TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: I had mentioned that (inaudible at [00:00:12]) next week, and I (inaudible at [00:00:13]).

CLIENT: Okay. On the way over I had this, what, this week, next week? And I’m glad that it was next week. So here’s the (inaudible at [00:00:33]) we discussed. I feel breathy, and have felt frustrated with my office mentor. [00:00:56]

THERAPIST: That’s the best way to put it. Yeah.

CLIENT: So Monday there was like a sort of, they sort of, it was a meeting of mentors, mentees, and people in another program, that’s some (inaudible at [00:01:15]). And you know, it was like networking to your advantage, I don’t know, something. So it was, so it was like a little four-person breakout group with my mentor Laney, and then two other people, one of whom would not, like, was very narrow to what she had to say, which was frustrating. [00:01:52]

So it was like, Laney doesn’t really talk, like doesn’t really small talk. In the group, she didn’t really talk very much. And because I was feeling frustrated, there was a question like, “What’s your biggest barrier to,” it was like, “not working, or to getting success?” And I was just like, “Institutionalized oppression.”

THERAPIST: Oppression, is that what you said?

CLIENT: Yes, I said institutionalized and structural oppression. And so the leader was like talking about like power dynamics of like who is in the room with [], and she was like, “I really think that table should be somewhere else.” And at first you just kind of go hmm, and then you think, “Oh, you’re, hmm, yeah, you’re the president. I’ll just move that table.” And I was like, “Yes.” [00:03:04]

And then I just sort of followed up, I’m like, “But also.” And I don’t know, my mentor seemed a little, like seemed a little either off-put or surprised, I’m not really sure which, which is like again, I think, like it’s just, it’s very weird. You never know what she’s thinking. So when I was done, I talked to a few people because we were supposed to, and then went back to work. And pretty quickly got a phone call from her which was super awkward, which was just like, first she just said, “Oh, I missed you, so I wanted to say, ‘Have a good day.’“ Then there was a pause, and I’m like, “Thank you.” [00:04:00]

I sort of babbled something, and (inaudible at ‘[00:04:00]), and then she said, “You know, I’m here to help you.” And I thanked her, and got off the phone. And I feel like I don’t know what just happened, like okay, like why did that just happen? I don’t know. It was just, A, the conversation felt very weird and stilted, and like it was something she was supposed to do or someone told her to do, because it really wasn’t a conversation, or it was one where I was feeling it. [00:04:56]

And she seemed surprised, and she had left work. When I talk about homophobia being experienced at Cambridge, people are always surprised, and so I mentioned that.

THERAPIST: Homophobia or the part of she being surprised?

CLIENT: I mentioned homophobia at work.

THERAPIST: Gotcha.

CLIENT: And whenever I bring that at work, people are like, “At Cambridge?” And then one person took that point in time to talk a lot about how that never happens in her department. Which is Women in Gender Studies, but still I suspect that’s not entirely true. So I kind of feel like I’m sort of stuck again at this, well, what I actually wanted a mentor for was not. Actually, what I wanted a mentor for was to help me deal with like racism and sexism in the workplace. [00:06:13]

Also racism, or whatever, and to get some kind of like, you know, “Yes, that sucks, maybe here are some suggestions,” or just “That sucks,” which I haven’t gotten from her. And she hasn’t seemed interested in that topic. So I stopped, so I said, “Hmm,” and now kind of like well, do you like, I guess I could tell you all about that, but I’m not sure where we would go with that. Like [00:07:03]

THERAPIST: Tell her—

CLIENT: I could tell her like—

THERAPIST: Ways of talking to her about it and the (inaudible at [00:07:07]?

CLIENT: I don’t know, I’m sort of like, part of me wants to say like, “Look, what I wanted out of a mentor was this, and while you are a very nice helpful person, that’s not what you’re giving me.” And the other part of me is kind of like, “Well, I didn’t talk about that because you seemed completely uninterested, but I just—” I feel very frustrated and I feel like so tired out that I just don’t really—The program’s almost over, so there’s no point in like dropping out of it, whatever that would mean. [00:07:07]

But I’m just really exhausted and don’t feel like it any more, as best I can put it. Like yeah, I basically just don’t feel like it. And so I had a hard time like completing the mentorship goals I set for myself for a variety of reasons. Probably the biggest would be being depressed and frustrated.

THERAPIST: Both for the mentorship?

