TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Hey.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: I’m not sure if I’m losing my voice or getting sick or what’s up, but my body…like I have a hard time speaking.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I worked Thursday. We had an all staff meeting and I was trying to talk about something. I was…my voice was cutting out and it was super frustrating. I mean to me it was really frustrating, but also that was.

THERAPIST: Sorry. Sorry to hear about that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Weird.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[1:01]

CLIENT: I think I do want to do therapy once a week for…like try that for a month or two.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I guess…I just feel so exhausted. Like I was thinking about it, virtually, like ways in which therapy can be like not [inaudible – 01:25] but like difficult and I was just like, oh yes. That’s the thing I feel. I don’t know like, we keeping Tuesdays be okay?

THERAPIST: Yeah. We can do it any which way you want.

CLIENT: Okay. I think I’d like to do it that way.

THERAPIST: Okay. Think about it.

CLIENT: Yeah, I was kind of…I was…this weekend I was at; when they started switching…this one’s called Reader [inaudible – 02:12]. It’s actually entirely booked based. So they’re like do not acknowledge the existence of…

THERAPIST: Kind of like a movie?

CLIENT: Movies, TV. Comics are barely acknowledged, which is weird.

THERAPIST: [inaudible – 02:28] printed words here.

CLIENT: Yes. Or e-books. But actually mostly are [inaudible – 02:35]. I never write…you know, things happen, like I mentioned, or something and…so you see the requirement that you had to have published something within the Sci-Fi Fantasy genre in order to speak on a panel which, you know, artificially limits the pool to only, to a certain number of people. And it had to be a proper location like this whole thing had to be… for this year they changed that, and so it was speaking on two panels. And one of them I was pretty much terrified of. And it wasn’t the…the topic of discussion was sort of like I get a statement which was someone wrote a blog post saying if you write a story and the world is entirely populated by white straight men, that’s not neutral; that is a political statement in and of itself. And I’m just like yeah, that’s true.

[04:03]

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: Yeah, and one of the people on the panel is this older Sci-Fi author. He’s like probably in his 70’s at this point. And he’s just known to be kind of a curmudgeon. And he’s famous and I’m not. And like the other panelists were like that’s a professor who also has two books published and someone who publishes a magazine, and this other guy who has like co-edited like in Anthology. I’m just like hey; I have opinions and thoughts. And I was really…I was really scared that James Morrow, who was the older author…

THERAPIST: Anybody ever heard of him?

CLIENT: You might have. He published this book that was, he [inaudible – 04:57], but one of them is God’s Only Begotten Daughter in which like [inaudible – 05:05]. So there’s like this Jewish guy, like I’ll have a baby and so like diversion birth is like artificial insemination and like she’s the second coming. And so it’s kind of interesting in that you just like alright, so how would that progress? And you just…you know like theologically what people think about like what would happen when Christ is reborn or whatever. He’s just like do do do. I’m doing that but it’s a girl. And it was controversial. [inaudible – 05:47].

[05:50]

But he’s like okay, let’s do, and he’s like yeah. How’s gravitas? Or like people care about his events a lot and I was just really scared that he was…and he’s known for being a curmudgeon and doing the like devil’s advocate thing. And I was really worried he was going to do that. [Silence.]

I was even more worried about it than I realized because after the panel and like my adrenaline crashed. Like I lay in bed for hours and was like what even happened. The moderator of the panel was a black woman named Ariana who is a [inaudible – 06:32] professor and wrote energy books and is professor today. And so I sort of leaned over to her and I was like Ariana, I’m worried that I might kill someone on this panel. She was like, yeah, I have that concern too. So we’ll just try to [inaudible – 06:59]. I’m like okay. And actually, he didn’t really say anything. He did not pretty much…he…it was weird. It was like he’s seeing us and we can see what he’s doing.

