TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: No. Extra weight and slow, wide people delayed me about ten minutes on the walk home from Davis.

THERAPIST: Right, those sidewalks where you can’t get around people?

CLIENT: There was one kind gentleman who stood aside for two of us. He was like, “I walk very slowly.” Thank you, sir. Kindly. What a kind fellow. Ginny is gone. She went away yesterday and she’ll be back later in the week. She’s in Chicago on business. I’ve been getting into some of the habits which I do often when she goes. I ordered the wrong pizza, ordered the wrong wings. [00:01:01] It’s a little too spicy for me in the beginning.

THERAPIST: You do that on purpose? You order different food?

CLIENT: Kind of. It’s kind of like – I don’t know – one of those little defiance things I’m not supposed to do. Not that she would stop me if she were there. She might, at worse, be like “you’re sure ordering a lot of spicy things lately.” I might then say “yeah.” She might be like, “Isn’t that bad for your stomach?” out of concern. I would be like “yeah.” It’s like four sentences out of life that I don’t have to use. (laughs)

THERAPIST: It’s something like you not having the watching eye.

CLIENT: Ginny is one of those more judgment-free creatures.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I realize. Nonetheless . . .

CLIENT: Nonetheless. Nonetheless.

THERAPIST: The difference between having somebody watching. [00:01:59]

CLIENT: Yeah, so I’m watching movies. I tried to watch Matrix Reloaded and I was like it does not stand up. The special effects were pushing the boundaries of CGI at that point and still weren’t quite good enough. Now I haven’t seen [ ] (inaudible at 00:02:17). No, I’m sorry. I can’t just watch some poorly-animated cartoon run around and fight a bunch of dudes. I’m here to see a movie, not a CGI flick.

THERAPIST: So it really doesn’t even hold the plot? That’s amazing.

CLIENT: Nor does the fighting even. You can see Keanu Reeves inexperience now. The Matrix opened the door to the west for stuff like Crouching Tiger and that sort of genre of real [Bushu] (ph?). Once you’ve seen that it’s like, oh, okay. Keanu Reeves. I see. [00:03:03] What are you doing? And you can see, as well, he’s very clearly unmatched by a lot of his opponents they’re bringing in. There is that one guy who is like, “I’m only here to fight you so that I can be like – ta-da, we fought. Now that we fought I’ll show you where the oracle is. I had to be sure you were the one and I can only know this when we’re fighting.” They just hired a famous guy to fight. That’s sweet. We’re having a fight scene. Come on. I thought there were a lot of missed opportunities with The Matrix movies, second and third. Apparently that woman who wrote the Matrix novel finally got some restitution from the Coen brothers from them plagiarizing it into a movie.

THERAPIST: What’s that?

CLIENT: There was some talk of it being almost urban legend, but apparently she’s gotten her just restitution, but the Coen brothers and whoever fucking made The Matrix, the Coen brothers, those other dudes. [00:04:05] They had actually seen a crappy novel that had gotten released and were “Oh, we like this. Let’s make it into a movie.” She was like “What the fuck? That’s my not-very-well-known book.” They were like, “Yeah, we thought we could get away with it.”

THERAPIST: They didn’t buy the rights from her?

CLIENT: No, no. They just went and did it. They didn’t think anyone would be like, “Hey – you can’t take my book. Who the fuck are you?” “We made The Matrix. We invented [bullet-time] (ph?) technology.” The Matrix is still a fantastic movie. They didn’t do CGI in The Matrix. They didn’t CGI their fights. It was all wire work, like real Bushu.

THERAPIST: Bushu is what? Hong Kong?

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s a style in the movie. Hong Kong was like Chinese; Korean, there is a lot of it as well. [00:04:59] The Eastern style was very flashy, intricate martial arts. Fight choreography is sort of complicated and fast and stylish.

THERAPIST: Hands on.

CLIENT: Exactly and it is advanced. Kung Fu is way advanced. If someone has training in Kung Fu and you have no training, they have a significant advantage over you in a fight. But if they’re trained in Kung Fu and you’re trained in just about anything else that’s not fantasy-based, you’ve got a very strong advantage over them because you’ve learned how to fight while they want to dance, and you don’t want to bring dance to a fight party unless you’re incredibly good; unless you’re one of those secret masters who can transfer the knowledge of one specialized form they’ve studied and suddenly their opponent would be on the ground. As you have seen in various fights with []. You can’t. Kung Fu does not have any application inside combat sports. People who come in and are like, “Yep, I’ve got this mastery of various styles and forms and ancient traditions,” it doesn’t stand up if someone is tackling you and punching you in the face. [00:06:09] You have no defense for that; and that’s the first thing they’re going to try to do – or one of the things. Maybe if they’ll stand up and box you. They’ll probably do kickboxing. They’re probably trained specifically to fight people in a ring or they’re in an octagon, which you’ve learned that they would counter with various moves that these people don’t know. They’re just going to keep trying to punch you in the head and the body. And if that doesn’t work, if they can’t expose that game, then they’re going to try to take it to the ground. No matter how bad they are on the ground, now they know they’re better than you on the ground. Fantasy martial arts. You do see occasional people like Lyoto Machida who comes in with a very traditional karate background. He actually fights blade and stance a lot of times, which is just considered absolute taboo by any modern fighting standards. [00:07:05] Like the stances you see in the Karate Kid movies and all those formal karate movies.

