s the tricky part. (therapist affirms) All right. I’ll ask around.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Thanks.

END TRANSCRIPT