At first I thought he was like taking notes for like [inaudible – 07:12] later. He didn’t seem to be. At one point I looked over and he was filling in like the reader, the convention customer satisfaction survey. I was like you douche. And I even started out my intro by saying I really liked your book, God’s Only Forgotten Daughter. I thought it was amazing. And he’s going, but mostly I was like…like I was really scared of him. I was really feeling like there’s a lot, the curmudgeon gets a lot of authors who are at this point kind of cranky or white guys in their 70s who have like some entrenched opinions that like I hate. Like I strongly support. And like, you know, we were in the biggest conference hall and it was packed and I was just kind of like oh my God, what the fuck. We really don’t want to be attacked from the audience and like I can see; it’s kind of like I can see who might. Like I see you, I think, and…

[08:43]

Also, I come well prepared. I take some notes. And what was frustrated is we didn’t; like I was ready to like throw down, but we never really got a chance to. So I was kind of like, but I have a lot; I have some things to, you know.

THERAPIST: On the panel?

CLIENT: Yeah, like I had read; I had this [inaudible – 09:10]. It was a book about the straight…he’s not [inaudible – 09:15] history of heterosexuality, which was heterosexuality was kind of invented as a word. And then I had like another thing; a quote from this author. I was like totally ready and I don’t know. Like we talked about some things, but like I felt we didn’t really…like I talked about how I was so frustrated with that people were like, oh yeah. That TV show has a magic talking dragon, but it’s totally unrealistic; that [inaudible – 09:52].

There’s this crappy BBC show called Merlin which has a magic talking dragon and Merlin, at age of 16, and one of his friends is a very light skinned; is a light skinned [inaudible – 10:07].

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And people are…

THERAPIST: Is someone [inaudible – 10:10]

CLIENT: Right, the people are constantly complaining about it. There’s a magic talking dragon under Camelot. It’s like guys. I know we need to slow down. And also there are like 40 other gazillion acronyms and most of them are dragons.

And so what also kind of ended up happening is from the panel, I ended up being like a very [inaudible – 10:45] by accident. Like I wasn’t really; that’s not really where I was thinking I was going. Because the first panel was more, I thought, of definitely race and gender. And another panel I was on, it was talking about books that use super natural features like ware wolves and vampires as a metaphor for characters. I’m like coming out as a vampire.

THERAPIST: Right.

[11:15]

CLIENT: So at the end of the first panel, those kind of came out like race and gender. Someone did this thing which I both hate and it said to be in the panel that you shouldn’t do which is I was like look, here’s the deal. None of us can tell you that book is wrong. That book is right. Like people…like someone brought up Aaliyah. You know it’s funny because he’s this guy and he’s like, you know, the book with Aaliyah is really good. But for some strange reason, a lot of my female acquaintances don’t want to read it. And he said I don’t understand why because it’s like really good and it gives you insight in the mind of this monster, blah, blah, blah.

Someone else was like, yeah, and you like, you know; it’s an amazing view in to this warlock. And I’m like I think they don’t want to read it because they already know. That like a seemingly nice person, a seemingly nice guy can molest girls. Like…

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: This is true. But also like I was trying to say, like I think that, but certainly I cannot, as a black person or as a woman, say well, Alida has an exception from its misogyny or whatever because I had said so. People always stand up and say, well there is this book, there is this thing and people say it’s really racist, but I don’t think it is. What do you think? Like is it?

THERAPIST: Exactly.

[13:00]

CLIENT: They don’t really ask what you think.

THERAPIST: There is a definitive as though there is a different opinion and your point is there is a second point.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like if they [inaudible – 13:11] you, you can make an argument for why you think it’s, you know, certain [inaudible – 13:16].

CLIENT: Yeah, but I can’t say.

THERAPIST: It’s not like, you’re a black person, so is this racist or what?

CLIENT: I kind of say, you know, on behalf of the black community, I declare this book…

THERAPIST: Officially.

