TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: What is this?

CLIENT: This is the paper for the ride. Most of it, I find, doesn't apply to me, like "can I walk up to the bus stop?" No, I can't. "Do I need to wear a helmet?" Things like that.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: No hurry on it.

THERAPIST: Let me just make sure I've got the information I need from you. Primary condition causing disability we would say knees? Chronic severe knees?

CLIENT: Yeah. Chronic pain in the rib cage. Tonight if I was to catch a regular bus I would say it would be from here or maybe up to where the training station stop is there, I can't walk that distance. [00:01:16]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Chronic pain in the knees and in the ribs still?

CLIENT: Yeah. That will never change. (chuckles) (pause)

THERAPIST: Okay. It's been going on for how long?

CLIENT: The rib cage pain has been 20 years, but the knee has been since 2003.

THERAPIST: Okay. "Applicant's disability prevents them from riding a regular bus." Yeah, because you can't get to the bus stop. Visual impairment?

CLIENT: No. [00:02:44]

THERAPIST: I can do three and four on my own. "Assuming the length of one block is 500 feet, how many blocks can the applicant travel?"

CLIENT: Zero.

THERAPIST: "Can applicant cross streets without assistance?" Yes. I think they're sort of saying "can you see and hear" and stuff like that. "Applicant can wait outside at a bus stop for 15 minutes." That's too much on you.

CLIENT: Yeah, too much. (pause) [00:04:10]

THERAPIST: How about "ability to get around on your own?" Varying degree at different times. Is it significantly different in any ways? Are there days when you can do a hell of a lot more?

CLIENT: Not really.

THERAPIST: Okay. I'll do the rest of this and get it back to you. Good. So... [00:04:50]

CLIENT: The week started off kind of crappy. Mark was still mad because of what Robin had to say, you know "you're not welcome here." On Monday after I left here I called him and he said he was busy and he would call me later. I said, "Okay, fine." Well he did finally call me back around suppertime and to say that he wasn't mad at me but he had a lot of things to do today, Monday, that he had to get done and that he'd see me tomorrow. Okay, fine. Tuesday morning he called and said, "Is Deborah home?" I said, "Yes, she's in the other room." He said, "Well, I think I might be bringing Keisha by to talk to Deborah." So I said, "That's fine. No problem there." So he said, "Okay. I'll give you a call back." So about an hour went by and I called him back and said, "Are you bringing Keisha back?" [00:06:13] He said, "No, she won't come so I'll be down there myself with Jack." I tell you, if that dog sees me if I'm standing in my doorway outside and the dog sees us, from the moment he enters the parking lot he has to let the dog run loose because other than that that dog will take off with Mark and all. It's like you lose your arm if you try to stay attached to him. He comes running up with the leash hanging and he's so excited. The only place he gets to go is my house. (chuckles) Mark will walk him a couple of miles but they come down to my house and, of course, if Julie's there he's got to play with Julie. My living room is like this and the dogs go around and around my coffee table. You can just forget about it, chasing each other around the frigging room. [00:07:20] It's like a madhouse then. I said, "Yeah, come back, Mark, but leave Jack home." Then Julie will kind of just shut him off. She'll just lay down and fall immediately to sleep because she's too pooped, poor thing. She's got these short, short legs and this big, big body; plus she's ten pounds overweight. And, of course, Jack's still a puppy. He's 11 months old and he's bouncing off the walls and everything. Julie will get him by the neck and just hold onto him. She'll hold onto the bottom part of his mouth and we'll have to go, "Julie, let go. Be nice, Julie." Then, as I say, she just plops out and falls asleep. [00:08:17] He goes near her. No, he knows not to bother her when she's asleep. (both chuckle) So he lays down right next to her and the two of them go to sleep. One's got his head under the coffee table and the other one is on the other side of the coffee table with his head under it. I mean it's cute. [00:08:40]

THERAPIST: They find some way to...

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. To connect.

THERAPIST: To connect.

CLIENT: I was very surprised with Jack being able to quiet down and the two of them nose and nose asleep underneath the coffee table.

THERAPIST: It has kind of somewhat a ring of Mark and you.

