TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I just asked if they provide services.
THERAPIST: Are they?
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: Oh, good, so we're on.
CLIENT: Yes, we are, same time?
THERAPIST: Same time.
CLIENT: I don't have keys to the house.
THERAPIST: They're not on there?
CLIENT: Yeah, I remember taking them off, using them in the door, and then I couldn't get them out of the door, so Deborah took them out of the door and Deborah must have kept them.
THERAPIST: Oh, no.
CLIENT: Along with her set of keys.
THERAPIST: Well, the good thing is you know where to find her.
CLIENT: Shit happens. Yeah, hopefully. I tell you, ah-huh. Yeah, if you use The Ride more than once in a day, it's a no-no. [0:01:03.2]
THERAPIST: Yeah, you were saying that, so if you have multiple appointments.
CLIENT: Yeah, so I have an appointment at 2:00 this afternoon, to see the hand surgeon, and I have to come up with ten dollars for cousin Genevieve. I said to her, what was that, she was over Saturday night, and of course I was already in bed watching TV when she calls to say she's outside. I said okay, so in the bed, she comes with me to watch TV. Of course there was a show on at 9:00, that I had missed when it first came on, and lovely Deborah was recording it, supposedly, but instead she recorded another show. So I wanted to watch the new show, the premiere of "Law and Order, Special Victims." It was on Saturday night, so she's yakking away and yakking away and yakking away. Finally, at 9:00, I told her to shut the fuck up, to watch my show. So she goes I says, "Yeah, and keep it that way." (laughs) But yet, you still miss the fucking show, you know, but I think I got most of it right. Ah-huh. So I says to Dolores, "Don't forget, I need The Ride Monday afternoon." Oh, do you have the ten dollars? Well guess what, she's taking ten dollars in pennies, because I had to give Deborah money to take the bus tomorrow, because she's got to go over to meet her new psychologist tomorrow. [0:03:08.6]
THERAPIST: Where is she going?
CLIENT: I don't know. So that's all right. I got the door-to-door service and Deborah's going to have to take the T.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: But she knows how to take the T, I don't, you know?
THERAPIST: Okay, yeah.
CLIENT: It's been so long since I've taken a bus, I wouldn't know where the fuck I was going or how much it is and how much it isn't. I said, "Well what if you only have a five dollar bill?" Deborah says, "Well, you lose out." You have to have the exact amount.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.
CLIENT: I said oh, all right, fine, leaves that out.
THERAPIST: Maybe pennies will work?
CLIENT: Yeah. So that's you know? I'm saying to myself, I don't fucking believe this one, Mary.
THERAPIST: The ten dollars. [0:04:09.8]
CLIENT: Yeah. That only gets her 22 miles, with 10 dollars of gas.
THERAPIST: Give me a break.
CLIENT: You know, so I says yeah, okay, ah-huh.
THERAPIST: Ah-huh.
CLIENT: So then she tells me that the lady that she is living with, Emma, Emma offered to cook Thanksgiving dinner for Mary and Jodie, if Mary would like that, and Mary says no, that's all right, Emma, you don't have to cook us dinner because Jodie eats dinner home at his father's house, and I go to my cousin's house, which you know, is fucking me. I said maybe I should say well, why don't you just save your ten dollars and give me that for Thanksgiving dinner? But you know, I says I just you know, let's shit on cousin Louise some more. I'm like Jesus Christ, you know? [0:05:22.0]
THERAPIST: Yeah, kind of how did you get in this position, huh?
CLIENT: Yeah. I says no, I think that's a good idea, that she wanted you to stay home for Thanksgiving dinner and have Jodie. I said, "I think you should do it." She says, "Why, where are you going?" I says, "I'm not going anywhere." Well, aren't you having Thanksgiving dinner? I says yeah I am. Well, that means I'm coming over here, doesn't it? What am I supposed to say, fucking no, you know? I says, "Yeah, I guess you are, Mary."
THERAPIST: Well, yeah no, I think what you're getting at, the whole feeling of all right, I'm giving. Mary, I've been giving and giving and giving, but where's the reciprocation, where's the return?
