TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Great. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Well I'm glad this worked out.

CLIENT: Yeah, me too. Me too.

THERAPIST: So how are you doing?

CLIENT: Better than I was. This weekend was a little tough as multiple friends kept disappointing me. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know, I went out with some friends on Friday night and that was really great. But then my friend who was supposed to come up from back home ended up having work issues, and so she couldn't make it up here. But I had some good "me" time which was good still.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So that worked out. But, yeah, I'm feeling much better than I was on Friday. You know, there's still those moments. (laughs) You know, I think especially when I go to bed and wake up and when I come home there's those moments where, you know, it's just you hit that wall again. And it's like, "Oh yeah, this has changed." (laughs) [00:01:23]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: We actually got together for dinner last night and, you know, we both had a good time.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So that's good.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But, yeah, you know I still have I pretty much feel I've processed everything though I still have these fears of, you know, being alone after being with someone for five years. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: It's a little scary to go back to that aloneness.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Can you say more about that scariness?

CLIENT: Well, um, I mean when I first moved up here, you know, I was still not fully aware and comfortable with myself as I was still figuring a lot of stuff out personally and about my life. And, you know, I pretty much had very (sigh) I wouldn't say I didn't have much of a social life, because I had a social life, but it wasn't I still spent a lot of times in my apartment just me and I'm afraid of going back to that. You know? [00:03:12]

It gets very quiet around the apartment and I've grown very comfortable and fond of having that someone there. And Liam and I we clicked on so many levels (laughs) that I worry about finding someone like him who has a lot of the same interests as I have. The two of us have some specific interests where there's just a small pool of people.

THERAPIST: Mm. Like what?

CLIENT: Well. (laughs) One of the things I thought he was [bringing up] (ph) at some point. Well we're both "furries." (laughs) You know, people obsessed with anthropomorphic animals and fondness of, you know, all things, you know, Looney Tunes (laughs) and, you know, feel a connection to animals. [00:04:32]

THERAPIST: Is that an actual term? Furries?

CLIENT: It is.

THERAPIST: And it refers to anthropomorphizing animals?

CLIENT: Anthropomorphizing animals. You know, a lot of our friends are people in the "furry fan-dom" as they call it. And, you know, it's people who like drawing art of anthropomorphized animal characters. And some go as far as having costumes that they spend lots of money on. And so that's something we were both into and one of the ways we met.

And it's the type of thing that I know has sort of a negative public image, no thanks to the media. (laughs) And so, you know, I fear, you know, finding, and obviously I'm not at that stage where I'm actively looking for a new person. But I fear thinking, when I think down the road, you know, finding someone else with the similar interest or accepting of, open minded about this stuff. [00:06:05]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. When you shared this together, would it be watching things together? Role playing?

CLIENT: Um. I wouldn't (sigh) You know, a lot of his friends were from D.C. since he lived out there. And, you know, and we always went to, there's conventions all over the country.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But we always went to this one in D.C. where a lot of his friends were. It's basically (laughs), one way we describe it to people who come up to us at conventions, it's a good reason to get together, drink and have fun. (laughs) It's really a bad way to put it, but it's a common interest in, you know, art, literature.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know, yeah.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Were there other interests that you shared that you feel would be hard to find in your new partner? [00:07:15]

CLIENT: Um. (sucks teeth) Yeah. Um. It's (laughs, sighs, laughs) It's This one's a little iffy and I'm not quite sure about sharing this one. (pause, sighs) It's something else that has a bit of a negative image. (sigh) And it actually, it's (laughs) got another small group (laughs) of, an even smaller group of people interested in it. But it turns a lot of people off and [00:08:23]

THERAPIST: Well.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I'm open to hearing anything, but you should share with me over a time when you feel comfortable. I'm open to hearing anything and I've heard a lot.

CLIENT: (laughs) No, I know, I'm sure you probably have heard it all. (laughs) But we'll save that one for another session I think.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But that's, you know, that's where my fears are right now is, you know, like I said it's not like I'm actively at that point where I'm I shouldn't be out there looking for somebody right now because that would be a step in the wrong direction for processing things. But, you know, thinking down the line I just think about, "Gee, will I ever find another person with these same interests that are a big part of my life and was a big part of our life." [00:09:39]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. How old were you when you moved here?