CLIENT: So I had three goals, which I didn’t think were too bad. One was putting up the sign about where the disabled bathrooms are, which is still in progress, or rather, I wrote the sign, and just had a meeting today about how we still can’t put that sign up, nor can we really deal with until after commencement. [00:09:19]

Like until June, but they’re going to send someone to take some measurements and see if there actually are problems, and the regular things, and then also someone in the meeting criticized me for language I was explicitly told I had to use, which was “Bathrooms with accessible features.” So this person was like, “What does accessible features mean?” I don’t know. The office told me to say that. Like help. [00:10:01]

And coincidentally, when I was leaving today I ran into a woman in the ladies room that has accessible features who was, there are double doors, there are two sets of doors that you have to try to get through to get in and out of the bathroom.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And they’re just far apart that you can’t like, in a wheelchair, reach back or forward, if you had that much mobility to hold one open, and so you, they’re really hard to get out. Like—

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I helped her get through both of them and then I asked her about it a little bit. And like one of my friends asked if there was like, you know, in a friendship sort of as comedy, I’m like, “Yes, yes I am.” I don’t know what to tell. I’m sort of like, you know, still working on it. [00:11:01]

And when we have these meetings, I guess it’s like a meeting, like I still in the end do not understand why like we can’t put it, like—

THERAPIST: You have to put a sign up?

CLIENT: Yeah, like’s that sort of like the end result of each meeting. I’m like, “Okay, but can I just put a sign up?”

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Just something? Anything? You know, just because there will be special like historical issues and how we should measure everything and do you—

THERAPIST: Wait, measure what?

CLIENT: Like measure the door width, the stall width, (inaudible at [00:11:46]).

THERAPIST: Like the bathrooms have accessible features? Or it does?

CLIENT: Yes. And how successful are those features?

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I’m just like, “But could we maybe just say we could try?” Like and then today was also well. I mean, we need to plan because if we put descriptive language in for your office, we have to plan to do it for everyone, for all the other offices. I’m just like, “Put, can we just let them pee?” Like I just kept getting really stuck at the why just, like I don’t know why we need to have an hour meeting to not, race to the second hour-long meeting if I’m not being (inaudible at [00:12:37]). The other people’s, one was to write up some documentation on captioning and the other was to offer a class on Photoshop. [00:12:56]

In feeling so, I’ve been feeling so frustrated, I’m to the point where I thought it would be easiest just putting up a sign, I’m just, it’s really hard to do anything. And also, like it just, like I don’t know. Because so many things are frustrating, I just keep on procrastinating, like I don’t know, it’s, when someone says something critical at work about me at work, which happens regularly, it’s really, really hard for me to, like that kind of kills the work for the day in a way. [00:14:03]

Like, or rather like if someone like criticizes a project I’m working on or there’s like, “Why aren’t you doing forty more things?” It’s very hard for me to then sit down and do like, “Okay, let’s,” so I feel like, so I’ll make this Photoshop tutorial and then people will criticize it and I’ll get negative feedback or I won’t be allowed to do it for new reasons.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Same with the couch thing.

THERAPIST: Or you’ll do it and it will get, you’ll get positive feedback, and then somehow you won’t be able to do anything with it? [00:15:01]

CLIENT: Yeah. Like it’s honestly hard for me to think of not getting some kind of negative feedback or complaints. I guess complaints. Like that’s, yeah, I just can’t think of how I won’t at someone complaining, someone insisting that I’m the techie, therefore I can do it and they can’t because they’re not a techie, they’re a employee. And yeah, all I can think of is people saying well, like I can’t do it because I’m not a techie and not being willing to do like listen to whatever it is I’m presenting, or do the basic like, can you read these ten steps? [00:16:09]

And yeah, like I just can’t really think of it, I guess it’s just hard for me to think of it being a positive anything. And I guess I haven’t finished my, I have another set of overlapping goals that with Chet, that I haven’t really progressed on since we had a, you know, crappy fight in the middle of the office. But then again, he hasn’t brought them up again since, so I’m just— [00:17:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s like I feel sort of half abandoned and half micro-managed.

THERAPIST: yeah. I think completely unsupported.

CLIENT: Yes. Very much so.

THERAPIST: Probably (inaudible at [00:17:30])?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And guess the other thing like (inaudible at [00:17:48]).

