TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Looks good, huh?

THERAPIST: Oh, wow.

CLIENT: It looks a lot better than, as I said, that it has been. I took a shower this morning and the whole hand got soaking wet, even though I had it wrapped up in two baggies. So I had to have the whole complete bandage taken off and another one put on. This is how I look, it's fine. (laughs) And I think it is fine.

THERAPIST: When did you get the surgery?

CLIENT: Last Wednesday, it will be a week tomorrow, and then I get the stitches out the following week, next week, on Tuesday.

THERAPIST: How long of a recovery is it? [0:01:02.2]

CLIENT: They said six weeks but I don't know, I mean I've been using the hand fine, but the stitches are actually in the palm of your hand, so whatever it takes for me to...

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I just hope it's soon because I really can't pick up a fork with my left hand.

THERAPIST: Oh, because it's just -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's got the same problem, right?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. So I've been up shit's creek lately. I eat a lot of oatmeal.

THERAPIST: Because you can use a spoon better?

CLIENT: I can actually suck it down.

THERAPIST: Oh, suck it, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Or Cream of Wheat, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, that's been working, soups. Anything that I can use a straw.

THERAPIST: Or a straw, right.

CLIENT: Ah-huh. So you know, maybe I'll lose a few pounds, hopefully. [0:02:08.1]

THERAPIST: The hard way.

CLIENT: Yeah. But um... yeah. Other than that, everything else is still whacked out as usual. Mark's been back in the picture.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: For I don't know, the last time I had a session with you, he was over that afternoon.

THERAPIST: He was?

CLIENT: Yeah. Doesn't remember what he said, so of course I kind of just you know, I said, "Well, let's just say we'll never be back in the bedroom again." Are you sure? Absolutely positive. Well what did I I just came out and said you know, you told me you didn't find me attractive, there was no passion there or anything. I said so you know, that's the end of that. But he still keeps on trying to get in there, in that bedroom, and I just keep, "nope." No, no, no. [0:03:26.2]

THERAPIST: Well, you're telling him that he had an impact on you, that you're not going to deny or forget about it.

CLIENT: I said no, I said because if I went into the bedroom with you, I says, "I don't think I could respect myself." You know? And he still just can't as of yesterday afternoon, he was still trying but he still wasn't getting nowhere. I don't see him once a day, he's there four and five times a day.

THERAPIST: Mark doesn't do anything halfway does he?

CLIENT: No. He'll come over. He gets out of work at 11:00, gets home, showers, at 11:30 he's at the door. He'll stay for about a half hour, leave, because he's got to go check on Keisha. Then he comes back with the dog. After about an hour at the house he'll leave again and he'll be back again. Some days he's there six times in the course of a day. [0:04:41.0]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don't know why he just doesn't make a God-damned day of it, I said but you know, he's got to go home, he's got to walk the dog, he's got to check on Keisha because she's not been going to school. Then he's got to take Keisha one day for her appointments, but he's either there before he takes her and then he's there after he takes her. He just drops her off and heads right back, so you know. Some days he doesn't show up, you know, but he's right there the next day. If he doesn't show up on a Friday, he'll be there Saturday and Sunday. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Wow. What have you felt? What has it meant, for him to be back? What have you felt? [0:05:44.0]

CLIENT: I mean I can't deny that I don't care for him because I do, but ah, I don't know, I just, I would love to go the same route that he wants to go, back into the bedroom, but I no, no, no. It's going to take a long time. You know? Oh, but you know I love you... I said, "No, I don't know that any more." I said so you know, it's not working. He'll make out with me, try to change my mind. I said, "No, still not going there." The day of the surgery he was there the moment I got home, he was there, to make sure I keep my hand up, make sure I've got it on the icepacks and oh, he's been real you know, he's been a real pain in my ass over this hand. [0:06:54.4]

THERAPIST: Taking care of you.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know, how's the hand? It's fine. No, tell me truthfully, how's the hand? I can tell you're in pain, how is it doing? I says, I'm doing fine, you know, so, yeah.