CLIENT: Yeah. (laughs) Him on one side and me on the other side. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Also I was thinking Jack Mark being a bit of a wild guy.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. He's now calmed down with Julie. Even Mark will say it. Jack will bite Deborah and Keisha. I say, "He doesn't bite me. He doesn't bit Deborah, either. I don't know what the problem is." I'll say to him, "Be nice," and then he'll give me a kiss. I say, "He's fine." What is it that they're doing wrong at home? He behaves perfectly at my house. [00:10:01]

THERAPIST: So he bites Deborah, his wife, but doesn't bite your Deborah, your daughter.

CLIENT: He bites Mark, too. I'm telling you, we've already discussed this that if Deborah and I were ever walking down the street if his Deborah or Keisha were walking Jack yeah. He would take off. He would leave them in the wind and head for me and Deborah. So I said, "Whoops. Tell him not even to cross the street and walk on the side of the street that I live on. We live right down to the end of the cul de sac and that would be it. He'd head right for my apartment. I said, "You just tell them Erin and Reese live there, because they know Erin." (laughs) Yeah, think of ways to get out of these things, Mark. [00:11:12] I guess Keisha's really giving them a hard time. I think she can only school until 11:00 and then she goes to a tutor up at the library in the square until 1:00, and then she's done. But, yeah, she needs a tutor almost every day, or every other day.

THERAPIST: She's probably falling very behind in her work, right?

CLIENT: Well, no she's not behind because she can go the whole month of school and then go in for the one day and take the test and pass everything, not even knowing what they were studying about. I guess she's working with her on college courses, same as Darla. Sure, Darla's already got four years of college classes in with her starting in, but Darla doesn't mind going to school. Keisha does because of all the changes that she wants that they're not letting her have. I mean if she wants to be come a boy, let her become a boy. Why let her make herself more miserable and more that she wants to kill herself, you know? "She's only 16. She doesn't know what she wants." I said, "No. It's not that she's 16, she probably was like that since she was five or six or even younger they know, Mark, that they want to become a female or a male." [00:13:03]

THERAPIST: It just occurred to me, of course, that you would be very aware of these issues given what your father was like about your own kind of development and the whole "you've got to play with the dolls," "you can't ride a bike" and...

CLIENT: You can't go horseback riding, you can't do this, you know.

THERAPIST: But it really had a profound effect on what your version of being a girl was and a woman was; that he wanted you to fit into a very strict category of what a girl was and your definition was very different.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think between him and his two brothers, I think they all expected their wives to be like the Stepford wives, they obeying wives, silly dresses, all day long you had to wear a dress. My mother was in jeans and shorts, you know? [00:14:08]

THERAPIST: She was?

CLIENT: Oh, yes. She wasn't into that Stepford stuff. What do you think? That's why he got her committed a few times.

THERAPIST: But she would hold out on that stuff.

CLIENT: I mean she wore dresses, but not seven days a week. She didn't have the white apron on, the skirt apron. My mother did sew, my mother did knit, and she was an excellent cook.

THERAPIST: She cooked, yeah. She cooked three squares a day.

CLIENT: We lived right across the street from the school. We had to come home for lunch, which wasn't allowed. But my mother had us come home for lunch. [00:15:04]

THERAPIST: But that was more her, right? That was more her than your father, is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. She wanted us to have a hot meal and we weren't going to eat that school shit, as far as my mother was concerned.

THERAPIST: How about that? But, okay, that was more coming from her. It wasn't because your father expected that?

CLIENT: It was more my mother and I think that was because of her upbringing of not having...

THERAPIST: The mayonnaise sandwiches in the closet.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: She wasn't going to let you guys have that.

CLIENT: We weren't allowed peanut butter and jelly or marshmallow sandwiches. No, because that was the staple that she had so she had to have... I mean she bought cold cuts. We had cold cuts. Even a hot meal would be waiting for us. Mother was very strict on that. [00:16:11] And then when we went to high school, that was a little different. She made our lunches. And when I say made our lunch, you went to school with a shoulder bag. (chuckles) She had the hot meal all ready and wrapped and everything, because we didn't have microwaves in school. She'd have the sandwiches in there and she'd have pickles, she'd have chips. You had everything in there.

THERAPIST: She was going to make sure you were well fed and taken care of.

CLIENT: I mean what we had for lunch, we could have sold for good money. (chuckles) She always had baked goodies, chocolate chip cookies, brownies, cakes, you name it. She would make her own cream puffs, with the shell in it and then she'd put the whipped cream in it. Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: She really did it up. Sounds like you had the fanciest lunches in school.

CLIENT: The same way for suppers. It was always never leftovers.

