TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in.

CLIENT: I'm having trouble today. I'm finding it difficult to fish for things to talk about.

(Pause): [00:00:50 00:00:57]

THERAPIST: I like that metaphor. "Fish." I guess they're not jumping or flying fish, but you have to go get them.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's how I felt last week and this week.

(Pause): [00:01:11 00:02:08]

CLIENT: I've sort of kicked my job search into next gear. Work has not been especially pleasant the past few days, but it's more of the usual stuff there.

(Pause): [00:02:26 00:02:36]

CLIENT: Yesterday I actually like, my boss was preparing for a meeting that was scheduled for the late afternoon in our office and he asked me to set something up and I asked him a follow up question that he sort of made it appear as if it really was a dumb question to ask.

(Pause): [00:02:58 00:03:32]

CLIENT: I'm actually looking forward to a few days away from the office next week which, that'll be nice but reminds me I'll be going out of town next Wednesday.

THERAPIST: Okay.

(Pause): [00:03:44 00:04:08]

CLIENT: I constantly feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle with him and lately he's actually been acting very similar to my previous the person I worked under in my previous office and it's something I don't really understand but he's doing it pretty much to the entire office. But it's something I don't understand and is something that really makes me annoyed. He'll release and then pull on this invisible leash that has no reason to be there. (Pause) On Friday, one of our clients had asked, had sent an e-mail to me asking about one of the invoices I sent out and they were just asking about one of the dates that was on the invoice. They don't recall what was done that day and they just wanted to know what it was and that's it. They didn't say that there was any problem with it; they just wanted to be refreshed. And so I sent an e-mail to the project manager and copied my boss on it just asking if she could give me a brief description so I could forward it on to the client and she replied saying, 'yeah, this is what it was that they requested we do,' and I said, 'okay, I'll just let them know.' And he comes in out of nowhere saying, 'don't send that. We need to coordinate our response before we say anything,' and it's not like it was really anything to worry about or coordinate, it was just a simple 'this is what was done.' And even the project manager didn't understand what he was talking about and why he was interjecting himself like that. It's a

(Pause): [00:06:49 00:07:02]

THERAPIST: And so, what's the leash?

CLIENT: That's exactly it it's an e-mail that I'm perfectly capable of sending myself. The client reached out to me and he's pulling back on it like don't send it, I'll take care of it. And it's like it's one of the things that constantly frustrates me. He'll give me something to do and then pull back and take it over himself.

THERAPIST: So the issue of trust feels like one of control.

CLIENT: Pretty much, yeah.

(Pause): [00:07:48 00:08:13]

CLIENT: And I found out also Friday afternoon we're getting an award submission out that had to be downtown by four and at one point in the afternoon he says to me that he doesn't want to be the one to have to crack the whip on this. But yet he stood over us the entire time cracking the whip when we were fully capable of getting it out the door ourselves and because of him we got it out the door a half hour late and made it downtown an hour late.

(Pause): [00:09:01 [00:09:37]

CLIENT: And then on Monday, someone I've dealt with before at the state, needed some sort of accounting report from us that they ask for every year because they audit their records of what they owe us and he had asked me who that was after I hung up the phone and I told him and it went into this whole five to ten minute conversation about what they needed and it's not the first time they've ever asked for it and that it's something we have to send them because it's way of auditing their records of what we've billed them and how it's perfectly fine to send this to them.

(Pause): [00:10:26 00:10:59]

CLIENT: It's just frustrated because it seems like every move is either questioned, watched, or something.

(Pause): [00:11:13 00:11:19]

THERAPIST: Does it feel like a variation on a common theme? Because I know you describe your parents as quite controlling.

CLIENT: It doesn't feel the same.

(Pause): [00:11:29 00:11:48]

CLIENT: I find it hard to draw a line there.

THERAPIST: How is it different with your parents kind of controlling (unclear)?

(Pause): [00:11:52 00:12:15]

CLIENT: It was I would say more less of an implication of being in control and there was my boss, he always wants to make it seem like, 'oh you can do this easier.' And, 'you have to do this, this is your task.' Whereas with my parents it was always like this is how it's getting done,' I guess.

(Pause): [00:12:58 00:13:17]

THERAPIST: I see the distinction.

(Pause): [00:13:18 00:13:23]

THERAPIST: They weren't pulling on a leash because there was no leash. There were just direct orders.

CLIENT: Pretty much. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:13:28 00:13:56]

THERAPIST: Does it feel like your boss doesn't trust you?

CLIENT: Many times, yeah.

