TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.

CLIENT: How are you?

THEREAPIST: Fine, thank you.

CLIENT: (big sigh) It's ugly out there today.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: So I was thinking about some of the stuff we talked about last week.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Specifically the punish for something out of my control and you know I was thinking about it, about the different, just various situations and. Specifically though the kind of situation with Liam. And it's actually interesting. I had a friend in town this weekend with her husband for her graduation. And you know they stayed over Saturday night and me and her were talking a bunch because it seems like she has a lot of the same relationship problems that Liam and I had where, you know she had a lot, and she had a stronger need for time together then her husband has. [00:01:35]

And you know talking with her I realized that you know there's ways in which I act that I just, I don't know why. And you know just feeds that confusion of you know, of that confusion feeling of you know, why I respond the way I do sometimes. And you know I'm not sure now to address that. And you know further feeds the feeling of you know, not the being punished for something I can't control. [00:02:23]

THERAPIST: Hum. And you were tying that into need? Or sort of different levels of need?

CLIENT: Right. Because I know that was one of the main issues that you know Liam and I had. Was that I was a bit more needy of his time then he you know I needed more time from him then he needed from me. You know whereas I would always rush to be home after work, and you know, ready to spend some time with him and (long pause) [00:03:24]

THERAPIST: Why are you thinking about it in terms of him, when he wanted time alone or separate from you, that that was a kind of punishment?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: That wasn't what you were?

CLIENT: Just the situation like now itself is kind of punishment. It feels like -

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: I mean it's partially why I, you know just let things go for so long is because I wasn't quite sure how to address the problems I see with myself. The problems I saw with myself at the time as well. I just didn't know the right way to address them. And sort of felt that they, it was something that was out of my control. I was like autopilot, that I let myself get into. [00:04:37]

(long pause) You know it's like the impulsive response to something, and then realizing afterwards, well gee that wasn't the right response, you know, for the situation and not knowing exactly how to address that initial response, you know. Stop and think for a minute. [00:05:34]

(very long pause) He did come down this weekend though. On Sunday we all, since this was planned months ago, we had, my friend had purchased tickets to do a lunch cruise on the harbor.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And so he came down for that and hung out with us for a couple of hours afterwards and that was really nice. [00:06:27]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: It's good to know that he's you know still working at this you know, we're both going towards the same end goal of nurturing this friendship. Though it's still a little hard to see him out there doing his own thing. You know it turns out last Saturday we were pretty much right in the square (laugh) at the same time. And I had no clue. [00:07:11]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (long pause) Last night it was a little tough. He took his last undergrad exam and you know we exchanged a couple of text messages, like you know. I told him that you know, I'm proud of him. Glad it went well. But it was one of those situations where you know, I would have loved to have been able to, it was one of those situations where you know, under normal circumstances I would have been sitting at home with a bottle of champagne at the ready for whenever he got home. And you know it was a little upsetting that that wasn't the case. [00:08:13]

THERAPIST: Hum. (pause) So the feeling of being punished, how does that fit in with Liam?

CLIENT: Well it (sigh) it fits in that you know (sigh) that he's sort of taken away from my daily life. Having something taken away as a result of these problems.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: That's, you know the punishment that I couldn't be with him last night to just, even though you know I think all he ended up doing was going back up to Aurora right after his exam. But you know the fact that I couldn't be there with him last night to celebrate this big moment, you know despite the fact that I'm going out with him and his family for dinner next Friday after the graduation, but you know last night was the moment he finished his final exam. And you know, I couldn't be there to share that moment with him. You know that's an example of what I mean by I feel like I'm being punished for something. [00:09:52]

THERAPIST: I see. And somehow you're tying it to being impulsive. Or you're feeling like you're impulsive.

CLIENT: Just because it seems like that's, that was one of the main problems is between us is that I, you know would have these impulsive responses (pause) to things he would say or do. [00:10:33]

You know (pause) like back in February when he had said that, you know a friend was in town that he was trying to plan to get together with for dinner. And you know and initially my initial response was you know, a little annoyed or frustrated because it seemed like he wasn't taking both of our schedules into account. When after you know thinking about it for a minute, I realized that well, you know, one of these two days could end up working out if you know, it will be tough, but you know we can definitely find time to get together with this person, and. [00:11:30]

But I didn't, you know think about that at first. I was at first just, you know, my initial response was that of frustration that you know, well gee, (laugh) you know, you didn't know sooner this person was coming to town. And you know we couldn't have planned something ahead of time? (long pause) [00:12:08]

THERAPIST: Hum. Um-hum. (very long pause) So what are you thinking about?

CLIENT: Just specifically that. That moment I just mentioned. (pause) And the fact that in the end it ended up being a good time. It was nice to meet you know, this friend of his and what not. And you know I was just (laugh) (pause) I handled it you know, probably not the best of way at first. (laugh) [00:13:41]

THERPAIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: You know there are a couple of different situations like that where, you know I just might not have handled the situation at the beginning, and my initial response (pause) is that of less than enthusiastic about a situation that in the end worked out nicely. (long pause) [00:14:50]

THERAPIST: Well it seems like as you talked about, that you also don't like being in situations that are sort of uncertain or unknown.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: You feel like anxious about being in situations for which you're unprepared.

