TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Hi.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: Finally!

THERAPIST: Finally. Long time, no see. Mondays are good though, right? Mondays are going to be good?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay, good.

CLIENT: Have you got that thing going?

THERAPIST: I do.

CLIENT: All right.

THERAPIST: Is that for no fingerprints?

CLIENT: That's to keep it clean.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. I had Deborah take the stitches out and it's a little icky, but ah...

THERAPIST: Just trying to keep it so it doesn't get infected.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, trying to keep it clean, my little thingy.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, that's a big incision. How far down does it go?

CLIENT: Right down to the end of this one.

THERAPIST: Is that right? That's a big incision, wow.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So what did you do, did they cut a tendon or something?

CLIENT: Yeah. They cut all the tendons so that the finger will you know, go back and forth. [0:01:06.9]

THERAPIST: And you can already do that much better?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What about the other side?

CLIENT: No, that's very painful.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah, so. I had an appointment with them last Tuesday, to take the stitches out. So of course most naturally, Hurricane Sandy, that ended that appointment. So I called back and the kid's going to get back to me, I never hear from him. So by Friday I said to Deborah, because the stitches were getting so tight, I said, "Deborah, time to take the stitches out." I've left messages at this doctor's office, nobody calls me back, so to hell with it, I'll take them out myself.

THERAPIST: Okay. Unresponsive doctor.

CLIENT: Of course that hasn't been the first time with me.

THERAPIST: Yes, no it hasn't.

CLIENT: You know? It hasn't been the first doctor and it probably won't be the last doctor. And to think, she's going to do this hand? (laughs) I can't even get her to get the stitches out of this one. Oh, yeah. [0:02:18.0]

THERAPIST: Do you have an appointment scheduled?

CLIENT: Oh, no, no, I still can't get a hold of them. I've left messages about you know, the stitches, and I did tell the kid if you know, I can't get an appointment, I'll take them out myself. He says oh, no, no, the doctor wouldn't accept that. I says guess what, the doctor's not going to accept a lot of things that I do. So, we haven't heard back.

THERAPIST: This was when?

CLIENT: Well, Hurricane Sandy was last week.

THERAPIST: Yeah, so Monday, Tuesday.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So then you called Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know? So, well listen, I'll do it myself.

THERAPIST: So they didn't ever schedule for an operation for the other hand.

CLIENT: No, no. [0:03:21.8]

THERAPIST: One at a time, right?

CLIENT: Yeah. Unfortunately, I would like this hand done but you know, now I'm not too sure.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Well yeah, I mean well, I'm not too sure with the doctor.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay, yeah.

CLIENT: You know? If they're not going to call back and stuff like that then to hell with it.

THERAPIST: Then it's not worth your trouble?

CLIENT: Yeah. I'll go find another doctor that's in there, you know.

THERAPIST: Go through all that.

CLIENT: Yeah, and she's supposedly the hand surgeon. Hey, if her office doesn't want to call back, I don't know what the hell they expect from me.

THERAPIST: Well, I think you feel like you don't want to deal with a doctor that you feel doesn't want to respond or take good care of you.

CLIENT: Yeah, or take the time out for a fifteen minute appointment? Yeah. That's all it is, is a fifteen minute appointment with her. [0:04:25.4]

THERAPIST: And I've got to say, I think Louise, that it speaks to like you know, I think how meaningful it is to you that people are taking whether or not people are taking the right kind of care.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know, of you.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: You know?

CLIENT: I don't know what the hell to do with you know, her sister. Maybe I'll call her again today and see what they have available. And then sometimes it's like they set up an appointment and then when I go to call for a car service, they're not available.

THERAPIST: Yeah, a car service, you need what, a week in advance at least?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have you booked through the 26th of this month.

THERAPIST: Good, good. Yeah, just tell them it's every Monday. [0:05:28.9]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Are they okay for that?

CLIENT: I'm going to ask them when I call later today.

THERAPIST: Well I mean are they okay, does it work out if you -

CLIENT: Oh yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: How convenient is it for you?

CLIENT: Very convenient.

THERAPIST: It is?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Do they pick you up on time?

