TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

(pause 00:00:00 00:00:11)

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: Hi. (pause 00:00:12 00:00:17) (inaudible)—I’m having a not great week. I guess I’m continuing to have a not great week and weekend. (pause 00:00:27 00:00:31) This weekend I was feeling like very—I just feeling like isolated from my friends. So I called Jamie to see how she was doing. (pause 00:00:45 00:00:50) Which turned into—it was like half a good conversation and half super frustrating. So Jamie is now the doctor and doing her residency. And so—

THERAPIST: Is she up here or is she—

CLIENT: She’s in Utah.

THERAPIST: Okay. That’s right. You mentioned that I think.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I’ve had to tell her before like, “You’re not my doctor.” So I like if I call and talk to you about medical stuff—or just like I feel (inaudible) like I don’t, you know. (pause 00:01:27 00:01:32) And so I was just (inaudible) just kind of like anything that she’d be like, “Oh.” Like, again, I’d say like, “I fell and had to get stitches.” “How many? What kind? Did they use a suture?” I’m like, “I don’t know. They doctor did things.” But I was—she had been feeling really depressed and overwhelmed during her residency and was really worried that she wouldn’t be able to finish.

THERAPIST: Yes. Now I remember we talked about her once I think.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so—

THERAPIST: (cross talk) was pretty overwhelming for her.

CLIENT: Yeah. So, you know, I wanted to see how that was going. She got a dog. Or adopted a dog to kind of help with feeling depressed. So, like first we just talked about like pets in a nice, you know, crazy pet owner way. (pause 00:02:26 00:02:32) So then I tried—it was—I was trying to talk to her about how I felt and that I just like that—I really wasn’t feeling good and I haven’t been feeling very good mentally. In that like I’m getting super frustrated because I’m just like I feel horrible and felt horrible for a very long time. And I would like it to stop or get better. (pause 00:02:56 00:03:02) And even though I tried Cymbalta and was off Cymbalta.

And her first response is, “Why Cymbalta instead of something something?” And I was like, “I don’t—like a, I don’t what that other drug is and b, my psychiatrist and I talked about it.” (pause 00:03:18 – 00:03:24) And that was just like not—it was kind of the opposite of how I wanted her to respond. (pause 00:03:31 00:03:36) And she really wanted to talk about (pause 00:03:41 00:03:47) my medication which I didn’t want to. Like that wasn’t why I called. And she’s like, “Oh, yeah. You need two weeks to be feeling (inaudible).”

THERAPIST: A consult?

CLIENT: Yeah. And I was like, “No. It’s not really going to be that way.” But like I know that I will not feel better in two weeks of increased (inaudible) her, but not if I increase Lexapro. But it was really frustrating. And so I ended the conversation by saying, “I had to cook dinner.” And it was part of why I was so frustrated. Like not only is she not my doctor and I wasn’t calling for a consult, I had been taking psychiatric medicine longer than she’s been in medical school. (laughter) Like yeah. And I think right now is the first time she’s I think probably (inaudible) voluntarily. So like, you know, like one of us has more experience and also she’s not my doctor.

THERAPIST: I see. But I guess there’s two things though. Like one of them is not her role. And the other is it’s really presumptuous. [00:05:15]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean like it would have been different I guess if you had been—new medication. She had been—you know she’s a 55-year-old psychiatrist who had been practicing for 20 years or something. And like you had been complaining about a side effect and she made a comment. Like that still might not be what you wanted from her, but it wouldn’t be presumptuous.

CLIENT: Right. Yes. I talked to her I think about Lexapro and (inaudible) interaction. And she’s like, “Oh, yeah. That,”—I’m like, “Yep. I found out about that the crappy way.” And so we talked about that briefly. But yeah. It was just sort of like I—this is really like I don’t want to insult you but like you just started this. And I get that medical school is a lot of things and blah, blah, blah, but you just started and you’re not my doctor. And you don’t know everything I’m taking. And still not my doctor. And then she lectured me on drinking and smoking pot. Which was weird in a lot of ways because I’m not really drinking. [00:06:35]

I didn’t ask about it and I have zero interest in discussing like THC and cannabinoids. I just don’t care. (laughter) Yeah. And I could not get her off that. So, that didn’t really help. Like I felt less isolated, but I didn’t feel any better which sucked. And also Ashby commented that—like we were sitting (inaudible) and she asked me several times. Like, “Are you doing okay?” And I finally said like, “Do I seem worse?” She’s like, “Yes. You seem extra crazy.”

