TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.

CLIENT: Hi. How are you?

THERAPIST: Good. Thank you. (pause)

CLIENT: So one quick thing. I was running through some stuff over the weekend and I realized that if I'm continuing I need to probably find someone that takes my insurance.

THERAPIST: Mm. The eighty five dollars is too much?

CLIENT: Yeah. It's one of those things when you think about it, "Oh, eighty five a week. That's not bad." And then when it all comes together and you're like, "Oh, 340 a month. That's a bit much." [00:01:02]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Do you What was I going to say? What are your I mean, I'm asking this question I'll ask the question, and I'm asking it from this vantage point. I'm especially willing to reduce a fee even more if it's for some period of time when you can pay more.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: And I know you're kind of at a transition in terms of your job. So I'm about to ask just in terms of sort of your job future and so forth, what you're thinking about?

CLIENT: I hope to be in a different position by the end of the summer.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: My last class ends this week. And so now that I have this degree under my belt and the free time that will come with this class being over, (laughs) I intend to go into full swing. So I hope to have something by the end of the summer that's both a position that's a bit of an advancement and also better paying. [00:02:10]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Well, I mean if that's the case, then that's only a couple of months. (laughs)

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: It's like two and a half months, really.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So, you know, I'm happy to talk about something that might even be more affordable given that, you know, I understand you can't guarantee you'll be in a different position.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But you might be, and then we can talk about it, you know, at that time. What do you think about that?

CLIENT: I could see that, yeah. I could see that working. (pause)

THERAPIST: Do you have a thought over the next few months what you could, we sort of look at it by month rather than by session, because it sounds like you hadn't thought about the -

CLIENT: The overall, yeah.

THERAPIST: Right. Although, I have to say in August I'll be away for probably one and half weeks. That's not a lot of time, but just sort of think about the calculus of the month.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So, yeah, I don't know if that would help for you to think about it that way in terms of what you can afford. [00:03:09]

CLIENT: That would help and if you wanted I could shoot you over a couple of numbers. I could work a range that could work for me.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I don't think it's that much of a difference from the eighty five now. It's just 340 it's, once you look at it and you look at the statement and you're like, "Oh, yeah, that's a lot." (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: With everything else added in.

THERAPIST: Okay, well let's Why don't you look at it and we'll talk about it. But it sounds like we can work out something.

CLIENT: Okay. I appreciate that.

THERAPIST: Sure. (pause)

CLIENT: I'm trying to remember what we were talking about last week now. (laughs) This past week has been a bit of a blur with all my last end of the class stuff. I've sort of been going in overdrive all week. (pause) [00:04:43]

It's interesting, I finally told my father on Thursday about Liam and I. And his response was not quite, well sort of what I expected, but a bit of a letdown. You know, instead of asking how I am or anything to that nature, you know, he jumps to, "Well, what about the condo?" You know, "What's going on with that?"

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And while I am sure his intentions were good as in, "Well I hope, you know, you guys work that out." You know, it wasn't quite the response I had expected or had hoped for. I think that's partially why I waited so long to say something. [00:05:44]

THERAPIST: Mm. What were you hoping for? What would have been nice to hear?

CLIENT: You know, "I'm sorry to hear. How are you?" You know? (pause) But, you know, I wasn't completely surprised at his response.

THERAPIST: Mm. (pause) Is that generally typical for him to kind of miss or not pay attention to the kind of the meaning or emotions? [00:06:53]

CLIENT: Not really. It's typical for my mother. It's not typical for him.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: You know, when I got a major promotion at my old office, you know, I called and told my mother and her response was, "Well what about school?"

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know, she immediately for some reason thought, oh this means I'm not finishing my undergraduate degree. Which I don't know why she would think that. But, you know, that was her response. Not, "Oh that's great." But rather, "What about school?" (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)

CLIENT: So, yeah, for her it's more common but (pause) And I think part of it stems from the fact that they're still, you know, coming to terms with things as I only came out to them two and a half years ago now, maybe three years ago. [00:08:24]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Two and half probably. I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: Do you think they knew beforehand?

CLIENT: (laughs) Nope. They were blown away.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: (laughs)

(long pause) [00:10:24]

CLIENT: I mean when I told them they made it all about themselves. And I think that's another reason why I didn't want to tell them about the breakup for so long, because I was afraid they would make it all about themselves or something.

THERAPIST: Hm. About themselves, how so?

CLIENT: Well, I mean when I came out to them my mother, you know, went into this whole big thing about, you know, obvious usual mother stuff. You know, "Oh, grandchildren." And, you know, stuff like that. And (sigh) yeah. I got some unpleasant e-mails from her.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: You know? (pause)

THERAPIST: About her being angry or upset? [00:11:30]

CLIENT: A little bit of both. (pause) Accusing me of lying for, you know, however long it was. (pause) And then getting upset at me and my one aunt, her older sister because, you know, I sort of set the stage to protect myself. (laughs) And, you know, had the talk at my aunt's house and, you know, so she got upset at both of us (laughs) and still is upset at my aunt about it. [00:12:42]

(long pause) [00:13:57]

THERAPIST: That must have been pretty tough growing up with a mom like that.