THERAPIST: Oh, that’s blade and stance?

CLIENT: Yeah. With my hand I can do this and I come across with a cross, but I present less targets for my body for my opponent, which is one thing I kind of knew. But you often have to bring your feet together when you want to move or, perhaps, cross your feet when you want to move, which puts you at a real disadvantage. Your front-leg kick is only going to be so good. You can keep some distance and you do some stuff. Not much. You can side kick, but sidekicks are easier to see coming if you’re a real fighter. If you have a fast side kick – awesome – and faster. [00:08:01] But still you have this one jab and the problem is that when you want to cross, you have to come across your entire body from way back here. You give up two weapons for the slight advantage of being harder to punch directly in the face or directly in the kidney. But the other guy has full weapons and he’s still defending against your two just as easily. He’s got everything in this fight and you’ve got two things. If you’re bladed and he wants to take to the ground, you’re going to go to the ground. This guy is very traditional and has done karate since he was three years old, but then he also studies Jujitsu which is, basically, octagon boxing. He fights bladed often and he can do it. He’s very, very good at it, but that’s not exclusively what he does. Were it, he wouldn’t have done as well as he does. [00:09:00] In fact, while very dangerous for a long time, he’s not as dangerous as he used to be. He pulled off the Karate Kid [crane kick] (ph?), the flying crane kick technique in one fight with it. That was magical. That’s it. That’s the crane technique; that’s a flying back-front kick – wham. You see the tooth in slow motion fly out of the guy’s face. He still hasn’t found it by the end of the announcement parts. [Randy Couture] (sp?) is my favorite fighter of all time. They’re like, “Are you going to fight again?” He’s like, “No, I’m done.” The guy was like 37 at this point.

THERAPIST: Who was the guy that just got his leg wrecked?

CLIENT: That was Silva. He got turned around. He’s been in a couple of small movies, like The Expendibles, here and there. [00:10:03] He was a fighter and a gentleman. He would talk to talk some smack for the fight, but mostly on technical points. He would be like, “His boxing is very sloppy so I’m not really worried about that. I know that my Greco-Roman skills will win out over his at any point in time, so very likely I’ll take him to the ground and beat him up, and that’s going to be the end of the fight. That’s what I think. Sorry.”

THERAPIST: What do you like about him? What do you like about Couture?

CLIENT: Just that he was [ ] (inaudible at 00:10:35). No big deal. “I out boxed him in this fight” or “he wasn’t good enough on the ground; I was better.” You’ve heard of Bill Belichick – sort of without that gruffness to him. It’s more like, “This is why I won; this is why he lost.” It has nothing to do with him as a person. This is a sport we both play and I’m very good at it. [00:11:02] I remember there was this younger guy at the time who is now a fight manager for Women’s UFC, Tito Ortis, who was a big deal because he was really heavy up top and he could get to the ground and then he could just slam you in the face over and over again – just speed and power and ferocity. For a long time it was very hard for people to defend against that. That was the real ground and pound when that became a very viable technique.

THERAPIST: Get someone to the ground and just . . .

CLIENT: Yeah, if you can get them on the ground and you can definitely throw shots at them for a long time. That’s very advantageous, but he had so much power in that position and he had so much weight he would just lean forward on you and you couldn’t buck him – unstoppable, completely unstoppable once the [ ] (inaudible at 00:11:49) was over. He was terrifying and so people had to learn a lot. How do we deal with a really aggressive ground and pounder? [00:11:58] That changed the sport some more, as well. He wanted to fight Randy Couture because Randy Couture was the best in the world. He was like, “Yeah, I’ll fight you.” At that point he was like, “You’re ten years younger than I am, a good guy. You’re top heavy,” whereas Couture has a fighter’s body, evenly distributed muscle mass across his whole body. Ortis was always talking some crazy shit because that’s what he does. He’s not the smartest guy in the world. He just loves to talk shit because he has, so far, beaten the crap out of everybody. (inaudible at 00:12:35) fighter ever born. Randy is like, “Yeah, he’s young. He thinks he’s incredibly good. He’s definitely got some dangerous moves and some power, but I think ultimately he doesn’t have the skills to take me out.” And so in the fight, at one point he’s trying to ground pound Randy and he can’t get Randy on the ground. Randy is just like, “I’m just a better wrestler. You can’t put me on the ground if I don’t want to be there. [00:12:58] And if we do get on the ground, very unlikely that you will end up on top. I’m going to get up and I’m going to box you because I’m a better boxer.” So at one point, in desperation Ortis gives it up trying to do it with an arm bar. He gives it everything he has with this arm bar, but he’s got it wrong. Randy is just standing there while Ortis is putting all his power into trying to bend his arm the wrong way. Randy is standing up a little bent over because the guy has his arm. He looks at the camera and is like, this is wrong. He can’t possibly get arm-barred from there and he has no idea. So he starts spanking Tito. He starts slapping his ass. He’s smiling at the camera, just spanking him. (laughs) Like what do you want me to do right now? This kid doesn’t know what’s going on. And then he beats the crap out of Tito Ortis and wins.