THERAPIST: This is after talking to Jamie?

CLIENT: Before talking to her. Like one of the reasons why I decided to call her is I was like, “Well, if I’m being extra, extra crazy, this would be an even better good time to call.” (pause 00:07:39 – 00:07:43) And I also hate to feel like I’m imposing on Ashby. (pause 00:07:53 00:07:59) But on the other hand, I’d like—I have a hard time. Like we were—I mean I was having a hard time following PD, having a hard time breathing, or just like concentrating on following anything which is super like not normal. (pause 00:08:19 00:08:23) And she wanted to marathon a TV show and I was just like, “I can’t concentrate,” but I’ll just lie here on the sofa for awhile.

THERAPIST: Just so I’m clear that—that I’m not yet sure what to say about it. I get it. (inaudible) thinking of it about you are like feeling worse. Or (inaudible). (pause 00:09:06 00:09:11) Without, I mean, you know, some of it was related to trying the Cymbalta. (pause 00:09:18 00:09:28) I mean we haven’t talked much as that. There are other bad things that are going on, but (pause 00:09:33 – 00:09:37) like this other work doesn’t (inaudible) bad. But it’s not necessarily worse than some other things that have happened at work.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like I think that’s part of why I’m just sort of sitting here feeling frustrated is that I feel like the Cymbalta didn’t work. I’m like, “Okay. Well, that’s like whatever time.” And I feel like—so now I’m up to the amount of Lexapro that she wants me to be taking. And I think it’s like one last week of Cymbalta to taper off it. And—

THERAPIST: Is Lexapro what you were on before?

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. Lexapro and Wellbutrin. And I’ve stayed on Wellbutrin the whole time. [00:10:30]

THERAPIST: And I’m sorry. Why did you switch? I forget whether it was you were feeling worse or was it a side effect that led her to (cross talk) you switch to Cymbalta.

CLIENT: I was feeling worse and I was crying periodically. Just like suddenly weepy. (pause 00:10:54 – 00:10:59) Although no one when (inaudible), so I don’t know.

THERAPIST: You mean like as you had on Cymbalta. That week after we met.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Week beginning after we met. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s very like I’m seeing Dr. Gerrard (ph) in I think a week or so. Beginning of April. And I talked to her about this. I was like, “I just feel really crappy.” And she was of the opinion that it’s sort of in between anything working. Like the Cymbalta is down. (inaudible) up enough to kick in. Which like I’m willing to go with that for a little bit. But not much longer. Like I really am done. Or like not (inaudible) but like I just feel miserable and I don’t feel like there’s anything that is helping right now. (pause 00:12:13 – 00:12:19) And for me at least to add to the frustration is the things that I normally do to distract myself I’m just having a really hard time doing. (pause 00:12:31 – 00:12:38) Like I was at a (inaudible) yesterday. Which was like (inaudible). And I was like, “Yeah. Okay.” But it was weird.

I had a really hard time following the directions. Like, you know, I’d have to ask her to repeat. And I’m just like, “Oh.” And I just felt like just—I don’t know. Like clumsy and slow and like just sort of like I know I know how to do this. Like why can’t I do this? And I felt the same way like when I was trying to sew—I was trying to like sew quilt squares or something. And I was just like, “Ugh.” This is a straight seam. I know how to sew that. This shouldn’t be hard. It should be nice little doh, doh, doh, doh, doh. And then with having like TV and books aren’t really working either. I’m just like, “Okay. Well, what do I do?” Like, you know? [00:14:00]

And the other thing which was—is super frustrating work thing but not actually about work. So, Chet’s gone for two weeks which is great. It’s Cambridge spring break right now which is nice. So, I decide to get myself set up with (inaudible) and do some brainstorming for a couple things. And like Monday I just really barely made it through the day. I just kind of sat at my desk and like, “I feel really upset. I can’t concentrate. I cannot go home right now.” But I also probably can sit here and not like waste vacation time. And I want to go to this class anyway. And I just could not—like I couldn’t do the simple thing of like, “Okay. Let’s try running some words on a white board.” And I tried to do that again today. And it really didn’t work.

