TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: All right, well... Did you have a nice break?

THERAPIST: I did, thank you.

CLIENT: Good. (sighs)

THERAPIST: I got your text.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah, yeah. So... Next Friday I’m actually working. (chuckles) I’m not sure what days you...

THERAPIST: I’m here Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday. (client affirms) Because it’s easier to say, “I’m not here on Thursdays.” (both chuckle)

CLIENT: That’s what I thought it might be. Okay, so maybe, we can schedule something for... possibly Wednesday.

THERAPIST: (pause) So Wednesday the 30th, I have a 2:30.

CLIENT: Um... Sorry.

THERAPIST: Or we could do... (client affirms) Monday the 5th, I have a 9:30, if you’d prefer that.

CLIENT: No, the Wednesday is fine. (therapist affirms) The 30th... at 2:30, you said? (therapist affirms) (pause) So, yeah. A week ago, I was... enjoying an earthquake in Arizona, from the 11th floor of a hotel room. That was... unlike anything... [00:01:38]

THERAPIST: Enjoying, you said? (chuckles) Experiencing?

CLIENT: Experiencing. Yeah, well, you know, I can say... I’ve had that and... it was insane. I mean it was, the whole building was rocking back and forth, you couldn’t even walk without holding onto something. It was just... moving so quickly. It lasted for a minute. Plaster was falling off the walls onto the stairs, going down in bare feet.

THERAPIST: Wow! That sounds scary!

CLIENT: It was very scary. I didn’t think I was actually going to live. And I don’t say that lightly. I mean, I seriously... going down the stairs and two floors below, the plaster slid off the wall, and crashed onto the stairs, somebody screamed. I didn’t know what it was, and so I thought like, floors were collapsing. (therapist affirms) (pause) Yeah, it was just... [00:02:40]

THERAPIST: Were you alone? I mean, obviously, you were with other people, but were you...?

CLIENT: No, Julie was there with me. This was her second one, actually. She had been in one in ‘93. It was... worse, 8.5. Anyway, it was... quite an event, so... That... in addition to the idea that that week was going to be, for me, like this kind of (chuckles) rebirth... really became more real. (chuckles) (pause) And I sent off the letter to my Dad the day... Monday, the day we left. It was nine pages, in the end and... (pause) I got an e-mail from him on Thursday, saying he had received it. (pause) He was... needs a few days to respond, because he’s still taking in all the information, to re-read it and he would reply from Michigan. (pause) Didn’t you go to Michigan or something? [00:04:06]

THERAPIST: I went to Michigan University.

CLIENT: Yeah, so he lives in...

THERAPIST: I wondered; you were looking around like, “Is he hearing voices?” Is like, new, that I need to...? (chuckles)

CLIENT: It’s like the earthquake, yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) crooked (ph) diplomas.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so he drove back with his wife, and they arrived two days ago, Wednesday. So... I haven’t gotten anything yet, and didn’t suspect I would this quickly. So... that’s kind of where it sits.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, I mean, he’s doing that you asked, right?

CLIENT: Absolutely. I mean, I’m not surprised.

THERAPIST: Taking his time to absorb, as you wanted him to. I mean, so much thought and time and (client affirms) energy went into the letter. [00:05:06]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. You know, I... for a few moments... I don’t know, I think it was before I knew he had received it, I was feeling kind of bad like, you know, “Was it really necessary to put some of those things in there?” And (sighs), you know, I think that’s my first inclination normally, is to just, you know, has, with regard to this, has been just kind of like, “Well... you haven’t even been letting him feel bad about it,” or whatever. But...

And then I got to thinking, you know (sighs)... this is something that I couldn’t even share with my siblings, because of shame. I didn’t ask for that. That inability to feel like I can open up or talk to people in my own family about this... is... is... you know, it’s just not right. [00:06:13]

THERAPIST: It’s been crippling.