CLIENT: Yes. Sometimes, like they gave me a time of 10:15 to 10:45, to be here by 11:00, and he didn't come until 10:30.

THERAPIST: So they give you like a half hour window.

CLIENT: Yeah. Sometimes they're out there waiting for me at you know, quarter of 10:00. It depends on who I have for a driver that day.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess who they pick up too, right?

CLIENT: Yeah. Generally, this one guy that I like, he's always on time.

THERAPIST: That is good.

CLIENT: He's right there on time and yeah, he's good. The other ones, forget it. Sometimes I feel like I'm being kidnapped. I have never seen so many different ways to get from there, into here. I feel like I'm going to be held for hostage one of these days. [0:06:55.5]

THERAPIST: Where are they taking you? Where are they taking you?

CLIENT: All these back roads and I'm like, "Where are we going?" Well, I'm trying to avoid this street. So you take me down all these little shit one-way streets and then another one-way street? I mean it's like oh, okay. The bumpiest roads, oh yeah that's mm-hmm. I'm so glad you know, I really don't have like a stomach full of stitches or something, some of these roads they take me. But I like the door to door because it's a van. I don't like taxis because they put me in the back seat and I can't the leg in.

THERAPIST: Hard to get out, yeah.

CLIENT: And the leg out. So it's hard for me. I prefer the van. Don't send a car to come and get me, send me a van. [0:07:58.2]

THERAPIST: So, sometimes it will be door to door and sometimes it will be a van.

CLIENT: Well, no, generally it's the door to door, because I haven't applied for it yet.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: I've got that paperwork sitting on my table. In fact, you can even sign on it too, saying that I can take that instead.

THERAPIST: Yeah, bring it in.

CLIENT: Because I figure if I have both, at least if I can't get on this one, I can generally get on the other one.

THERAPIST: Yeah, no I'll do that.

CLIENT: And they work Saturdays and Sundays, and they work early in the morning until late at night. But yeah, I guess I don't have to worry about it getting dirty in here.

THERAPIST: Hey listen, my move is delayed one extra week, so I'm not moving over there until the first Monday in December. [0:09:00.8]

CLIENT: Work with me, because I've got to write your new address down.

THERAPIST: Here, let me get I'm putting it on a card.

CLIENT: We're not in the year 2013 yet, right? Even though I've got appointments already booked.

THERAPIST: Now, instead of me buzzing you in, there's a code, which I wrote down here. And so once you press in 2743 and the star key, you'll hear a click and you can just walk right in.

CLIENT: Okay. And you're on the first floor, right? [0:10:01.4]

THERAPIST: Fourth floor.

CLIENT: Okay, remind me not to get my nails done any time soon.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. It's probably like taking because it's kind of the stairs aren't too high. You know, there's not too much space in between the it's probably like taking two sets of the stairs down at the base of this building, that's probably how many stairs there are.

CLIENT: All right. Now, are you working Veterans Day?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Okay, because I've got you down, because I booked the car service for the 19th, and I think Deborah was going to book the ride for the 26th.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I have you on the 5th, I have my neurologist on the 8th. I have my headache doctor on the 9th and on the 12th, I have you. Then the following week, I have you on the 19th, I have someone else on the 20th, and then on the 26th, I have you, and then on the 29th, I have the dermatologist. [0:11:23.8]

THERAPIST: Team Louise.

CLIENT: Hey, they just love me.

THERAPIST: Team Louise.

CLIENT: Yes. And my granddaughter and sister, she's coming up for her winter vacation.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: She insists that she wants to spend Christmas and New Year's Eve with me and her mother.

THERAPIST: How about that?

CLIENT: So, she is right on her father's ass about getting here. I said it's fine by me. I said you know, "Just start begging your father, because I'm the one that has to pay the plane fare." If he waits too long, of course the prices go up.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: You know? Should have booked it last month instead of you know. [0:12:23.5]

THERAPIST: Yeah. It will still be six weeks. If he tells you now, you can still do it six weeks ahead of time. That's still a lot of time. What has he said about him and Heath and his -

CLIENT: His girlfriend, Ella?