CLIENT: Yeah. People always want that. And so at the end, after the question, an interesting, the water is boarding towards the [inaudible – 13:42] and the white guy and [inaudible – 13:44] to the question; the last question of the panel [inaudible – 13:50]. Whatever. And so he was talking about a book I have not read and he said this author gets criticized because in his far future there is no homophobia and there really because it’s just not an issue and like no one mentions that they’re gay or lesbian or whatever because it’s in the far future. And just like, you know, homophobia and all problems; they don’t care. It’s just this thing and he gets criticized for that. And I think that is wrong because he is not writing homophobic things.

[14:32]

And then he was like, “And do you not agree that this author should be forgiven for whatever?” Right. And I grabbed the mic and was really angry about it for a variety of reasons. I’m just like “No. My opinion is that if you, whenever you write a book in which you eliminate a certain type of character, you eliminated that like you’re saying that in the future we’ve eliminated; basically by not having any queer characters, you’re essentially saying that you’ve eliminated them. Like we made them disappear somehow magically.”

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And like if the straight people have a sexual orientation because they have romances, but mysterically no one would ever has the same gender romance, then you actually have [inaudible – 15:29]. And if there are ways to write about that that could be interesting, but that’s not it and I find it really offensive. And I find it even more offensive when people are like but I didn’t say anything homophobic. But in the future everything will be awesome and besides, you’ve eliminated homophobia anyway. The takeaway is part of the narrative and it’s always someone straight saying this.

And so I was like really angry about it. I was like you moron. And we ended on my angry rant about like why did you just eliminate people. I think this is horrible and [inaudible – 16:15]

[16:15]

And I just…you can say that about like people of color, which wasn’t ready to be like, fuck you, I’m a really angry queer. Because usually I’m like I’m not that politically radical among queer people I know. So I’m like, oh, please I’m just…in my head I know angry lesbian separatists. I know people who do all these things and are crazy radicals, and [inaudible – 16:48]. But I’m like boring. And I’m like, okay, it’s actually radical for you to think of having gay characters.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: There’s another panel; the panel about [inaudible – 17:06] features, one person who is straight had suggested it and one of the things he had said was like…

THERAPIST: Had suggested?

CLIENT: A panel talking about how…

THERAPIST: Suggested a panel. Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah, to help out like career people or coded.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I asked him like where are you going with this? And like what happened? And he was like kind of talking and then he ends with oh, and here’s the obvious like diamonds, rituals that happened during dating and sex. I was like what? No.

THERAPIST: Like in queer people in particular?

CLIENT: Queer people. He was like well ware wolves in fantasy books often engage just like that the alpha wolves and the beta wolves.

THERAPIST: I see.

[17:59]

CLIENT: And so obviously gay and lesbian people also do that.

THERAPIST: Oh, got you.

CLIENT: And I was just like, no they don’t. I mean they might.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But what? Like they can do [inaudible – 18:13] and straight people can do that. And I’m just like hopefully you’re really straight. And I did a whole bunch of background reading for it and then no one else really had, so that was awkward. I’m like I have all these notes. I read; I skimmed five horrible books for this panel. I hate all of you. And so this person had jumped on the panel, whatever.

THERAPIST: A different person?

CLIENT: The guy who suggested it…

THERAPIST: Oh okay.

CLIENT: …was asked to be on the panel. He said yes.

THERAPIST: Gotcha. What’s his first name?

CLIENT: Jude. Sorry; his name is Jude. It’s really weird. [inaudible – 18:51] Jones which is his full name. So it’ll be less weird for me. Jude Jones was like yeah; so he’s a straight guy. He’s [inaudible – 19:06] and two of his partners are queer people. So he has transitively like; he feels like he is transitively queer.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I’m like you’re not though. You’re straight. And so we’re doing intros and he was like blah, blah, blah. I spent over 15 years doing queer community activism. I’m like, no. You’ve gone to Pride with your girlfriend and your other girlfriend for 15 years. That’s not the same.

THERAPIST: Right.