CLIENT: It is. I has been. So I thought, “Well, you know what? For him to feel bad for a week, two weeks, whatever it is, a month... it pales in comparison to what, the handicap I’ve lived with for so long,” so... That was... that. And... So, yeah. I mean, I think in some ways... I do feel like it’s a weight lifted off of me, and I don’t expect to really enjoy the fruits of that until I hear his response, when that comes in. But... at the same time, it’s no longer me... holding back emotions from him, whether it be love or anger. [00:07:19]

THERAPIST: You’ve let yourself be honest.

CLIENT: Yeah, and you know, the past few years I’ve kind of felt somewhat distanced. I mean, I have distanced myself in some ways from him, so... (pause) And I didn’t enjoy that. (pause) So... yeah. I mean, I think... (chuckles)

(pause) You know, I’ve been sick, from Arizona, it’s this GI problem. You know, I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced it, but when you’re sick or you have the flu and you have a cough or cold, whatever; after a while, you just get so tired of being sick, that you say, “Okay, you know what? I’m not sick anymore! I’m just going to start acting like I’m not sick, because this is, you know... burdensome,” you know? It’s just... [00:08:26]

You start... getting up in the morning and you, you know, shower, you do everything as if you were not sick. It kind of dawned on me that that is... a likely... way to approach this. You know, I can suffer from actual illness for a while, but I can’t just... suffer with it forever, and for me to just... (pause) act the part of a normal person, a healthy person.

THERAPIST: I think there are some ways in which our... you do make the parallel between physical sickness and mental sickness, right? There are, you know, when you’re sick, you typically, you know, you have no appetite, you don’t eat. There is a point at which that is actually may be helpful. You know, if you’re vomiting all the time, eating is not really a great choice. (client affirms) But then there are a point at which, if you don’t start eating, you won’t get better. (client affirms) You know, your body needs energy and fuel, and you feel horrible when you haven’t eaten, and your blood sugar is low, and you’re shaky and weak and dizzy, right? That’s not good either. (client affirms) [00:09:51]

So there is a point at which the caretaking behavior actually becomes reinforcing of the illness or symptoms. The illness may actually have progressed and you’re fine (client affirms), but you feel weak and dizzy, and you don’t want to get out of bed, because you haven’t eaten for three days. (client affirms) And I think that, with depression and anxiety, it’s very similar. There are some behaviors that you have because you feel bad. You isolate, perhaps. Maybe you don’t get out of bed and shower and get dressed. They’re protective in a way, but they’re also reinforcing. Being able to discern when it’s useful to actually push yourself to get up, to shower, to eat, to go out and exercise, to go talk to somebody; when that’s actually helpful, and it’s actually part of the healing process, and you don’t need to be... doing kind of the sick behavior.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I know that sometimes it doesn’t work. (chuckles) [00:10:45]

THERAPIST: Yeah. And then there are times when you realized, “No, actually I do need to still be in bed.” (client affirms) Maybe it’s a chicken soup day.

CLIENT: Yeah. I just, you know, “It’s good to be outside, but I have to go back in.” But...

THERAPIST: Yeah, being able to question, and then try it out and figure out, discern, “Is this, am I helping myself or am I hurting myself?” (client affirms) Because sometimes the same behavior can be both.

CLIENT: Yeah. And it’s interesting how, just a mind shift can make it clear. (therapist affirms) Or just asking the question and trying it out. So... (sighs) Yeah, I guess... (pause) I’m not sure if this is just telling myself this, or if I’m actually believing it, but I think it’s true that... I don’t need to walk around as this victim. Not so much that I’ve felt sorry for myself, but I think I kind of acted as a leper, you know. I just, “Don’t touch me, I’m unworthy, I’m...,” you know... And (sighs) [00:12:03]

(pause) You know, sure I’m sure I felt sorry for myself at times, but... I also think the opposite, the... (chuckles) I don’t know if it’s being cautious for other people’s sake, you know, to be like, you know, “Don’t waste your time with me, because I’m not worth it,” blah blah blah. I think... that I don’t need to live with that anymore, I don’t need to... act as if I’m... irreparable or unredeemable and... or just simply unredeemed... because... [00:13:05]

(pause) You know, at this point in my life, I’m just tired of being sick, “sick.” (pause) At the same time, I still feel like I am vulnerable to past behaviors, past ruts (sighs), but I know that... falling into an old pattern isn’t the worst thing in the world. I think you’ve taught me that. (pause) But I think I... it’s just been a challenge for me to actually build in... structures, and stick with them. [00:14:07]

THERAPIST: And keep them there. (client affirms) (pause) What’s been the most stable structure? Of the things you’ve put in place, what’s stuck and most consistent?