THERAPIST: Yeah. No mention of Ella, just that she's been working on her father. She's been begging him that she wants to come up, you know? She's finally getting a set of balls. She wants out, yeah, you know, so I mean if she wants to come when she turns 18, I think she might fly the coop. My little baby (chuckles) is coming home.

CLIENT: Boy, that will be something for you, huh? [0:13:27.3]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. I miss the little shit so much.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, oh yeah. How long has it been now?

THERAPIST: Three years.

CLIENT: Gees.

THERAPIST: Next summer will be four years.

CLIENT: Three and a half.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Long time, huh? Through no fault of mine, it wasn't my fault, you know? Just that Deborah had to mouth off and that was that. What can you do? But you know, hey.

CLIENT: What? What are you thinking?

THERAPIST: I don't know, you know? I've just got to go with the grain of you know, with Deborah. I know it was Deborah but you know, I can't blame her for what she did, because I would have done the same. Well, I don't think I would have called DSS, but I would have did something. I might have even taken a ride down there and beaten the shit out of her. But! You know? If I had known then, I was going to turn into you know? I had no idea she did it, so how can he blame me for the fact that I didn't let him know? I mean, he lived with Deborah, he knows what Deborah was like. She tells you one thing and then she's doing another thing. She lies so much that she actually believes in some of these things that she's lying about. Like the time when we lived over next to the grocery store and she told me she got a job over at there, and then one day I went over there and I said to one of the girls, I was Deborah's (sp?) mother and you know, I came over to have lunch with her. Well, Deborah never worked there. She was getting dressed, going to the house next door and staying there all day smoking pot. But she swore she was working there, oh yeah. [0:16:00.6]

THERAPIST: To the point where she seemed like she believed it.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know? I mean, and Heath was living with us at the time. Him of all people should have you know, know what she's like.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: She tries to get out of these deals. She was living with my girlfriend's brother and she didn't want to stay there any more, so she told them all I had cancer again and she had to come home and take care of me, and I'm getting all these different e-mails from my friends about you know, what type of cancer did I have and was everything going to be working out. And I'm like, "What, I've got fucking cancer again?" Hey. She just gets you into these lovely things. Speaking of lovely, someone who has patients here, I mean that's a girl that was sitting out there. Yeah, yeah. They try to look like you know, why do most lesbians do that? [0:17:20.0]

THERAPIST: What did you see?

CLIENT: There was a person out there waiting to see somebody and you know, they've got their hair kind of like a boy and things like that, but they're really a girl.

THERAPIST: Oh, I see, who ended up waiting with you?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, what did you think of that?

CLIENT: Well I mean, if you want to be a boy, why don't you just go through the sexual transgender thing? Why just you know? Like Ellen and her wife, hey.

THERAPIST: Oh, so if you've got feelings towards -

CLIENT: Like if you're a lesbian and you want to be a lesbian because you want to play the butch in the relationship, why not -

THERAPIST: Why not go all the way to being a man.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's kind of like what follows in a way, is like hey, that they become they'd get a penis or something?

CLIENT: Yeah. Have the sexual hormones things, the breasts, have them removed, you know. I'm just wondering. [0:18:28.1]

THERAPIST: I think they like being a woman though. I think they like being a woman and are just...

CLIENT: How can you like being a woman though and want to act like a man?

THERAPIST: And act like a man.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I see, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: I'm just wondering.

THERAPIST: Yeah, no what do you think?

CLIENT: I think that if I had if I wanted to be in a relationship with another woman, and take the butch role, I'd have to go through the whole thing.

THERAPIST: You would?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Just because you're wearing boy's clothes, wearing boy's haircuts, doesn't make you a boy or a man, so go through with it.

THERAPIST: So go through with it, yeah. [0:19:30.8]

CLIENT: Why hide it? Has Keisha gotten any help? No. They know what they're doing.

THERAPIST: Huh. Yeah, and she wants to be a boy?