THERAPIST: What is it like for him to take care you know, to ask you that? You sound like you kind of bristle at it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What is it? What are you not...?

CLIENT: It aggravates me that he keeps asking me about it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know? I don't know if he's pretending to care or if he really does care.

THERAPIST: Kind of like how you're feeling about going to the bedroom.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What does he really feel?

CLIENT: Yeah, you know, so.

THERAPIST: Like it might feel better then, if you knew for sure that he felt...?

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:07:54.1]

CLIENT: You know? Lately, he doesn't call or he'll call and he'll say, "Who am I speaking to?" And I'll say, "It's Louise." Oh, well is Deborah home? I said, "Why don't you call her on her phone?" Because he wants to come over and smoke with her. I said, "Just call her on her phone."

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So if I'm not home and Deborah is home, he'll still come over and you know, have his smoke and his beer and his shot, you know. [0:08:33.4]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: So I really don't know any more, who he's coming to see.

THERAPIST: Yes, yeah.

CLIENT: You know? So, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, so if you kind of get the sense that if you know he's coming over for just the pot or just the booze, it kind of undermines your sense of what is he giving me here? What's he does he really mean this stuff about my hand?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Does he really feel this way towards me in the bedroom? As you've said, as you've pointed out in the past, he's even said you know, I just maybe he hasn't said it but you just wondered if it's just about you being a kind of convenience store for him or something.

CLIENT: Right, oh yeah, you know, so.

THERAPIST: Even though I think you like on some level there's that feeling that he's really working hard.

CLIENT: Um... [0:09:35.9]

THERAPIST: Yeah, you just don't know what to trust then huh?

CLIENT: Yeah, no, no. I don't trust him as far as I can throw him, not at all. Like Sunday he came over and I think he brought pot with him, because Deborah said she didn't have any. So they smoked that and then he went home and he said he might be back. So he called and said he was and I said well, I'm going to the movies with my girlfriend Rebecca, and he said okay, fine. Well, I left with Rebecca, he called Deborah's phone and he came over and smoked with Deborah, knowing that I was at the movies. I mean, I know he'll be there today while I'm here. Hey, fine. And Deborah has pot but she's not going to admit it to him. She's been making him go and buy it himself, with his money. I says yeah, his money, that's my money. [0:11:05.7]

THERAPIST: Oh, is that how he gets it?

CLIENT: Yeah. I says, because he borrowed forty dollars from me, I says, "So Deborah, where do you think he's buying the pot?" So yesterday, he was supposed to give me forty dollars back, I got twenty out of the forty, which wasn't bad. Generally, I'm lucky if I get five out of the forty, you know? So I just don't give a shit, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well it really confronts you with the question of you start to wonder, with all the giving that you do for him, and kind of the really going out of your way for him, you kind of wonder is it that? Is that why he wants to be with me or is it because he really loves me and he wants to be with me? What if it's somehow both that he feels, I mean it's very confusing for you.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, oh yeah. We'll go outside, out the front, and he'll have to sit down and there will be say Deborah, myself, Mark, and this girl and then when the couple that live on the first floor, they can see us sitting on the benches, they'll come out and stand there and talk. But Mark gets so he's so loud, and sometimes he's so obnoxious, I get up and leave, I go in the house and Deborah will call me on the phone, "Don't leave him out here with us." I says hey, what can I tell you Deborah, he doesn't want to be in the house, he wants to be outside. So I just leave him out there and he'll sit out there for an hour, aggravating the hell out of everybody else but me. (laughs) You know, if you're not smart enough to get up and leave, then sit there and stay there and let him aggravates you. I says eventually he'll get the hint, you know, I said but I'm just not going to sit out there and get aggravated and tell him to lower his voice and to stop with the dirty language, the swearing, you know. Gimme a kiss! You know? So I said nope, have fun. [0:13:35.3]

THERAPIST: You just walk away, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. This is something new with him, you know with the sitting outside with everybody, because he doesn't want anybody knowing he's there. I said, how could you not want and here you are sitting here for an hour.

