TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: (background noise) So where do you stand today?

CLIENT: I�m doing a lot better.

THERAPIST: A lot better. I�m glad to hear that.

CLIENT: So I ended up yesterday like finally applying to a bunch of temp agencies, since it didn�t take that much work; it was mostly just fill out a form and send in your resume, or just e-mail in your resume or whatever. Then I�d also looked for some library jobs before that, but haven�t actually applied to any of them.

THERAPIST: Were there things that seemed interesting?

CLIENT: Yeah, there were things that seemed interesting; a couple of them were long shots, so I�m not sure if I�m going to apply to all the ones that I like save, because the site that I was using lets you save jobs.

But I think I will apply to at least some of them, but one of the temp agencies that I submitted with actually called me back this morning, and now I�m going in for a meeting on tomorrow morning. [00:01:00]

THERAPIST: How do you feel about it? You had sort of mixed feelings about the temp agency world.

CLIENT: Yeah, a little apprehensive and just like, I have enough professional clothes that I can have something to wear for tomorrow; I don�t have enough professional clothes that I like can start going to a job. But I wouldn�t be able to start until (pause) not next week, but the following week, since I have appointments set up and stuff.

But, so I guess that gives me a little bit of time. But they mostly do administrative stuff, so like office work. So I think it would be something I�d be okay in, though again, there�s still the whole fear of not being able to see the jobsite before accepting a top position. (pause)

THERAPIST: And what is it that you feel like you need to see? What do you need to feel comfortable, or what do you need to be able to assess out whether it would be an okay thing to do? [00:02:00]

CLIENT: Mostly whether or not the building and the like furniture and everything inside is depressing, or does it not have a nice atmosphere. Because I don�t think it was just the path that I was doing the same thing over and over again at when I was at Tuff�s, but I think it was also the whole environment just was like that with all the cubicles and everything; it was, you know, people not really talking with each other that much. And me not knowing anyone (overlapping voices)

THERAPIST: That�s the hard part.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean that�s sort of what got me -

THERAPIST: Consistent with temp work, is that, you know, you�re going to walk into an environment where you don�t know anybody.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And depending on how long you�re there, you know, you may get to know people. But it�s that starting piece that stuck behind there.

CLIENT: But even like (pause) even if I was � because one of the things when I was at the museum, I was working in the reading room, which is where you have all the researchers and people hanging out and stuff. And so like, you know, even if I wasn�t talking to people, but like having them come to the reference desk, and talking about sources and whatever [00:03:09]

THERAPIST: You had some good -

CLIENT: Like anything -

THERAPIST: Yeah, interaction.

CLIENT: Yeah, like even if I�m not interacting with them, just having that there makes me feel better, and also like bright and natural light, and � (sigh) (pause) yeah. I don�t know, because when I was at (inaudible at 00:03:26) they also � I mean they have a lot of offices and cubicles, but like most people kept their office doors open. And you know, I was also doing things for a bunch of different people, so did a lot of running around and talking to people while I was doing stuff.

I think it�s just whether or not I�m completely isolated. So like if it�s a receptionist position, then like -

THERAPIST: You have people coming to the desk.

CLIENT: Yeah. Or even if it�s like an assistant, you know, that�s still people telling me what to do, instead of just like having the computer give me a zillion things and doing it automatically. [00:04:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well so that might be something to talk about in the meeting; kind of what situations you feel you thrive in, and a situation where there is some interaction with colleagues, or peers, or a public facing position where you have some interaction with people coming in. Because I think that�s something that you would feel much more comfortable with than like a data entry position where it�s you and the computer screen, and -

CLIENT: I didn�t even mention data entry this time along, it was mostly like office assistant or like research type things. So I figured I�d avoid the whole data entry (pause) because -

THERAPIST: Well I�m glad to hear you�re feeling more motivated.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) And I went contra dancing last night, and that felt really good.

THERAPIST: Good for you.

CLIENT: Yeah, but the problem with the one at Stanford is that it doesn�t run every week. So like it�s happening next weekend, and then it won�t be happening for another three weeks. [00:05:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah. So it�s not something you can count on as a weekly activity, but it sounds like you took good advantage of it while it was here.

