TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Give yourself a minute to catch your breath. I know I caught you just as you were coming in.

CLIENT: No.

(Pause 00:00:10 to 00:00:21)

CLIENT: So (sigh) lately I’ve been spending a lot of time fixating on being suicidal and I thought it was no big deal, but Sydney disagreed with me and wanted me to bring it up.

THERAPIST: Okay. What do you mean by “lately”? Get me oriented to what we’re (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Oh, like last night like I so we went down to the bar for dinner because Cullen was then visiting, and Grandma with her memory problems… I mean she was mostly getting onto Sydney, like “Why don’t you have a job” and like, “Oh, why don’t you take something like…” You know, she thinks it’s because he hasn’t found the right opportunity yet and like he should just take something subpar, and the real reason is he’s too depressed to take a job but could probably find something that he’d actually like doing if he like were actually able to take a job. But my grandma ended up asking about this three times, and then also like my mom was all like “Oh, well, you should be temping.” [00:01:32]

THERAPIST: To you, or him?

CLIENT: To me. And I don’t know. I mean I guess these things are separate, but they sort of felt connected.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And it’s like I don’t even know if like temping is enough to not have to move back to Connecticut; like, I don’t think it is. I think half the time I don’t know if like completely support myself, and then it’s like okay, what’s the point of temping, then, if I’m like going to have to move back anyways? But like… [00:02:07]

THERAPIST: So it was a really uncomfortable dinner it sounds like.

CLIENT: It was an uncomfortable dinner, and I got home and I felt bad. And then like, you know, I don’t know that I’m going to find something, and, you know, I don’t want to be stuck in Connecticut and how am I even going to get health insurance in Connecticut, because like the open enrollment period for before the Affordable Care Act is over… And I’m like I don’t even know how I’m going to get therapy in Connecticut because there aren’t that many therapists in Connecticut. Like there’s not like the same sort of selection that there is here with like lots of skilled people. And like, you know, I have no friends there and I’m just going to go back and be miserable anyways. And I really felt the logical solution to all this, you know, of costing all this money, was for me to kill myself, like.

THERAPIST: What stopped you from doing it? [00:03:00]

CLIENT: I don’t know. I never can work up the nerve. It’s like I guess I don’t really want to kill myself, but I want to be able to want to kill myself.

THERAPIST: Ah. Because that feels… You want to want to because that feels logical?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And you said the logical solution seems like…

CLIENT: It seems to be the logical solution.

THERAPIST: But you don’t really want to because…

CLIENT: I don’t know. I can’t make myself… I guess I’m too afraid?

THERAPIST: Is it fear that stops you from doing it, or are there other things mixed in there, too?

CLIENT: Inertia. I don’t know. It’s not like I feel like I have a lot to live for that I’m like oh, I’d be missing out on all these things if I died (ph).

THERAPIST: So it’s not hope for, you know, the future, but it might it may be inertia, it may be fear.

(Pause 00:03:53 to 00:03:59)

THERAPIST: Yeah, well, it does sound worrisome to me. I can see why Sydney is worried.

CLIENT: Um-hmm. He was ready to talk me out of it and I didn’t want… You know, he’s all like “Oh, but you’ll be fine and then everything will be okay,” and I’m like “You don’t know that.” [00:04:11]

THERAPIST: That doesn’t feel true for you.

CLIENT: Yeah. “And you’re getting upset by this, why don’t you go home? Like you can’t deal with me being suicidal, like. I can’t just stop feeling like this,” but like he didn’t want to leave. But he wanted me to stop being suicidal, and (inaudible at 00:04:28) and like clearly the solution would have been for him to leave if he couldn’t deal with me being like this.

THERAPIST: How would you feel how do you feel when the roles are reversed? Does he report feeling suicidal?

CLIENT: No. He hasn’t wanted to hurt himself in like at least months, if not like a year or so.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Like his depression is more to… Well, I guess sometimes he’s all like “Oh, well, I wish I would have died,” but it like is maybe for like, you know, 30 seconds or something, and I’m like “No, you don’t deserve to die” and like…

THERAPIST: Ah. Do you believe that?

CLIENT: Yeah, but he can support himself.

THERAPIST: How does he support himself and you don’t?

CLIENT: Because he has like $300,000 left over from his college fund, and like his grandma died in October and he got a check for $30,000 from the estate. And it’s like enough to last a whole year, plus all his other money, so that’s how he can support himself, so therefore he doesn’t deserve to die because (inaudible at 00:05:35) solution he’ll get over his depression before he runs out of money.

THERAPIST: So it’s not really about deserving to die, but it’s about or is not being able to support yourself means you should be dead? I’m just trying to understand your what it means to deserve to die for you.