THERAPIST: Announcing to the world that he's there.

CLIENT: Yeah, ah-huh. And I'll say to Deborah, I says you know, yesterday he's in the house and he says, "I really got to tell you something," and I'll say, "Yeah, go ahead." He says remember when, he says, that Erin upstairs, the one that he's been friends with for several or many years, blocked my phone number? I says yeah? He says well, she still has it blocked, he says, "And I really don't care that she has it blocked, but when you blocked my number..." I go yeah? "You don't know how bad that made me feel." He says you know, "I've got feelings and that really hurt me that you did that." And I'm like oh yeah, ah-huh. So I mean, he's just trying he believes the line of bullshit so much that he believes it himself. And I'll just say no, Mark, it just doesn't work. I says, "I'm over the fact that you and Erin were next door drinking." I says, "It's something else altogether different." And he'll say to me well you know, "I think I really need the Viagra." I says oh my God, I says, "You're going to give me a heart attack. You're finally admitting to the fact that I've known all along." I says, "But hey, what can I tell you Art, I'm not going that route with you Mark, so forget the room." You know? [0:15:52.4]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: In fact, I even shut the bedroom door before he gets there. I've got to put a sign on it, off limits.

THERAPIST: Do not enter. No Mark zone.

CLIENT: (laughs) That's a good idea. As soon as I can use this hand I'll do that. Oh, I tell you, unbelievable, huh?

THERAPIST: Not letting him back in.

CLIENT: Yeah, nope, not yet. It will be a while.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Maybe another couple of months, you know, so. I don't know, I think my feelings are I mean, I still love him but I don't know, he's just killed a lot of feelings.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, he did damage to them. He did damage to them.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean it's like a broken hand, you know surgically, it takes a while to recover and it's never going to quite be the same. [0:16:56.0]

CLIENT: No, no, I don't think I could feel the same in the bedroom with him.

THERAPIST: Did he apologize?

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: He did?

CLIENT: Oh yeah, he does every day.

THERAPIST: What does he say?

CLIENT: I'm sorry. I said it doesn't work. I really, I apologize for things that I say, he says, "But you should know that when I'm drunk, I say things that I shouldn't say." I said, "Mark, you say things that you shouldn't say when you're sober, so I don't want to hear the liquor as the excuse." You don't know how much you mean to me, you know, the routine. I love you, you're my friend, I don't have anywhere else that I can go and sit and talk to people and tell people things that are bothering me. I said ah-huh, I says, "Well fine, you want to be friends like that fine, we'll be friends with no benefits." You know? What do mean with no benefits? I says you know, no making out, no going in the bedroom, no me doing this and that for you, all those things Mark. Well I don't want that. I says well, that's what you're going to have to get. He's been good with he hasn't asked me for any money until last week, was the first time he had asked for money. He came up with well, twenty out of forty, so I can't complain there, but then he'll probably get sixty this week, you know? You're not getting any money this week. I can buy him a big bottle of vodka, and I said maybe the largest bottle that they have going, and he likes Smirnoff and he likes the different flavored ones. So I mean, I spent thirty-five dollars for a bottle. I'm lucky if that will last him two weeks, lucky. When he says he wants a shot, he fills up a cup like you have there. Yeah. That's maybe what, twelve ounces, sixteen ounces? [0:19:47.6]

THERAPIST: Probably twelve.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: That's not a shot.

CLIENT: That's a shot to him.

THERAPIST: To him.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know? And then the beer, and he'll oh. I don't know how he can drink it like that, just straight.

THERAPIST: Just straight, a straight shot.

CLIENT: Yeah, ah-huh.