THERAPIST: Never leftovers, yeah. [00:17:36]

CLIENT: The only thing I can remember her making leftovers was if we had a roast beef. She would take that and make gravy and put it in one pan, like a beef stew almost. Deborah doesn't eat leftovers. I eat leftovers. Except Deborah can eat cold pizza left over. I have to heat it.

THERAPIST: Right, right. I was just thinking about...

CLIENT: Except when she's stoned. She can eat anything and everything.

THERAPIST: I was just thinking about you, too. You tend to bring you're always the person that brings the food or makes sure everything is well stocked. I recall you telling me that if somebody had a birthday party at work, you were the one that made sure the cake was there and it was well done.

CLIENT: Yeah. I made sure there was enough not just for six but for 12 or more people because you never know. When they hear free food, everybody's there. [00:19:05]

THERAPIST: We went down this road because we were talking about your mom and how she resisted a lot of what your dad wanted out of a woman, a Stepford wife; and yet she definitely had some things that were kind of traditionally female but it was hers. It wasn't something that she was obedient to. It was just what she wanted. And that's the same with you. It's the same with you. It seems like you've resisted a lot of kind of the stereotypes that your father wanted you to fall under. What were you just thinking? [00:19:50]

CLIENT: I was just thinking how true that is, you know? Not being able to do this. My mother was nothing like the other two brothers' wives. The other two brothers married two sisters and the two sisters were both alcoholics and so were their husbands. My father wasn't that much of a drinker. He occasionally drank beer and the same with my mother beer.

THERAPIST: But they didn't get hard into the...?

CLIENT: No. The first beers my brother and I would steal was Miller Lite, because that's what they drank at the house. The hard booze was there, but they didn't drink it. It was more or less for company.

THERAPIST: So the women that...

CLIENT: The women that my uncles married were two sisters.

THERAPIST: Oh, that's right.

CLIENT: Ada and Harriet. Their last name was Larson.

THERAPIST: What were they like?

CLIENT: I don't remember much of them because they were always shit-faced and they lived in different areas from where we lived. And the times that I was with them, as I say, they were shit-faced. We used to go over to the mall. When it first opened up there was a bar in there. My Aunt Harriet lived right across on the other side of the park. I don't know what that road is. She walked over there every day to that bar and sat there until they closed. A couple of times when she walked over there she got hit by a fucking car, broke her hip, her leg oh, yeah just to get to the other side, to the bar. [00:21:32]

THERAPIST: Was it a four-lane highway then?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. Had to drink. Had to drink. My uncle, who married her, he was nasty when he was drinking. I remember when he married his second wife, we would go to [...] (inaudible at 00:22:53). It would be her daughter, me, to keep her daughter company, and my uncle. He'd be in the car pissed at her. "You're nothing but a fucking whore. I picked you up off the fucking gutter. You had fucking nothing before you married me." Really rotten to the core.

THERAPIST: Angry, nasty and everything.

CLIENT: Yeah. And like an [...] (inaudible at 00:23:28) taken. She took it for so long and then she divorced my I mean it must have been the bar. They were together probably for about 30-some-odd years.

THERAPIST: But in the gutter? But in the gutter? [00:23:38]

CLIENT: My mother was completely different. She'd be home cooking meals, she'd be sewing, she'd be knitting, and the other two would be shit-faced all the time.

THERAPIST: Is Con Mary's father?

CLIENT: Yeah. I think he was the first boy. The four girls were born first and then there was my uncle. Con's real name is Conrad, then my Uncle Dave and then my father, the baby. They were all born at home all seven of them. And it's funny, on the way over here with this door-to-door, they take more back roads than anything. I look at some of these houses that were originally one house, but now there's like six apartments in them. My grandmother's house was so humongous it had a six-car garage. [00:25:05]

THERAPIST: Where was this?

CLIENT: Near the grocery store. There was really not much land. There probably was dirt and stuff there before I was born and stuff, but it was all concrete. There was the garage and the house. It had an enclosed back porch with a wooden swing that had a bench here and a bench here and then the wooden floor. It was like a glider thing. You could sit on one side and just glide back and forth. We had one of those on the back porches. The porch up above on the second floor was an enclosed back porch. You went in and there was a kitchen. There was the dining room, the living room and the piano room. [00:26:12]

THERAPIST: Big place. That's on the first floor?