THERAPIST: Almost like he was teaching him a lesson.

CLIENT: Yeah, teaching him a little lesson. You’re not anywhere near as awesome as you think you are. [00:13:59] You surprised a lot of people. They tried to do a similar thing with Couture and Brock Lesnar in super heavyweight, which is unfair. That’s basically whatever weight you are is whatever weight you are. Rock is a huge, huge dude – bigger than Couture. Couture boxed him and fought him for a long time. He did a great job. He got punched once in the head and the fight was over. They were like, “Why did you go down?” He was like, “He’s a huge guy. He punched me straight in the head once. That’s what it took.” Simple.

THERAPIST: One clear shot?

CLIENT: Yeah. All he needed was one good shot and the fight was over. At the time he was just to outbox him before he got that one in, because that’s all you can do. That’s the best you can do. Mass wins unless you can out-skill mass. Unless you can out-skill mass, it’s going to beat you. [00:14:58] But those are fighters. I’ve been watching some great stuff trying to fight like Aikido in an MMA where Aikido practitioners are like, “No, you can’t stand up to fighters. I’m sorry.” Lots of what Aikido does is I will evade and I will use your own momentum against you, but really in an octagon you can’t run far enough.

THERAPIST: They’re telling you this?

CLIENT: Yeah, I watch videos on this. These are Aikido style stuff. And it’s unfortunate. They get hurt badly.

THERAPIST: Oh, people who use that style.

CLIENT: People who use Aikido, any of the Kung Fu, any of the Aikido. Any of the magical, incredible stuff.

THERAPIST: There’s not enough room?

CLIENT: There is not enough room to run away. There is also no real answer for jabs. Aikido is where I take big swings at you and I throw you around. Aikido might be great self-defense for if someone tries to grab you in the street. You throw him off and run. [00:16:02] [Or something close happens you get a joint walk.] (ph?) They have effective things. Everything has to be effective; but in a ring, it’s not. You can’t do joint walks. It’s like [ ] (inaudible at 00:16:15). So, you’re [ ] (inaudible at 00:16:16). How much [ ] do you use in the ring? Well, not much. [ ] eye gouging and front kicking and breaking of things. I’m a kickboxer when I get in there with a fucking hell of a front kick. Once he got into the middle of the ring, the guy goes flying with his feet back as far as he can and bounces off the octagon almost half the distance. Maybe a third of the distance back from where the guy originally kicked him, a ridiculous body shot. Again, he’s like, [“In the O.C. I do this, but in Krav I do this whole other thing. I don’t do the Krav; Krav isn’t for fighting, Krav] (ph?)n is for running away and going home, which is true. That’s what they even tell you. They teach you two things. They teach you self-defense, which is for when someone attacks you by surprise and you end up fighting for a few seconds and you run like hell. And then we teach fighting, which you should never be in. If you ever get in this position, you’ve fucked up very badly. You were squaring off with someone else. You need kick-boxing for that, dirty kick-boxing.

THERAPIST: Mostly stay out of the fight?

CLIENT: Yeah, don’t get into the fight. Fighting is dangerous, very dangerous.

THERAPIST: It is really self-defense as opposed to an offense.

CLIENT: Hitting you quickly enough and hard enough to make you not want to chase me. So when I run, you’re not going to chase me, just so the other guy doesn’t want that experience again. [00:17:58] Hunter Otis (sp?), a friend of mine, did a very traditional Tai kwon do stuff through high school and some college and then he lapsed from doing it, so he lost his skills and many years have gone by since he’s actually done any of it. One day he’s walking home in not the best neighborhood. These two kids grab him from an alley and throw him into an alley and start throwing punches at him. He’s got a big, puffy coat on, so he was absorbing some shock with it. He got a couple of shots in and the people started covering up. And as soon as they started covering up, he just started throwing elbows like crazy and he caught one or two in there. But that was enough, they ran. They were like, “Oh, okay. If you’re actually going to hit back we don’t want any part of this.” Especially when you start throwing elbows. It’s like – oh, elbows; someone has training. We’re fighting a person who has training. (laughs) They quickly run. Elbows can end fights. Elbows can end fights very quickly. Quick, light elbows can just rip this open and rip this open, if you get lucky. [00:19:02] If this is open, then the fight is over quickly. His head is going to bleed and it’s going to go into his face.