THERAPIST: He's a hardcore drinker, he's a hardcore alcoholic.

CLIENT: Yeah. The other night he had left a glass half full and Deborah thought it was my tonic. I said no, she says it smells like your tonic. I says well you know, that's because he likes the fruit flavors. I says, I think that one was watermelon or something.

THERAPIST: The vodka.

CLIENT: Yeah. So she put it up to her mouth and took a sip and she goes oh my God, yeah, yeah, and I mean that burns your throat. I've even tried it. Vodka, if you want to put it in orange juice, fine, or tomato juice, fine, but straight, no. No, no, no, no. That's wow, I don't know, and he does it with no flinch, just right down. So to one beer, I will say he may have two things of vodka to one can of beer. [0:21:19.8]

THERAPIST: He'll drink a couple of these and then one beer.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That's a lot of booze.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: That's probably what, eight to ten shots in this thing, if not -

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. He'd think nothing of drinking the whole bottle in one day, oh yeah. He's really got problems.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: So like yesterday he was there and he came back and he said, "I really got to talk to you." I said, "Yeah, go ahead, and he says, "no, I can't tell you." I said oh, you're having problems with Keisha. I says, "You don't even have to tell me Mark, I know it, I've told you, but you don't want to listen to me." I said, "So don't even tell me because then you know, I give you my opinion and then you get more upset, you don't act on it." I said, "I told you to begin with, the dog that was supposed to be Keisha's dog, and she was going to get out and get exercise..." I says, "What happened to that, who walks the dog?" He's the only one that walks the dog and he takes the dog out for an hour, two hours, goes to the park, plays Frisbee with him, while Keisha's home, playing on the computer or taking a nap, because that's all Keisha does. She might go to school one day out of the week if they're lucky. I guess she's having problems again but he doesn't want to tell me about it. She went to school one day and she came home with her girlfriends, so he thought everything had changed and Keisha wanted to stay being a girl. She didn't want to have the sex, the transgender thing. I said, "Mark forget it, it's not going to go away, it's not going to go away. This has been in her mind since what, Mark, twelve, eleven?" I says when she was starting to get her breasts and having her period, I says since then, you know? I said, "So what do you do?" Brings a lot of you know, arguments between him and Deborah. [0:24:23.0]

THERAPIST: Where do you stand in all this, you know with her, with him and his dealings with her? What are you?

CLIENT: Well, he tells me these things that you know, he's going through with Keisha, and I mean he's asking for my advice but yet he's not taking my advice.

THERAPIST: I see, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Like with the dog, how he always has the dog with him. He says you know, this is the only place he goes to and he says, "They don't take him anywhere, this is the only other house he's ever been in." Because now we let him in the house, the dog. I just shut the room so the cats don't -

THERAPIST: Oh, you let the dog into your place?

CLIENT: Yeah, in the place, you know?

THERAPIST: Everybody's welcome right, at Louise's house.

CLIENT: Oh please, you should see my Facebook picture. We take care of an dog, and Julie's picture is on my Facebook page. So, we baby-sit her. Well, I should say Deborah does most of it now. [0:25:38.1]

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. We get Julie overnight, she's an overnight guest.

THERAPIST: Julie is Mark's dog?

CLIENT: No, this is another a friend of mine's dog. So sometimes we'll have both Julie and Jack in the house.

THERAPIST: Well I'm glad you finally expanded from stray humans to stray dogs, it's about time.

CLIENT: Yes. So we're now running a doggy daycare, and God only knows what else will be popping up next. So I know something's bothering Keisha, you know? He wants to tell me about it, he will eventually, because it will get to be too much for him, to keep it bottled up in his mind. He's finally, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah. He'll find himself faced with the fact that he really needs your help.