THERAPIST: Like he undermines, like he doesn't express confidence in your abilities to take care of things.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's pretty much it, you know.

(Pause): [00:14:13 00:14:27]

CLIENT: Many times he'll expect it's one thing that's really been getting to me lately, is he'll expect me and pretty much the entire office to read his mind on something. Last Thursday or last Wednesday we were going over the link and he was asked me about one of the reports and at one point he said, 'do you have a handle on this?' And I looked at him and I said, 'I don't know what you're talking about. I have a handle on, you know, this but I don't think this is what you mean and he expected me to just know exactly what he was talking about and read his mind.

(Pause): [00:15:20 00:15:31]

CLIENT: Yesterday, actually we'd been having trouble getting one of our clients to pay us on one of the jobs and are a few months behind and he called me from his car because he was going to give a call to the client again, he asked me, 'did we get this check in yet?' And I said no and he said, 'has the mail come yet? Are you sure we haven't gotten it?' And I said, 'no, if they paid us with a live check, the mail hasn't come yet. If they Actually this was Monday and I said if they pay us via wire transfer it will either come Thursday or Tuesday, that's when it usually does. And so there is nothing yet and there is no sign that anything's coming and he asked a couple of times before hanging up you know, are you sure, are you certain he's not paid it yet?' And it's like, I've been telling you for the past two weeks and showing you aged accounts receivable that, 'no, they've not paid it.' You know, if they did, it would be in the system. It gets recorded the minute I get it. And it's like he's questioning something so simple as, did we get this and is it recorded?'

(Pause): [00:17:01 00:19:42]

CLIENT: I just would like to find my way out of this. It's I really find my patience wearing thin nowadays. I think three times last week he catches me just as I'm about to walk out the door. Two of those days I ended up staying like an hour late because of that and one day I actually had plans and I told him I had to leave now. But he just he's not very respectful of other people's time either.

(Pause): [00:20:32 00:22:52]

CLIENT: I sort of last week found myself in a situation with my boss that reminded me of a couple, well not a couple many situations I found myself in with Liam in that there was something that had to be taken care of and he didn't fully think about the situation before jumping into one way to handle it and our we just moved into a new office back in March and we renovated it and we had a dishwasher installed that the installers didn't properly secure to the underside of the granite and so I was working with our contractor to try and get this resolved because it basically broke loose and my boss starts this big thing where architects I mean, what does it say for us if we can't take a drill and repair this ourselves and he made it seem like I totally went in the wrong direction by going to our contractor who is really the one responsible for repairing this and I looked at him and I said, 'well, Harrison, we I don't know about you, but I don't feel comfortable drilling into granite,' and you know he had this look of, 'you're right,' you know, 'I didn't think about that.' And you know, it reminded me of the situation I always found myself in with Liam and it was like, 'well, we could do this, but X is sort of a problem.' (Pause): [00:25:03 00:27:25]

THERAPIST: What are you thinking about?

(Pause): [00:27:23 00:27:36]

CLIENT: Basically that, you know, and the fact that things would come up and it happened multiple times where something would come up and I would point out a logical item in the end, you know, say maybe 60-70% of the time, you know it ended up working out the way and it's like, 'oh wow, it's a good thing we didn't do that because, that's right, especially with his school work since he was pretty much slammed most weekends. You know, if a friend was holding a get-together at their place as one of our friends usually did about once a month, you know, it was usually something that went into the evening and if we went he'd be the one driving back and it would be a pretty much most of the day type thing and we did it once and he was slammed all day Sunday working on stuff for class and even most evenings that week. It was like, well, you know it was your decision to go and this is what I've suggested in the past. You know, well, you do have a lot of work to do this weekend. But then at other times the logistical stuff you know. When we were talking and he was trying to figure out stuff for his graduation and the cars and whatnot since not everybody was going to the ceremony but everybody was going to dinner afterwards, and you know we were talking about who was going to share what car, it wouldn't make sense for everybody to drive and have three cars down at Pratt when it's only five or six adults, or five, six people, total. With this type of thing he looks at me and he's like, 'that makes sense.' And it's like, 'well, you know, I'm just trying to offer outside insights,' and it's the exact situation as with Harrison. It's like, 'oh, that makes complete sense. I didn't think of that.'

(Pause): [00:30:57 00:31:11]

CLIENT: So generally the plan was that his mother and stepfather would most likely take a cab from the hotel and his brother was going to give me a ride down and you know, it's like well if you're brother's got to come pick me up, why don't they pick your parents up as well and you know, we could all fit in their big car and this way there's not worrying about people trying to meet up or your parents getting lost in a taxi. And in the end that's what we ended up doing because he realized it did make sense. And we went down there with two cars instead of three.