THERAPIST: Yeah, they can’t see.

CLIENT: They’ll stop fights with that, you’ll see. It’s over his eye; fight’s over. He won’t be able to fight. You see people start to lose the loss of an eye in a fight. Blood is just getting in there and it’s like yeah, that’s no good. It’s just that now you can’t stop whatever is coming from that side. You don’t know what’s there. I didn’t come here to talk about UFC.

THERAPIST: What about fighting on the [ ] (inaudible at 00:19:45)? Self-defense more?

CLIENT: I don’t know. I like it. I’ve been watching some BJJ stuff because that’s the next thing I need to study.

THERAPIST: What is it?

CLIENT: Brazilian Jujitsu, which is pretty much shown once you hit the ground. [00:20:05] That’s what you need to know. If you don’t understand that, then you’re smashed at that point.

THERAPIST: It’s how to fight when somebody is on the ground with you?

CLIENT: Yes, how to stay out of that and, once you’re there, how to control someone until you decide to take them out or break their arm or whatever, to be in control of that situation. And it’s great for one-on-one and that sort of thing. When it’s multiple people, you have to use [Krav] (ph?) techniques first and escape. (pause) People always say in the fight take out the biggest guy first; take out the alpha guy who is in your face. Some advice from some of the videos from guys who have actually been in a lot of street fights have been like “what if people show up and they want to kick your ass?” He was like, “Really what you do is know who is the big guy and then when the second is over the side, I’m looking for the big guy who’s talking to me and – wham – knock out the second. A one-hand shot immediately and then come back with the other hand and smash the alpha and then run.” At that point, the rest of them are like, “Those were the two guys. That was the front.” [Sharkey] (sp?) has another theory which is like if there is a smallest dude and you can just rush him and beat the crap out of him, just blow through him. (laughs) Smash up the smallest dude immediately. [ ] (inaudible at 00:21:54) That can work really well, too, because people are like “I’m not much bigger than that guy.” [00:22:06] Really, a couple of quick strikes just to make them think that maybe it’s not worth chasing you.

THERAPIST: It’s making me think about and noticing that you’re talking about fighting a lot – or maybe I sort of captured it as that – it made me think about Ginny being away and you talking about how when she’s gone, the house just feels a little less safe.

CLIENT: It does. I slept on the couch again last night.

THERAPIST: Did she leave yesterday?

CLIENT: Yesterday. She left after I woke.

THERAPIST: I imagine the videos might be a reminder.

CLIENT: It’s probably true. I think more about fighting. I think more about things going wrong. [00:23:03]

THERAPIST: A really powerful feeling comes on when she’s gone.

CLIENT: Certainly. I find that this weed is more potent than I expected. It lasts far longer than I expect it to – hours. Hours different. It was recommended that I smoke it very sparingly. He was like, “Take two hits and be done.” I would take two hits and then it would be four; and then it would be five and see what happens. It’s potent that way. Still, it’s an irritant to be relied upon. [00:24:06]

THERAPIST: Can you describe what is the potency? What elements?

CLIENT: How long does it last?

THERAPIST: The length of it.

CLIENT: It keeps you up. It keeps you up. It allows me to go longer without eating. I haven’t done so today; I’ll have to briefly between now and Carla’s or I’ll just grab a coffee and a donut and soak up some of the caffeine.

THERAPIST: Is that at all preferable for you to not have to eat?

CLIENT: Yeah, honestly. Honestly, not to have to eat is great. I remember in Lisbon eating stuff over there and being like, “I understand for the first time why people would eat intentionally.” The food over there was so good. It was so good. [00:25:00] Was I smoking weed there? Yes, certainly, but I’ve eaten food while stoned before and not been like “this is the best shit in the world.” I’m a pro at that sort of stuff. Still, some of the food was just so good and made with such intent.

THERAPIST: Like care?

CLIENT: Yeah. They knew what the finished product was that they wanted. They had a goal in mind for ideal. It’s like I’m going to fucking make a sandwich today and, by God, this was the best sandwich I made today, just a little bit better than the previous one. Every day I’m going to make better sandwiches than I made the previous day.

THERAPIST: Different than a half-assed sandwich?

CLIENT: Different than a half-assed sandwich, for sure. [ ] (inaudible at 00:25:51) Here, I made you a fucking sandwich. No, go make two of them so you have one later. It’s called a [ ].