CLIENT: Yeah. And there was also an enclosed front porch from one side to the other side, all heated and everything. On the second floor there was my Aunt Lilas' bedroom, my grandmother's bedroom, my Aunt Fiona's bedroom, and then another bedroom. I don't know whose that was because they were already out of the house by then. Fiona and Lilas never married. And they each all had doors going out to the porches. Then on the third floor it was one big, big room where the boys were.

THERAPIST: The boys were at the top? [00:27:04]

CLIENT: Yeah, and the girls were on the second floor. Then there was a basement that also had a washing machine and dryer and all of that; and it had a bathroom down there. There was plenty of room in that big house.

THERAPIST: Big place.

CLIENT: Yeah, very big.

THERAPIST: Nine people living there.

CLIENT: Yeah. I can imagine when the girls were young the two of them must have doubled because there was Fiona and Lilas, probably, and then the others in one room.

THERAPIST: What did your father's father do for work?

CLIENT: He was a plumber and he was also a builder. He built houses, mostly a plumber.

THERAPIST: Did he own his own company?

CLIENT: Yes, he did. All three boys were plumbers.

THERAPIST: He must have done well for himself. [00:28:15]

CLIENT: He had to to support the family. I know they had maids. Grandmother had a couple of black maids.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: When her kids were young. They weren't around when we were born.

THERAPIST: But they were well to do?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. Very well to do. They never wanted for anything as kids themselves.

THERAPIST: Do you know much about what your grandparents were like as parents?

CLIENT: No, because they were old when I was born. In fact, my grandfather had Alzheimer's. My mother would take us as kids down to have my grandfather with us. She would have to be more concerned about where he was wandering off, then we were just settled right in one place. "Where's ma?" "She went to look for grampy." They put him in a nursing home and then he tried to escape from the nursing home and they had to tie him down because, at that time, they didn't have Alzheimer's units. This was like 50 years ago. I was probably about five or six. Then he developed pneumonia and that was it. [00:29:56]

THERAPIST: Your grandmother lived a while longer, right? And how do you remember her?

CLIENT: She was pleasant.

THERAPIST: She was?

CLIENT: Yeah. Shit, they all waited on her hand and foot, but she still had to cook the Sunday meal, though.

THERAPIST: I recall that.

CLIENT: When we washed the dishes one would put the stuff away.

THERAPIST: Is that right? And when she died the whole family kind of broke apart, is that right?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. That was the end of Sunday meals. Of course, us kids were all like "Hooray, Hooray."

THERAPIST: You didn't like them? What were they like for you?

CLIENT: You went in, we couldn't watch TV, we couldn't do anything. There was no place to play.

THERAPIST: You couldn't play?

CLIENT: No. You could sit in the piano room and play the frigging piano, but you'd hear, "Shut that thing down." We'd have to close it. (chuckles) Evidently, we all sucked at it. You couldn't do anything. [00:31:20]

THERAPIST: Wow. No wonder you were glad to be done with it.

CLIENT: You could sit out on the back porch there and rock back and forth. Whoopie. We didn't have cell phones. We didn't have games that we could play.

THERAPIST: Toys or...

CLIENT: We could play Monopoly on the parlor rug. Whoopee. We could play Clue, Scrabble. We could play cards. No, thank you.

THERAPIST: What were you more into?

CLIENT: Me? I played with dolls. I loved dolls. My Aunt Fiona worked at a clothing store and she would buy me my clothes and then she would have I had a stand-up doll she would have doll clothes made exactly to what I had on. I remember having red velvet shoes and my doll had red velvet shoes. I had the red jacket with the fur on it and the doll had the same thing. Oh, yeah. I was spoiled. (laughs) Mary goes, "I was her favorite." I said, "Yeah, you thought you were." (laughs) [00:32:43]

THERAPIST: Not so much, huh?

CLIENT: Not so much, Mary. Not so much. And then all their money went to my son.

THERAPIST: Right, right.

CLIENT: Because he was such a good boy. He'd go over there and he'd shovel the driveway and the stairs and the front and everything. Of course, little did they know it was my father that was dropping him off so he could do it. It wasn't my son's idea, it was my father's idea. "Get that boy right in there so he gets their money when they're cold and dead." [00:33:27]

THERAPIST: It was calculated.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. Mary still swears my father screwed her and her brother out of their father's money.

THERAPIST: Because he was the executor?

CLIENT: The executor, yeah. My other two cousins, Jackie and Dave, Jackie mostly, swears that my father got all of her father's money, which he didn't.