And (pause 00:15:03 – 00:15:07) I ended up getting really frustrated—it would be at work. A, because we had this—another horrible staff meeting. And Karl was explaining how—one of his new visions for whatever. And he was just—and I had asked what staff space was (inaudible) there going to be any—an expansion of that?” And so he kind of muttered various things and he’s like, “Well,”—he started making commenting. He’s like, “Well, there’s really nowhere else to go.” I’m like, “Oh, I could go back to my old office space.” He’s like, “Oh, no. No. We can’t do that. I mean when people were just crammed in there. I don’t know if you—if you were aware then.” I was like, “Yeah. I sat there for like four to five years.” I was aware of it. And he said, “This is just so terrible,” and blah, blah. I’m like, “Ugh.”

Like it was weird because he was telling me how horrible it was. And how they wanted to use it for something else, but they couldn’t. And finally I was like, “I really liked it. I had more work space. I could think. It was great.” And he—like just kept on talking like I hadn’t said anything. Which that did almost send me—made me burst in tears. But I managed not to. (pause 00:16:34 – 00:16:38) Mostly because these changes probably aren’t going to happen for another year or so. So, hey. I may not be here which (pause 00:16:45 00:16:50) is also like (pause 00:16:51 00:17:00)—so (inaudible) headed the concept of Cambridge. I would have kind of liked my—

THERAPIST: You’re head of the concept?

CLIENT: Yes. The concept is it’s not a Cambridge system or Cambridge. There’s Cambridge. So conceptually all of the schools are actually just one school. Yeah. As I said, it’s conceptual. (laughter) It’s very conceptual. It’s (inaudible) they talk about Cambridge. I’m just like, “What?” So she’s doing that. So she’s part of that.

THERAPIST: The head of that is something you liked?

CLIENT: Yeah. Like they hired (inaudible) first. And I was like, “Oh, she didn’t seem to be an idiot.” I kind of tended to (inaudible) her. I don’t want to throw up with stress when I talk to her. And they’re hiring for new positions. And everyone they’re interviewing for (inaudible) is white again. And she kind of set up this like—her office sent out an e-mail about like, you know, what are some things that you think about the new Cambridge that would be helpful? And also sent out e-mail about you can nominate coworkers or other people for an award. Like people who did really—and so they listed like six things. And one of them was promoted diversity in the work place. And I was just like mm-mmm. Like (pause 00:18:47 00:18:51) that line just made me really (pause 00:18:54 00:19:00)—I don’t know. Like it kind of crystallized like all my frustrations at that moment when I was at my e-mail.

And so I really just wanted to write to the new head of the Cambridge school and say like, “The thing that the most difficult at work is that you just keep on hiring white people. Could you please stop that? Thanks.” (pause 00:19:22 00:19:26) But I don’t think I actually want to do that. Like for—like, you know, I do and I don’t. (pause 00:19:31 00:19:38) And trying to write was—made me want to cry. Not writing it made me want to cry. (pause 00:19:42 00:19:47) And I kind of thought today was going to be a great week because Chet’s not here. But as it turned out staring at his desk is also—is just irritating or stressful or something. And I just feel so mentally crappy that, you know, like I guess I can’t really enjoy the benefits of not having him around. Whatever that might be.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:20:15 00:21:39) And that sort of was approximately because (inaudible) was stressful?

CLIENT: (pause 00:21:44 – 00:21:48) It’s a couple of things like (pause 00:21:51 00:21:58) on Monday no one is in the office except for me and a student worker. And I realized that like I actually also just hate the office space. Like it’s cramped. I feel like I never (inaudible) anything. And I also dislike—just like—I don’t know. Like there’s not enough room for anything, so in order for me to try to use the (inaudible) into this cube. Which also reminds me like I can’t get in—I can’t wheel a chair—my own chair in and out of my cube. I have to lift it because the passageway is so narrow. Yeah. And I also can’t use my white board because walking in and out of my cube erases it because it’s so narrow. And I hate it. So (pause 00:23:05 00:23:10) yeah.