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like it’s just making it hard to work on stuff that you kind of only envision going badly. [00:18:06]

I mean, not for no reason, just—

CLIENT: Yeah, like if, like I don’t feel like I have a lot of energy and don’t feel like, I don’t feel like there’s anyone being like, “Yeah, you can do it.” But, and it also feels kind of pointless in that like let’s say I could, let’s say I did this Photoshop class. Like I don’t feel like, I don’t feel like anything’s going to really come from doing like. [00:19:08]

With the time and the effort and the whatever is not going to get me anything. I mean, among other things, it’s definitely not going to get me out of my cube, I’m not going to be like early in the week someone was in the media lab (inaudible at [00:19:47]), just talking really loudly for about an hour, like doing Skype or something. And I had this horrible headache, and like just couldn’t beat it and ended up just going home. [00:20:00]

Because I felt like crap, and part of it, and also what part of it was so horrible and stressful was that I couldn’t shut the door.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Yeah, and it just seems so like oh. I feel so infantalizing and ridiculous.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And the other thing is I think as I’m sitting in the office doing whatever and the student workers who are supposed to help people who are using, learn how to use like Filecut (sp?) or Photoshop or whatever, and Chet and Karl are like, “Yeah, we’re going to,” they have this vision currently of like redoing part of the office and having it be staffed entirely by students who, you know, because they’re students, just know instinctively how to use these programs. [00:21:07]

And I just am like, “Okay, but you know, like right now people come to the lab and ask for help. They get shrugs a lot.” I don’t see how a whole floor of that is going to be great.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But—

THERAPIST: Right. Also comes to me that as though they put quite a lot more faith in the student workers to be sort of helpful and to kind of run things themselves.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Than you.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: You need to be in an office where you’re sitting right across from Chet. You can’t close the door. You can’t like create any sort of private space for yourself. [00:22:06]

You feel micro-managed. You know, we just throw a bunch of students, you know, down there some place and they’ll magically both know how to do what anyone asks them to do and how to explain it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And we won’t need to keep an eye on them.

CLIENT: No, that’s very true. I mean, it’s also like I feel like the expectations on student workers, or especially how much technology or software or whatever that they know, and that they could explain, is crazy. [00:22:59]

I think, I mean in part because I guess we’re being cheap, but I don’t know, like a lot of, like some of the people saying this have never touched those programs, and I’m kind of like, “Do you know how complicated that crap is?”

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Like it’s really difficult. There’s all these weird fiddly things.

THERAPIST: So they think they’re just saying, “Oh, that person can basically use Microsoft Word.”

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Oh, they’re just (inaudible at [00:23:38]) paper, they can use Microsoft Word. Oh, they’re young, so they can probably use (inaudible at [00:23:42]) Pro, or Photoshop or something.

CLIENT: Yeah, they just know how to use it. They just you know, walked out and know how to use it. And my other thought was yes, they can sit down and bash their way through, but it’s not really pleasant or efficient or effective.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:24:00]

CLIENT: You know, like—

THERAPIST: Or what you want and somebody teaching somebody else, I would think.

CLIENT: Yeah, like forcing your way through is not fun. And so I went to a reference services staffing to talk to them about Photoshop. And

THERAPIST: About Photoshop?

CLIENT: Yes, about teaching them Photoshop. And images, like people were really kind of (inaudible at [00:24:32]) themselves, but one of the things I realized when I was sitting there, I was like, “Oh, this meeting is not the hell’s gate that my staffing,” they just have monthly staff meetings for my department are. Like the other department lets people talk. She, you know, asks a question and lets you answer it. [00:25:00]

Crazy things like that, and when I was there, they were going to have, they were doing like a, not a staff leadership, like a building cohesiveness half-day retreat at work followed by a light, you know, beer afterwards. And I was like, “Oh, that would be nice to do.”

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But, and I talked to someone who goes to book meetings, my meetings and breakfast meetings. She’s like, “Yeah, it’s really different. It’s so horrible, and it’s really hard to describe.” Yes, I know.

THERAPIST: Referring to your (inaudible at [00:25:59]).

CLIENT: Like that the, our department, the department meetings that like I have are just so horrible. [00:26:10]

And I don’t know. Yeah, I think I just, like I just have such a hard time thinking of this changing in any real way. And yeah, I mean [00:27:07]

It’s hard to think of it changing, and it remains, like I remain getting frustrated when other people are doing things that I know how to do, or whether they’re failing, they’re having a really hard time with it. And I’m like, “I could do that in a minute, or not.” Because I’m not an employee, which, when also when I say that—

THERAPIST: Like the technical things, or—

CLIENT: Yeah, like I discovered that the three-employee team that who runs the Tumblr, they don’t know how to use Tumblr, they don’t know how to use Photoshop, they don’t know how to resize images, they don’t understand like any of it, and I’m like, “Oh, my God.” So like occasionally when I walk by, they’ll be like, “Karen, how do you do this? How do you do this?” [00:27:58]

And all I could think of is, “Or, I could do it,” but like what’s the point of me having this information in my head and watching you do it repeatedly when the answer’s no?.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Which also makes me feel very embittered and also slightly crazy.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like—

THERAPIST: It doesn’t make any sense.