[19:40]

CLIENT: I’m like I know…if you were [inaudible – 19:45] so like there’s a lesbian who turned out to be an assimilation lesbian, what are you going to do? Like if gay people are just nice and normal, then straight people would hear us right as long as we don’t look weird and crazy and freaky.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And so like every year at Pride, someone wanted to say drag queens can’t march, kinky people can’t march.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: She’s like interesting.

THERAPIST: HRC?

CLIENT: HRC is even [inaudible – 20:21] and they’re very much like we will present a very nice anti…

THERAPIST: An anti [inaudible – 20:30]

CLIENT: Yeah, they’re very…I noticed at one point when they were doing like a piece of legislation, they dropped transgender from the legislation to try to get it through and I…and this woman who I think – no, she never said her sexual orientation – based on what she was saying, I think she’s straight, which is not necessarily a problem. But like the theory I had which I want to talk about which was is that when straight writers are talking about like where our roles as vampires as coded queer people, they don’t know what they’re talking about, but they’re not definitely here with gay people.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Or gay and gayness, or gay culture, or…

[21:19]

THERAPIST: A straight panelist talking about straight writers talking about coded story or writing coded stories about, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I’m like it’s like you’re talking about a metaphor you ever heard someone talking about. Or if you’re writing a metaphor using like…and like in particular there’s the [inaudible – 21:40]; the vampire was kind of out and like the language they use is like they came out.

THERAPIST: Pretty referential.

CLIENT: Yeah, it’s like you get out of the coffin. Really. And there’s this whole thing where like they’re presenting a sanitized version of vampirism and that’s when people don’t want to.

THERAPIST: You invented that kind of show.

CLIENT: Yeah, in the show. And I was like the thing with that show is the vampires came out as being vampires. Most of the vampires have awesome lives because they’re rich and powerful and some are immortal. They don’t really suffer repercussions for being vampires. And they gain acceptance within like a year. And I’m like so that does not happen in actuality to people who come out except for like [inaudible – 22:36]. And also like there’s a long history of work and like you know, like it took a while to get discoded. And like even then, you know, and but the other panelists didn’t…again, I don’t know. I don’t know if they didn’t know what I was talking about, or if they were…I was just kind of like talking and I mean like why don’t you know these things?

[23:08]

Are you both…? Are you Jude Jones and you, other lady, are you both straight? Because I think you both are. When you were over here, she didn’t want to talk about these books that no one has ever heard of or read, which I thought was not very helpful. And one of them, the vampires and ware wolves, there two groups, especially of the HRC groups want to be assimilation. And in the series as the villain who says no we shouldn’t assimilate; we shouldn’t hide who we are. And she was like, yes; this horrible person is trying to destroy.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I’m just kind of like, oh; well that’s…I’m uncomfortable with that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And it was very…that was like in the audience are friends of mine who are, you know, gay and lesbian and trans, and like other things. And people I don’t know. And I’m just looking at them and I’m like, I’m sorry; I don’t know what’s happening. Like what?

And I mean it’s like, on the panel, on the [inaudible – 24:23] it’s like. And I think I ended with an angry rant about gay people again.

I just never am the angry gay person. It was really weird to be like the angry gay person. Not all weekend, but like for a chunk of it.

THERAPIST: I wonder if focusing on being the angry gay person and this sort of, I guess, uneasiness and peculiarity of that role for you, is it easier than moving on from stuff that was pissing you off. Like on the panel, on the last panel that you mentioned.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean I knew that I really wasn’t interested or up for like having a discussion about…and end up about racism. And after Saturday night, I’m really really really not interested in having this discussion doing it for like [inaudible – 26:31]. And yeah, like it kind of was a way to kind of I don’t know; I guess express [inaudible – 26:47]. I thought well, I guess, I felt safer. Yeah [inaudible – 27:03].