CLIENT: I tell you, and then her eating habits are so atrocious that I mean, I can remember from years back, I never want to go in a restaurant with her. One day last week she was over and Deborah had made supper and Mary was there. Well she sits with her head down the whole time during the meal, here's her plate and here's her head, almost right in it, and she just shovels it in and shovels. I'm surprised she doesn't choke to fucking death. And then, not only does she eat one helping, she had another helping. And Deborah had made, I think there was only like four slices left of garlic bread. Mary took one and then she covered it with more butter, which you know, no need for. Then, I'm not much of a bread eater any more, because it fills me up too soon, so I think I might have taken two bites out of my garlic bread, and Mary took the rest of that, and then Deborah had a piece. So there was one more piece left, Mary cut it in half, because she was taking the other half, and she left the other half. But Deborah didn't want it, so Mary ate three slices of garlic bread, three helpings of macaroni and sausages, and I mean as I say, she just... Deborah was all done with hers, I was all done with mine, Mary's the only one sitting, still at the table. I says, "Mary, does that say anything to you?" She says, "Yeah, you and Deborah eat too fast." I said oh, okay, "It's not because you're on your third helping or anything like that." Well, I never know when I'm going to eat again. I'm like oh, okay. So just like my brother, when he used to say that. [0:08:32.8]
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah. And you're going to feed me.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.
CLIENT: You know? I just want to scream.
THERAPIST: Oh yeah, yeah. I think too, that it seems like any time that you ask for something from somebody, there's always this sort of sense of like well you're going to have to pay for it. You will not be you will never be a burden to other people, you won't kind of imposition other people.
CLIENT: You know, I mean every time I get invited anywhere, I always bring something with me. Mary brings herself, oh and now she's drinking beer with shots of vodka, Smirnov, the flavored one. I said to Deborah, "She must have picked up that habit from Mark," because that was Mark's, you know beer, the shot, yeah, favorite thing. And I mean supposedly, she's a recovering alcoholic. I says oh yeah, she's really doing good, huh, drinking beer and you know, but yet she's still going to meetings. [0:09:54.2]
THERAPIST: Wow, she's really fallen, how about that?
CLIENT: I says, "Mary, anything more than a drink for an alcoholic, and you've gone right back into it." Oh no, I can stop any time I want to. I said, "Every time I see you, you're drinking." You know, it's not once out of a month, it's every night out of the month. She went out Friday night with this friend of hers, and he took her to different bars. Of course, he's paying for the drinks though. Oh, she had two Kahluas, you know mudslides, and then they went to another bar and she had three more different drinks, and then they went to another bar and she had maybe four drinks there. I'm saying to myself, that's eight drinks right there and you know? So yeah, you're really doing good, Mary, you know, really. Glad you're not my counselor, my sponsor, because she sponsors people. It's like oh, okay. [0:11:13.0]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And her mind is going. Let's see, she stayed over my house last Monday, supposedly she had lost her wallet, but yet the wallet was out in the parking lot and the money that she thought she had in the wallet was in her purse. So then Tuesday, I didn't see her, she lost her wallet again at the bank, and then Wednesday, I had seen her car over this friend's house that she was at, and she lost her wallet again. The only places that she could have lost the wallet was, she was with her son, Jodie, and it was missing. It was over at her friend Eliza's house, that it was missing. Well, put two and two together. The next day, she got a phone call from something, and her wallet, someone returned her wallet to them and I says, "Mary, it was over at Eliza's house," because they knew just what doctor you were seeing, so that they called and that's how they found your number. I said Eliza knew that information, I said so you know Eliza and her boyfriend probably stole it, took the money out of it, and then brought it down to this place and said that they found it. You know? I said, so come on, Mary. [0:12:49.6]
THERAPIST: Wait, now who's Eliza?
CLIENT: It's a friend of hers that she sponsors.
THERAPIST: Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, right.
CLIENT: She lives a couple of streets away from me.
THERAPIST: Right, okay.
CLIENT: But like you know, Mary, we're going to have to stick it to your fucking forehead, so you don't lose it. I mean you know? She carries this big, humungous purse that a full grown horse could put around its neck and eat its hay from, that's how big the purse is, you know? I said, get something like this, you know it's there, carry your money in your jeans, you know, and not in your purse. That's a big bag that you can put your beer cans in and your nips, so that when you go home to Emma's house and Emma's still awake, she doesn't know you have them in there.
THERAPIST: She's thought of it all. [0:13:51.2]
CLIENT: Oh, yeah. Oh, I tell ya, you know?
THERAPIST: These are the folks that you're trying to lean on, huh, in hard times?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Boy, not a lot of help there is there?