CLIENT: I think going to the gym (chuckles), which I haven’t been in two weeks, because I’ve been out of town and I’ve been sick. But...

THERAPIST: (chuckles) But that’s, those are realistic...

CLIENT: ...other than that, (inaudible), you know, I feel bad about that.

THERAPIST: No, those are realistic barriers. (client affirms) I mean, being in another country sort of makes going to your gym out of the question. (chuckles)

CLIENT: Exactly. Yeah, plus if you’re like, walking up and checking out pyramids.

THERAPIST: (affirms) That counts as exercise. [00:15:02]

CLIENT: At an altitude of, you know, mile high.

THERAPIST: Exercise counts in places other than a gym.

CLIENT: Yeah, so, you know, that, when I feel like, okay... (pause) But I don’t know. I... Part of me says, “Well, you know, how can you expect to have structure as something consistent, regularly, you know? Falling into old behaviors, old patterns. You just need to keep trying.” And (sighs), you know, like going to the gym or like being well, those things, whatever, getting enough sleep... (sighs) For whatever reason, I don’t value them very much, you know. I know they’re good for me, I know they are. I know (sighs) that I’m... [00:16:02]

THERAPIST: You don’t value them, or you don’t value you enough to do them?

CLIENT: Uh, well... I think it’s kind of one and the same, to me, because these... it’s like, these things are me, you know. I mean, I’m not defined by them, but at the same time, they nurture me, you know.

(pause) I recorded a song before I left town. That was really successful and that... you know, that carried me a long way. (pause) I don’t know. I guess just, it’s just life, you know? I’m not always going to be motivated to do the work that I want to do or do the things that I know are good for me, so... what else am I supposed to say?

THERAPIST: Yeah, well, I think, and there is a difference between “always” and “consistent.” (client affirms) So, I mean, having a structure in place does not necessarily mean that you have to do it every single day. [00:17:07]

CLIENT: Yeah, and I mean, it’s...

THERAPIST: It means it has to be the, that having it there is the baseline, but the baseline is not 100%. (client affirms) It can’t be, because nobody, you can’t expect perfection.

CLIENT: Yeah, I know, but... there is something in there, and I’m just kind of grazing it earlier, but I couldn’t quite... put my finger on it. Something about... having structure... as a... as a goal, and yet falling short of that goal. (pause) I’m not sure if I can put it into words. Falling short of that goal... is human and I shouldn’t get down on myself about that, but... (pause) I don’t know. It’s... (pause) I’m still tossing it around. [00:18:18]

THERAPIST: You shouldn’t feel... don’t feel bad about falling short, but...

CLIENT: Well, that’s just it. I can’t...

THERAPIST: What’s hanging there?

CLIENT: I can’t, yeah, it’s still kind of... batting about in my head, it’s like... (pause) I guess there are hints of, “Is the structure... for me?”

THERAPIST: Maybe structure is not a good goal?

CLIENT: God, I hope not! (chuckles) I’ve put so much stock in it!

THERAPIST: (chuckles) Well, I wonder if it needs to be framed differently? To put it in another, you know, sometimes it’s easier to look at examples outside your own life. So, for me, over vacation, I set a goal to run a certain number of miles. As the vacation wore on, I realized that, in order to achieve that goal, there were going to need to be some pretty extreme runs the last two days of vacation. [00:19:29]

As I looked at like, “Okay, so it was a good goal.” Part of why I set that goal is, you know, for me, running is something I don’t get to do as much as I want in my regular life, it’s time alone, you know. There are good, you know, it’s not punishment to pick a number. But, you know, as the days wore on, I said, “Well... I would have to make a choice. I could do that. It would be realistic, I mean, I could do that without hurting myself and make this number goal I’ve set. Or I could choose to do something else with the time.”