CLIENT: Yeah, and sometimes(laugh) I realize that those, my concerns are sort of, while I can't think of specific (laugh) concerns relating to those situations, I sort of realize later on that any concerns I had were sort of a little silly. [00:15:29]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And that's (pause) that's one thing I've been trying to work on. Overcoming this you know, (pause) anxiety over unknown situations.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: It's tough. Well I guess that my friend was in town for her graduation and she's graduating from MSU and so before they, at the online program so that graduation's actually Friday night and their not part of the big Saturday thing. But before the graduation they had this you know, reception for graduates and their guests. And so I tagged along with her and her husband to that. And I was a little you know, nervous going into it because I didn't know any of these people. (laugh) I had no tie to these people and, (clear throat) it actually ended up, you know being a nice little get together. [00:16:54]

And you know I talked for a little bit with the perks the two people in charge of her program. And it turns out one of them lives right down the block from me. And you know I was a little nervous going in because I didn't, like I said I didn't know anybody there. You know I was just, you know, this other person there because of my friend. And it ended up being a really, you know, nice time. [00:17:26]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: (long pause) I was thinking about one of the things you had asked me last week, related to that little role play I did with a friend. [00:18:01]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: You had asked about, you know what about it? You know, it made me feel good.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think one of the things that really helped me feel you know, really enjoy the situation and feel good was that I felt, you know this sense of care and you know being cared for. (pause) [00:18:44]

(long pause) That's one of the main things that I'm helped and you know somebody was there and that person for this brief period of time really just, they were there as someone to, as a caretaker, someone that cares or something. [00:19:20]

THERAPIST: Hum. Um-hum.

CLIENT: (long pause) It was a situation where you know I didn't have to, not that I didn't have to, but I really (pause) wasn't (pause) thinking about who I was for a moment.[00:20:11]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: You know.

THERAPIST: How do you mean that?

CLIENT: (pause) I sometimes feel that I (pause) I have to pretend where put something (pause) (sigh) I'm trying to find the best wording for it. You know in situations I sometimes feel like I have to (pause) act in a certain way as expected by others or (pause) sort of be on constant alert about what I'm doing. (pause) I think I'm a little self conscious in situations. (pause) [00:22:06]

THERAPIST: And you didn't have that self consciousness.

CLIENT: Right.

THEAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Yeah, thinking back to it, I think well gee, you know, at one time my whole thought upon that was, well wasn't that silly. (laugh) You know that acting out like that, that little play, it just seems very silly. But you know, and going into it I probably had some of those thoughts like well this is just silly. (laugh) You know, who does this, but you know I wasn't thinking about it at the time. You know, and that felt good. I didn't have to think about you know, how I was acting or you know, what it may have looked like. [00:23:15]

THERAPIST: Hum. Did you feel self conscious growing up?

CLIENT: Yeah, a lot. A lot. (pause) A lot of times it was related to my vision and certain challenges, you know in school. Teachers would always make a big deal about it and. (long pause) [00:24:19]

THERAPIST: How would they make a big deal?

CLIENT: Well just (pause) always insuring that I, you know making me sort of like the (laugh) special case.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Whether it be you know putting a presentation on the overhead projector on hold for a minute to, you know move my desk up a bit so I could see. And you know now here I am pretty much at the front of the classroom. My desk is sort of close to the presentation board there. So it's, you know I felt called out because of my vision. And you know other times, you know asking another student to take notes for me or copy my, copy their notes for me. [00:25:31]

In one of my classes, I think it was probably sixth grade, multiple times my teacher you know, thought I was sitting there with my eyes closed when I was actually squinting trying to read something. And he would call me out on it in class. [00:25:53]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: You know telling me to open my eyes and pay attention. (very long pause) [00:26:50]

THERAPIST: Do you feel they felt uncomfortable about your condition?

CLIENT: I'm not sure, to be honest. You know thinking back I tried to give people the benefit of the doubt a lot. I think I sort of think about it in the same case as my parents, in that they really didn't know the right way to react or respond. (pause) You know I had some teachers, more so in high school, who you know would talk to me in private at the end of the first class and just get a sense of anything I needed. And then there were some teachers who choose to make it a big public thing. (laugh) [00:28:03]

THERAPIST: Hum. In terms of what you described and there way's too?

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean one example I had, my first high school math class, you know my teacher, I guess she has a family member with this condition and you know she knew the minute she saw me walk in the class and you know after taking the first attendance, she you know asked me and someone else to switch desks. Because she just assumed I needed to be closer to the board. And that was a little awkward. Like oh, okay. (laugh) [00:28:58]

THERAPIST: Hum. (long pause) Did you feel anyone was ever mean to you?

CLIENT: (pause) As mean as kids could be. (laugh)

THERAPIST: Which is pretty mean actually.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (laugh)

THERAPIST: Kids take no prisoners.