THERAPIST: I remember you telling me. [00:26:01]

CLIENT: It just means they’re really good. (laughs) It was a really good one. So yeah, I’ll definitely take that. That sounds really good. (laughs) Thank you very much. I loved Lisbon. I loved Lisbon. It was so freeing to be there. I walked parts of the city at night that were not terribly populated, but also not terribly unpopulated, not too late. Go to this little place around the corner, Spirit, where they had a picture of a superhero from way back when – Spirit.

THERAPIST: Now I’m thinking of The Shadow.

CLIENT: Right, very similar. It was a lovely little place, a lovely little place.

THERAPIST: What was it?

CLIENT: It was a little coffee shop. You just go in, there was a tiled bar where you order what you want. [00:27:04] There were a couple of little tables for sitting at, some slightly psychedelic paintings on the walls, lots of bright, different colors and geometric shapes.

THERAPIST: The coffee shops are the ones where they do sell marijuana?

CLIENT: Yeah. Any smoking matter. And they give you a little tube to put the rest of the joint in so you can smoke it later, either come back later that day or smoke it in some other shop. They just don’t really care which coffee shop you smoke it in as long as you do. Most people smoke weed out front of them and there was one where there was this nice café area and you smoke a joint and these two little American girls come walking up, “You can’t be smoking. [ ] (inaudible at 00:27:56).” Yep, that’s what’s happening, kids. That’s what’s happening. [00:28:03] This cannot be the thing I rely upon right now. It just can’t be. I told you – I don’t know if I did tell you – about the job. The interview. Did I tell you about anything after that?

THERAPIST: You were waiting to hear for the game night.

CLIENT: That was something else. I got back and they were like, “We decided we didn’t need a Director right now, but we want to talk to you about a production role. Are you interested in a production role?” “Yeah. I’m not sure exactly what that is yet. Talk about it. Figure out what you want that to be and we’ll talk about it.” Yeah, I would totally do that because then I could still help out on the QA side and be like great, we’ll still build this. You’ll still get that value from me.”

THERAPIST: More on the production side, but you’ve been wanting to get over to . . .

CLIENT: I have. I have, and this would be a good place to do it. It’s a small company, a small game. [00:29:06] I could just be like, “All right. You guys have generally kept to your own schedule and the schedule is also fluid, so [ ] (inaudible at 00:29:12) what is our goal? How long will we be here?”

THERAPIST: But they want you to be there? It sounds like they want you to do . . .

CLIENT: They just want me, yeah, which is nice. I guess I was the one branding myself. I don’t care what it is you call me. You’re hiring me. I will come into your place of office and I will dress for this and I will do work of some kind. I will see what must be done. After a couple of weeks, I’ll know and we’ll get started. That’s just the thing with that. It’s a way to get started.

THERAPIST: So how was it to hear that?

CLIENT: It was nice. It was validating. [00:29:59] There was [ ] (inaudible at 00:30:01) that was like “We don’t need a director [ ] current size,” but some of the guys want to talk to you about a producer-type role. I’m like all right. He said, “We want to know if there is any interest from you before we talk about that at all.” Again, I’m totally interested with that. So we’ll see. We’ll see what they come back with and when they come back. Then we’ll talk about that. Yeah; hell yeah.

THERAPIST: But you were saying that in the context that you can’t keep doing this this way.

CLIENT: I can’t just keep smoking weed – this particular type of weed. I can’t do this.

THERAPIST: You’re thinking about how it would affect you.

CLIENT: Yeah. I’ve got shit to do and this definitely has a demotivational effect the more that I smoke. It’s not useful to me; but there is better, cleaner stuff which I can’t get this time of year because it’s hard to grow it. [00:31:09] They’re just growing it outside.

THERAPIST: The Sativa.

CLIENT: The Sativa, yeah. What I go for is what weed is supposed to be because there are optimal conditions outside. It’s much milder and clearer and it’s better. It’s more predictable. It kills motivation less [than it makes you want to do stuff.] (ph?)

THERAPIST: Have you been finding it effective for anything like the stats class?

CLIENT: Well I didn’t study much for stats class last night because I’m not retaining this. But I have to go in today. I have to study Chapter 3 and I have to take the Chapter 3 test. That’s what I did last time. Last time I had been smoking weed for a couple of days at least. [00:32:00] Today I smoked it this morning. Let’s see how much it remains by the afternoon.

THERAPIST: How many hits this morning?

CLIENT: Four. Four hits. Twice the recommended amount. How will I do? What will I be like? This is important for me to know. Can I balance this? Is it possible?

THERAPIST: What was two like?