In the end, I chose to do something else with the time those mornings, and not hit the number that I had set for myself. I can look at that in two ways. I can look at it as failure. It was an absolutely achievable goal to run the number of miles I had set. That would have been doable for me. So, failed. Or, I could look at it and say, “There were a number of things that were important to me to experience over the course of that vacation.” What I did is I determined my priorities, and maybe that, that was success, because what I did was I chose very carefully how I wanted to spend the time. (client affirms) [00:20:37]

When you’re looking at the structure goal, you know, for you, “number of miles” is gym, going to bed at a reasonable hour and getting good sleep, eating healthfully. When you choose not to do one of those things, when you choose something to eat that maybe isn’t in your healthy list, but it’s something else; is that failure, or is it still a carefully chosen choice for honoring something else? Maybe sometimes, it is, and sometimes it’s not. Maybe sometimes going to the gym or deciding not to go to the gym, but to do something else is still a health-driven choice for you, or... is it failure?

CLIENT: (sighs) You know, something that... something that occurred to me when I was on vacation was, I had typed it out, because I... (pause) “It’s not the act of failing which is so deadly, it’s the penalty applied for failing.” I don’t know why a penalty, you know? [00:21:42]

THERAPIST: Yeah. What is the penalty? What would feeling guilty about not running my number do for me? It’s a guilt you give yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah. So, it’s not, you know, like what, it’s not like... you know, not running isn’t the thing that gets me, it’s feeling like I can never not fail, you know. The punishment for that is just... too much to bear.

THERAPIST: It ends up affecting way more than choosing not to (client affirms) go to the gym, eat that particular meal.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, it’s deadly. (pause) You know, as you were talking about, “Well, I could, there were a number of things that were important to me,” that, for me personally, it’s like, “Oh, this is just rationalizing my weakness,” or whatever and, you know. (pause) Maybe it’s the case, it’s probably true that, I know for me, I’ll speak for myself, that setting some sort of goal is a lot easier than actually trying to determine what’s a sensible goal. You know, it’s like, what does this actually mean that I have to do? (therapist affirms) I think the goals... for so often have either been unrealistic or unstated. Either way, they’re not going to be met! (chuckles) [00:23:16]

THERAPIST: Exactly.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: Yeah, secret goals are very hard to attain. (client affirms) And...

CLIENT: “Are we there yet? Okay?”

THERAPIST: They often, you know, having those unrealistic goals, or those unstated goals, they’re often one and the same. The reason you don’t state them is because some parts of you know that that’s not doable.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, or...

THERAPIST: Or doing it would require compromising so much else. (client affirms) It’s unlikely that you would do that.

CLIENT: Yeah, and the idea of having a goal... stated or not... is somehow... better than not having a goal. (chuckles) But I’m not sure that it is, because... again, the penalty for not reaching it... is pretty strong. [00:24:09]

(pause) (sighs) Oh, I’m not sure I told you this, something else about my dad. (pause) I think it arrived on Friday, after I got home, I think. He sent me a check for $5000, because I had this conversation with him. Did I tell you all of this? No. (therapist denies) (chuckles) I had a conversation with him earlier, I think I told you about that, as far as, you know, the state of my mental health, and things I’m working on. You know, he asked me if it’s something that I have to pay for out of pocket. I said, “Well, yeah. When I came back from Europe I could have taken up with someone else, but I didn’t want to start over and, you know...,” so on and so forth. [00:25:08]

So (sighs) he sent me a letter and a check, which really, you know, kind of messed with my resolve to send him my letter (chuckles), you know? And it said, you know, “This is probably a drop in the bucket compared to what you’ve had to pay over the years for your therapy, but... This is not a gift or a loan, it’s what you’d get when I die, as part of the family. So, just, you know, I did the same with Richard (sp) (my older brother who’s unemployed). And so when, at the end, just deduct what you have gotten in advance, and...” And that (sighs)... I got it on Friday, but I didn’t tell him I received it until... Saturday, Sunday. I just didn’t know what to say about it, you know? [00:26:11]

THERAPIST: What did you feel?