CLIENT: No. But of course as Jackie says, I'm only to worry about Mary and Deborah.
THERAPIST: Stay out of Devon...
CLIENT: Jackie's life, yeah. Devon came by my house Friday night, finally.
THERAPIST: Finally, yeah.
CLIENT: Because I wanted my CPAP machine back. I told him the doctor said I needed it again. So of course -
THERAPIST: How did he have it?
CLIENT: Oh, because he had asked to borrow it if I wasn't using it, because he has sleep apnea. I says, "Well what about your insurance plan, it must be covered, Devon, you've got good insurance." You know? I didn't think of that. I says, "Yeah, okay, fine." So for two months, I've been asking for it back. Oh, I'll be by with it Saturday and I'll have James with me. I'll be by Friday night, you know, and then I'd message him and he'll write back, "Oh, we're at a birthday party." Every fucking weekend they're at a birthday party. So I says, "Yeah, okay, fine." But yeah, he finally brought it back over Friday night, stayed for like a half hour. [0:15:21.4]
THERAPIST: Was James with him?
CLIENT: No, no, he had come from work. He had pictures on his camera, of James. James has learned sign language at preschool, so I says yeah, he's probably going like this and then going like that, "Hi mommy." You know? I said, I can picture my James.
THERAPIST: Timeout and then the finger sign, huh?
CLIENT: (laughs)
THERAPIST: The first two.
CLIENT: Ah-huh. Oh yeah, he says, "I'm learning French now, bon appetit." (laughs) I says oh, he's so cute. So then Devon told me, I mentioned how I thought his daughter, had made a beautiful bride. She got married. Yes. Okay, I said how she made a beautiful army bride and everything and Devon goes, yeah.
THERAPIST: She married a Navy man?
CLIENT: I think he's a Marine. He could be Navy, I'm not sure. Ginger never went.
THERAPIST: Ginger didn't go, huh?
CLIENT: After Devon bought her a plane ticket, Devon had gotten them a nice hotel room, she decided she didn't want to go at the last moment, so that was the end of that. Devon went but no Ginger.
THERAPIST: Sorry, it's Ginger's daughter?
CLIENT: No, Devon's daughter.
THERAPIST: It's Devon's daughter, okay. Yeah, from Devon's first...
CLIENT: Yeah, right. So of course all of Devon's family was there. He comes from a family of like ten kids, so you know, everybody was there. They might have hated Ginger before, but now they really hate Ginger. So this week here, Devon is going to somewhere else, because his son is being deployed. He's got a meeting down in someplace on like a Tuesday, and then he's going to drive down to where his son is that's being deployed, because he gets deployed on Saturday, so they could spend... Ginger said to Devon, "I think I'd like to go down and see him before he deploys." Devon said, "No that's all right, he's going to be fine, don't worry." He said, I'm not booking it for her to come down and then she never shows, you know? He says, "I've had it with her." I says, tell me, are you sleeping in the big bed yet? He says, no. I said, down the cellar? [0:18:33.1]
THERAPIST: Did he have anything to say about you and Ginger and Jackie and the kids and that whole situation?
CLIENT: He says that James asks for me all the time and that when he went to church, he was looking for me singing and wanted to know where was Louise. I said oh, did Jackie tell him that you know, she didn't want me interrupting in her life or you know, her children's life? He says, "Oh, is that what this is all about?" I said oh yeah, Jackie called me and told me to stay the fuck out of her life and all her children's life, I says, "So that's what it's all about." He said oh, he says, "Well, we're going to have to see how we can finagle the bagel there." I said oh yeah, I says, "You're so fucking pussy-whipped it's unreal."
THERAPIST: You don't think he'll do anything.
CLIENT: No. I said, I can see you, I said here you are, sleeping down the cellar, and then Ginger, well she's my cousin also, but she's okay. Jackie's brother, Dave, sold his house, a beautiful house, heated driveway and everything. [0:20:07.1]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, yeah.
CLIENT: To be with his girlfriend that he's had for like 20 years. And his wife, Kelly, she's moving too.
THERAPIST: Dave is still married?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And Kelly is moving too. She got a four bedroom condo, brand new, you know, for dirt pay, you know? Gina, who was supposedly still living in the house with them, well she's living at Ginger's house. She's sleeping in Michael's room because Michael is back south, at college. Devon said to Ginger, "Well when is she leaving? I don't remember inviting her here." And Ginger says, "well she's my cousin, I invited her." He says, "Oh, so it's a different story if I want to invite my cousin down, they can stay here too?" I see it flying now. [0:21:21.8]
THERAPIST: Yeah, I see it now.