CLIENT: I was I had just turned eighteen.

THERAPIST: [I see. Oh.] (ph)

CLIENT: I came up here for school. So yeah, I had just turned eighteen. And when I met Liam I had just turned twenty two maybe?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I think so. I think I had just turned twenty two.

THERAPIST: You alluded to, maybe I got this incorrectly, that he was like your Was he your first gay relationship, or just your first significant relationship?

CLIENT: I would say really significant relationship. I had a couple of, you know, flings before him and, you know, it wasn't anything substantial. [00:10:39]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And when we met I don't believe either of us were really looking for something, but it just happened because, you know, we had that connection. We had so much in common, so many of these interests, and we had fun together.

And, you know, it's funny because I tell people, we tell people the story of how we met and, you know, we were talking online one night. He didn't like the way I typed online because I use a lot of, you know, instant message shorthand. And so he ignored me for six months and then one night he had a little bit to drink and sent me a message saying, "Hey, we should hang out one night or one day." And the rest is history. (laughs) You know? [00:11:44]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: We hung out a lot and really clicked. And it was a click that I had never met someone who shared so much with me.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. You had also mentioned, I think, in one of the sessions that you really felt at ease with his family and welcomed and that it was a contrast to your family.

CLIENT: Yeah. (laughs) I finally came out to my family, um, (pause) two and half years now? Yeah, maybe two and half years ago now.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: You know, my parents had already met him as my "roommate" and, you know, one weekend, one summer, I went down and had the talk. And they weren't too receptive of it. And eventually they came around. I still think they're in slight denial and I think they're going to see this as a, "Oh maybe he'll come home with a girl next time." [00:13:09]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: But I honestly don't care what they think. I've never given much thought to what they think. But one of the things I meant a lot when I had said that was, you know, my mother after knowing him for so many years now, and knowing him as my partner for a few years now, you know, she's just now finally coming around (laughs) to liking him or at least accepting him.

And, you know, his family has, even though his family We, up until this, this was the unspoken You know, his family they just never just talked about Liam and I. You know? They knew. (laughs) They definitely knew. I mean they never questioned why the two of us lived in apartments with one bed. And why, you know, when two people buy a condo together. They knew. [00:14:23]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But it was never talked about it. And his family from day one they just welcomed me with open arms.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And it was a really, really nice feeling. (laughs) I mean, I think I pushed for us to do things with his family more than he wanted to at times. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Just because it was nice to have that connection.

THERAPIST: Are your parents supportive of you in other ways? Or is this consistent with not being as supportive as you'd like?

CLIENT: Um. (sniffs) I wouldn't say they I wouldn't say they've fully supported me in some of my decisions throughout life. And, you know, it's (laughs) one of the reasons why halfway through medical school I switched my major to a degree that would get me out of there quickly. And I'm now going for my education degree because, you know, they for some reason wanted me to become an doctor. (laughs) [00:15:40]

And, you know, I always joke. You know? I voiced other interests and, you know, pushing your visually impaired son to become an doctor is really (laughs)

THERAPIST: Odd.

CLIENT: A little bit. (laughs) A little bit. And when I got a nice promotion in my previous office that put me working more in the office, you know, my mother (laughs), I always joke, the classic mother response. You know, not, "Hey, good job. That sounds great." But rather, "Well are you going to finish school?"

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: It's like, "Well, why wouldn't I finish I school?" (laughs) [00:16:44]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I wouldn't say halfway I was part of the town recreational football team growing up. And I played one year in high school and I decided to leave after that, just because high school took the fun out of it because there's not so much emphasis on having fun. And, you know, my mother when I told her wasn't very supportive and, you know, trying to find the reasons why. While my father was, you know, more or less, "Whatever."

So I would say, "yes," my parents have never one hundred percent supportive of things.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. That wanting you to be an doctor with your visual impairment, I mean, that's Do you have insight into? Is that them or is that just kind of inexplicable?

CLIENT: Inexplicable. [00:17:57]

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: I mean, I think at some point I voiced interest into, this was probably the beginning of my senior year in high school, I voiced interest in doing something else. You know, at one point I was thinking "Education," at one point I was thinking "Culinary Arts."

