TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in. Just let me grab some water.

CLIENT: This is like the third Wednesday available to me.

THERAPIST: Oh really. I'll think about that.

CLIENT: (laughing) So Liam and I spent a lot of time together this weekend. Which was nice.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: We both had weekend passes to this convention in town. So. It was good to hang out. I think we both kind of agree that it was a good step in the right direction. It felt I was reminding myself a lot less when we were hanging out that hey, it's not like that you know, anymore. It felt more genuine and you know more like a friendship. So that was good. [00:01:21]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And he actually, I guess him and his brother were talking Sunday or Monday and yes Sunday, and I guess I'm going to his graduation at his brother's place, which is kind of nice. [00:01:43]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: But I sort of feel bad for him because his family's kind of not taking that very well.

THERAPIST: How so?

CLIENT: They're oh his mother is making this whole big deal about it won't be the family together at the graduation. Even though we're all getting together with his brother and his brother's wife afterwards for dinner. They're just making a big deal about that it's just not going to be the whole family together. So, they're making it more about them rather than him and what he wants, so. [00:02:31]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: So you know I sort of feel bad. You know I offered that if it makes things better, you know I don't mind us going back to the original plan where I meet them afterwards for dinner, but he doesn't want that, so. He wants me to be there, which is, makes me feel good. (long pause) [00:03:14]

THERAPIST: What was it like seeing him and spending time with him?

CLIENT: It was, it was good. You know I told him that (pause) spending time with him made me realize the type of friend that I'm looking for right now. You know someone that I can just hang out and joke with and have a good time with. Someone that sort of knows me. It's something I've not been able to find in you know, my other friends around here. So it's, I think that's one thing that really helped, helped me sit back and look at the situation, you know sort of get a bit more comfortable with the fact that it's not like it used to be. [00:04:16]

You know I felt, we spent pretty much most of Saturday together and because he didn't want to have to leave early to go catch the commuter rail, you know he actually spent the night in Providence on the futon. And so you know we had some more time to talk. We did some talking this weekend about things you know. Sort of a check in for both of us, you know. This is where I'm at right now type of talk and you know we spent about half of Sunday together before he hopped on the commuter rail back up after we spent some more time down at the convention. [00:05:07]

And you know it felt nice. There were a couple of points Saturday where I felt like it was a mistake you know spending that much time with him. But you know looking back on it, you know those were maybe like twice on Saturday where I felt like that. And you know Sunday I, Sunday night I felt, I felt pretty good. (pause) [00:05:44]

THERAPIST: Did you miss him?

CLIENT: (pause) Not like I have in the past after hanging out with him. There were two other times, (laugh) you know, we went to dinner the first time and (pause) I (pause) I missed him a little bit after we had gone to dinner. But you know everything was still so fresh that my emotions were just all over at that point. Last, weekend before last when my friends were in town and we went on the lunch cruise, I missed him a lot after that. And I think that's just because of the situation. Here we were with this other couple (laugh) and you know I felt really, really down after he went back up to Aurora, but this time it wasn't, it wasn't like that. (pause) [00:06:59]

Yeah, I think that's why I'm so glad we spent so much time together this weekend. Because I did not, I didn't miss him in the way I have previously. (pause) You know I think it was more or less a hey, we had a good time. It's unfortunate you have to go back up to Aurora now, you know. [00:07:38]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: I'd love to continue having a good time. But that's what it was like.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: You know. (very very long pause) It's just funny because I feel so comfortable with him.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: You know that's what, it felt really great. We, we still sort of interact in the same way we used to. Which is good you know. I mean that's that, what I said before I was really looking for in a friend right now, is someone I interact that well with, so. You know you sort of know the joke that the next person's going to make. (laugh) (long pause) [00:09:44]

THERAPIST: It's hard to let something like that go in an intimate partner.

CLIENT: Yeah. (long pause) It's sort of why I'm glad we're you know, really, we seem to be making progress in nurturing this ongoing friendship. [00:10:22]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: (very very long pause) I'm having, seem to having troubles with my thoughts as usual. (laugh) [00:12:27]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Yesterday we had this project we're doing with the state and we had to get some contract stuff with them. And it's all stuff I've worked on before, so you know he e-mailed me late Monday night asking me to take care of this one form that was part of a group of three or four items that they needed. And you know I took care of this. I sent it out to them mid-afternoon and they replied you know, just checking in to make sure we were also sending along these other three items. And you know I walked back in the office after running out real quick, and you know he says what I sent them was incomplete. And he pointed out these other three items that he didn't mention in his e-mail to me because you know he just asked for the one form. [00:13:31]

You know he asked me to complete this one form and so it was sort of implied that he was going to work on the rest of it. Whereas I guess he didn't leave the original now, and realize that they were looking for more than this just this one form. [00:13:48]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: So, it was another one of those things where it felt like he was sort of you know, blaming me for the fact that he wasn't clear and didn't read an e-mail originally addressed to him. (long pause) [00:14:37]

THERAPIST: I don't know what the connection is. I don't have any particular ideas. You thought of that right after you were thinking about Liam and you're feeling connected to him. And I sort of understood that you were more known by him.