CLIENT: I learned how to let a lot of things just not faze me. (pause) To sort of just look at thing from the outside and laugh. You know? [00:14:58]

(long pause) [00:16:23]

CLIENT: And that's one of the reasons I originally came up to New York for school anyway. School is a good excuse (laughs) to, you know, come up here because I knew staying home I'd never be able to really find who I am. And, you know, at least living so close to home as the schools I was looking at. (pause)

THERAPIST: Do you think that's what happened to your sister? That she has not been able to find who she is being at home or being near a parent?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know if it's that or something else. I mean (pause), she has always been the exact opposite of me in terms of, you know, she seems content with living at home. [00:17:54]

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And not contributing. (pause)

THERAPIST: Does she work?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Does she have a life outside of your parents' home?

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, she does her own thing. Her boyfriend right now is actually in a similar situation. He still lives at home as well. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: It's kind of funny.

THERAPIST: How do you get along with her? [00:18:49]

CLIENT: I'd say we're civil. (laughs) She certainly has her moments where she tries harder at a relationship than I do. But there's not much of a sibling relationship there. I'm not sure if it's the age difference or anything else. I don't know.

(long pause) [00:20:15]

And when I came out to my parents, you know, my mother (laughs) didn't say anything to my sister. You know? And she kept wondering why my parents were mad at me or upset at me at least. And so, you know, my mother eventually said, "I'm not telling her. You can tell her if you want." And so I felt no obligation so I sent her an e-mail. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Hm.

(long pause)

THERAPIST: What are you thinking about? [00:22:12]

CLIENT: Just, you know, my sister and, you know, I guess one of the reasons (laughs) there's really no relationship there is, you know, thinking back she was never really there for me growing up. You know? The way you would expect an older sibling at least, an older sibling, four years older than you to be in a protective way or something.

(long pause) [00:23:40]

CLIENT: Yeah, she's always held some sort of, I don't know, resentment or jealousy towards me for some reason too. I don't know. You know, here she is still living (laughs) at home and blaming me for stuff.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: You know, last year when I went to, when Liam and I went to Rome she thought my parents somehow, you know, came up with money out of thin air and were paying for me to go on this trip.

THERAPIST: Hm.

(long pause) [00:25:53]

CLIENT: It's just stupid stuff like that makes me, you know, want to distance myself from her. You know, I try (laughs) to live drama free.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And, you know, every time something comes up with her it's always filled with unnecessary drama.

(long pause) [00:27:05]

CLIENT: I guess that's one of the reasons why Liam's family was always so important to me. Yeah, they were almost like the exact opposite of mine. You know? At his graduation his father actually pulled me aside and, you know, he told me how much, you know, how much of an important part I was in helping Liam get to that day.

And, you know, it's just such a transition from where he was five years ago when he was still living in Aurora with them. And he thanked me for everything.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And, you know, it was very touching. And it's one of those things like, "Gee, I could never see my parents doing something like that." [00:28:06]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Or saying something like that.

(long pause) [00:31:09]

CLIENT: Yeah, it's interesting to think about why the person that I feel closest to in my family is my cousin who, you know, not only is like ten or eleven years older than me but also lives on the other side of the country right now.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Rather than, you know, my sister who is only four years older than me and lives four hours away.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know, she was actually the first person I came out to in the family too.

THERAPIST: Hm. Your cousin?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What about your relationship with her makes you feel close?

CLIENT: She's always been the (pause) Well she's great with kids. And growing up she was always there, you know, despite being so much older. You know, she was always the cousin that was fun to be around and, you know, (pause) would help you get into trouble. (laughs) I always joke, "She's the reason I am who I am." (laughs) [00:32:51]

But, you know, when I told her over Christmas a couple of years ago, a few years ago, you know, I told her I needed to talk to her about something. And I forget what the alternative, the other option was, but she said, "I either got someone pregnant or I got into some sort of trouble." And she was blown away. She didn't think that's what I was going to tell her. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: But, yeah, she's always there. And, you know (pause) And she also, you know, sort of an outside perspective knows how my mother can be. And, you know, she really helped me, you know, come up with a sort of game plan to tell my parents while still protecting myself. [00:34:23]

I mean my mother admitted that, you know, had I told them without my aunt being around, my feelings would've been even more hurt than they were.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: I was like, "Yeah, I kind of knew that." (laughs)

THERAPIST: What do you think they were ultimately angry about? (pause)

CLIENT: I don't know. Aside from just the fact of having your only son be gay, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Mm. (pause) [00:35:25]

CLIENT: I mean she kept bringing up grandchildren and I kept pointing out, "Well, there's adoption. There's other alternatives." And then she told me something that I really hope wasn't a lie but, to be honest, I question and unfortunately it's something that I really can't go and ask my aunts about. But, you know, she said apparently I've got an even older sister out there somewhere that they had put up for adoption just before they had gotten married, my parents.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And apparently only my grandmother knew about this. And it's something that, you know, I'd like to believe but at the same time I don't fully trust given her whole reaction to the thing and the situation. I could believe that she would say anything. [00:36:58]

THERAPIST: I'm not even clear on the connection. Why would she tell you that then?