CLIENT: It takes a little bit to set in, right? About the time it takes for two to set in is about the time it takes to smoke three and four, right? So you take your first hit – yeah, whatever. You take your second hit – yeah, still whatever, and you’re like “I’ll take a third.” By the time you take a third and a fourth, the first and second are starting to set in and get to your system. When the third and fourth catch up you’re like, “Oh, wow. I’m very, very stoned,” to the point where I’m double-checking everything. [ ] (inaudible at [0:33:00] [00:33:06] Poor little dog had a peeing accident this morning, so she didn’t get breakfast, which sucks. That’s what you do when a dog starts peeing, you just take away food and see how that goes. She was pissed. She’s like “what the fuck?” Hunter wasn’t even sure if he was allowed to start eating because there wasn’t any food in her bowl. I’m like, “Really, it’s okay.” He checked with me three times. It’s fine. Eat your food. He was like, “Okay. I’m going to do it. Sorry, Lexi. Sucks to be you.”

THERAPIST: How about that?

CLIENT: Yeah. That’s my boy. I have to break up with Carla today. I think that’s what I’ve been avoiding. I have to break up with Carla today.

THERAPIST: How are you going to . . ?

CLIENT: I think the thing is to just to say, “Listen. Honestly, Carla, I have an inherent distrust of [ ] (inaudible at 00:34:01). It’s irrational but it’s there, so this is not going to work. [00:34:07] There is no way I’m going to be able to trust you enough to work with you.” I like Irene Ake. I think I’m going to go with Irene Ake.

THERAPIST: What about it? What does it bring up to do this, though?

CLIENT: I don’t know. Just be like listen, I’m sorry.

THERAPIST: Not an easy thing to do?

CLIENT: To a degree. I’m not firing her for cause. It’s more like this is not going to work, but that’s only what actually matters in this situation.

THERAPIST: What about the things that you were noticing about her, the feelings?

CLIENT: She wasn’t listening to me and other various things? Fine. [00:34:59] But none of that matters because those are what put her on the defensive. I don’t care. I’m not there to fix her. That’s not what the exchange is about. I’m not there to fix her. I’m there to get specific medications and make my life possible. That is what I want. When I want people talking about my life I want to talk to you. There we go. When I want to talk about meds I want it to be very simple. These are the ones I take. These are the ones I need. If there are experimental ones I want to try, I will try them. That’s the thing. She says, “I know it’s not supposed to do this.” But yeah, fuck it. It’s doing it. So stop.

THERAPIST: I know. And that’s the thing that I really was struck by. Carla is not really listening to it.

CLIENT: Not on top of her game, I think.

THERAPIST: I think even the thing that she was going to have you take even more.

CLIENT: Especially when I was experiencing those spot tremors. I was like no. Nothing. Nothing. I’m over 160 pounds now. I went up two shirt sizes. All of my shirts mysteriously shrunk. It’s ridiculous.

THERAPIST: What were you at? What was the weight gain?

CLIENT: I was like 150. I’ve been up from 150 to 160. I was at 150 for a while, 155. I’m definitely over 160 now. I’m definitely the heaviest I’ve ever been in my life. [ ] (inaudible at 00:36:43)

THERAPIST: The Lithium does cause weight gain?

CLIENT: Yeah. When you read about it, yeah. Weight gain, fine tremor in hands. Yeah. A variety of other things, nausea, bowel movements. [00:37:02] I don’t even need it. I can just pop Lithium in the morning.

THERAPIST: And you won’t get sick?

CLIENT: No, it’ doesn’t even make me nauseous. Yeah, it’s a better fit. Lithium doesn’t make me nauseous. It does make me want to kill myself. So there you go.

THERAPIST: That’s not good. Not a good trade-off.

CLIENT: Prozac only made me angry back in the day. So that wasn’t the right thing. Paxil made me flat. And when I went off there were way too many withdrawal effects.

THERAPIST: From Paxil?

CLIENT: Yeah. [ ] (inaudible at 00:37:47) Spatial distortion is what I called it. Space that is warped at times.

THERAPIST: That stuff, yeah. If you’re not smoking at all it can really mess you up because it’s not just your mood that’s affected. Your whole body is affected. [00:38:03]

CLIENT: I’ve been on it twice and it’s like this is the worst. I fucking hate this. The first time I had no idea what the hell was going on and I found out later. I was on break and I didn’t have any [ ] (inaudible at 00:38:18) go on break. I was watching one of the Star Trek movies, maybe First Contact, and I was like, “Wow, these space battles are making me feel weird.” We were leaving the theater and I’m still feeling weird. The day is gone and I’m still feeling weird, like space is warping and slightly off. What’s going on? Anyway. But I have to break up with Carla today and I need Irene Ake’s information. Again, part of me feels bad because I understand Carla’s intentions are pure – or so I’ve been told – which I won’t mention. [00:39:02] “This isn’t going to work for me. I’m never going to be able to trust you. It’s never going to work. I’m not interested in working on it further. I need a bunch of refills. I hope that I can call you for refills if I can’t find someone right away. If Irene Ake is all filled up and I have to find somebody else.”