CLIENT: (pause0 Well, I felt like... (pause) I felt like it was justified, but I don’t think... he knew why it was justified, because of what I hadn’t shared with him yet, you know. All this shit that’s been going on with me could have been dealt with a long time ago... (pause) And... (pause) I don’t know, you know? I felt bad, I felt like, “Well, I shouldn’t send the letter now, because...” (pause) You know... maybe this was his way of saying that he feels responsible for it, but he didn’t say that. And so, at the top of the letter, I said, you know, I want you to know I appreciate your gift, or your, you know, the money you sent. I have to say I almost, you know, it made me think twice about sending this letter, but... it doesn’t change the fact that I need to tell you these things.” [00:27:30]

THERAPIST: There would still be a lot left unsaid.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And the fact that it could, the possibility that it could be unsaid, because of the check, you know, is kind of...

THERAPIST: Right. It’s not about the money.

CLIENT: No, it’s not, and you know...

THERAPIST: And the advance is thoughtful and shows that he’s, he, you know, he cares about you as a parent, and wants to do what he can to ease some of your burdens. But that does not show... I think the letter that you sent, you wanted to really be able to express and have him understand how, and why, and what the effects were, not just that there is a connection between parent and child.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. (pause) Yeah. (pause) So I don’t know. I... I haven’t deposited it yet, but (chuckles)... But it was something that was a development after I, after I saw you last, so... [00:28:50]

(pause) But I’ve been... I’ve been toying with the idea of calling him. (pause) But I don’t think I should. (pause) I think it would be unfair to him. (pause) Preempt things that he wants to say to me.

THERAPIST: It’s hard to wait to hear how he responds.

CLIENT: It’s hard to wait, but it’s also, I (sighs) (pause) I think it’s also a way for me to feel better, because I feel bad that he feels bad, and I want him to know that I don’t want him to feel bad. [00:29:55]

THERAPIST: You said so in your letter.

CLIENT: Yeah, but you’re right, I did. And so... it’s not my job...

THERAPIST: Trust that he’ll read the whole thing (client affirms), and hear that part.

CLIENT: And it’s not, it’s another attempt to control how he, you know, reacts to this.

THERAPIST: It’s an attempt to protect him. (client affirms) Just to try to spare some of his distress.

CLIENT: Yeah, or perceived, yeah. So I haven’t, and I’m... going to wait. (sighs) (pause) So that’s where I am. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: You’ve been through a lot in the past week, two weeks.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah.

THERAPIST: (pause) Have there been any sort of after effects of the earthquake for you, more panic attacks, or increased anxiety, or difficulty sleeping, that type of thing that can sometimes happen? [00:31:06]

CLIENT: No. Um, but you know, I was listening to (chuckles) an interview yesterday. Terry Gross was speaking with this photographer, Tyler somebody. He was a prize-winning photographer from the New York Times, who’s been in a lot of war zones. But he was, his recent award was for his... photography of the Kenyan Mall, where the Somali militants massacred a number of people. He was describing the scene and... how people had to just kind of hide, and pretend they were dead or just... You know, they were talking about the music that plays in the mall, and was still playing during the whole... and never stopped.

THERAPIST: It just keeps going. [00:32:08]

CLIENT: It keeps going. This woman, with her two children... singing along to the music for five hours afterward, because... they didn’t want to move, she didn’t know if she was going to be safe. And it’s one of those things that you, you know, you say, “Oh, yeah, I suppose that was still playing.” But it puts you there, and it makes you think about things like... school shootings here, or mall shootings here, that happen sometimes.