CLIENT: It doesn’t make any sense. And—

THERAPIST: And I guess yet it seems to everybody else. It doesn’t make any sense to you and yet it seems to to everybody else, like that’s what seems to me to be too crazy making, the ingredients to crazy making.

CLIENT: Yeah. For, and—

THERAPIST: Like there’s nobody else saying, “Well, why doesn’t Karen just do this?”

CLIENT: Yeah, not that I hear. I mean, maybe they are somewhere, but— [00:29:09]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I think that’s also yeah, that’s like, I kind of feel like okay, if you know, if you are aware that I know all these things, why don’t you ask me? Like it’s a combination of like I feel like sometimes I could literally no way for me to use like my knowledge of Photoshop at work, which seems so crazy. Or like I got really stalled working on Filecut (sp?), because I also don’t think I (inaudible at [00:30:01]) at work. [00:30:04]

And I feel like I have no, no advocacy or support and, but then I also think that I don’t know would it even work.

THERAPIST: You say what wouldn’t even work?

CLIENT: Like if Chet said to the (inaudible at [00:30:33]), like “Hey, maybe Karen should be involved in that project that she knows everything about.” It’s unclear to me if that would actually get me involved with projects. Like if, like say if Chet talked to an employee from another group and said, “You know, like have you thought of including Karen on this project?” [00:31:01]

I don’t feel like that would lead to me being involved in that project.

THERAPIST: Like because of something from their side?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or just something would happen and it would fall through?

CLIENT: I feel like I don’t know if they’re would be something that would require follow-through and sort of no one would take responsibility for it, or Chet would just be like, “Well, I suggested it.” Or I feel like the group would sort of say like—

THERAPIST: It’s like a (inaudible at [00:31:46]) signs for the bathroom?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like there’s really no apparent credible reason why you shouldn’t just put them up.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: But mumble mumble will handle it, somehow it’s not happening. [00:32:02]

CLIENT: Right, like I really couldn’t tell you. Like, you know, I could tell you, but I couldn’t tell you why this hasn’t happened, and that’s how I feel about work, I guess, which yeah. Like, and also there is no, if I don’t fulfill these goals, nothing really happens. I’m just supposed to be motivated to fulfill them, which I’m not feeling motivated any more.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And no one’s really helping me with that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And like I just sort of, like I sort of don’t know what to do, like should I sit down with a manager and say, “Look, all these things suck.” [00:33:05]

You know, blah. And I also worry, like I feel, I worry about being perceived as someone who’s really negative, or who always complains, and there is of course no real way to, that’s a hard question to ask someone, though, “Do you think I’m a negative person?” But also, I am feeling sort of low on my positively-phrased constructive criticism urge. [00:34:12]

Like right now, I’m kind of like I either don’t want to talk about it, or like, or telling them like, going for the throat and being like, “Look, these are all the problems. These are.” Like after this meeting about the bathrooms, a big part of me is like, “I wonder if I should just call the (inaudible at [00:34:32]) disabilities office. I’ll call the Pope. I don’t know, cute. But I don’t think I, like I like having a job. I really do like getting paid, so there is that.

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah, it’s something to think about.

CLIENT: It is. [00:35:04]

It’s also funny, like the other thing that sort of occasionally cracks me up is when people are discussing something, like someone at work was discussing x amount of students do papers about how different people think about bodies, and I started to be like, “Pluck, pluck,” and I’m like, “No, fuck it.” Like you know, like part of me is like, “Yes, I have a lot to say about that topic.” Did you know I published on that? And then part of me’s like, “No, where is that going to get me? Nowhere.” And I’m also having a lot of misgivings about talking at this professional conference in May. [00:35:56]

Partially because the class, my office school class professor is going to be there, so I feel a little awkward, because I’ve done horrible in his class this semester. And also, there’s—

THERAPIST: Can you remind me what the conference presentation is, I think you told me about it.

CLIENT: It’s about whole person []. It’s bringing like, you know, the whole complete you and your skills and whatever, to the job.

THERAPIST: Right, so doing things that may not be sort of obviously in your usual or direct mission of the office, but that sort of make use of some like other skills that (inaudible at [00:36:47]) patrons we have.

CLIENT: Yeah, and also using it to like stick on your performance evaluation, whatever that you did this form of professional development, that like your work doing volunteer work is kind of professional development because of these reasons. [00:37:06]

I think part of it is just being like, “Guess what? I’m not a professional, so I don’t know how a professional (inaudible at [00:37:20]) is, so meh.