CLIENT: Well, like he'll say, "Oh yeah, she don't walk the dog," and he'll say to me, "don't even open up your mouth because I know what you're going to say." Which is, I told you you'd be walking it, you'd be taking care of it, because you know Mark, Keisha's not going to do it. They walk into the they live right next to a school, so they walk into the schoolyard after school's closed and they just let the dog go to the bathroom and you know, and then they bring the dog in. That's not a walk. I mean this dog is like 11 months old, he's still a puppy, and he wants to go. Mark says, what's going to ever happen if Deborah or Keisha are walking the dog and the dog spots you? He'll come to my apartment house and as soon as he hits the driveway of the house, he books it right to my end of the building, because he knows he's coming over to see Deborah and me. He goes crazy when he sees us. I says well let's just face it, Deborah and Keisha would get dragged across the street and they'll say, "How do you know Jack?" [0:27:58.8]

THERAPIST: You know, I guess Louise, I'm thinking about how you how complicated it is for you to deal with a guy that is so Jekyll and Hyde.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: What I was thinking about is that in some ways he never wants you to you know, it would be the last thing for him to say, I never wanted Deborah to know about you and yet what does he do? He practically parades you all around town at the same time. He tells you he's not attracted to you and he tries to get you in bed with every with an unrelenting effort, with unrelenting effort. He tells you he doesn't want your help but then he'll break down and tell you how badly he needs it. He doesn't need your friendship and he wants your friendship.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I've got to tell you, I don't know how you deal with all those feelings, the back and forth, because it is a lot. Because it's not just like you know, you feel he elicits so many different feelings, contradicting feelings in you; good, bad, hurt, on top of the world. I can't imagine how the difference between going from the low of him telling you that he didn't feel attracted to you, to I want he's spending the last couple of weeks trying to get you in bed. [0:29:38.4]

CLIENT: Yeah. He's you know, unreal. Like the other day, I was coming back from the store and I had some bundles, and I was really having a tough time carrying them. He spotted me with Jack, he came and took the bundles and brought them back to the house for me, he carried them all. Plus he's got the dog that wants to you know, just jump all over the place, but he carried them back to the house.

THERAPIST: Worried about your hand, you know making sure you're okay. At other times he'll disappear and never you know, you'll like wow, how could he forget all this. It's such, you know such wide change of feelings that he has, that you have in response to him.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, you know? He's... I don't know. I can't figure him out.

THERAPIST: I think about that you know that game people play, with the flower with the petals, he loves me, he loves me not? [0:30:49.3]

CLIENT: He loves me not, yeah.

THERAPIST: He loves me. That's -

CLIENT: Oh yeah, that's Mark. We'll be sitting out front with everybody and he'll say, "Give me a kiss," so it's like everybody knows.

THERAPIST: Everybody knows.

CLIENT: He's kissing me, you know? They automatically think that every time he comes over we're having sex.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: You know and it's not like you know, Mark, you don't want people knowing, but here you are, making out with me in front of everybody in the building. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah, he's wanting to at one minute keep you hidden and secretive, and the other he wants to announce it off the roof, you know scream it from the rooftops.

CLIENT: And I wouldn't mind but most of well, I would say maybe ten out of a hundred know Mark's mother in-law, because they play bingo all at the same place, and they know that her daughter Keisha is married, Deborah is married to Mark. So you know, like they see him outside or coming in the door and they're like gee, that's Peggy's son in-law, you know? Does he think something's not going to pop up all of a sudden, you know, I don't know. And then there's this black lady, I don't know if she lives in the building or if she's a homemaker or what, but she's I don't know, I'd say she's in her sixties, and she looks like she drinks quite a bit. One day she's out in the parking lot and she says to Mark, "You got a cigarette?" He gave her a cigarette. "You got a match?" So she goes, "I'm Dolores," and he says, "Well, my name is Mark," and then he came over and sat with me on the bench. Well, every time Dolores sees Mark, she's asks for a cigarette. So last week she was looking for Mark, so she asked one of the girls, "Are you the one that sits with Mark all the time?" (phone ringing) So they said no, Mark who? She says oh, okay, Mark who. Hello.