[27:12]

I mean the other thing that it did which I don’t think I almost did, but I don’t know; I did was I erased myself on my original panel. I was like you know, you’re a [inaudible – 27:28] and all of them, I find, like I am a [inaudible – 27:34] and that’s part of why I was interested in this panel. And which I wanted to say, in part, because people very rarely greet me as a queer person. Like I [inaudible – 27:52] this whole time which is annoying; whatever. And I was feeling like; I don’t know. It was kind of one of those days of like if I was a baby; if I was like an 18-year old…if I was 18-year old me that said that, one of the things I would like to know is that I would like to know that there is someone on the panel who is…who looks like me and is telling me that she’s not straight; that she’s queer. That would be awesome.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, I guess that like it was a nice moment on the first panel when you could whisper to the professor, I might tell somebody on this panel and she said yeah, maybe, yeah; we’re sorry about that too, or something like that.

CLIENT: Yeah, like [inaudible – 28:46] same sex person.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And definitely [inaudible – 28:51] to not do that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you feel like if it was someone there you could loop it that way or you could, you know, help.

CLIENT: Yeah, very much so.

THERAPIST: And you were missing that on the other…

[29:10]

CLIENT: Yeah, and I thought it would be the other way. Like I had anticipated if y’all or queer people being like goddamn it, it’s annoying when this happens. Or I may have talked about it with Ashby and others from my mind about like when authors code characters as being gay.

THERAPIST: [inaudible – 29:40] horrible after another creepy [inaudible – 29:47].

CLIENT: It’s an awkward question to ask someone, but I’m like one person might have been a lesbian who was very [inaudible – 29:58] maybe. Or she works for a lesbian [inaudible – 30:02] like I’m clear because she didn’t say.

And like I was kind of like Googling and I’m like you don’t actually say like; you say that you study some gay things or has some interest in them, but yeah like I was expecting a lot of like, yeah; let’s talk about this. Let’s talk about like a [inaudible – 30:33] yesterday and like, and [inaudible – 30:35] was like totally. It was funny because county was like Karen, if you don’t talk about this; [inaudible – 30:41] do this for 20 minutes because I hate nasty bugs.

So like we had already had a very quick conversation about it. So I’m like yes, mark that. And I was like straight people. Dammit! Yeah, this must be like…it wasn’t; it was kind of like I see some of my people in the audience, but they’re not up here with me. I was the moderator; if I was the moderator, I would just grab some people.

THERAPIST: Oh really?

CLIENT: Yeah, because I’ve done that before. You said this woman, I was like Jude Jones, I would not pull you out of the audience to be on this panel because I know you proposed it but you’re a straight white dude and I don’t care and I would like to pick that like south Asian hot lesbian or this like baby little gender queer person who is just like; like unformed queer person. I’m like look at you. You can talk about what your…he mentioned writing a story that was basically a commune; a [inaudible – 32:05] you didn’t want engage in hierarchical pack order etc. I’m like your writing is great. You’re writing about gender queer. It was great [inaudible – 32:20].

[32:26]

There’s something about baby queers. That’s always like, aww. Look at you; you just discovered that. Oh okay.

THERAPIST: Like? I’m sorry. I missed again.

CLIENT: It’s hard to explain. So it’s like…I guess what it is, is sometimes like I’ll be on campus or I’ll see someone and I’m like I think he just figured out that you’re a lesbian.

THERAPIST: That part, I can imagine this sort of like baby queer thing where it’s like, oh.

CLIENT: Like to me, I’m always like…I always just want to give them a hug and then be like, let’s talk about gay stuff more.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I know that you just figured this out, but I’ve been doing this for a while. Let’s not reinvent the wheel again.

THERAPIST: That part, I think I sort of got. That commune.

CLIENT: Oh, it’s just like like lesbians in their early 20’s come like to do…

THERAPIST: That commune thing?

CLIENT: They just like, yeah; [inaudible – 33:45]. They really do. And like anarchists and like little; they’re like little severe about politics. You have the Occupy people. They love the [inaudible – 34:02]. A commune or a co-op. Like they’re on it.