CLIENT: So Ginger just didn't say anything and I says well Devon, you know, "You don't speak up." He says, "I do and then she threatens to call the cops on me again." I says, "Hey what can I tell you?"
THERAPIST: Well yeah, I mean and that seems to be part of the situation here in the family, is this sense that like anybody speaks up, what happens is it raises more conflict, more hate and anger within people.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah.
THERAPIST: And there's more it's almost like, it's kind of like you were saying with not going back to church because of Jackie. It's almost like well God, I don't know what I'd say to her and I don't know what she'd say to me, and it would be a scene, and it wouldn't be something that would end well. When people are angered and upset with each other, things get worse when they bring it up, not better. [0:22:23.4]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Things get explosive.
CLIENT: I mean, I know I wouldn't say anything to Jackie. The first thing I'd do is punch her.
THERAPIST: You'd want to punch her.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I wouldn't say I want to punch her, I want to beat the fuck out of her.
THERAPIST: You want to beat the fuck out of her.
CLIENT: Yeah. I'm not one that won't I don't walk away from anything, and that's the way I... Either I shut my mouth or I let my temper go. [0:22:54.5]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And if I let my temper go, yeah.
THERAPIST: I think that's exactly right. There's like kind of one of two paths. It's like you say I'm either going to shut that off in myself and not go into that part of my temper, where that can lead to, and I have this feeling like you're sort of saying, like if I let my temper go, I don't want to stop it, I want to let it just go.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Let like all the feelings out, or something like that.
CLIENT: I mean, I can remember back in the sixth grade, my best friend aggravated me. I took her head and smashed it up against a wall, she got a concussion. And that was back in the sixth grade and I've done it other times too.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. Really fighting, physical fights, yeah.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah, you know? I don't care if I take a beer bottle and smash it, I'll go after you. [0:23:58.1]
THERAPIST: A what?
CLIENT: A beer bottle.
THERAPIST: A beer bottle, okay.
CLIENT: I was in a well, I got into a brawl at a bar one time and the girl was aggravating my friend, and the girl had a knife in her boot, she went after her. I took the beer bottle, went after the girl, she wound up going to the hospital. Nothing happened to me. The police didn't even bother when they saw it was me.
THERAPIST: Ah-huh.
CLIENT: So, I mean it's like you know, I know what I'm capable of.
THERAPIST: Ah-huh.
CLIENT: And you know, I've even beat the shit out of guys.
THERAPIST: Yeah, huh?
CLIENT: Yeah, you know, so.
THERAPIST: What does happen? What do you notice about that?
CLIENT: I just let it it just gets to the point, I mean I can put up with aggravation so long and then all of a sudden it's like at the boiling point. [0:25:01.8]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I mean, my kids will tell you to this day, this guy I was dating, I pushed him out of my car and ran over his legs. My kids can "remember the time you took him and pushed him out of the car and ran over his legs, ma?" I says well yeah, he aggravated your mother, I'm done with him. He was drunk and I threw him out of my fucking car. It wasn't my fault he didn't move his legs.
THERAPIST: And so you hit this point, where you hit the boiling point, and then...
CLIENT: There's no stopping.
THERAPIST: The stop, yeah the brakes are off, so to speak.
CLIENT: Mm-hmm, yeah.
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: And I haven't let that happen in a long, long time, a real long time.
THERAPIST: I guess you sort of feel that it's still a potential within you, is that what you're...?
CLIENT: Yeah. That's what I'm afraid of, that if I do start, I won't stop. If I hit Jackie, I don't think one hit will satisfy me. I would have to keep going. [0:26:09.4]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know? I can see it now, woman beats cousin in church.
THERAPIST: Well it's interesting right, because you'll say sometimes, leaving here I don't know if you're I mean, I'm sure you know this, that you'll say things like, "maybe you'll see me in the papers."
CLIENT: You don't know.
THERAPIST: You don't know, maybe you'll -
CLIENT: You might see me on the news.
THERAPIST: I might see you next week, I might now, I don't know if I can, you know, I don't know if I'll hit that boiling point and let it all go.
CLIENT: I mean, I try hard to listen. Either your room is crooked or this thing is.