CLIENT: I don't quite understand.

THERAPIST: Well you just kind of went from that point to the other.

CLIENT: From the point yeah.

THERAPIST: And I don't know if it was just that your mind wandered. That's what I meant. I was just sort of think about.

CLIENT: I think my mind was just wandering. [00:15:11]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: (pause) Sort of running through the days over the last week.

THERAPIST: Um-hum. (pause) Given my you know, relatively brief interactions with you and Liam the two times we met, I was anticipating your being more sort of grief stricken.

CLIENT: I think (sigh) my (sigh) (pause) you know one thing when he was in town, when he was down and we had gone on that lunch cruise with my two friends, at one point he had gone to go to the restroom and you know my friend Danielle, she asked you know how am I doing. And you know I told her that I was, I was having a little problem, but she a little trouble, you know. But was okay. And you know she pointed out that I was hiding (laugh) it really well. [00:16:35]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And you know I (pause) I think part of it is (pause) that I'm having trouble really putting all of that into words and showing it. And also the fact that I'm, you know probably not the most productive way to go about this, but I'm really trying to fast forward through the emotions, which I know I that I really shouldn't. [00:17:16]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: I mean I do keep having these moments where I'm replaying you know, coming home that Thursday (pause) [00:17:42]

THERAPIST: What were those moments like?

CLIENT: Scary. (laugh) I mean, it was at one point, it was yesterday afternoon when I was on the subway coming home and you know, I'm just standing there and all of a sudden my mind wanders and it goes straight to that, that instant coming home and you know seeing the note on the couch and picking it up and reading it. (pause) And I think my mind goes there, you know probably a couple of times a week. (pause) [00:19:06]

THERAPIST: What did it feel like when you read it?

CLIENT: (pause) I, I mean I only got past the first line and it was, I felt scared and panicked. [00:19:40]

THERAPIST: Hum. Scared that? Or about?

CLIENT: (pause) Scared about losing him.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Scared about you know, the one constant, the one thing that I always felt was right, changing. [00:20:08]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: (pause) I think part of me feels one of the reasons I may not be as emotional about it right now as I previously was is the fact that we are still, you know trying to remain a part of each other's life in some way. (pause) I mean that was one of my biggest fears going through all this is that you know, if, if it did end, you know, losing him completely. (pause) After, after being through that once it's like, it's not, it's not something I'd want to go through again. You know losing him completely, and not you know having that person there anymore. [00:21:53]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (long pause) And I've also been beating myself up a little bit over the past I'd say week, about the whole situation. You know looking back and thinking well gee, (laugh) you know, (pause) I acted in some not so productive ways (laugh) I guess. (pause) And though I don't understand the exact reasons behind some of my reactions to situations, I still look at the situations and realize that you know I, (pause) I should have been more supportive of this, or I should have you know, not been so judgmental of that, you know. [00:23:30]

THERAPIST: It was about Liam is what you mean.

CLIENT: Right. (long pause) Maybe I guess this past week was the only, the first point in the process where I actually you know, sort of beat myself up a little bit over it. (pause) [00:24:49]

THERAPIST: Over regrets?

CLIENT: Yeah. And it's funny because I don't really, I look back and I live with very, very few regrets and you know, after coming out of this, this situation I have suddenly taken on a few regrets. (laugh) (very long pause) [00:26:30]

THERAPIST: What are you thinking about?

CLIENT: Well you know one of the things that really helps is knowing that you know, sort of knowing for sure though without a 100 percent certainty that, you know he sort of feels similar about us remaining close and you know to some extent part of each other's life. (pause)

You know the fact that he told me Sunday night that he wants me at his graduation, you know, and pleased for his brother, it just, it really made my night. It really offered me reassurance that he's, he's not just trying to humor me throughout the process and you know, make me feel better. You know, it sort of added some, added some (sigh) substance or validity to you know, him agreeing that we need to remain friends, or that we should remain friends. [00:28:13]

THERAPIST: Hum. (pause) And you felt included?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Um-hum. (pause) When you were saying before about wanting to sort of rush through the feelings, fast forward. Do you have a sense of why you'd want to do that?