CLIENT: A man, yeah. You know, but she's not going to school. Him and her have been having big fights over it, because the mother says let her stay home and he's saying no, because she's not going to get away with what she got away with last year by, you know, going to school one day out of the month. The school doesn't know for this year. He pushes the kid to go to school and the mother says, No, you don't have to go, Keisha. Of course you know the thing is, yeah, I know you told me, yeah I know, but they had to get the dog for Keisha, because that was going to make Keisha go out and walk the dog. Yeah, well he walks the dog, you know? I have that dog more at my house than anything. I mean the dog has Deborah and I, we take the dog out and the dog goes into the schoolyard next door, does his business and then he's back home. Mark, he takes that dog for like a two, three mile walk and you know, they don't take the dog anywhere. The only other house the dog has been in is my house. He can see me and Deborah, say the dog's down at one end and we're at the other end. He sees us, he books it, right? I says, oh I can see that going some day with Deborah, and Keisha walking the dog, and all of a sudden the dog sees either me or Deborah and ba-boop, down goes the dog. I says, how do we explain to Mark, because he knows if he keeps this [0:21:50.8]

THERAPIST: I can't tell if Mark has thought this through or hasn't thought it through at all.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, he has. He's the one that's come up with these things, "What's going to happen if we take it out."

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, who keeps bringing the dog down here? I mean one Saturday, I was up at the bank and he was coming across the street with the dog, and that dog was going crazy.

THERAPIST: Do you think Deborah actually cares if he's seeing someone else?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: I'm not even sure she -

CLIENT: No. She hates me, that's all we hear, she hates me.

THERAPIST: What's that?

CLIENT: It's that Deborah hates him.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, she says it about him, yeah.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean, Thursday night, 9:30 at night, he's calling on the phone, "I'm coming by, I've got Jack with me." That's his excuse, he's got Jack, he's got to take Jack for a walk. Jack gets to the driveway, sees us, off goes the chain, he comes running. Sometimes he almost knocks me over. [0:23:10.4]

THERAPIST: What does he do, is he coming through the back door?

CLIENT: He used to, now he don't any more. He just comes right through the front door and into the apartment with the damn dog.

THERAPIST: Oh, is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I told you we take care of an English bulldog, Julie.

THERAPIST: I remember you telling me, yeah.

CLIENT: So, Julie and him get along fantastic. He chases her all I mean my apartment, it's like zoom, zoom, zoom. Around the coffee table, on the coffee table, this one's hitting its head, this one's hitting, and the two get locked in the bedroom. Oh, yeah, I have to run quick to put a gate across my kitchen because if not, Julie will generally book it in there first and eat all the cat food, after she's already eaten all the dog food. So we've got to put something across that so that Jack don't get into it either. Thank the Lord, Julie, I can go I take her out to the front of the building to walk her and I takes me 45 minutes to get her back into the building. She just lays there and she's not going to go anywhere, so we have to take baby carrots and break them off in pieces and throw them, and then she goes after it, eats it, and then you've got to go up a little bit more way, throw another piece of carrot. Julie eats carrots. Only dog I ever knew that ate carrots. But of course now that Jack sees Julie eating carrots, he has to have carrots too. [0:24:54.8]

The other day, I fed Jack a half of a grilled cheese and ham sandwich, he loved that. Mark goes, "I thought that was for me." I says, "I had asked you a long time ago and you said no, you didn't want it." I says, "So it's been sitting there, Jack can have it." Well, he ain't going to eat when he goes home. I says, "He'll eat for Chrissakes." Dogs don't know any better, they'll eat until they make themselves sick. Welcome to Louise's babysitting service.

THERAPIST: It's your own kennel.

CLIENT: My own kennel. The other day I had two bulldogs. I had Julie and I had this other one.

THERAPIST: Like Jack.

CLIENT: And then we had Jack. Oh yeah, just wonderful. I said, "I think it's time for you to go to home, Mark. Take Jack with you, come back later without Jack." Ah-huh. Yeah, he's been over every day, Monday through Thursday. [0:26:19.2]

THERAPIST: What's it been like?

CLIENT: All right, you know? I yell at him, tell him to shut up, all these great things. Okay, I'm leaving. He's not gone five minutes and he's on the phone already, "I'm bringing Jack back home, I'll be right back." Oh, okay. He was there the day of the hurricane and was there the day after the hurricane. The next day after, Wednesday, he generally has the car because he takes Mark to the doctor. So he drops her off, comes back to the house, him and I go for a ride, we come back, he drops me off, goes to get Keisha, then he comes back. I mean it's like you know.