THERAPIST: Who was that? [0:33:44.9]

CLIENT: Deborah. So I go to Mark, I said, "Hey, your girlfriend is looking for you lately." He goes who, and I says "Dolores, she's been asking where you are and who's the girl that you come and see all the time." I says should I just go out and tell her, hey, listen he's got a wife and he's got me, he doesn't need any more. (chuckles) I mean you know, the guy is so friendly it's pitiful, you know? He just has one of those personalities.

THERAPIST: He'll talk to anybody, huh?

CLIENT: Oh yeah, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So he'll be there, like yesterday in the house he's saying to Deborah, oh yeah you know, I've got all these chicks that want me down at the work, you know.

THERAPIST: The gym.

CLIENT: Workout World. He was like they want me and Deborah will say, "Mark, you think they are but they're not Mark. They don't want anything to do with you Mark, they would never put up with your shit, Mark." She says, "I guess the only two that put up with it is Deborah and my mother," you know, what's that to say Mark? The night before surgery, Mary came over at 7:00, lovely cousin Mary, because she's going to drive me in the morning, because I had to be there by 6:30. When she came in, she was already two sheets to the wind, she drinks now. [0:35:35.4]

THERAPIST: Gees.

CLIENT: The big bottles of beer and the nips. As I said, at 7:00, she's already intoxicated. She's standing and she's asleep.

THERAPIST: Oh, boy.

CLIENT: So I mean, Deborah and I just pissed our pants laughing because she's so she's so whacked out, and I mean whacked out. I'm sitting in my room because I'm watching TV in my room, so of course she's got to sit on the bed and you know, she's got to watch TV too. So, fine. I don't know what time we finally stopped laughing, maybe midnight. I had to give her ten dollars for gas, to drive me in the morning. So we get up, she's going to drive me. Well, she puts on the thing in the car that tells her how many miles she's driven. So she says to me, when we get to the hospital, "You know, that was nine miles I drove." That was another hint for more money, because she was going to come back and pick me up. So I says okay, just drop me off. Oh no, she's got to come in to registration with me, she's got to come upstairs to the third floor, where the surgical daycare is, and it's just like I don't even want people knowing she's with me, because this is how bad she is. So she's going to the nurse, "Well when will she be done, she's here now, at 7:00, when will she be done, 7:30? What's with this two hour wait?" The lady says, "She'll be done when she's done and we'll give you a call." The lady behind the the nurse was getting pissed. I said, okay, bye, Sue, see you later, the car is running outside. [0:37:44.0]

So when it came time for me to get picked up, the nurse says, "Do you want me to call Deborah?" And I said yeah. So I says and oh, tell Deborah to give Mary more money for gas, another ten dollars for gas. So the nurse says, "Who's Mary?" I says that's my cousin. She goes, "You have to pay her money?" I said yeah. I said "I had to give her ten to take me here, I says now it's another ten for her to come back and get me." The lady says, "I don't believe that, can I be your cousin?" She's awful. So she gets to the house, drops me off and leaves, which I don't mind because she aggravates the fuck out of me. So she came over Friday night to visit, I'm in bed, I have to keep the arm elevated and you know, I had the pillows all propped up, got my icepack on. She's got to sit on the bed and use the pillows that were there to put her head on, to watch TV. So by 10:00, I had had enough of listening to Mary. I had to say I was going to bed, because other than that she wouldn't have left. Deborah was already out like a light on the couch, but if I didn't say I was going to sleep, she would have been there longer, because she doesn't want to go back to her room that she rents. So, oh well, what I can tell you, Mary, you know? I mean here I am, dying in pain, and she's going to sit there on the bed and tell me about this person and this person, people I don't even know. I was like yeah, okay. [0:39:55.6]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. She just wants to have what she was taking.

CLIENT: Well, as I say, she doesn't want to go back to her apartment, so she wants to stay with someone until like 11:00 or 12:00 at night, and then she'll go back to her apartment.