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think it's probably crooked.
CLIENT: That's all right.
THERAPIST: Yeah, why, what did you do want to turn that on or something?
CLIENT: No, it's just bothering me.
THERAPIST: It's just bothering you, there you go.
CLIENT: Hi, I'm here!! Ah-huh, yes.
THERAPIST: Are they on the roof?
CLIENT: No, I don't know where the hell.
THERAPIST: Oh, you can see them in the -
CLIENT: I was waving to that apartment across the way, you know? [0:27:13.2]
THERAPIST: Oh, okay.
CLIENT: Okay. It's me, yes they're committing me, don't worry. Ah-huh.
THERAPIST: They're committing you, huh?
CLIENT: Ah-huh. Or as I call up good old Genevieve and I said because I don't see her until tomorrow. I says, you've got to increase my Buspar, something's got to be done. I sound like a fucking raving maniac.
THERAPIST: What did you notice?
CLIENT: I just saw a little I have so much rage.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.
CLIENT: You know? Especially when I see that fucking ass-hole up the street. (whispers) Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And I still don't trust my Deborah to think that she wouldn't call him and go smoke somewhere with him, you know?
THERAPIST: No matter how much it hurts you.
CLIENT: I just, I don't trust her. It's an awful thing to say but I don't trust her. [0:28:16.0]
THERAPIST: Hey, pot is going to beat you every time, pot is going to beat you every time.
CLIENT: Because I can see her, picturing her calling Mark and saying, Do you have any roaches? I'll meet you up the street. You know?
THERAPIST: Yes, yes, yeah.
CLIENT: I can see it.
THERAPIST: Yeah, and talk about enraging, huh?
CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Because the phone rings, her cell phone will ring, and she'll go out and talk. I says, "Oh, what was that, Mark?" So you can't I couldn't hear what you, (sarcastic) "No, it wasn't Mark." I just don't, I don't know, I don't trust her.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.
CLIENT: You know? She would definitely -
THERAPIST: Well she did it before.
CLIENT: Yeah. She would definitely meet him up the corner and go smoke with him, you know?
THERAPIST: What, does she like to have like a smoke buddy, is that the appeal of it?
CLIENT: I don't know, you know? She just you know, if she doesn't have pot and I haven't bought it for in I don't know how long. [0:29:25.0]
THERAPIST: Oh, and so he might have some.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I get it, okay.
CLIENT: So what's why she calls him.
THERAPIST: And he'll call her to see if she's got some?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: You know, so what the hell.
THERAPIST: There's so much rage inside, yes.
CLIENT: But then it's I won't go out of my house now. I sit in my house all day long. Won't go out front and sit, you know, don't even go out in the back and sit. I just stay in the fucking house. I don't want to fucking see people, I don't want to talk to people. I just can't. So, it's also like 24 hours a day, I'm in my bedroom.
THERAPIST: Oh, boy.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: It don't phase me.
THERAPIST: Well, I mean is it in part a response, a reaction to how much rage you feel? [0:30:32.8]
CLIENT: Rage and then I just don't want to you know, it's just that I don't want to be bothered by other people. And of course Deborah is no one to talk to, so.
THERAPIST: What was it like when I called you?
CLIENT: Oh, that time that I didn't talk to you?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I just couldn't talk, it was just so I don't want to bring up the things that he hits at, Mark.
THERAPIST: Yes, yes.
CLIENT: Yeah. Because it would only hurt more.
THERAPIST: It was just everything you did, to kind of keep that feeling away.
CLIENT: Away, yeah. And it's only been two fucking weeks this Wednesday, oh yeah.
THERAPIST: Only two weeks since Wednesday, yeah. It feels pretty raw, I imagine. [0:31:33.3]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know? So, it sucks.
THERAPIST: A lot of hurt, I think there's a lot of hurt.
CLIENT: Oh shit, yeah, you know, a real lot but hey, shit happens.
THERAPIST: I mean, I think in a way, whether it's already did it in a major league way. (phone ringing)
CLIENT: Oh, who's that? Do you want me to read what it says? It's from Deborah. "Hi. Donald, kisses." She's sending me kisses. Okay.
THERAPIST: That's all she wrote?
CLIENT: Yeah. Ah-huh. [0:32:38.9]
THERAPIST: What is that about?
CLIENT: I don't know, because she thinks you're hot, that's what that is.
THERAPIST: Oh, is that right, Deborah thinks I'm hot huh?
