TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

(pause 00:00:00 – 00:00:18)

CLIENT: So, a party this weekend. And I don’t know. I ran into old friends that—I feel like I had seen them recently. Yeah. Like actually, I hadn’t really in two or three years which felt very weird. Because I’m like, “No. It’s more like one year.” But it was probably three. And one of them was this guy, Kevin, who was had been trying to hook me up with someone in the diversity office which I had kind of dropped just because I’m really tired. It just seemed—

THERAPIST: He was like the operator guy?

CLIENT: Yeah. And so I was talking to him and I mentioned that (pause 00:01:17 00:01:21)—so, I wasn’t drinking at all. He offered me—he said, “Do you want anything?” I said, “No,” because the level of (inaudible) I’m on makes me—like I can have one drink maybe. And come on it’s either okay or horrible, horrible mistake. So, I was just like let’s just not. And also I feel I don’t know about how this feels with switching (inaudible). And so, I sort of said, “Yeah. Switch your medications has been really difficult.” And, you know, also (inaudible) do with school.

THERAPIST: Also what was the last one?

CLIENT: And also like finishing off school. And he just made this sort of positive comment that—it’s really stuck with me which was, “So, like, you’re saying that you’re dealing with some major mental health stuff and your job is really stressful and you’re going to school. So, how are you doing all of that?” I’m like, “Yeah. That’s a fair point.” Plus I have a mentoring program. (pause 00:02:37 – 00:02:44) I don’t know. When he said that I just kept thinking like, “I think I made a mistake somewhere.” Like this is a lot. (pause 00:02:51 00:02:57) And maybe I should be a little less hard on myself about like—I didn’t do any of my school work last week. I didn’t do the readings. Didn’t go (inaudible). Nothing.

And I was just feeling terrible about it. And then I thought, “Well, yes. But, you know, also I was busy with a lot of other things.” (pause 00:03:19 00:03:31) But like also I was kind of thinking—I’ve been kind of thinking also (inaudible) like how have I been doing? How have I been doing all of this for several years? (pause 00:03:40 00:03:44) Like so Ashby and I have been living in our new apartment for almost a year. And recently, we were both like, “Huh. The last probably like six months or so our old apartment was really horrible.” Like more horrible than we—either of us was sort of prepared to acknowledge at the time. (pause 00:04:07 00:04:15) And I think—oh, right. So, Dana was saying that—she’s like, “You know, both of us being a little stoners for six months probably helped her not be an alcoholic and me not become a prescription pill addict.

THERAPIST: Are you being poetic? Oh, you guys were stoners?

CLIENT: We just decided. Decided. I mean there’s smoking pot like every day for six months. (laughter) Because yeah. It’s very stressful. I guess not every day, but I quite a bit. And Ashby’s sort of (inaudible), but that doesn’t mean I—no one became an alcoholic or a pain pill addict. True. Very true. All we did was order a lot of take out. (laughter) Which we really didn’t. It’s kind of weird. But the more that I look back on that I’m just like, “What?” Like that was (pause 00:05:11 00:05:22)—in terms of like that like—just dealing with the like—crazy landlord and trying to move and being worried about him and doing like anything because I felt like everything—like I mean weird things kind of on the table.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I remember.

CLIENT: (pause 00:05:41 00:05:46) And so both of us were looking back. We’re, “Yeah. That was,”—like (pause 00:05:51 00:05:55) even though like—I definitely talked about it being horrible. It was really horrible.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You were really frightened and creeped out.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It was really creepy stuff.

CLIENT: It was. And I still (pause 00:06:13 00:06:18)—I don’t know. Like when I—the friends that I mentioned some things he did—like I’ll say, “Fuck. That was bizarre.” Like I don’t know. Just or someone else will just look at me like, “Oh, you’re making that up.” No. That really, totally happened. (pause 00:06:37 00:06:45) So, getting through that, you know, relatively intact and it probably didn’t actually impact of ever (inaudible) items without losing it was good. (pause 00:06:58 00:07:02) Both Ashby and I like discovered various things disappeared. We’re like, “Well, like,”—(laughter) we’re rather just rebuy it. I mean you always lose some things in moving, but this was very much a like—

THERAPIST: It’s gone. Yeah.