THERAPIST: Yeah, I can give you other names.

CLIENT: Irene Ake was immensely useful. We had a three-minute interaction and Irene Ake was immensely useful. That’s quite [ ] (inaudible at 00:39:54). (pause) [00:40:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, if you wanted to use Carla that way, maybe she could make the transition easier or something like that. Tell her what’s happening.

CLIENT: Sure, I guess.

THERAPIST: Or not. It’s up to you.

CLIENT: It’s like fuck it, man. Come on. Blank slate here. Blank slate. Here’s what I take. Here’s why I take it. This is how beneficial it is. I want to keep taking these things. I’ve tried this and I didn’t like it. I don’t want to try more powerful stuff. I’m done. This is who I am now. I want to do that. [ ] (inaudible at 00:40:48) listening to my wife. (pause) [00:40:59] I don’t want to be up or down. I don’t want to try new stuff. [I’m glad I’m off the anti-anxiety.] (ph?) I needed that. That was good, but I don’t want to [ ] (inaudible at 00:41:13). This is what I do. If [ ] I’ll ask you. That’s why I’m here. (pause) I don’t know. I just want someone who will fucking listen. Someone who is not like, “Well, I think I have to recommend taking Lithium because I really think it’s going to be better for you.” I don’t want to. I’ve talked about it twice already and I just don’t want to take this. She was like, “No, I really think you should take Lithium.” I did take Lithium and it almost killed me. Okay, well now we’re done. You get your one shot. [00:42:04] If she gives me any shit today about how Lithium doesn’t do that, then okay, we’re done now.

THERAPIST: Of course, man.

CLIENT: Throw her a $20, keep the change and get the fuck out.

THERAPIST: Maybe she does act defensively, but I’d be surprised if she doesn’t take what you’re saying seriously.

CLIENT: How is that better? I have no patience for her. I have no patience for people who misunderstand [what they do is right.] (ph?) She’s a psychiatrist. She is a gatekeeper to medication which keeps me alive. That is her job. If I want to be fiddled with – and I expect her to fiddle – but she’s not the one who determines the [matters] (ph?) in the relationship. It’s not for her to determine if I think this works. [00:43:11]

THERAPIST: No, you’re the customer.

CLIENT: I am. I need her to be a pharmacist – and a good one the one who will just leave me the fuck alone and keep my prescriptions refilled.

THERAPIST: You absolutely don’t have to take it. Obviously, that’s not the arrangement at all.

CLIENT: No. It’s not good.

THERAPIST: I think, too, something about that Lithium really . . .

CLIENT: Yeah. It made me feel worse and worse and worse. I feel awful and then I started stepping down and it still made me feel awful so I stopped taking it. I did the only thing in the world I knew would save me, which is the one thing she said I should never do. (pause) So here we are; I’m alive, but she would have had me dead. [00:44:02] So now what do we do? (pause) (sighs) I lose my temper very easily and I fear I could make her cry. She is not unassailable. She has fears; she has doubts and they are apparent. Some of them are easy. (pause) Some of them are easy. (pause) [00:45:02]

THERAPIST: It’s almost like you’re expecting a fight.

CLIENT: That’s the thing, I don’t want the fight.

THERAPIST: Of course not.

CLIENT: I don’t want to hang out there a whole 45 minutes. This is it. This is not what’s working for me. I’ll just be like, “Look, the Lithium almost killed me. You can say whatever the fuck you want to say.”

THERAPIST: Even when you’re stopping with somebody it’s still supposed to be a collaboration. She’s supposed to be a collaborator in it. I would expect that she will act in that way, but I wouldn’t be surprised – people do; people act defensively.

CLIENT: My sister broke up with her psychiatrist through e-mail and the psychiatrist wrote back, “This is totally inappropriate. You can’t break up with me through e-mail. You have to come in and talk to me.” My sister was like, “No, I don’t think I do. This is something that maybe you should talk to your therapist about.” [00:45:59]

THERAPIST: There is no law.

CLIENT: Yeah, there is no law. It’s just that I made this choice. [ ] (inaudible at 00:46:05) drug dealers. [ ] It’s closer to my house. (pause) Soon. So soon dispensaries open. The right doctor. If I have the right doctor, I can try. I can buy Sativa and see how it works for a week. If it’s better, it’s better.

THERAPIST: How have you noticed it since you’ve stopped the Lithium? Anything?

CLIENT: I stopped Lithium and went back on weed, so I feel like I’m on weed. I haven’t felt intrusive thoughts at all. Immediately gone. No more thoughts of self-harm. A couple of moments I was like “what am I doing with my life?” I can get self-critical. I think that’s an aspect of marijuana. [00:47:03] I’m more aware of aspects of my life that I need to be fixing. [ ] (inaudible at 00:47:11) but it’s briefer, like noticing that’s not even a thing. I’m like, “Well I can’t fix it right now, so [ ].”