CLIENT: Yeah, that's what that's about.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Ah-huh. I should write back, no give Mark kisses. (laughs) Donald is -
THERAPIST: Donald, kisses.
CLIENT: Yes. She's sending you kisses.
THERAPIST: How about that?
CLIENT: Ah-huh, okay. It's me, see I'm crazy, you know?
THERAPIST: What, what's crazy?
CLIENT: Well you know, I get these messages. Fucking kid, ah-huh, oh yeah. Ohhhh, yes.
THERAPIST: Well, I guess I got the message.
CLIENT: Okay, all right, so I had Genevieve increase my Buspar to 20 milligrams three times a day. Hopefully that will help me.
THERAPIST: Try to get some relief from all this. [0:33:38.3]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And I was thinking that yeah, like in some way whether it was me calling you, I guess to a lesser degree now, you're not you're definitely in a different place than you were when I called, but it's kind of like going out of your place is also bringing up feelings I guess.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: People talking to you, being out, and talking about it.
CLIENT: You know, them saying to me, oh, I saw Mark up at the store playing his numbers or buying scratch tickets. Oh, I saw Mark here and you know, there and you know. I don't want to hear it, you know?
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. I was thinking, just like you were talking about with me calling you, not wanting to go back into that, and like you were talking about with the rage, maybe an unending sense of pain and getting really hurt and not knowing if it's going to stop. [0:34:41.2]
CLIENT: Oh yeah, right, you know.
THERAPIST: As you say, it's been two weeks, it's only been two weeks. That's not long at all.
CLIENT: No, no, you know? I can't say I don't have feelings for him because I do. I can't say there are times when there are times when I want to call him on the phone but I won't.
THERAPIST: What do you feel like when you do want to call him?
CLIENT: Mmm... I don't know.
THERAPIST: What do you want to say to him?
CLIENT: You know, it's not that I want to apologize to him, because I have nothing to apologize to him about. And you know, I know I'll never get an apology from him, so you know? Oh no, I'll get the if and when he does decide to come back, I'll get you know, I'm sorry, I missed you, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. You know, the whole fricken shit all over again but I don't know. I don't know if I can let it go this time, I really don't know. [0:35:57.0]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I want to be able to say no, I don't know if I'm you know, strong enough too.
THERAPIST: Strong enough, huh?
CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, the days are so fucking boring without Mark here, I mean he always at least would bring a laugh with him. But I don't know, you know? His bottle of vodka is still in the refrigerator, his beer is still in the carton. It sucks. If you sit outside on the benches, all you can do is look right straight up at his house, and you can see him walking down the street with the dog, and the moment he gets to where my street begins, he walks the other way. Why not just go you're closer to go this way, by his house. You only have to go one house up and there's the main street. Why walk all the ways down and then across and then up all the ways again? [0:37:18.2]
THERAPIST: Wait, so he's doing what?
CLIENT: He's closer to the store, for him to go and get alcohol and scratch tickets.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But if he goes down heading towards my house, he's farther away from the store.
THERAPIST: Ah-huh?
CLIENT: But yet he does it all the fucking time, so that you see him walking and taking the turn.
THERAPIST: As if it's intentional.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: What do you think he's communicating, I mean maybe unconsciously, but what is it? What do you feel like he's saying by doing that?
CLIENT: Look at me, you know? I, I, you know.
THERAPIST: Look at me.
CLIENT: Yeah. You know, so it's like I was you know. So what he did the other day, when I was sitting outside waiting for The Ride, he stood at the end and he picked up his phone and dialed it and was talking to someone, and I'm saying to myself oh, is that a hint like you know, maybe I should pick up my phone and fucking call him? You know, I don't know. [0:38:29.7]
THERAPIST: Right, I see.
CLIENT: And no matter what, one way or another I'm bound to bump into him, you know, so. Saturday, my girlfriend Rebecca took me out shopping and to pay some bills, and of course don't we bump into him and well, him and Deborah were getting in the car together while Keisha was out walking the dog. (inaudible), you know?
THERAPIST: Oh, when you passed by his place?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah, it's inevitable, you're going to bump into him.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean it's got that feeling of like he's not going to really go away.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: He's not really going to go away, he's going to come back. And as you say, there's like you kind of open yourself up to both things in some, I don't know, some differing degrees, but one thing being kind of the pain that he can put you through, and on the other hand the companionship, the intimacy that you do have with him, the pleasure that you have with him. [0:39:45.6]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And as you say, it's not it's something that you really, really want too, you know?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: It's mixed with a lot of pain.