It put me back in that room, when... I was not sure what the best plan of action was. I didn’t know if I was going to survive, I didn’t know... how to protect myself. (pause) That earthquake came on so suddenly and... without warning... without even a thought that earthquakes happen in Arizona (chuckles) City, that it could happen... that it kind of catapulted me into this place where... I was afraid. I didn’t think I was going to live. And... (pause) there was no preparation, really, that could have helped me, and... you know, how do you prepare for someone who pulls out a gun in a shopping mall, you know? You just... it’s, you don’t expect it. [00:34:00]

So when I think about the sounds, and where I was, and what I was witnessing, and what I was feeling... it does kind of send a shiver through me. Hearing this guy talk yesterday about this... (pause) and I experiencing the fear with my wife... it seemed to me that, you know, being in a mall and experiencing something like that is not out of the question. (pause) I guess what I’m trying to say is... there are points in my life... that I... kind of peek in on... you know I... I want kind of this... grisly... vignette, I can put myself there, because I’m in that bathroom, hearing the building creak, seeing things fall down. It gives me a jolt. [00:35:19]

Another one is my mom’s dying and... and actually, when she died, you know, seeing her body there, or... putting myself in places where... I’ve had just... horrible news, you know? It’s this kind of... sadist or masochist, I’m not sure what it is. The thing that... it’s almost like pornography, you know? It’s like... or an accident on the road that you, you have to look. (pause) I don’t know. I guess I feel like I’m wandering in different directions here with this, but... but that experience... it’s only when I put myself there and remember the sounds. [00:36:26]

THERAPIST: It’s not happening... without will.

CLIENT: Exactly, exactly. And (sighs) (pause) I don’t know what the fascination is to do that, but... I’m not sure if I care.

THERAPIST: Well, it’s part of processing, and part of testing, right? So... the accident that everybody stops to look at... it’s normal, everybody stops to look.

CLIENT: Can I pause you one second? I’m sorry. It’s my doctor. (aside: Hello? (pause) Yes. (pause) Hi, thanks for calling back. (pause) Okay. Great. (pause) It is. (pause) I don’t drink alcohol. (chuckles) Okay. All right. I won’t start. Okay. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Bye.) I’m so desperate for these antibiotics! (both chuckle) I’m like... I did this lab stuff yesterday and I’m like, calling this morning. “Any results back?” “No, not yet.” So I called when I was waiting... I did not to wait until Monday to start using them. Please, please! So they’re sending them to my pharmacy. Anyway, I’m sorry. You were talking... [00:38:01]

THERAPIST: That’s okay. It’s normal to look, it’s part of processing, it’s part of... I think, testing yourself and going back and kind of... reimagining and re-experiencing these past events. I think, you know, that’s also a way of processing and taking stock of, “That was then, that’s how I felt...” And also comparing that to being able to come back to the now (client affirms).

I think what’s important is remembering to, you know, if the tendency is to go back and remember the distressing events, there are also probably enjoyable events, happy times, proud moments that you can also go and pinpoint. (client affirms) Those are part of the map of your life (client affirms).

When somebody is depressed, you’re more likely to seek out the things that are congruent with how you feel. (client affirms) That creates an imbalance, because those are not the only things (client affirms) that you’ve experienced. You know, we also stop to look at the fact that the trees have all started to blossom (client affirms), and making sure that you take a moment to balance. [00:39:09]

CLIENT: Yeah. No, you’re right. I (chuckles), it’s interesting as you’re talking, I’m thinking like, “Well, why do I grasp for the negative, the distressing, the painful, vivid...?” Because those are vivid (therapist affirms) they are powerful. I think there has definitely, has been an imbalance because... you know (sighs) whatever, graduating or whatever, pick a spot... Yeah, I guess there is a moment in Europe when I got the e-mail that said, you know, “You’ve won a award.” I remember that moment. It’s vivid. And... I guess it’s also a matter of collecting those and... accessing them, you know, because I don’t think I have as many of those, at least at ready access, as I do the disturbing moments.

THERAPIST: You’ve practiced the disturbing ones.