CLIENT: They don't. But that was pretty much up until ninth grade or eighth grade. Yeah, eighth grade, it was junior high, yeah. And high school you know, high school is large enough that I had my friends and you know by then a lot of people matured I guess. But yeah, up until eighth grade, kids are mean, (laugh) you know. They find that one thing and they go after it. (laugh) [00:30:21]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (very long pause) I think that's one of the things I liked about being in the Scouts growing up. Was a place I felt sort of safe. (laugh) You know? [00:31:25]

THERAPIST: People were accepting?

CLIENT: Um-hum. (very long pause) It's funny to think about, go back in a circle of the whole push for something not in my control. I was thinking about you know in the sixth grade when my teacher used to call me out all the time, thinking I was sitting there with my eyes closed when I really wasn't. (laugh) It was something at the time that really you know frustrated me. [00:33:23]

THERAPIST: Um-hum. Did you tell him that?

CLIENT: I tried to.

THERAPIST: He didn't believe you?

CLIENT: It was a little difficult. He was I don't mean intimidating figure, just large guy teaching you know sixth grade. And (pause) you know I would tell him not, you know my eyes aren't closed. My eyes weren't closed and you know he. Yeah, I wouldn't say he always believe me. (laugh) [00:34:14]

(very long pause) I think that's one of my fears with you know eventually moving past this and finding someone else. With being alone it really comes into play because you know just, I'm concerned about finding someone who is, either actually finding someone who is as understanding and you know (pause) sees my limitations, but doesn't you know, judge or (pause) or criticize or anything based on my limitations and differences. [00:36:44]

(long pause) I mean adults can be just as mean as kids sometimes. Though I think it's more from a total lack of understanding of something in front of them. (pause) [00:37:24]

THERAPIST: Is that how you can feel, just or felt or feel now, just misunderstood?

CLIENT: Sometimes.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: (long pause) Yeah, it's great when you know somebody actually, (laugh) it's a little awkward, but it's great when somebody actually you know, asks, oh, do you have a condition and then you know they'll apologize for (pause) you know asking that and you know my response is always I'd rather you ask then you know make an assumption and go off of your assumption. [00:38:17]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: You know there was one time when Liam were in the grocery store at the checkout and the checkout lady and he bagger were talking and I don't think they realized that I was picking up on what they were saying, you know. They (long pause) [00:38:56]

THERAPIST: What were they saying?

CLIENT: They were just, you know they were talking about me and you know the one girl, this is going back at least a year and a half, two years ago, but I think the one girl said you know, when she thought I was something else with the hair or something. (laugh) You know. [00:39:25]

THERAPIST: Especially bizarre.

CLIENT: (laughing) Yeah. You know that's it. It's like ask. I don't really.

THERAPIST: That would be very odd.

CLIENT: (laughing) I, you know.

THERAPIST: Maybe Swedish. I mean what is this?

CLIENT: I've gotten, yeah Northern European. I've gotten that a lot. And then, yeah this was two years ago, because this we, were both at a store downtown, we both had to get suits for my undergrad graduation and his community college graduation. And you know I had gone to the store to pick up the suits when they were ready earlier in the day and brought them home. And you know we each had one issue with a part of the suit. So we went back later that evening. And one of the sales guys was in there, you know and he was, he was youngish, probably in his mid 20s. But he was with a group of maybe four or five high school students getting their prom tuxes. And you know he thought he was being slick and really I don't know, I don't remember at this time what he had said, just because I you know tried to just let it be, move past it. [00:40:53]

But you know he thought he was being slick putting his clipboard up and saying something and he was talking just a bit too loud because he said something when I walked in and he sort of motioned with his head towards me, you know for the suits, for the kids to see you know. To turn and look and you know it's like you know, it was completely uncalled for and luckily I had dealt with the manager in that store before. A really a nice guy and I mentioned it to him, that it's really, it's not cool that his guy did that. And he you know, he took care of us and he dealt with his sales guy you know. [00:41:43]

But it's one of those things that's just you know it's uncalled for and. (pause) So yeah, adults can be just as mean as kids sometimes. (laugh)

THERAPIST: Yes. That is true for sure.

CLIENT: (very long pause) I think that's one of the reasons why I'm a little anxious going into new situations and meeting new people. Just because (pause) you know not knowing how people will react (laugh) and you know, if I'll be put into a situation that I just you know, (pause) you know a lot of our friends play board games and card heavy games and a lot of times some of those games I just can't play because the print on the cards are too small for me. And you know I always, I worry about being in that situation. And it's like oh, well you guys have fun, I'm going to sit on the side here and watch. And you know obviously you don't mind doing that, but. [00:44:04]

You know at the same time I don't want it to appear like I (pause) I don't want them to have to try and go out of their way just to accommodate me. You know I don't want the attention drawn to hey, I have this problem that we all need to try and deal with. [00:44:36]

THERAPIST: Hum. Or it you know reminds me about what you were trying to prevent in school, you don't want to be a special case.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: You want to be a kid.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: And in this case an adult who hangs out and. Well Benjamin we need to stop for today. Okay? I will see you next week.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Sound good?

CLIENT: Sounds great.

THERAPIST: Have a good rest of the week.

CLIENT: Thanks, you too.

THERAPIST: Okay. Bye, bye.

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