CLIENT: Her reasoning was, you know, if I wanted kids and I went through another means. You know, I originally said adoption. You know? And there's obviously surrogates and that's why she brought that up. Is, "Oh, you've got to watch out and be careful because, you know, there's a one in a million chance that, you know, you go out there looking for a surrogate and it's this person that's, you know, so many years older than you. And who knows where they are." [00:38:00]

THERAPIST: I guess I'm still Like is she saying I don't even understand the connection. Like why?

CLIENT: I don' either. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Okay, I just want to make sure I wasn't missing something.

CLIENT: (laughs) This is my mother. There doesn't always have to be a connection.

THERAPIST: Did she say it to upset you?

CLIENT: I think so. I think so. (pause) I think so because one of her e-mails to me, one of her angry, upsetting e-mails to me, you know, was that she said, "Oh, I'm going to stop taking my medicine." And, you know, I talked to my aunt about that and, you know, she said my father wouldn't let that happen. But, you know, she says things to upset and cause pain sometimes. [00:39:07]

THERAPIST: Mm. Medicine for?

CLIENT: I'm not sure exactly what she takes medicine for right now. I think (sigh), like she has asthma. And I'm not sure exactly what else. She's on a medication for See these are things I should know but I don't, (laughs) I guess.

THERAPIST: Not everybody knows the medicine their parents take. It seems like she gets, you know, aggravated if not enraged at things she can't control.

CLIENT: Sort of. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean it's sort of like a I guess when I think about it, like if she's saying, "If you do this, I'm going to do this." She's sort of saying like, "This is what I'm going to do in response." [00:40:09]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: There's not really much she can do.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But she wants to show you that she actually could do something even if it's by a very passive aggressive means. Like, you know, "I'm going to do this which will hurt you, and maybe you'll do what I want then."

CLIENT: Yeah. And it's one of the things I've just become sort of immune to.

THERAPIST: Mm. Does she do that with your Dad?

CLIENT: Not that I've ever noticed. Yeah, not that I've noticed.

THERAPIST: With your sister? Does she do that with your sister?

CLIENT: I wouldn't be surprised, but it's another one of those things I've just not noticed.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I don't go home as much as I used to. I think maybe I go home for Christmas, but other than that my parents come up here over the summer usually for a weekend. [00:41:18]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So I'm not quite sure what goes on in the time that I'm not there. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: It's the type of thing I've never really paid attention to before I moved out. But her reaction to things is one of those things that I've just grown sort of immune to. I mean last year, you know, we were buying the condo and I had told to them, "Come on up around Halloween," because, you know, my father wanted to go to check out Long Island at some point and we'd be in the condo by then.

And they were originally thinking of coming up around September 1st. And, you know, I had told my father that really isn't ideal as September 1st the city is just crowded with U-Haul trucks and such. (laughs) [00:42:24]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And he sort of understood that. And, you know, my mother sends me this e-mail, "Oh, you don't want to see me," this and that and the other. And, you know, I call her up and I say, "No, it's not that I don't want to see you, it's that there's this logical reason. You know, if you want to come up September 1st, it's your call. But, you know, I've got this going on and the city's going to be crowded and, you know, it's just not ideal." In the end they came up September 1st. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm. So in the end they did what they wanted.

CLIENT: They did what she wanted.

THERAPIST: They did what she wanted. Good correction.

CLIENT: And in the end it did sort of work out because my father was busy the weeks around Halloween because the shop he works for does a lot of work for the elections. [00:43:41]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So it would have been hard for him to come up when me and my father originally were planning anyway.

THERAPIST: Mm. (pause)

CLIENT: [Who loved] (ph) one of my friends growing up who now lives out here or up here is also gay. He's sort of been out all throughout high school. But it's one of those things where everybody always knew Andy was. And at one of the parades recently, I guess, his mother came up to my mother and they were talking and she made the comment, "I guess we now have something in common." And I am sure my mother had quite a face when she said that to her. (laughs) [00:45:18]

THERAPIST: Mm. (pause)

CLIENT: I mean when, sort of similar to this situation with Liam when Brittney (ph) had passed away I think I waited a full week and a half before I told my parents.

THERAPIST: Mm. Who is Brittney (ph)?

CLIENT: She was my friend, former girlfriend, who had passed away. [00:46:25]

THERAPIST: Oh. Yeah. Uh huh.

CLIENT: And that wasn't even planned (laughs) when I told her. It was in response to her complaining about something. And I just went into that whole, "Well, your day is not as bad as mine," (laughs) response.

THERAPIST: Hm. (pause) Benjamin, we're going to need to stop for today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I will see you next week. Okay?

CLIENT: Okay. And I'll run through those numbers and shoot you an e-mail.

THERAPIST: Sure. Absolutely. Take care.

CLIENT: Thanks, you too.

THERAPIST: Okay, bye bye.

END TRANSCRIPT