THERAPIST: That you don’t have any professional—

CLIENT: So, yeah, so for me, like I’m giving this talk, but I actually am, don’t have professional development funds.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So it’s kind of slightly moot, because—

THERAPIST: Slightly ironic.

CLIENT: Yeah, and also there’s a presentation, like—

THERAPIST: All right. It just seems emblematic of a lot of what you’re describing in that you are trying to contribute, and help people. And are getting nothing for it. And I don’t just mean like that someone should be paying you, or somebody should be like putting up big posters of you in the office, but you know, I think it’s a, not even for you. You don’t even want people who could get like support for your professional development, right, the answer is yes.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Like I might just take a vacation day to go to a conference.

THERAPIST: Right, just crazy.

CLIENT: Yes. [00:39:00]

Yeah. I mean, it’s just, I don’t know. Like for all that I value having a work personal boundary, because especially being in these meetings about the stupid bathroom signs. I’m kind of like, part of me is like, “Well, I know you think I’m some like shmo, but I actually do know a lot about this topic, and I don’t know why you’re sticking your feet in the like, I could just do this. Like I know a lot about this, which is why I’m bringing it up. Can we work together on this?” Or like, “I actually know a lot about diversity training, or I know a lot about feminism, or just whatever, whatever.” [00:40:07]

And I don’t know. I feel like it’s not, we don’t bring up a lot of work because I like having that boundary, but I feel like even if I just sat down and said, “Hey guys. Here are the things that are (inaudible at [00:40:31]), or that I’m willing to share with you or whatever,” they’re response would be like a non-response. Which is also part of the like, like my, you know, calling the disabilities office, includes like, and then I talk to all my disability rights friends, and have them blow up the Internet. [00:41:00]

Which would, you know, again, be satisfying in a way, but not a good idea. But it would be really satisfying. And part of me really wants to say to work, like, “Look, I’m not doing that. Like I could set this whole thing on fire, but I’m not, so let’s talk about that.” Like could I ask my colleagues, like it sounds weird to say like I would like you to notice I’m not setting this building on fire. But that’s how I feel. And I don’t know. Like—

THERAPIST: Well I think, and in your mind you’re pretty desperate for some acknowledgement of something about you. [00:42:01]

CLIENT: Yeah, like that would be awesome.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Especially since like, like theoretically, like in my, like so only Chet, just three people, and in theory, like my job is the lowest of them. And so my lazy, being in troublemaking, coworker Harry—

THERAPIST: Who used to (inaudible at [00:42:32])

CLIENT: Yes. And—

THERAPIST: (inaudible at [00:42:34] it again, probably.

CLIENT: Using (inaudible at [00:42:37]), like he, I don’t know. Like weirdly is in some way above me in like the department. And I don’t know. [00:43:03]

It just, it so, it feels in some ways more, I don’t think accumulating’s quite right, but sort of. Like one of the secretary (inaudible at [00:43:24]) were shitty at me for being the secretary, but they’re just like, “You’re just a secretary.” That sucked. But I was just like, “Well, that’s all I want to do right now, so fuck you, whatever.” And also that’s kind of part of the job, like, but I feel less like it’s part of what my job is, and also I just don’t feel like, I don’t know. [00:44:08]

So when faculty were shitty, they’re faculty, they’re like separate from me. And your coworkers were usually supportive, I mean, whatever. In this case, I feel like my coworkers aren’t supportive, and faculty (inaudible at [00:44:28]), like there’s a sort of like faculty equivalent of important people who just do things. But there’s like, I don’t think there’s actually anyone I can just be like, “Oh my God, this was so annoying.”

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And they’d be like, “Oh yeah, I hate my professor too, or it’s so obnoxious. My professor also made me do greeting cards.”

THERAPIST: Right, like this is all from within your own group.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:44:59]

You know, like when we were, as secretarial staff, I don’t know, like journaling, either stuck up for each other, we’d bitch with each other, but I don’t feel like I’m getting that. I’m not really, I don’t know how to get it.

THERAPIST: This does all make you pretty miserable.

CLIENT: It really is.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at [00:45:42]), I think.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, that’s like it’s for me one of the other things is that I’m so miserable that I worry that like I’m not going to get to December, which is so close.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I need to like get my degree so I don’t feel like some kind of, like I kind of want to look for a new job, but I don’t want to look for a new job.

THERAPIST: Right. We need to stop.

CLIENT: Yeah. Okay. See you in two weeks.

THERAPIST: Take care, Karen.

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