THERAPIST: He wants to be around you a lot.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. [0:27:20.1]

THERAPIST: What about sex? Have you guys had sex?

CLIENT: Oh no, no.

THERAPIST: Not on the table. He wants -

CLIENT: He wants it. I finally agreed Thursday night and then he said to me, "No, we're just friends."

THERAPIST: Wow, head games, huh?

CLIENT: Yeah. I said, okay, fine.

THERAPIST: What did you think of that move?

CLIENT: I just you know, said okay.

THERAPIST: What did you make of that?

CLIENT: Oh, he'll be back, he'll be back.

THERAPIST: You've got to take the long view authority.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. He thinks I'm doing it with the maintenance man that's three years old, that my Deborah has the hots for, but he's afraid of taking Deborah out because he's afraid he'll lose his job. I says well you know, after work, your time is your time, they can't tell you what to do and not to do. I said it's on your time, you have your own vehicle, I says so I don't see you know? So this has been going on for I don't know how many weeks. Now he's in my apartment three and four times a day, during his break, during another break, but his excuse is always he's coming to see Deborah's mother. Deborah will be with him and he'll come in the door and he'll say, "Are you decent?" And I'll say no. Okay, and he comes in anyways. I says, but see he's got to ask that when he comes in the door, I says because he works the house, so if anybody walking by, he's got to say you know. But yeah, he comes in the house an awful bit, a lot. He comes in when Mark's there. Oh yeah, it's a fun time. (laughs) [0:29:33.4]

THERAPIST: This is the you take all comers in that place, huh?

CLIENT: Yeah, you know? And Mark goes well, you know, if you're with him, you know that's all right, and I said don't worry, I know it's all right. I said, if you can be with other women, then I definitely can be with other men. You've got to I said, you don't belong to me and I don't belong to you, so that's it. I don't know why you keep thinking I've got other women, it's just you and Deborah, and this is going on three years now. I says, "Yeah, I know." I said, "How would you know?" I just do, this is the longest I've ever been with someone else. I said oh, okay, whoopee. So he came over yesterday to let me know that he was leaving on Thursday, him, Deborah and Keisha, because there's some kind of an art concert thing. I don't know, it was last year and Keisha wants to go to it so supposedly they're going. I'm saying shit, how the hell are they going to get out, with all of this roads being down, subways being flooded. [0:31:09.9]

THERAPIST: They went this past Thursday?

CLIENT: No, they're going this Thursday coming.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: And he's doing the driving, and then they say there's no gas stations that have gas, people are in line for three days. I'm just wondering if he's thinking you know? Yeah, the concert might be on but you know.

THERAPIST: How do you feel about him going down there?

CLIENT: For Keisha, I don't care, anything for Keisha, and Deborah will go with her to all the concerts, because they won't let her go in alone. And Mark says well, "I'll be just back at the hotel having a good time." But no, it doesn't you know, hey. I don't mind him being with them on the weekends to give me a break. Fine. And today, Deborah took off work today because there's a big thing going on at the gym. So he might not make it over today but he'll be definitely there Tuesday and Wednesday. Okay, you know? [0:32:27.1]

THERAPIST: Yeah, what, what do you...?

CLIENT: He didn't have to tell me this shit, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah, no in some ways, I guess you're getting the feeling that he's trying to be more of kind of a boyfriend of some sort.

CLIENT: I don't know what's going on with him, I don't. Yeah, I just can't make it with him. One minute he's this and you know, now all of a sudden he's coming over the house yesterday, calls me and he says he's out walking Jack but he's going to bring Jack home, but he's got to come by because he wants to talk to me. This isn't like Mark, to come and say to me, I'm not going to be here Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday because I'm taking Keisha, and Deborah too. [0:33:33.0]

THERAPIST: Yeah. How do you react to it?

CLIENT: I said oh, that's good.

THERAPIST: No, I mean but how do you feel about it?