THERAPIST: Your father was the executor of everyone's estate?

CLIENT: Yeah. Money's got to go somewhere. It's got to go somewhere.

THERAPIST: And he took it, he took it.

CLIENT: He made sure that he got it and that Heath would get it.

THERAPIST: And now he's got it. [00:34:29]

CLIENT: Yeah, he's got it; the only child of his loving son.

THERAPIST: His loving son. Wow.

CLIENT: And his wife. Talk about taking a knife and really stabbing you in the heart, just turning and churning.

THERAPIST: Even at death. The final one.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know how my brother is feeling down there. I really don't give a fuck, but he must feel the same way after working all those years for my father well, my father screwed him royally before when he couldn't work any more. My father was like he wasn't going to pay for his health insurance. He sued my father and he won good.

THERAPIST: What did he win? How much did he win? A workman's comp kind of thing?

CLIENT: Yeah. No, he went after him for not insuring him. I don't know, insurance fraud or something. But, yeah, he got my father good. He got a good settlement from that, which I'm so glad. I'm glad somebody was able to screw him before he died.

THERAPIST: When did he do that? [00:36:12]

CLIENT: Shit. It had to be I'm trying to remember when Heath got married. Isn't that bad that you don't even know when your son got married? Oh, God. I don't know.

THERAPIST: It was around that time?

CLIENT: Yeah, because Mickie was invited to the wedding, so I think after that. I think Mickie was still working for my father then.

THERAPIST: I see, but somewhere after that.

CLIENT: Yeah. He had gone to the back doctor again and the back doctor told him he couldn't work anymore, especially in the line of work he was doing. When he was driving the oil truck, his disc was so shattered that there was just nothing more they could do. He had his first spinal disc thing done when I got married, because he was the best man and my brother was in a cast at that time from here up to here. After the surgery, they'd go back and drive the truck again and there would be the bumping of the spine up against the truck and you know, gone. No more health for him. My father was an asshole. What can I say? I'm so glad my mother got out when she did. You know how she learned how to hide her medication in her mouth so that they thought that she took it, but she didn't take those happy pills. She'd spit them out. And then they decided to do that little shock treatment on Irene. [00:38:35]

THERAPIST: ECT?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: [...] (inaudible at 00:38:39)

CLIENT: Yep. She'd come home like the walking zombie.

THERAPIST: All these mind controlled things. Wow, your dad being the executor, the executive.

CLIENT: As I say, there are so many incidents, not just my family, but with the other relatives about how much money it costs to get away with things. You could call up the family doctor and say, "Listen, she needs to be committed." I don't know what was big money then, probably $500 might have been big money. I don't know. "Louise needs to have an abortion. We can have that on the kitchen table. Give her a shot of whiskey." Pay some doctor and family doctor gets the money, the guy who does the abortion gets his money I mean, it's all just hush money. And then to buy those judges for my cousin for his dishonorable discharge from the service, but all of a sudden, now he was honorably discharged from the service because he got carrying guns across the border? I mean, all these stupid things but then they get off with it. This guy that worked for my father as an oil driver, his daughter hung out with Conrad. Conrad was drunk in the car. It went off of Route 2 just as you're going down the daughter dies. They paid him $15,000. They paid the judge money to get it I mean, cops. Everything got paid paid, paid, paid off. [00:40:54]

THERAPIST: Money. Money controls the lot.

CLIENT: I can say what is a drop in the hat now was probably big money back then. $20,000 now $20,000 would cost you $100,000. But, yet, they would put it up. All the times my cousin, Mary, herself would get caught and all the things that father would get her off. If it wasn't for father father was down South one time and she was up at the jail for drugs and everything else and my father had to put up the house to bail her out of jail. He had to put up his own house because they couldn't get a hold of the father.

THERAPIST: He had to get a second mortgage or something?

CLIENT: Yeah. It was ridiculous. Shit I'm the only one who didn't get arrested. Damn it. I knew I did something correct, you know?

THERAPIST: Well, he also couldn't control you.

CLIENT: No, no. (singing) Uncontrollable is what she was.

THERAPIST: He couldn't kind of rein you in. Money could buy a lot of things, but not that. [00:42:33]

CLIENT: Yeah, shit. The only thing I did wrong was have an abortion.

THERAPIST: The only thing that was wrong?

CLIENT: Yeah. I got pregnant. I wasn't an alcoholic, I wasn't a junky, I wasn't a thief. Oh, well.