I just trying to sort of (pause 00:23:14 00:23:19)—it’s like setting up the white board in his cube just made me among other things hate my space even more. (pause 00:23:26 00:23:31) And I think I am going to just say fuck it and like go work among the student spaces. Get away from everyone. (pause 00:23:41 00:23:49) But also like I feel like I’m still (pause 00:23:51 00:24:05)—I guess it’s like one of the things is also just Chet’s lack of—I don’t know. Like common courtesy, politeness, whatever. Somebody told me about is to (inaudible) vacation the day before he left. And I was like, “Oh. Okay.”

THERAPIST: Oh. You mean not that he described where he was going, but that he let you know he was going to be gone. Not having let you know before.

CLIENT: Yeah. Also he didn’t—I didn’t know it was for two weeks. And (inaudible) he’s in Australia. And when he said it, I was kind of like, “Oh, so I’ll see you Friday, tomorrow.” And he’s like, “Oh, nope. I’m going (inaudible).” And I was just sort of like, “But how do you disappear for two weeks and not tell me?” Like I work right here. Allegedly, you supervise me in some weird way. And then he also hadn’t told his—any of his student works. So, after telling me, I was just sort of staring at him frankly. He’s like, “Oh, I have to remember to e-mail the students that they shouldn’t try to text me or e-mail me because I’ll be out of the country.”

And I was like, “What the fuck?” Like I hope they have something to do. I guess I mean I don’t super care because I’m (inaudible) getting paid to do nothing, I guess. But it’s just (pause 00:25:40 00:25:46)—it’s just really weird. Like I’ve—I don’t know. Like everywhere I’ve worked, I’ve kind of let people know. Even if like they’re not—they don’t have to clear your vacation. You’re just like, “Oh, yeah. I’m going to Australia in two weeks. So, if there’s anything you need from me,” (pause 00:26:07 00:26:17) and it’s just like—he’s so weirdly blasé about it. Like this is totally normal. And one I’ve like—

THERAPIST: Like (inaudible) in that way?

CLIENT: Yeah. Because I’m like I’m pretty sure this is not normal. And then also like (inaudible) for me—students whatever. And he acts like I’m a crazy person for asking. I don’t have access to anyone’s schedule, so I don’t know when—I don’t when students are going to be here. But yeah. Like I (inaudible) feeling like I’m the crazy person for (00:27:09 00:27:13) finding his unusual behavior unusual.

THERAPIST: With Karl too? (pause 00:27:17 00:27:21) Because clearly you don’t know about the work space you sat in for four or five years.

CLIENT: With Karl, a lot of it is that the talks about things as if I wasn’t there for them when I was. Or like they directly involved me. (pause 00:27:43 00:27:47) It doesn’t really feel like (inaudible) so much as (00:27:50 – 00:27:54) it just like sort of further, “Are you really that incapable of listening, remembering?” Like if he’s a certain—if you’ve heard what he’s asserting like that he has this like grand sort of overview of what happened and part of that overview is that I hated my office space. And I’m like, “Well, I really can’t trust you in your great, overview plans when you can’t even remember that you made me move into my current space that I hate. That I liked being in that other office space.” And, you know, like it just makes—(pause 00:28:42 – 00:28:46) it makes him like—I just—it makes me feel like he’s even more incompetent than usual. And it’s also (pause 00:28:57 00:29:05)—it’s also just super depressing that he is in charge of anything.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:29:12 00:29:20) Like in the sort of (pause 00:29:22 00:29:26)—

CLIENT: (cross talk)

THERAPIST: demoralizing.

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s demoralizing.

THERAPIST: (cross talk) world sort of way? I can’t think of the right—the word that I (inaudible). Like demoralized about the world and the way it works sort of way.