And I think my mother's response to the second one, "Culinary Arts," was that, "Well why don't I just call up the guidance counselor and just, you know, tell her she should process everything for you to go straight into like a VoTech school. Instead of, you know, there's no use in graduating if that's all you want to do. And it's like, you know, "Gee."

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Thanks for I think that's possibly why I was afraid to say something to Liam when I notice things not going in a good direction. Because I just I was afraid of what his response would be. [00:19:13]

THERAPIST: Mm. Were you born with the visual impairment?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. It's part of the whole package.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And so from day one I was. (pause) But they've always been pushing me into (inaudible at 00:19: 48) play volleyball. That was never fun.

THERAPIST: Because of your vision or because you weren't very good?

CLIENT: Because I wasn't very good because of my vision. (laughs)

THERAPIST: I see. What is your vision like? How impaired is it?

CLIENT: I mean I can drive. I can't Seeing fine details such as reading things far away, seeing a volleyball coming at me very quickly and knowing when to swing are difficult.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: You know, I can see your cup on the table and I see it's got a ring around it, and that's basically the most detail I can see.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: From this distance. So (pause) eventually I stopped playing volleyball which, that was nice. [00:20:49]

THERAPIST: Do you feel that they weren't accepting of your differences?

CLIENT: No I think they were very pushing of it. Well, not pushing of it. I think they did not really know how to deal with it in a more supportive way. You know, knowing, I think they always wanted me to try and have a regular life. You know, "Go out there. Play sports like regular kids do." And it's like, I can't really do what regular kids do.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And it frustrated me at times because, you know, it's just I'm out there and I cannot see the ball coming at me. [00:21:49]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: (laughs) I don't know when to swing. (pause) Yeah. It caused for many awkward moments, I guess.

THERAPIST: With them or just -

CLIENT: With me.

THERAPIST: With the situations that they put you in.

CLIENT: With the situations I was put in.

THERAPIST: I see. (pause) Do you feel that that still affects you in some ways now?

CLIENT: Um.

THERAPIST: You know, in terms of I'm sorry.

CLIENT: I think that's why I go into a lot of situations very nervous. [00:22:44]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Not sure what this is going to be like and (pause) I think, yeah, that's it. I think that's why I go into a lot of situations nervous where I don't know what to fully expect -

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: because it just reminds of, "Gee this is going to be like volleyball all over again." (laughs) where I'm slightly embarrassed at times because I I mean I know it's not my fault that I can't see the ball.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know? I keep going back to that specific, you know, comparison.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. But somehow being put in situations for which you're not prepared, for which you don't have adequate protection, is that where that fear? [00:23:52]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. Hm. It's an interesting insight. An important one I imagine.

CLIENT: (pause) I mean I was also in the Scouts growing up and that's one of the things that I actually enjoyed doing.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: I think it's primarily because it was something that I knew I wouldn't always have to rely on, you know, the limitations of my vision. You know, I knew it was nothing to worry about there because, you know, everything is very adaptable. [00:24:53]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: It wasn't a fast ball coming at me. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Did you ever get hit with the ball?

CLIENT: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Really? Because you couldn't see it.

CLIENT: Partly, yeah, because I couldn't see it.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I got hit a couple of times. You know? I wouldn't say I I mean, I got hit more I'd say more average than some of the other kids, but I wouldn't say every time I got hit with the ball, no.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But there were times, you know, I'd say maybe two more than average than any kid playing volleyball gets hit with the ball.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Do you feel like that nervousness, is that sort of a generalized nervousness or only sort of particular to being in new situations?

CLIENT: I'm not sure. I mean, I think one of the things I previously said was, you know, I'll bring something to my boss for review and, if we're going invoices together because I do the billing and, you know, he'll be looking at something and just really analyzing it. And I'm just waiting for him to, you know, completely blow up over something. [00:26:27]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And I don't know why he would have reason too. He's not the type to completely blow up over something.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But I expect it.

THERAPIST: Hm. Do you know where that in particular comes from? Like people getting angry at you kind of from out of nowhere?