CLIENT: Just because they're not pleasant feelings. (sniffing) (long pause) Yeah. (long pause) I think in general I've never really been too great with opening up and showing my emotions. (sniff) (pause) Inside I also feel that especially after all of this as I've learned there's so few people I can really come to rely on, and so I'm just trying to rush through and put everything behind me. And while I recognize that's probably not the best way to deal with this, because it can eventually come back and just hit me like a ton of bricks, that's (pause) that's what I'm trying to do. (sniff) [00:31:26]

It's sort of, it also helps to know, you know like I said, we both sat down and talked a couple of times now, once Saturday morning and then once Saturday evening when we got back to Providence, and it helps to know he's sort of going through the same thing. Even though he hasn't shown it to me, until we really talked. But you know I told him that I was having a hard time last Tuesday night, you know when he posted a tweet about his last exam as an undergrad, and you know I told him that that was a hard night because it's the type of thing where I usually you know, I'd be sitting home with a bottle of champagne at the ready. And he told me that it was a bit of a difficult night for him as well because he went, he finished his exam, went back up to Aurora and there was nobody there. (laugh) [00:32:38]

You know there was no celebration, or there wasn't somebody sitting there with a bottle of champagne at the ready, and you know it was a bit of a tough time for him as well. And to know that he's, despite the fact that he initiated all of this, to know that he's sort of going through the same thing, the same emotional roller coaster, helps. (pause) [00:33:23]

THERAPIST: Did it make you feel less alone, to make you feel -

CLIENT: Less.

THERAPIST: that you belonged to him?

CLIENT: Less alone.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: (pause) You know I said looking at twitter, it's hard to tell, you know you see oh, you're out doing this, you're out having fun with that. And you know he pointed out well yeah, you know, sort of doesn't want to post oh, gee, this sucks right now. And you know I kind of agree. I don't post any of that stuff either. But you know, like I said looking at it, it looks like he's completely moved past this and you know, that's one of the things that hurts. Is the idea that wow, he was that sure, that he's already moved past this, but to know that well, he hasn't moved past it completely just, it helps me feel less alone. Helps, helps, yeah it helps me feel less alone to know that he's you know, we're still sort of going through this together. [00:34:37]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: In some way. (very very long pause) [00:36:38]

THERAPIST: When you're quiet, would you like me to ask what's on your mind, or would you rather let me sort of be alone with your thoughts?

CLIENT: (pause) It's hard to answer, because it varies some times, and sometimes I am thinking of something specific, and sometimes like just now I was just (pause) wandering through different things over the past week.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (pause) One, one thing that was just running through my mind was (sigh) Saturday night. You know I felt quite crappy, and I was sort of glad that Liam was spending the night, because it was good to talk to him about this. You know, these conventions and other various geek magnet conventions seem to bring out the worst in some people. And you know someone that was a, someone that's a sort of newish friend was hanging out wiht us, and you know he had been drinking a little bit and he started to get quite a bit forward. And you know not only did it make me very uncomfortable because I didn't picture our friendship like that at all, and I'm not ready to you know, have that type of interaction with anybody. But it also made me feel really upset and uncomfortable that you know, he was being really forward in front of Liam. (laugh) And you know I felt really both uncomfortable, upset at him and then also upset at myself because I feel like these, I keep searching for this one type of person that I need right now, and I keep attracting the exact opposite of what I need right now. [00:39:30]

You know, and Liam seemed to understand. When we were talking he, he noticed my, the fact that I was very uneasy and uncomfortable in the situation and we actually ended up leaving one of the panels we were sitting in with him just because you know, I wasn't feel all too great at, it was already like 11:00 and we were ready to go. [00:40:08]

THERAPIST: What made him the opposite of what you're looking for?

CLIENT: I'm looking for someone that you know, is there as a friend and no more. And he, he seems to be looking for something slightly more. He's looking to have a good time it seems, and that's not what I need. I mean a good time is nice and all, but that's not quite what I need right now. [00:40:44]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (long pause) Which is why, or one of the reasons I really enjoy hanging out with Liam is because I feel that's what I need right now. Someone who you know, someone who is just there. And (pause) there's no expectation of something more, and (pause) you know granted I can't, I can't blame this friend fully as you know, alcohol (laugh) just brings out the worst in some people. And these conventions are you know, the perfect set up. (pause) [00:41:50]

THERAPIST: Are you typically around people who drink more than you do?

CLIENT: It seems that way.

THERAPIST: But you described that with Liam too, him getting drunk on a number of occasions.

CLIENT: When we first -

THERAPIST: And having you feel very uncomfortable, yeah initially.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, it seems to be the case. (pause) But I mean with him it was slightly, (laugh) slightly a bit more severe, but (long pause) it sort of adds to the, the feeling you know, oh gee, I keep, you know I keep getting it I wouldn't say attracted to but, but I keep attracting this one type of people I guess. (pause) That's one of the reasons I felt really happy Saturday night because you know it was a bit of a realization, well gee, I seem to, have everyone I seem to you know, form some sort of acquaintance or friendship with, turns out to be someone like this, who you know. [00:44:13]

THERAPIST: Well, let's talk about that more next week. We're going to need to stop for today, okay?

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Okay, very good. Take care Ben.

CLIENT: Thank you, you too.

THERAPIST: Okay, bye-bye. [00:44:39]

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