THERAPIST: Okay. I can see why you’d get that.

CLIENT: And it just killed me that you’re basically like, hey, you know what? I’m going to write about this fantasy that, you know, about commune and like…

THERAPIST: Hierarchal relationships and I get [inaudible – 34:24] having a proto interest in all that stuff.

CLIENT: Like, because like she just discovered it and it was so amazing. And also when she was talking about it, I could tell none of the panelists had no idea where she was coming from. And I’m like, oh honey. She was like I exchanged information with her, or tried to, so that I [inaudible – 34:47] later.

THERAPIST: They’re like me. They don’t get it either. [inaudible – 34:53]

CLIENT: Yeah, and like, you know, you really…you might feel a little isolated; or maybe not. Maybe like me being protective, but like, I don’t know. I’ll buy you some for a drink off or something.

[35:18]

So yeah, I mean I guess I’ve already experienced many times people perceiving me as a very angry black woman and I’m like I’m really not. And [inaudible – 35:29] I’m actually not an angry radical queer. I’m really quaint. I’m not just that. You have not [inaudible – 35:42] which part of the thing was the conventional [inaudible – 35:49] he’s trying to change is to increase the participation and anger people and put people [inaudible – 35:57]. So in my head I’m also thinking look out old dude. The kids are going to come on your lawn. And he can’t stop that. I don’t know.

It was just like; it was a…because specially…

THERAPIST: That sounds pretty stressful.

CLIENT: It was and it was like…

THERAPIST: And like you say; not in the way you affected really at all. Not at all, but not in the way you [inaudible – 36:31].

CLIENT: Yeah. And I don’t know. Like yeah; it was weird. And also, yeah, it was just one moment I didn’t expect and I was just having this moment of like [inaudible – 36:52] I’m queer from the panel. Is I’ve had the experience of like being at queer events; having people [inaudible – 37:01] straight friend and it’s really frustrating.

So I was kind of feeling a load of that too at times where I’m like, you know. I don’t know. I think it was this like a load of like…I want to go hang out with the gay mafia. But the gay mafia doesn’t know because I’m not like flash gay obvious. I didn’t feel like it. Like I could have just [inaudible – 37:44] interesting point of view. Then again I was like I don’t care. I just want to wear dresses and [inaudible – 37:49] and…

[37:54]

And also I ran in to like someone who really really is like [inaudible – 38:07]. So he’s like a vice…he’s a lawyer and a vice president at Siemens’. And he met his husband at like something like Manchester Law School gay something. They have a lot of like [inaudible – 38:25]. And we were talking – he was a very nice guy – but the guys I was talking and I had dinner with him and another friend. I was just like wow; your life is really different from mine and you’re really buffered from stuff. And he was mentioning how I [inaudible – 38:50] ever gave like; like no one ever like…he didn’t act like he’d ever been like negatively; had negative experiences for being a gay man. That was kind of like you’re also high up in the…

THERAPIST: Yeah, like power and money will do that for you kind of thing.

CLIENT: Yeah, power, money, Manchester Law School, like…and then he also mentioned a thing which I thought was really creepy which was [inaudible – 39:21] DNA. It is his personal belief that in like X years they will find the gay gene in women and all gay people.

THERAPIST: This is what Watsons believe?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Whoa.

CLIENT: And I’m just going that is terrifying and yet you, sir, don’t seem to totally get that. Like you find it offensive, but you don’t totally seem to get that you would never [inaudible – 40:01]. I’m a big gay homosexual.

THERAPIST: I’m sorry. I’m a little confused.

CLIENT: So the lawyer never said to Watson…

THERAPIST: So he knew Watson.

CLIENT: Hew knew Watson.

THERAPIST: Oh, I thought that was something you heard about.

CLIENT: No, no, no.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: They met at some fancy like Siemens’ thing.

THERAPIST: Okay, got it. Siemens’ is like a life science company. It’s like a tech company or something.