CLIENT: I don't.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I've tried thinking about that one too.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: (laughs) I don't. (pause, laughs)

THERAPIST: Sometimes I I mean I ask questions that sometimes I kind of want to leave you to your thoughts -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: to see where you go. I forgot if we, I forget, I apologize if we talked about this before about if you've been in therapy before? [00:27:43]

CLIENT: Once before. I'd say maybe four years ago or something. It just didn't work out to me. I was trying The main reason I wanted to go was to work on, you know, some of the things we were just talking about such as, you know, general nervousness and anxiety. But also ways of better expressing myself more openly.

And, you know, I was having, I had been employed at the first office I worked at. I was working there for six years before leaving last June. So that's since March of 2006 is when I had started working there. And at that point my previous (ph) therapist, you know, I wasn't very happy there because I didn't see myself growing in the position. [00:28:58]

And I knew that there was potential for growth I just wasn't sure how to correctly voice this and assert myself, get myself out there. And so that was, you know, one of the reasons I had started going to see this person. And somewhere along the line it moved from that onto my problems with procrastination and she was giving me homework assignments to do.

And I always thought that was a little funny that she's giving me stuff to do that I think she kind of knew, she must've known, wasn't going to get done. (laughs) So eventually, after I think a month and a half, I ended that because I saw it was just going nowhere.

THERAPIST: You know what came to mind? Your parents with volleyball kind of setting you up for failure. You know, "You're here for procrastination? Here's some homework." [00:30:05]

CLIENT: Yeah. That's kind of (laughs)

THERAPIST: Like not only missing the point -

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: but kind of, from [my eye] (ph) it seems similar in some way.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I thought about that.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I've thought about that. And at times I've also thought about what you just said about my parents sort of setting me up for failure.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know, my parents like having a certain level of control my sister and myself. And I think they don't like the fact that I sort of broke free of all that and my sister is still living at home. As is her boyfriend. He's a little older than her and he still lives at home as well. [00:31:05]

THERAPIST: Not in your parent's home, in his own home?

CLIENT: Not in my parents, in his own home.

THERAPIST: Well, not really in his own home but his parents' home.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: At some point it's no longer your home, I think it's your parents' home. Has she ever moved out?

CLIENT: No. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: No. And she seems okay with that and my parents seem okay with that.

THERAPIST: That's remarkable.

CLIENT: And I don't I know my parents I know that they are probably Yeah, they're not Yeah, they say, you know, how great I'm doing, you know, and what not. And how proud they are but, you know, part of me knows that they sort of resent the fact that they don't have that grip that they used to have.

THERAPIST: Hm. That's sort of an odd way of putting. But like with having your sister never leave, which you imagine I mean she's contributing to too because she could leave, but they're certainly contributing to that dynamic. What's in it for them? Why do they Do you have a sense of why they want that control? [00:32:23]

CLIENT: I don't. You know, actually I had this conversation with my aunt once when I came out to my aunt, who is also my godmother, before I came out to my parents because I came out to them at her house, [what I consider] (ph), and my parents are still upset about, at both me and my aunt, that I did it there. But to me that was a safe environment because I knew how they'd react.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: My aunt and I talked about the fact that my grandparents were not very strict on my mother and my other aunt, and how both my mother and my other aunt are a bit more controlling and demanding of their children than she is of her children who my grandparents were very strict on because she was the oldest. [00:33:31]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And I don't know what my parents get out of wanting that control.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But it's one of the things that sort of made me move up here after graduating high school to go to college. And that on top of the fact that I knew I'd never be able to You know, I always knew I was little different (laughs) throughout high school. And I knew I would never be able to go out and expand or get new experiences to find out why I'm different if I was still living at home.

THERAPIST: Mm. Different in terms of?

CLIENT: Different in terms of my sexuality and my interests. [00:34:34]

THERAPIST: Mm. One thing that reminded me when you were talking about your parents, wanting them to exert control. That is something, I'm not saying it's the same kind of control, something that came up between you and Liam. That Liam felt that in your relationship, and you felt also, that you wanted to, you know, control him but, you know, somehow keep him close.

CLIENT: Yes. And for me it was more of a fear of just feeling I wasn't doing something right or doing enough. And fearing that if, you know, I let him I wouldn't say that I "let him" go out because I wouldn't say that I ever said, "No, you can't go out." Fearing that if he wasn't with me he'd be out there finding someone else or something. [00:35:56]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: If that makes sense.