CLIENT: Yeah, I’m great at accessing them! (both chuckle) [00:40:10]

THERAPIST: And I think it’s also... sometimes it feels easier when you go back, and you remember a particularly positive moment to feel bereft that that’s not now, right? Because, well, great. You probably felt elated the first time you asked a girl out and she said yes. But since you’re not in that moment (you know, on the phone or in a high school hallway or wherever), it’s hard to give it credit that you felt really good right then. (client affirms) But practicing being able to go back and do that, or the first time you dove under water, and you probably felt really proud; or you hit a home run, or you got a basket. Those brief moments that are very significant, and gave you a really vivid picture and feeling (client affirms) being able to go back, practice feeling that, and then being okay with it. Yeah, all moments pass.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (pause) I think it will be a process... a deliberate process for me, because... as I said in my letter to my dad, I don’t have a lot of memories, good or bad, from... you know, my early years... (pause) And what I have, you know, I’m going to have to... [00:41:34]

THERAPIST: They don’t have to be from any particular time.

CLIENT: No, but I...

THERAPIST: You’ve had tons of experience. (chuckles)

CLIENT: True, but I would like to be able to at least... start remembering some, I mean, any of them, you know.

THERAPIST: Do you have pictures?

CLIENT: Somewhere... yeah. Yeah, I do.

THERAPIST: You’ve moved a lot. (chuckles)

CLIENT: Yeah. I’m not sure where they are, but they’re somewhere, yeah.

THERAPIST: That sometimes really helps to jog memories, being able to see pictures of the past.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Hmm (sighs)... (pause) So... yeah, to answer your question, no, I’m not having any anxiety over the earthquake, but it does give me pause to be in a very public situation that’s, the public is at danger, and I’m part of it. (pause) Yeah. (pause) Where did you go on vacation? [00:42:59]

THERAPIST: I’m going to keep that private.

CLIENT: All right. But you went some place?

THERAPIST: I did go someplace.

CLIENT: That’s good.

THERAPIST: There were no earthquakes that I knew of. (chuckles)

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (pause) The blooms are beautiful. Magnolias are just incredible and... I have noticed them.

THERAPIST: That’s a good excuse for being present.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (pause) It just needs to warm up, you know? So you can... I come back and it’s 50 degrees! Anyway... (pause) Yeah, I’m not sure what else to tie up. [00:44:02]

THERAPIST: I’m curious what you’re working on and writing.

CLIENT: Oh. So... I got this job a month and a half ago, doing this video shoot. I think I may have mentioned it. (therapist affirms) Well, I hadn’t heard anything from like... It’s a New York-based production company, and, you know, I’m offering this kind of a side shot, which I’ve never done before. (chuckles) And hoping that there is something there that they can use. I’m also responsible for putting all the memory cards from all the cameras into this hard drive that they gave me. It’s like... they didn’t give me a schedule, a time between shoots to do it. It’s like, 15 minutes and takes like, 25 minutes per card.

Anyway, so I hadn’t heard from them in a long time. So I get an e-mail last week, saying, “Are you available for two shoots next week, on the 29th and 2nd?” And... I was stunned, because I was like, this is for... second camera and, you know, on both days. And... “Yeah, I’m available!” (pause) (chuckles) Then I got an e-mail on... Monday morning... “Have you done any work (both chuckle) on second camera before? Do you have any, you know, examples of your work?” “Well, the shot I did at that Amherst Business School with you was the first time I’d really done that, and...” Didn’t want to say, “So that was good, right?” (therapist chuckles) [00:45:44]

But... and I said them a bunch of links... two videos I’ve done and... nothing I’d really like, write home about, but... and I said at the end, you know, I, “If you need someone with more experience, I understand.” Didn’t hear anything back. I got an e-mail two days ago, saying, “Okay, we’re all set for next Monday, and next Tuesday, and Friday.”

THERAPIST: Still hired!

CLIENT: Still hired, so... that’s what I’m doing next week.

THERAPIST: Cool! Don’t sell yourself short.

CLIENT: Well... I won’t, but... It’s hard to know, I mean, because they didn’t give me any direction at all (therapist affirms), you know. The first one, so it’s hard to know as well... But anyway... So, we’ll see what this leads to. Maybe nothing, maybe something. [00:46:47]

THERAPIST: Well, thanks for telling me about it.

CLIENT: Thanks for your interest. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I will see you on Wednesday.

CLIENT: Wednesday at 2:30.

END TRANSCRIPT