THERAPIST: You felt badly about the pregnancy? About getting pregnant? What were you feeling?

CLIENT: I didn't want the abortion. I was 19. The guy I got pregnant with was a sailor. He was on a ship. My father dug into him.

THERAPIST: So he knew that you had gotten pregnant this guy? [00:43:28]

CLIENT: Yeah

THERAPIST: What was his name?

CLIENT: Gio Pucci (sp?).

THERAPIST: Italian?

CLIENT: Yes. When my father found out he was married and already had a wife and this and this, so everything was done and over with. I wasn't having that kid as far as my father was concerned. Yes. There weren't going to be any little bastards running around.

THERAPIST: How old was he? How old was Gio?

CLIENT: Twenty-one. What can I say? I was young. I thought I was in love.

THERAPIST: And he handled it so coolly.

CLIENT: Yeah. For my father it was like, "This is what's happening, Louise. You're having an abortion and it's not going to be in a hospital," because that was illegal then and all. Talk about fucking screaming my fucking head off. My mother left the room. My mother went in the other room and cried while my Aunt is pouring the fucking Jack Daniels or whatever it was down my throat. Oh, yeah. That was real fun. [00:44:50]

THERAPIST: That was one way he was trying he controlled the situation.

CLIENT: Yeah. You had no say.

THERAPIST: You had no say. He took over your body, he and this doctor.

CLIENT: It wasn't a very pleasant affair.

THERAPIST: This doctor is kind of a notorious figure. I think a lot has been written about him. I assume it's the same guy. He was notorious.

CLIENT: Backyard abortions. Back alley abortions.

THERAPIST: Back alley abortions. That guy made a lot of money.

CLIENT: He came to the house. I had a house call. Isn't that nice? He got paid more money probably.

THERAPIST: Sadistic men.

CLIENT: I wouldn't mind but the family doctor was a surgeon. They used to call him up at the hospital Dr. Slash because, no matter what you had, you were getting operated on whether you needed it or not. I went to school with his daughter. We went to high school together. This happened after high school. He's the one that lined it up for my father. [00:46:20]

THERAPIST: He set it up with the doctor?

CLIENT: Yeah. "You know of a place... a doctor... pregnant?" You know. "Do you think you can get her committed because she's not behaving? She's defying me."

THERAPIST: And if you had enough cash you could get it done. So he would be the one that also greased the wheels for Lillian, huh?

CLIENT: Everything, yeah. He paid to have my aunt put away. The more money you can make, why not? I still hate him with a fucking passion. [00:47:23]

THERAPIST: He's not dead to you in certain ways, is he?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Very much alive.

CLIENT: I could never put him to rest peacefully. Maybe I should write my father's autobiography.

THERAPIST: What would you want to say? Write all this out.

CLIENT: I would write what was true and things that he did to my mother, my brother and me.

THERAPIST: To have that story be told.

CLIENT: You got any good books up there I could read? (laughs)

THERAPIST: No, I don't. Only really boring ones. (laughs)

CLIENT: History of trauma?

THERAPIST: History of trauma? Well it seems applicable here. That would be a good thing to read now if it wasn't so boring. Where did you see that?

CLIENT: Up here.

THERAPIST: Oh, that is a very good book, actually. It's a really good book. I tell you, it talks about exactly what you're trying to tell me about how important it is to tell your story. It really is, Louise. [00:48:36]

CLIENT: I should have been a Sybil multiple personalities. I really should have been.

THERAPIST: I think what keeps you sane is being able to talk your story, to tell your story, to write his biography.

CLIENT: The worst part about it was going to I forget what her name is over at some other clinic there, the one who didn't believe me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Oh, no. "You couldn't do those things in those days." [Like hell you couldn't.] (ph?)

THERAPIST: Some people don't want to look at the harsh truths.

CLIENT: Now my next trip is here, and then after that it's over there.

THERAPIST: Yes. Have a good Thanksgiving, Louise.

CLIENT: Same to you. Will you be around?

THERAPIST: I will be around, yeah.

CLIENT: You're not going to go home?

THERAPIST: Not going to go home. Family is coming up here.

CLIENT: Ooh, my goodness. You're cooking?

THERAPIST: I'm going to help. I'm going to try. It's going to be a team effort. You look skeptical about that idea.

CLIENT: You'd better have some kind of Alka Seltzer or something. Have them out.

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