THERAPIST: You should charge her.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: You should charge her rent.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know, I should charge you to sit here, Mary.

THERAPIST: And babysitting is ten dollars an hour.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know? And then you eat you know, all this, I've got to feed you while you're here. Oh yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: You've got a big heart.

CLIENT: (chuckles) I don't know, a big heart but no brain in it. As I say, who's there to take care of me?

THERAPIST: Who's got the big heart for you?

CLIENT: Yeah. I said to Deborah, the first night I came home, I said, "Do you think you could make me some supper?" She gave me a bowl with cereal in it, cold cereal, gave me the spoon, and she said to me, on her way out the door, "Don't choke on it." Do you think I could get a lot of that cereal up to my mouth? No. It spilled, the milk spilled, you know. I says oh this is lovely, so that's when I learned to pick up the bowl and you know? But it was kind of awkward with cold cereal, instead of the Cream of Wheat that just went down nice and smooth. Now this was chunks of flakes with nuts on it, you know, which I don't mind eating when I have two hands and I can eat with the spoon. [0:41:47.3]

THERAPIST: It's a little tricky.

CLIENT: This crap here, no. I says oh, she's so... she's so hopeful.

THERAPIST: And they just don't give it do they, they just don't have the heart.

CLIENT: And you know, I say "Deborah, can you wrap up the hand so I can go in the shower?" Well, not only is the hand all wrapped up, but I need the bars to hold onto. She goes out the door and leaves me in the house to take a shower. I'm afraid of falling.

THERAPIST: Of course, yeah.

CLIENT: You know. But does that enter into Deborah's mind? Oh, I didn't know you wanted me to stay with you. Well Deborah, what if I fell in the shower? By the time you came back in, I would have bled to death. I can't get my bra on, I can't get this on, where's Deborah? She's outside. [0:42:50.2]

THERAPIST: Listen, you really are coming up against their real limitations, their inability to really take care of you and it's frustrating and it makes you mad.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It hurts. It hurts your feelings and it makes you it frustrates you.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, yeah. So hey, what can you say? Ah-huh.

THERAPIST: They do not give you what you need.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: They're not there in that way for you.

CLIENT: No. No, no, no, no, no. What the hell? All right, I guess my time is up. I'll go get my door to door service. I got rid of my car.

THERAPIST: You did?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Why, it's just too much?

CLIENT: Too much.

THERAPIST: Yeah, what made you sell it?

CLIENT: It needed a lot of work done on it and I had to insure it and the insurance was just too much from that one accident that I got into and two that Todd got into. [0:44:01.7]

THERAPIST: Oh my God.

CLIENT: So. And they wanted it all upfront, two thousand and some odd dollars.

THERAPIST: For the insurance?

CLIENT: Yeah, and I said forget that.

THERAPIST: That's worth more than the car is worth.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, so. That's the end of that car, get used to taking the bus Deborah, because she's eligible, but she won't do it. That girl wanted to go on the bus, to go to McDonald's. She says come on Deborah. Deborah said I'm not getting on a bus because I'll wind up getting into a fight with somebody on the bus.

THERAPIST: She'll lose her temper, somebody will bump her.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. She does not like that one doesn't know how to deal with frustration.

CLIENT: No. I says it's lucky she's now walking up with Sandy, and they'll go into Dunkin Donuts and sit there and have a coffee, you know? She's found a new friend in Sandy. [0:45:16.9]

THERAPIST: How old is Sandy?

CLIENT: Sandy is 57, I think, but mentally, she's probably about maybe 30. She's a little slow. But um, yeah, so it's good, the two of them, you know.

THERAPIST: She's got somebody, a companion.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. She's got more friends than I do.

THERAPIST: So yeah, let me know about that Wednesday.

CLIENT: All right, yeah, I'll call them when I get home.

END TRANSCRIPT