CLIENT: Yeah. Very much so. And it’s—and part of that also is like I don’t know what—like I don’t know how he does this, but people outside of (inaudible) meeting with him are like, “Oh, he’s so friendly and whatever.” And I’m just like, “He’s the worst manager I’ve had. He’s horrible.” (pause 00:30:08 00:30:14) And (pause 00:30:14 00:30:19) like I made a sort of veiled comment about that to someone I know at work who’s also a conceptual senior manager. And he sort of made this like, “Well, you know,”—like it (inaudible) the mark of, “Well, I’m sure he’s trying really hard and blah, blah, blah.” I (inaudible) like, “Yeah. I guess—oh, right. You’re not actually going to trash the head of the department to me or with me because that’s not really appropriate.” On the other hand, you could just maybe just shrug like I’d prefer a shrug right now. (pause 00:31:03 00:31:19) And yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Some kind of acknowledgement however tacit.

CLIENT: Yes. (pause 00:31:28 00:31:35) And partly we both said like—a couple of people have asked if like Karl or someone in IT has given me more power. And I’m like, “No.”

THERAPIST: Wait. Sorry. If someone—if Karl or someone in IT had given you more power?

CLIENT: Yes. Isaac asked me that. If like, “You see to be—have more authority or control over—or have you been promoted?” I’m like, “No.” Like what happened is that there’s been a bunch of things that if—that no one wanted to deal with because like—is it a local service? Is it a shared service? It’s too small for IT to really care about. And there’s like weird departmental fighting. So, I’ve just been like, “Okay. I’m just going to talk to you about it. Let’s do it.” And I’ve done a couple of those lately. (pause 00:32:39 00:32:48) I just—it’s very weird for—I don’t know. Like it felt weird to—like to be asked if I had been promoted. I’m like, “No. Not at all.” I’m actually doing this because it’s a huge vacuum. But whatever.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:33:02 00:33:17) Gosh. It does sound a little like 1984.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like I just—

THERAPIST: I mean it’s so the opposite of how you’re feeling. The idea that—and in fact the opposite of what actually happened that like you’re sort of being treated—well, respected for what you’re doing, given more responsibility. I mean the opposite of what’s happening is—especially the opposite of like how people are making you feel.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: My point there isn’t (inaudible) how you feel. It’s to say like not that this is not happening, but people are making you feel—yeah. Anyway.

CLIENT: No. Like yeah. Yeah. Like in the last two weeks, there was a change and now I can’t—if someone calls the main IT desk, there’s no way for me to find out. Like it used to be I could look in the (inaudible) system. And they changed and I don’t have access to it. And I’m just like—it’s I’m like, “Okay. I’m not sure how I can do IT work if I can’t see anything.” And like one of the people who answers the phone (inaudible) is really rude and abrasive and can’t remember my name or what I do. Yeah.

THERAPIST: That answers the help desk phone? [00:34:55]

CLIENT: Yeah. But he’s a new hire at the help desk. And yeah. Like every time I call, he doesn’t get my name right. He’s basically like, “What the fuck are you calling for?” And won’t be helpful. Yeah. But and so yeah. And I can’t get around it. Like I can’t get around him by looking into system myself. I can’t like, you know? I’m just sort of like—and I get—I also—like I just don’t understand how anyone could think that I have any more authority or any anything.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean you really have an IT I think.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean completely sort of like—I don’t know. Like (00:36:01 00:36:06) we keep on getting these like weird like party line slogans like the single Cambridge. Everyone goes, “What?” And it’s not really explained. And you’re just like, “Okay. I guess that’s what we’re doing now.” We’re doing modalities which Karl couldn’t explain what he meant by that. (pause 00:36:29 00:36:44) And I think—I mean the other thing is (pause 00:36:46 00:36:52) part of like my frustration and feeling like I don’t have any power is that Chet isn’t backing up on anything. And I’m not part of the IT department.