(Pause): [00:31:55 00:32:17]

THERAPIST: So, isn't it a matter again of trusting your judgment?

(Pause): [00:32:19 00:32:32]

CLIENT: I'd say trusting my judgment without further I feel like I always have to defend my judgment, my suggestions, like defend myself in general, I mean. The same thing came up in my final class where we were working in our group running this theoretical company in an online simulation and you know, one thing that came up in the first couple of weeks, we had five different products, that we split amongst the five of us in the group. And after the first round, our TA told us we had to price on my product too low and in subsequent weeks I suggested we not lower it by as much and I've really had to argue with the group and on multiple occasions they did not take my suggestion and my lowering of the price didn't hurt us at all. It hurt us with that specific product in simulation and it's one of those "I told you so" moments to the point where I eventually, I just lowered the amount, thus actively contributing to the group just because I felt that they really didn't care anyway.

(Pause): [00:34:31 00:34:56]

CLIENT: I feel like I'm always second guessing what I would say or do.

(Pause): [00:35:08 00:35:40]

THERAPIST: So when other people doubt your judgment you then begin to doubt your judgment?

(Pause): [00:35:47 00:35:52]

CLIENT: In many cases, yeah.

(Pause): [00:35:55 00:36:16]

CLIENT: And I think that's one thing I've done to bigger issues with me and Liam is that I always felt the one person I shouldn't have to defend or explain myself to, I would many times find myself in that position.

(Pause): [00:36:40 00:39:37]

THERAPIST: What are you thinking about?

CLIENT: Nothing really, right now. My mind's just wandering.

(Pause): [00:39:45 00:39:49]

THERAPIST: Wandering to?

(Pause): [00:39:49 00:39:57]

CLIENT: Wandering across work and Liam and basically everything we just talked about, thinking back on it.

THERAPIST: Do you miss Liam?

(Pause): [00:40:12 00:40:22]

CLIENT: Yeah, in some form.

(Pause): [00:40:22 00:40:37]

CLIENT: I mean we still talk and we got together last Wednesday for dinner, so -

(Pause): [00:40:49 00:41:02]

CLIENT: You know, I'm just having him in other ways in my life.

(Pause): [00:41:08 [00:41:28]

CLIENT: Lately I've been thinking about how certain things I I feel like a lot of stuff is put on me during the process and I have no problem admitting my own faults. I really, I've been thinking about situations lately where technically I'm not 100% to blame in all this.

(Pause): [00:42:07 00:42:12]

CLIENT: You know there's plenty of times the ball was in his court for something and he just didn't pick it up.

THERAPIST: (Unclear) volleyball game (unclear).

CLIENT: (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:42:35 00:42:42]

CLIENT: I always liked joking about that one. What kind of people make their blind son play volleyball?

THERAPIST: Do you think it's a joke and then also, not a joke?

CLIENT: Yeah, a little bit.

THERAPIST: (Unclear) because it's a bit twisted.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And twisted is sort of the first level and there's really not a level of what was going on in your parents' mind. What were they trying to make sense of, or trying to do in doing that?

CLIENT: You know, I like to look at it like they were trying to keep me involved and make sure I had a semi-normal life without taking into consideration, you know? Putting me in a position where I feel more self-conscious and a little embarrassed is not the way I would about all that.

(Pause): [00:43:55 00:44:03]

THERAPIST: Do you feel at times they just wanted to ignore your condition?

CLIENT: No. I feel at times the exact opposite. They put too much emphasis on it.

THERAPIST: How would they do that?

CLIENT: Worrying too much. You know, I believe when I was like maybe five or six, probably six my aunt and cousin were going to this dinner/show like thing down in Maryland Medieval Times, where it's basically set up as an arena and there's like jousting type stuff. It's a really fun show for kids and they were going to that and they had an extra ticket and so they would bring me along which they ended up doing and my cousin actually just recently told me a couple of years ago that my mother made this big deal about it like he's not going to have any fun because he can't see it and just a bunch of stuff like that. And you know, I went and I had a really good time even if I couldn't see everything that was going on and I think that's it. Not that they tried to ignore it, but they focused too much on it.

THERAPIST: Like your teachers.

CLIENT: Pretty much.

THERAPIST: Benjamin, we're going to have to stop for today. So I will see you in two weeks and I hope you have a good fourth, okay?

CLIENT: You too.

THERAPIST: Okay. Take care.

END TRANSCRIPT