[40:21]

CLIENT: Yeah. They have a lot of money.

THERAPIST: Okay, whatever. Alright, so what if he met Watson?

CLIENT: And this had come out in some conversation.

THERAPIST: Okay, now I’m clear on the why it would have…yeah.

CLIENT: And I was like that actually is a pretty…

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They said well he didn’t know and he just went…I’m like, but dude, like he wants to eliminate gay people. He thinks you’re a medical…like…

THERAPIST: Right. A gay disorder.

CLIENT: Yeah. He wants to [inaudible – 40:59].

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And he’s going to think that would never happen, but like old guy like whatever, whatever. And I’m thinking no; like that’s a thing, and that’s really serious. And also I’m telling you that like everyone’s cool with you being gay, but apparently…

THERAPIST: Not so much.

CLIENT: Everyone left out the gay role, that’s what. I’m like you think [inaudible – 41:30]. She’s like he doesn’t like say publicly, but like if you know him…if you speak to him privately this is a thing he would say.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean it was not [inaudible – 41:41]. You thought it was a little private intimate setting.

CLIENT: Yeah, it was like…

THERAPIST: That’s what she said.

CLIENT: Yeah. [inaudible – 41:51].

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And like Ashby and I pay a certain amount of money in rent and above over a month [inaudible – 42:06].

THERAPIST: [inaudible – 42:07] what?

CLIENT: In a bubble.

THERAPIST: Oh, a bubble.

CLIENT: Like one of the reasons that I lived in a square for so long is I’m like gay people; yeah. And then like I…I’m pretty sure that conversation went you avoid thinking about like…and then there are always people who would like to not be me. And with Roger; I really don’t like…and a part of like this…a part of the two panels was the like right…you think that gay people are like really different. Like they difference between being gay and straight and the difference between a vampire and a person. And we’re all a person. And that’s really intense and fucked up and I’m never really sure where to go with that because there isn’t really anywhere to go with that.

[43:14]

If you ask someone to look at that, [inaudible – 43:16]. But…[silence.].

THERAPIST: Yeah, but a point that [inaudible – 43:36] to mention.

CLIENT: Yeah, and then today I went to an all staff meeting where [inaudible – 43:49].

THERAPIST: [inaudible – 43:49].

CLIENT: Yeah. And also I’m like [inaudible – 43:54] don’t exist. Gay people do. Yeah. And like that’s one of the [inaudible – 44:04] things that I like, but you don’t know.

And then at work, all staff [inaudible – 44:14] with like a 12 page like list of mission statements of goals and everything. And so we were talking about it. And it was boring. And I have like, you know, a question. And you know one of the things was that all of these concepts and missions and visions of what they wanted to do and like nowhere in here do you mention diversity. And I was like you know like that could be a thing and also last year the Manchester Gay and Lesbian Alumni raise funding to endow, whichever, [inaudible – 44:57] so that…

THERAPIST: [inaudible – 44:58].

CLIENT: They endowed a chair for someone to do gay and lesbian things.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And that person might have some special [inaudible – 45:10] and I also was like [inaudible – 45:14] get what I said or are you just being defensive? Because there’s a lot of no…why are you doing that? I can walk you over to the gay and lesbian section. I’m like well, but. There’s a lot of like but. Well I mean within our, you know, kind of like; like this whole thing. I’m like seriously guys. You literally don’t. And I don’t know. As I was walking over here, that was really another kind of thing in my head. And like I’m the crazy agitator in the room and I’m not actually saying anything like…

THERAPIST: Alright. We’ll stop there.

CLIENT: Yeah. And also I feel like people are just putting diversity in their mission statements. Again, our own mission statement is like we have a diverse [inaudible – 46:37]. And…

THERAPIST: We’ll stop. I’ll see you next Tuesday.

CLIENT: Okay. Next Tuesday.

THERAPIST: Okay.

END TRANSCRIPT