THERAPIST: I think, too, there is something very important that happened with the Lithium that you would have maybe similar feelings but – I don’t know if it was that you felt the intensity was stronger, but I don’t remember you saying anything of going to a suicidal place frequently and as persistently.

CLIENT: As it has been the past couple of months, in this past last week, right? Even leading up to that.

THERAPIST: Is that right, though, that you haven’t had that feeling that way?

CLIENT: That bad? It just accelerated so quickly. [00:47:59] With Chantix there were a couple of moments where I was like, “I’d rather just kill myself.” Wait – what? I look up Chantix and am like oh, okay. [Suicidal or addiction. Done. I’m not going to deal with it.] (ph?) And that felt better. That was not anything near as close as just being sad, going down. It felt to me a little bit like going down. I was smoking weed on Sunday with my buddy. This was good. I felt good and I got home and I felt like I was going down; I’m going down. Then it was just this past week that it just accelerated. [ ] (inaudible at 00:48:44) kill myself on Wednesday and I still only had that as a half-depressed day, when my mood [ ].

THERAPIST: Almost like there is something separate happening and it wasn’t that you were fully depressed. [00:49:04]

CLIENT: When I watched there was this thing, here’s a little tick. I’m a little depressed; I was feeling a little down today. Here’s more of a move in a bigger circle, which means I was more angry when I wrote it, and it says “kill myself.” I’m like “this is still not my worst day.” And then Friday, all the way at the very bottom, all the way over to the depressed side, all the way buried in there. I was like, “This is absolutely the lowest I’ve been.” I had a fire in the corner to signify that I smoked marijuana that day and I had other numbers somewhere else that show up. An “x” [ ] (inaudible at 00:49:40), three C’s for Klonopin, even though it’s spelled with a “K”. I didn’t want to write KKK. (laughs) A “Y” for yoga; a smiley face if we had sex. [ ] (inaudible at 00:49:55) [00:49:59]

THERAPIST: And was Ginny the one to point out, too, that she hadn’t seen the suicidality like this?

CLIENT: Yeah. She hasn’t seen it this bad, I don’t think. I’ve certainly never experienced it this badly. A very rational friend of mine was saying, “You should consider going to the hospital with this. If you go to a place, that’s okay. If you need to go somewhere to a few days, you can go somewhere for a few days.” [ ] (inaudible at 00:50:27) I won’t go to a place that won’t let me out.

THERAPIST: They don’t want to keep you. They would, but just for a period of 24 hours.

CLIENT: They won’t want me taking up the bed for someone that could actually use it. [00:51:03] [ ] (inaudible at 00:51:04) as you were on Friday, but it won’t stop and it won’t stop. I’m thinking about the screwdriver, but I’m in a state where I might keep pushing. And what if I then puncture? Then what happens? [ ] (inaudible at 00:51:21) I go over in my mind all those things. I was trying to save myself and have to keep pressure on it and dial 911 with the other hand, which is possible. Figure out which direction the blood is going and try above or below the wound. Try to lean against something.

THERAPIST: I’m glad you called.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It’s good that you called Ake, too.

CLIENT: I called everybody except Ginny. So there you go. Everybody except Ginny. [00:52:06]

THERAPIST: What do you think of that?

CLIENT: It’s good. I told Ginny I want this to be about me. It’s not about my bullshit and she doesn’t have to feel solely responsible as if she’s the only thing in the world that keeps me alive. That’s bullshit. I keep me alive.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you do. (pause)

CLIENT: I was talking to her the other night and I’m starting to laugh at something and she was like, “Wanting to be alive is a good thing.” Isn’t that a funny realization? Wanting to be alive is a good thing. How often do you think about that? It’s like – no, I want to be alive. Oh – I think I’m supposed to want to be alive. [00:53:01] What must it be like?

THERAPIST: I watched that True Detective.

CLIENT: Oh, did you?

THERAPIST: The first one. I can see it.

CLIENT: [ ] (inaudible at 00:53:21) being non-existence.

THERAPIST: And that guy has certainly been through something. [Star. Watching more than that.] (ph?)

CLIENT: It’s a good show. Keep watching.

THERAPIST: What time do you see Carla?

CLIENT: 12:30. Soon. Thursday and then next Monday is 10:30 with Ginny, correct? [00:54:02]

THERAPIST: That’s correct. I’ll let you know if anything changes, but I don’t think it should.

CLIENT: Sorry, I forgot this. [ ] (inaudible at 00:54:15) to fix all this stuff in Carl’s office so we don’t take up his precious time. (laughs)

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