CLIENT: I feel yeah, I don't mind. It doesn't bother me in the least.

THERAPIST: But almost like you're sort of noticing that he's been more upfront or something about things.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, you know?

THERAPIST: And you just don't know what to make of it?

CLIENT: Yeah. Generally that's not like him.

THERAPIST: He'll just disappear.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I won't hear from him. I mean, he could be home for all I know, you know, but here he is telling me he's going to New Jersey and he'll be gone Thursday, Friday, Saturday, but they'll be back Sunday. I don't know, they might even be back he's got to work Sunday, unless he takes off Sunday too. I don't know. I'll find out tomorrow. [0:34:36.7]

THERAPIST: But he's been coming by more and more, out front.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, oh yeah. I tell ya, Thursday night, the phone, 9:00, he'd be calling on the phone. Five past nine, he'd be on the phone, ten past nine he'd be on the phone, and Deborah's going, "Will you tell him to not fucking call any more." Because Deborah was trying to go to sleep, because she gets up early when the we have Julie, she's up at 4:00, 4:30, because that's when Julie wants to go out for a walk. Yeah, she gets up early and she goes to bed early.

THERAPIST: Well, I get a sense, I guess I kind of wonder, like in some ways it must be kind of like he is with sex and wanting to be back in bed with you, there's a kind of way he's being, wanting to spend a lot of time with you, wanting to be very upfront with you, and you're kind of wary of him. [0:35:48.2]

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: What does this mean, what is his...?

CLIENT: Yeah, you know? I mean all I hear is oh, I love you, you know I love you. I said yeah, I love hemorrhoids too. I'm serious now.

THERAPIST: You won't reciprocate.

CLIENT: Maybe after so long, during the course of the days, when he's leaving. I love you too honey. I miss you. (laughs) And out the door he goes.

THERAPIST: Will you be joking or you'd be serious?

CLIENT: Well, he thinks I'm joking but you know, I'll be serious about it, and Deborah will go, "You ball buster." I says yeah, but he enjoys it. What can I say? Then poor Robin will be standing there in the doorway and I'll be saying to Robin, I says, "You know Robin, I want to thank you for the other day because you really made me feel like a woman." And he'll go, "Any time." What did Mark say the other day? He says to Deborah, "Oh, I love you," and she says to Mark, "I love you too." I says to Robin, "Robin, I love you," he goes, "And I love you too." (laughs) I mean you know, like I'm 30 years older than Robin but you know, hey, if Mark wants to think I'm fooling around with him, fine. Stupid ass. (laughs) He's so stupid ah, but I gotta love him, you know? I can't deny that. [0:37:45.4]

THERAPIST: I guess you do.

CLIENT: I put up with his shit.

THERAPIST: I guess you do.

CLIENT: Now he's going to have to put up with my shit and I love it. Who knows?

THERAPIST: Well, taking you out for rides, telling you where he's going to be.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean that's not like Mark. Very shocking. I still haven't seen my poor James. I sent him his birthday card with his I got him a gift certificates to Toys R Us, and then I had to send a card. [0:38:58.7]

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: My other cousin, she just had her sixth baby.

THERAPIST: How old is she?

CLIENT: She's up there. I'd say she's in her forties.

THERAPIST: Sixth baby, huh?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: This is what cousin, from what...?

CLIENT: My cousin from my first cousin, which is Jackie's brother. He had three daughters and then a son, and this daughter here lost a little boy in the drowning a few years back.

THERAPIST: Oh, no.

CLIENT: Yeah. She dropped him off at day camp, him and his brother, and they weren't being watched and he drowned.

THERAPIST: Oh, wow.

CLIENT: I think he was four at the time, yeah. So now they have a law that they just passed, that all children need to have life preservers on them. [0:40:08.7]

THERAPIST: Where were they, were they at a pool or the beach?

CLIENT: They were at a summer camp at a lake.

THERAPIST: They were at a lake, oh boy.

CLIENT: She lives way out, that's all I know. But yeah, she just had another baby girl.

THERAPIST: Yeah, what about that middle name?

CLIENT: I like it.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm glad you know, because she had two more babies after he died and she didn't name any of them after him.

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