CLIENT: Mm-hmm.
THERAPIST: And a lot of giving of yourself, giving up of yourself in some ways, but to get something really important for yourself.
CLIENT: Yeah, right. Mary says, "Oh, well we've got to go out and go to the bars, that's the only way..." I says, "Mary, I don't want to go into a bar. I don't drink." I says, "And then pick up some other alcoholic." I said, "No Mary, I don't want that." You know? What the hell do you want me to go to a fucking bar for?
THERAPIST: Yeah. You probably don't want more trouble.
CLIENT: Yeah, you know? I said, what am I going to do, sit up at the bar, have a glass of water and twiddle my thumbs, while some slosh next to me is you know, so drunk that he don't know what the hell he's doing? [0:40:59.2]
THERAPIST: Mm, yeah.
CLIENT: I don't need that, Mary. But hey, what the hell? When Devon was there Friday, I said to him, now this will be the first year I will not be there for James's birthday. You know, I always have a theme for him and everything.
THERAPIST: When is it?
CLIENT: It's this month, I forget what day. I think it's the 22nd. So Devon goes, "Oh, well maybe I can bring him by." I said, "What's the theme this year?" He says, "Oh, he's into everything Army." I says, oh, okay.
THERAPIST: But it's almost as if it's presumed that there's no way to work this stuff out with Ginger and... Wow, wow. [0:42:09.8]
CLIENT: I don't think I want to work that out.
THERAPIST: You don't think you want to work it out, yeah.
CLIENT: I have no use for Ginger being a mother. She's a poor choice. She'll never get the motherhood or what from me, believe me. You know? She needs one of those T-shirts that says, whistle blower, that was banned.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. That was whistle blowing. That's what Ginger needs, because all she does is call the cops, you know? Hey. You know, like next week, she probably won't talk to her mother, or in a couple of weeks, she won't talk to the father, you know? It's like okay, fine. I said, "Mary, did you know your cousin Dave moved?" No, when did he go there? I said last week, he finally moved in with the girlfriend. Oh, where's Kelly, up in Stoneham? I said oh no, she's down in Kentucky. I said I don't know what the hell she she doesn't know a soul in Kentucky, does not know a soul. [0:43:45.5]
THERAPIST: Is that right?
CLIENT: But according to Devon, that's becoming the place to move to, Kentucky, because everything is cheap, real cheap out there and it's you know, with all the country and western things. Oh yeah.
THERAPIST: They're into that stuff?
CLIENT: Yeah, I guess Kelly is. I says oh, the little old Italian girl, huh? She got the money from him.
THERAPIST: She got the money from Dave?
CLIENT: Dave. Oh yeah, as long as she didn't bring up the girlfriend.
THERAPIST: So then Dave is going down to be with his girlfriend in Florida.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And they're going their own ways.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: And I think Kelly got most of the money out of that deal.
THERAPIST: Did they divorce or no?
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: They're just it's some arrangement.
CLIENT: Oh yeah.
THERAPIST: Really?
CLIENT: She's not going to let go of that money. (chuckles) Oh yeah, she's too smart for that.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Their son is a lawyer, they have a son that's a lawyer. So okay, we know who's going to make sure his mother gets the money. Mm-hmm. What the hell. [0:44:56.4]
THERAPIST: What does Mary think about -
CLIENT: Our time is up.
THERAPIST: What does Mary think about all this Ginger business, by the way?
CLIENT: Well, Ginger was always her favorite.
THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?
CLIENT: Yeah, of Jackie's kids, and the oldest one, Mimm, was always my favorite. I says, (sounds angry) "Well let me tell you what your little bitch did."
THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.
CLIENT: Do I have to go home? Yeah, The Ride is picking me up.
THERAPIST: We were just getting started, right?
CLIENT: Yeah, I was just getting to the good part. Did I tell you I was pregnant? Oh, all right.
THERAPIST: That's how you're going to leave?
CLIENT: Yeah. (laughs) Is this on tape? All right. [0:45:48.7]
THERAPIST: Right, right.
CLIENT: I'll see you Monday.
THERAPIST: I guess so, yeah.
CLIENT: Aren't you lucky?
END TRANSCRIPT