CLIENT: I mean I think it depends on the person and their individual circumstances of whether or not the people who are supporting them are willing to support them. [00:06:01]

THERAPIST: So it sounds like your parents feel like you deserve to live at home.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Not that you deserve to die.

CLIENT: But they just but dying would be better than living at home.

THERAPIST: For who?

CLIENT: For me.

(Pause 00:06:18 to 00:06:25)

THERAPIST: What would make it better? Or I guess maybe what would make home worse than dead?

CLIENT: Because I won’t have any friends or anything to look forward to ever. It will just be me and my parents and they’ll just be constantly like “You don’t have a job, you’re bad, you need to lose weight.” But how am I supposed to lose weight if they’re taking me away from like swing dancing and like things that get me out of the house and like have me seeing people and stuff.

THERAPIST: Have you talked to them about that?

CLIENT: No, and it’s just like if they want to like they want me to get before, they were saying that they wanted me to focus on those things. Wait, but like if I can’t take a job, that like makes me miserable. You know, I can’t both lose weight and be like gainfully employed at the same time and not be too stressed and like I’ll eat junk food and make it worse. And I mean already I’m like depressed and like having trouble doing all the dishes and then eating off of paper plates for a really long time now. But I still have this pile of dishes that has been in the sink for a month because I have like haven’t done it, and because Sydney said he would do them and then he never did and like… [00:07:34]

THERAPIST: What if we focus on health? Rather than focus on weight or job or these other labels, what if we focused on what actually makes you healthier? What makes you feel better? What makes you feel like it’s worth it to be alive?

CLIENT: Nothing right now. (Crying). It isn’t at all worth it to be alive, it’s not. [00:08:06]

THERAPIST: When are the times that you feel differently?

CLIENT: I don’t.

THERAPIST: Ever?

CLIENT: I mean maybe when I used to see my friends, but my friends a lot of my friends are far away so I don’t really see… You know, I guess maybe like at (inaudible at 00:08:21). I’ve still got until September, or maybe August we’re preparing for September, like, you know? I don’t like swing dancing, but it doesn’t like excite me enough that I’m like “Ooo, I get to go swing dancing.” I’m still sort of grabbing (ph) myself to swing dancing. (Sniffling sound)

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you need to be in a hospital or in a day program to be safe?

CLIENT: That will cost even more money.

THERAPIST: Ah, but we’re not talking about what it costs, we’re talking about what you need to be safe and what you need to work toward being healthy.

CLIENT: I don’t want to cost more money. I won’t go. I don’t think I need to be in a hospital. [00:09:10]

THERAPIST: Well, if you’re not going to be safe outside of one, then you do need to be in one.

CLIENT: I can’t afford it.

THERAPIST: I’m guessing if I asked your parents if they would prefer that you be alive or dead, even though alive costs money, that they would say alive, and I’m basing that on the information that you’ve shared with me about, you know, that they have been willing to pay for treatment when you’ve shared with them how badly you were feeling. They’ve indicated that they want you to feel better and get the treatment you need, and their responses in the past has been…

CLIENT: But now they’re like talking about how they don’t have enough money and they can’t save for retirement, and suddenly (ph) that they’ve been talking about that, so I don’t know if they feel the same way. I think they’d now feel like I’m too expensive and I can’t… [00:10:03]

THERAPIST: Well, it does sound like they feel like this apartment that you’re in is an expense, is additional. It’s not you, it’s the apartment, and they’re paying for an apartment that you’re living in, and there’s no specific reason that you need to live in that particular place.

CLIENT: No, but I don’t know where I feel that that would be like isn’t that like well, it’s a combination of they wanted me to keep kosher.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And they’re all like “Well, you can’t deal with roommates,” they’re like, because I had the crazy roommate, so they wanted me to be alone. [00:10:40]

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: They wanted me to be alone, and they wanted me to be, you know, kosher place. So I could find another apartment. Maybe I could find a tiny thing that’s 1100 and above, but that’s like okay, so that’s like $300 a month difference, but that would be too expensive, too. Like I don’t have friends that I could live with and find a place that, like, was reasonable. [00:11:16]

THERAPIST: So when we’re talking about what your parents are willing to pay for, without knowing without them being aware of how badly you’re feeling and that you’re thinking about suicide, it’s not really a fair question, right? Whether they’re willing to pay for an apartment versus whether they’re willing to pay for treatment are very different questions.

(Pause 00:11:40 to 00:11:58)

CLIENT: (Sniffling sound). Money is money. (Sigh) Well, they’ll complain about not having enough money, but they want all, like, the wicked expensive trip to Jordan with klabaka (sp?); it costs like I think it’s like $5,000 a person or something ridiculous like that, and they like did a $30,000 remodeling of their kitchen, and now they’re like…

THERAPIST: All right, so it’s all they want to spend… [00:12:20]

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