CLIENT: Salt and burn the house (ph). (laughter) Like if we could have, we would have. (pause 00:07:21 00:07:28) But (pause 00:07:28 00:07:34) I’m getting glad I’m finishing school without debt, but I think this is one of those times when I’m like I would actually—I mean this isn’t really true. But like right now I would just like some debt. Like I’d rather work half time and have debt than I have to work full time. (pause 00:07:56 00:08:04) And, you know, part of it is just—part of what’s frustrating is that part of the stress is just the stupid office set up. Which is like my cube and Chet’s cube to space each other. Like they’re (cross talk). And it stresses me out. I don’t like starting at him all day. I find it weird.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) him starting at you all day either.

CLIENT: Yeah. And like I don’t like—I get over here. Like (pause 00:08:41 00:08:45) I get over him having conversations. Like I have having a conversation with one of my coworkers and talking about her performance. And I was just like, “I don’t want to be here for this conversation. Then Karl will just come into the cubes and like sort of stand directly in front of me talking to Chet. As if like a, I’m not there which is like weird. Like he’ll just start talking to Chet about something and I’m just like, “Okay. But why didn’t you get Chet—buzz Chet to your office?” Like why? Why are we discussing this really loudly? Why are you surprised when I respond? Why is this happening? (pause 00:09:26 00:09:40)

I don’t know. It just really struck me. The other thing that also struck me was (pause 00:09:47 00:09:53) I still have a fear of public speaking. Like even though I have done that a lot, I find it really scary. And usually, I mean—actually, always I’m super anxious leading up to the actual talking part. (00:10:15 00:10:21) And someone had mentioned that (pause 00:10:25 00:10:32) they thought that like doing (pause 00:10:33 00:10:37) professional—like certain kinds of—certain home bloggers like (inaudible) if I was blogging a lot about something in my field that that’s kind of like talking in public as well. (pause 00:10:52 00:10:58) Except like asynchronous, but it has like a lot of the same stressors of shit. Everybody’s going to read it? What if everyone hates it? You know, just sort of spread out a little differently.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:11:11 00:11:19) That reminds me of what you mentioned last week. The comment that got picked up.

CLIENT: Yes. That was—

THERAPIST: That was sort of—turned out to be a kind of unwitting public speaking. But—

CLIENT: Yeah. No. A lot of me freaking out about that was—I mean some of the meetings I felt like what I don’t want—when I don’t want to do public speaking. Or talk about something. And then like a couple of people I know were also talking about (pause 00:11:53 00:11:57) bloggers who kind of try to monetize and turn their blogging or tweeting or whatever into a job or like try to get a job at a magazine or book deal or whatever. Or as people were like, “Meh. This is just—this is the thing that I’m doing.” (pause 00:12:12 00:12:18) And particularly a friend of mine, Marshall, had (pause 00:12:20 00:12:24)—it’s really weird. So, there’s an article that was talking about like online city. And the reporter—I mean interviewed her, but also kind of weirdly laid the blame for all of (inaudible) Texas City at the feet of this friend of mine. And I was like, “That’s what?” Which was like bizarre for many, many (inaudible). For many, many, many reasons. And like—

THERAPIST: And it is not to be all your friend’s fault?

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s weird. It’s weird. It’s especially not all her fault. I know strangely. And I mean she can be a total asshole, but she usually—she’s not usually mean for no reason. Like by being an asshole, I mean she’s not very—if she isn’t being diplomatic, you will really just hear it straight from her and like she’s very fiercely protective of her children. (pause 00:13:41 00:13:45) And stuff. So, when it became really clear that she wanted to talk about this article is that several feminist bloggers, who had sort of tried to, leverage their blogging into paid gigs like had resentment and fear with Marshall (ph). Which is weird because that’s not what she’s trying to do.

So, there was this weird thing of her being like, “I’m just trying to (inaudible) about stuff.” And sometimes there are things I talked about that (inaudible). They’re not. And what it made me think is like, you know, after dealing with a lot of stress and weirdness from like blogging, like—well, a, I’ve never wanted to monetize my wording because I don’t want to. And I don’t want to be famous for it. And I don’t like (pause 00:15:02 00:15:07)—I mean in the end I’m kind of like I am talking to my friends on the Internet. Like and sometimes it is better, but like mostly I’m like—I feel like the reason why I’m blogging is because I’m talking to my friends on the Internet. Not because of whatever.

THERAPIST: You’re not (inaudible) your audience.