THERAPIST: That's a big fear. That requires a lot of effort. (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah. I think a lot of it was spurred by our own just We, I think I previously said we had our intimate tendencies but a lack of actual lovemaking. I always, you know, we talked about it a couple of times and, you know, the way he brushed it off at times just left me not feeling extremely secure. [00:36:56]

And that's why I was always just a little worried or afraid that well maybe, what if there's someone else out there that, you know, maybe I'm missing something. Or, you know, it's something he's just not interested in.

THERAPIST: So you took it as a rejection.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think that's why it might have come off at times as a little control though. I wouldn't put it as control over him versus so much as control over certain situations. And that's why I -

THERAPIST: Mm. That's an important distinction. Because that seemed to the emphasis when you guys were talking and the two of you were here, that there were particular situations that made you feel anxious. And you needed information to feel like, "Okay, this is okay." [00:38:12]

CLIENT: Yeah. And, you know, there were times where we would talk about something over the phone, I would get a little sad, and then I would hang up the phone. And, you know, after we were done I would be like, "Gee, why did I ? Yeah, that's not so bad is it?" And, you know, if (long pause) [00:39:29]

I mean part of it was also a little frustration that I don't think he always took He was easily excited about one thing, you know, the current thing at times. And granted I'll admit I'm easily excitable too. But, you know, what he had mentioned about back in February, whenever we had the storm. Because I remember this happened right before the storm because his friend couldn't fly out on Saturday.

You know, I got out of work and I called him to let him know I'm on my way. And, you know, it's a Wednesday night which he knows that I have something to do for Wednesday night for my class. And he says, "I'm trying to, you know, get this to work out." You know, a friend is in town. And we were trying to, you know, all get together for dinner. [00:40:31]

And, you know, I pointed out to him that, you know, "I've got class work to do tonight. I can't. Tonight doesn't work." You know? And I'm sure I did not say it as calmly. And, you know, I said, "Tomorrow could work but I know you have class until 6:45, so it would have to be later."

And, you know, at the moment I felt like he was trying to make these plans but he's not taking both of our schedules into account. (laughs) And so I reacted instinctively on that. That, "Gee." You know?

And after a few moments I realized, I think I said that I could figure something if it really had to be tonight. You know, I could try and work on my stuff afterwards. It would be kind of late, but I could try and work on my stuff afterwards. You know? But it was after that initial moment like, "Oh, gee, this isn't the right way to respond to this." [00:41:56]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Well, Benjamin, we're going to need to stop for today. You know, it's a shift going from being with a couple to being individually.

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: What was that like?

CLIENT: It was good. It wasn't as awkward as I thought it would be.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: Apparently not as awkward as he thought it would be either. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: No, we both had a good time. We had to talk about a couple of practical things and, you know, I mean fears about the whole situation is the condo and my living situation. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And we set up a temporary solution that, you know, he's going to continue with his half and we will reevaluate things in October. Because he recognizes for me, you know, suddenly as half the income disappears I'm not in the financial position to, you know, move and we could rent it. And we shouldn't sell it right now either because we just wouldn't make our money back yet. [00:43:11]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But aside from the couple of practical things we had to talk about, it was a good time. We were both really glad.

THERAPIST: Alright. Good. Okay, very well. So I have you in for next Wednesday at 7:10.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Give me your card. So I'll just charge you for the last session with the two of you.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: And then going forward it will just be the eight five. And I'll just bill you at the end of the month for that.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Does that sound good.

CLIENT: That's perfect.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: That card does work.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I felt, you know, so silly because the card I gave you was the card to our house account. You know, we had all of our expenses and mortgage go through, and so that card never gets used.

THERAPIST: So you wouldn't know.

CLIENT: That it wasn't active. Because they said they saw you trying to put it through.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because I remember you said that sometimes they don't. [00:44:15]

THERAPIST: Yeah, occasionally they just don't recognize and they divert the merchant so as protection to you they don't allow it to go through.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But very good. So I will see you So thank you for that and I will see you next Wednesday at 7:10.

CLIENT: Okay. Bright and early.

THERAPIST: Okay. Good to see Yes, bright and early. Take care.

CLIENT: Thanks. You too.

THERAPIST: Buh bye.

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