So they don’t like—they don’t care about what I’m doing. So like a big part of me feels like if I’m really miserable at my job someone should care. But (pause 00:37:27 00:37:32) I feel like I tried to find someone to care. And that’s not working. And like I don’t know if we’re—like I guess recently also I’ve just been more and more being like I would really like to go and sit down with someone. And like say like, “I’m really miserable about these things.” (pause 00:38:00 00:38:04) And (pause 00:38:05 00:38:15) like at this point, I’m sort of like, “Who?” (pause 00:38:17 00:38:26) And that’s really like—it’s super demoralizing. (pause 00:38:31 00:38:37) Like I guess I just want—

THERAPIST: What do you mean to be (inaudible) position you’ve been at for years and years and (inaudible) that you’ve worked—or excuse me. A place that you’ve worked sort of hard and faithfully at for years and the people you’ve worked with for years. And who (pause 00:38:58 00:39:04) (inaudible) to be able to find (inaudible) care.

CLIENT: Yeah. And like (pause 00:39:16 00:39:21) I mean sort of along it like—along with not caring is also not being able to convince people that I know things I know. Like about online safety or security or whatever. So, one of the new employees got tasked with helping—leading a workshop on online safety and like what you get tracked by online, blah, blah, blah. Turns out she doesn’t really do anything online. Like she doesn’t have a Facebook account, hadn’t really seen it. And I just like, “Wow.” Like why are you doing this? Like who assigned this to you? What is happening? So I ended up helping her and giving her a bunch of information on the topic. And during which she’s like, “Oh, I really, really don’t understand this topic.” I’m like, “Yep. That’s true.” Here are some more, you know, (inaudible) questions I guess.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:40:50 00:41:03) Yeah. It’s mind bending.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause 00:41:05 00:41:11) It’s also like in addition to that (pause 00:41:16 00:41:25) there’s sort of another layer of (pause 00:41:27 00:41:32) it’s sometimes the (inaudible) has been there for awhile or like, “Oh, just ignore that.” Or, “Well, why don’t you just do what you want anyway?” I’m like, “Well, you have a (inaudible) job than I do.” And I can ignore some things, but like, you know, the (inaudible) employees have more of an ability to say no than I do. (pause 00:42:08 00:42:18) Just because what they do is—and their time is considered like a lot more valuable than mine because of what I’m doing. So (pause 00:42:30 00:42:42) I don’t know. I just like (pause 00:42:43 00:42:47) I don’t want to constantly complain about work at work. But I also would really like supportiveness at work. And (pause 00:42:59 00:43:04) I’m not getting it and I just sort of am like—more and more I’m just like, “Well,” (pause 00:43:10 00:43:14)—like I guess I just feel like I don’t know what to do.

THERAPIST: I see. I was wondering or concerned that the way we’re talking about this is becoming overwhelming. And I don’t know if you’re feeling (background noise) or—

CLIENT: (pause 00:43:35 00:43:40) Sort of. Right before this (pause 00:43:44 00:43:52), you know, I just had this—it’s kind of dumb, but it was also upsetting. I (inaudible) using the elevator. And I took it. Like I got in and someone’s like, “I’m going to the fourth floor.” I was like, “I’ll just wait until,”—I’ll just stand in the elevator because I want to go down a floor. And she then chastised me for taking the elevator because where I wanted to go was only one floor down. I could have just taken a few steps. And I was just like, “Well, why do you care? You’re going where you’re going.” And like what the fuck? And I was like—I just said, “Well, you know, I don’t want to—I don’t want the steps. It’s uncomfortable. I have an injury.”

And she was just like clearly didn’t believe me and was just very like—I mean like (inaudible) just kind of like, “Mm-hmm. Right, buddy. Whatever.” (pause 00:44:59 00:45:11) Which then like I—my plan was to go to the (inaudible) and do some searching for (inaudible) books. And I was like—I mean I just spent the next half hour like trying to not cry, trying to think about what I was doing, and thinking, “Well, it’s almost 5:00.” (pause 00:45:34 00:45:43) So yes. I am feeling kind of overwhelmed, but it’s also like—like I don’t know. Circumstances and also I’ve just been feeling like the end of the day is just kind of like—I feel like I am done with my capacity to deal with a day at like 2:00 or 3:00. And then there’s more day.

THERAPIST: (pause 00:46:13 00:46:22) We should stop for now.

CLIENT: Okay. (pause 00:46:24 00:46:28) Okay. (inaudible) (pause 00:46:30 – 00:46:40)

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