CLIENT: Yeah. Not particularly. Yeah. Friends are friends for like—but it’s not something I’m actively doing. And (pause 00:15:38 00:15:42) I’ve had like strangers or people that know me very well either assume that I want a book deal or criticize me for not trying to like get a magazine column or something or something out of it. Which I always find like—I find it very disconcerting because (pause 00:16:03 00:16:07) I don’t know—I just sort am like, “But why would I want to do that? What is it that I’m doing that makes you think that I’m trying to monetize some conversations I’m having?”

But it also makes me feel like, “Are you,”—like do you think you’re interacting with Julia Starkey (ph) the brand because I’m not a brand. (laughter) And it seems that some people do think that like —I don’t know. That I come up with positions or think things—like I don’t—like I’m not sincere in my beliefs. But I’m sincere in maintaining a brand like—like which also is very creepy to me. (pause 00:16:59 00:17:03) And part of the thing with this blog comment which kind of blew up is that in the end I would be totally happy if like—I don’t know. Only my friends and friends of friends ever read what I wrote online. Like I don’t, you know, I don’t want to be a library burner and shaker blogger. Like I just want to go to a library and have a job and to be nice and not be stressed.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:17:40 00:18:02) I mean my sense is like (pause 00:18:03 00:18:09) you actively don’t want that sort of exposure.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And it makes you very anxious.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean the other thing that—

THERAPIST: Kind of vulnerable.

CLIENT: Yes. Like in that blog comment where I was like, “I don’t,”—I don’t tell personal stories to make a point anymore.” I don’t want to. (pause 00:18:45 00:18:49) A lot of how I sort of conceived of like, I guess, political blogging or when I am writing about something that’s political. Or is that—I don’t think that I’m anyone special. Like I’m just a person and some opinions. And there are many people who like are much more qualified than I am to talk about like racial discrimination in libraries or gender discrimination or whatever. (pause 00:19:27 00:19:31) And so, mostly I end up feeling like (pause 00:19:34 00:19:39) I don’t want someone to listen to what I have to say on the same level as someone who like—I’m like, “He has really thought about this for like ten years.” I’m like ding, ding. Like me, this other person. And I’m not interested in making myself like that person. Like I don’t want to be that person. (pause 00:20:00 00:20:18) Sorry. There’s a good (inaudible) I lost which was I guess talking to someone about this.

THERAPIST: Is this someone who is sort of pushing you to—

CLIENT: No. This is actually someone who was (pause 00:20:38 00:20:41) talking about how one of the—she’s (inaudible) like not telling stories and like not making it like super personal. And the problem of this woman is a, was lesbian. And she’s like, “I have—I’m very happy to talk about being lesbian or to be one.” But I don’t want to be like forcing the position of talking for all (inaudible) lesbians and giving you the solution to like 60 years of gender (inaudible). Like I would actually like to do the work that I—my job. And also talk about that a little bit.

THERAPIST: I see. It seems to me there’s a (pause 00:21:45 00:21:49) important distinction there. (pause 00:21:50 00:21:55) Or maybe it’s just something I didn’t understand. She’s not just sort of not wanting the exposure. (pause 00:22:09 00:22:14) She’s sort of not wanting to deal with the (pause 00:22:16 00:22:20)—I don’t know how to say it. Like role of spokesperson. (pause 00:22:25 00:22:29) Into which she—

CLIENT: (pause 00:22:31 00:22:36) Is being thrust?

THERAPIST: Something like that. Yeah. Like there’s something that’s being done to her here. It’s not just that—I mean when you were talking about it I sort of had the sense in my head that you didn’t want the exposure because you don’t like that. But what she’s talking about isn’t quite that. It’s something a little bit different. More like people do something to her. They thrust her into the role of spokesperson or something which is making me wonder how much that is also part of it for you. You know, how much is just about sort of closure and (inaudible) and not wanting that and how much that’s in part because of the kind of things she’s referring to. And maybe it’s not separate, but I don’t know.

CLIENT: I don’t know. So, she was also talking about, like, there are a lot of things that she’s interested in talking about but that she’s not like necessarily qualified to being the speaker on all these topics, for example. So, she’s like, “You know, I do have a lot to say about gender and (inaudible) and all this stuff, but that’s because I’ve also like thought about it and whatever. I also really like interlibrary loan, but no one—I don’t really know much about it. I’m just like that’s an interesting topic.” And—

THERAPIST: Is this the person from the conference that you had mentioned? (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. And then that’s kind of how I felt. I was like, “Yes.” Like there are a lot of topics I’m really interested in. (pause 00:24:18 00:24:22) And I don’t (pause 00:24:24 00:24:28) like (pause 00:24:29 00:24:35) I just—part of what makes me uncomfortable—it’s something that was like, “Wow. This was such a good thought,” is that half the time I’m like, “But it’s like—that was not an original thought I had there.” Like (inaudible), “Well, you know, I think I agree with what I said and blah, blah, blah, blah.” I said it for a reason. But it’s not actually life changing. Like it’s not actually life changing (inaudible) brilliant or insightful. Like other people have said similar things, I guess.

And so, I see myself as being like, I guess, part of a conversation people are having about this topic. And I’m also sees me as like the one person talking. And I also dislike that. Because it feels like—it feels a lot like (inaudible) and like I am the person that happened to come across their radar and wasn’t mean. Or speaks in a way that they find familiar, so they’re like, “Oh, okay. Clearly, she’s the reasonable respondent.” (pause 00:25:53 00:26:00) And I also really dislike (pause 00:26:00 00:26:02 00:26:06)—it’s (inaudible). So, Marshall, who can be an asshole, sometimes I think to myself like, “Marshall, do you really need to be that abrasive? Like is that strictly necessary?” But (pause 00:26:21 00:26:27), you know, I’m also like, “Well, what you’re saying is—like I totally agree with what you’re saying.”

So, I don’t know like if what you are saying is true or important. Like it doesn’t necessarily matter. It doesn’t necessarily matter that you’re not using the—you’re not couching it in any of those diplomatic whatever terms. And I think a lot of it comes down to like I’m totally capable of very carefully couching like diplomatic like mistakes were made message. And I often do. And Marshall never does. And I actually—like I do admire her sometimes for being like, “(inaudible), no. This is just what I think and if you disagree with me you’re an asshole.” I’m like (inaudible) true. Like you’re defending Woody Allen and I don’t want to talk to you ever. So, might as well say it that way. (pause 00:27:30 00:27:34) But then like I don’t like being credited as being less reasonable because it took me a while to figure—to kind of get like—it’s not that I’m more reasonable and it’s that like—it’s not that what I’m saying is—

THERAPIST: I’m imagine you don’t like—you find that confrontation really uncomfortable and frightening. I get the sense that you probably often respond diplomatically without necessarily planning to. And it would be hard to respond by the right even if 00:28:00 that’s how you feel? Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think some people respond positively to that because it’s not challenging or threatening or (pause 00:28:31 00:28:36) like I’m so—I appeared on television like that’s scary to me. (pause 00:28:41 00:28:47) And yeah. Like I guess I just sometimes wish I could—yeah. Like sort of say it plainly instead of spending all this time like trying to think of the perfect way. Or worrying like, “What if I didn’t say it quite right? Or what if,”—I don’t know. Yeah. (pause 00:29:15 00:29:28) And, of course there’s much higher stakes that like when we’re talking about, you know, like race and gender and sexual orientation and like (inaudible) or something. (pause 00:29:40 00:29:51) So, yeah. You know, I kind of was just thinking that, you know, in a lot of ways like right now what I want is like—I want to sort of magically already be in the (inaudible). Living in a little house working like at a library. Not work on the diversity committee. Not working on like community outreach.

It’s just like (inaudible). Like I don’t know. Being an employee and not being like stuck with a job of thinking, “I’m talking about diversity,” but having it as an option if I wanted to. (pause 00:30:34 00:30:42) When, I mean right now especially at work (pause 00:30:44 00:30:47) I feel like if I don’t—like (pause 00:30:49 00:30:51) I mean 00:31:00 (inaudible) library, it’s really stressful and I sort of get like stopped talking about a lot of—in the (inaudible) work. It’s stressful and it doesn’t go anywhere. But then I also get frustrated because no one else will talk about it. (pause 00:31:09 00:31:14) And I dislike both options. (pause 00:31:17 00:32:21) This is probably also this week’s assignment for classes to think of our dream library job. (laughter) Which really got me (cross talk). (pause 00:32:33 00:32:38)

Because a big part of my dream job would be like using the—doing the things that I know how to do well and being able to do those things. Whereas right now, I feel like (pause 00:32:54 00:32:59) I can’t or (pause 00:33:01 00:33:05)—either it’s not possible for me to use a lot of like skills and knowledge I have at work. (pause 00:33:14 00:33:22) And then sort of like sit around watching someone else get handed that and then have asking it and just being like, “Well, I could have—oh well.” (pause 00:33:32 00:33:44) And then (inaudible) is like (pause 00:33:46 00:33:49) tall, (inaudible). Like Karl completely incoherently trying to talk myself up in digital media. And Chet getting handed things or offered things where I’m like, “I think I know a lot about that.” But I, you know—but I don’t get—I can’t offer you—like you won’t accept help from me or suggestions. And I can’t do it because I don’t know. Like because I’m not an employee and I like (inaudible) reasons. And (pause 00:34:38 00:34:43) it’s super frustrating. Like much more frustrating then when I’ve had like—I’ve had these jobs that do not like engage my brain cells very much because that was the point of the job. I didn’t get the work. But yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. The point of this one is to spend as much time as possible doing cool library stuff.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I just keep on vacillating between like I guess basically it’s really hard to not want to do cool library things in the end. (pause 00:35:22 00:35:26) So, while I try to not because it’s going to be frustrating, it’s also frustrating to sort of sitting there thinking of like we could do this or this or this. But it won’t happen.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:35:40 00:36:31) It almost seems like you’re describing is being put in these kind of passive (pause 00:36:42 00:36:45) position rather. People whether by, you know, becoming them as a token spokesperson. Or person who had race or race or gender (inaudible). (pause 00:37:02 00:37:06) Or in a way like by your own sense of—any sense of our (inaudible) has potentially the same effect of like (pause 00:37:20 00:37:24) putting you in a relative more passive and less sort of (inaudible) even when you’re feeling those ways. And also, (pause 00:37:32 00:37:36) in different ways. It sounds like the same kind of thing with what you’re talking about now how (pause 00:37:41 00:37:47) what you want to do and what you’re good at, totally ignore it. And you’re helpless.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:37:55 00:38:00) And (pause 00:38:00 00:38:06) and this is (inaudible) to themselves. I gather like more or less (inaudible).

CLIENT: (pause 00:38:09 00:38:16) I mean the thing that’s part of the stress of me having this like quote become public is I worry about (pause 00:38:35 00:38:39)—retribution isn’t the word, but—

THERAPIST: (pause 00:38:40 00:38:46) Aggression?

CLIENT: Hmm?

THERAPIST: Aggression?

CLIENT: (pause 00:38:48 00:38:55) I feel like if like—I don’t know. Like if someone was a creepy stalker and like combed through my tweets or comments or whatever you could easily—you could put together like a picture of the Cambridge system. That’s not very kind. And I worry that—about getting punished for that. Like I don’t mention Cambridge, you know, blah, blah, blah. But (pause 00:39:33 00:39:45) it just—it’s (pause 00:39:45 00:39:53)—it’s frustrating how—like how nervous or so concerned I get about (pause 00:40:00 00:40:04) negative consequences. Of saying like, “Yes. It’s kind of sucky over here.”

Or even just I have some information that I would like to share (inaudible) share that. Like this all seems so fraught. (pause 00:40:20 00:40:27) It feels like, you know, (inaudible) of Cambridge. (inaudible) (pause 00:40:33 00:40:44) I know—I mean I know there is a lot of that is (pause 00:40:47 00:40:53) I don’t (pause 00:40:53 00:40:58)—I don’t think that like my white coworkers or my (inaudible) like up. I think they all believe quite firmly that there are not discriminatory hiring—like there’s no discrimination in hiring. And like no one discriminates hiring or assigning work or just like all of those—that just is not happening. And so the reaction to someone saying, “Well, I feel this way,” would be to really—just like a very intense, “No. You’re crazy. You’re lying. You’re disruptive. You’re (inaudible) is up.”

THERAPIST: (pause 00:41:50 00:41:57) That is the response you have consistently gotten when you have sort of more and less directly (inaudible) stuff like that as far as I know.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause 00:42:07 00:42:17) So, I guess this—this getting noticed online—in a fashion makes me feel just very paranoid about like—

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I guess I feel—it make some feel kind of like I’m having a conversation with friends some place and someone is over hearing. And I get that in a conversation you have in public people can see or hear it.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:42:43 00:42:48) Right. But it’s really hard to, you know, go around whenever you’re out with your friends at a restaurant or something and imagine that our boss might happen to be at that table.

CLIENT: Right. Like it’s one thing if I was eating at the public faculty club versus—I don’t know. It’s like at some crappy diner in (inaudible). Like I think just (pause 00:43:06 00:43:11)—yeah.

THERAPIST: We need to stop.

CLIENT: Yeah. Okay. So, next week, Wednesday.

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