CLIENT: Yeah. I�m just afraid that like when I start a position, I�ll completely lose like any like any of � Well I guess I haven�t been eating that healthfully anyway, but I feel like I�ll be even more unhealthy, and (pause) I mean I guess if it�s something nearby, then I can still do like swing dancing, and contra dance and stuff.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it�s going to depend on what the schedule is, and how long the commute is.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You don�t know that those things are going to make � you don�t know that it�s going to be impossible to incorporate these things in your life.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean it seems a lot more likely. I don�t think that we�re going to have an hour and a half commute each way. Like that just is not going to happen. (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah well, you don�t have to accept a temp position like that.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It was pretty � you know, that commute was really difficult for you, and at the time, having something in your field; something that was interesting, it was really important to get that going. [00:06:10]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But that doesn�t mean you need to take that for everything.

CLIENT: Yeah. If it were like a temp to hire, and I ended up in the office that I was working in, that would be fine. I mean I�d like to do something in my field, but maybe like waiting a couple of years, and hoping that the economy gets back on its feet more. Then like � you know, then people will be investing money in libraries again.

But yeah, I also don�t know, you know, if I�m going to do the temp thing, if I�m going to have to like � if I�m going to have the ability to apply for things in my field. And I also don�t know whether or not, I guess I have to call my parents again and talk to them. But I don�t know whether or not, like working for a temp agency would be enough that I could (overlapping voices)

THERAPIST: Because you�d like to beat their � their expectations for staying in your own place.

CLIENT: Yeah, especially if it�s something that only pays like $10.00 an hour, and then like, you know, [00:07:12]

THERAPIST: Well I think you need to have this meeting the agency; find out what�s available before you have these conversations. (pause) Because it�s easier to go to your parents and say, �Is this temp position I have in hand� versus this hypothetical position that might come, that I don�t know how many hours, and I don�t know, you know, let�s get some information to go on.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: But you took some active steps; the things that were in your control, you took -

CLIENT: And there were actually like, you know, I � there were a surprising number of temp agencies in Rhode Island. Like I thought PSG was the biggest one, and it might be the biggest one, but I looked on (inaudible at 00:07:55), and actually like most of � like for � you know, they were all rated, and PSG was pretty far, there were at least like six or seven agencies before it, and it got out of five, maybe like a 2.5 or something in there; other ones that were like 4.5 or -

THERAPIST: Yeah. And were people saying; what are they basing it on?

CLIENT: I didn�t actually go looking and check out what the ratings said, because I was like, okay, here are things I will have liked to know, you know, and was focusing on them. I might go back and look later, but yeah, so I don�t actually � I�m guessing (pause) probably like (pause) you know, how communicative they are and like, how able they are to put people in jobs and stuff, or whether or not they like the jobs. (pause)

THERAPIST: But that�s � you don�t know?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: And you don�t have to know. [00:08:57]

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think smaller agencies then would probably be more likely to work with smaller offices, if you�re not have like a giant temp pool, and (pause) where like, you know, Tuff�s was like the big client for PSG, and yeah, so I�ll have to see. And I don�t know whether or not � maybe they do have � like maybe their process is different and maybe they do have the interviews happen in person on site. (pause) And if they did -

THERAPIST: That is your conversation coming up is in person?

CLIENT: My conversation coming up is in person. So like, you know, for like I also when I had that job for Tuff�s, I had to -

THERAPIST: Interview for that.

CLIENT: Yeah, a phone interview. And so whether or not they do phone interviews or onsite interviews. (pause) Because if they did onsite interviews, that would -

THERAPIST: It gives a chance also to see if it feels like a good fit, and lay eyes on this face, and the people that feel for it. We�ll have to see what happens, that you�ve given yourself an opportunity for something to happen. [00:10:06]

CLIENT: And I guess now that I like I might, you know, I�d be entering the pool that might even be more motivation to like finish off those applications, like in the next couple of days. (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, for the things in your field.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I think it seems important to continue to keep an eye on that stuff, so that you don�t miss something that might be really interesting to you; to be what you want rather than just what you need. (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) The ones in my field always feel like such a long shot even when I�m like qualified. I�m like, I don�t even know if they�ll get back to me; I might not get an interview or anything. And there were ones that I�ve applied to that I was qualified for, and didn�t even get an interview. [00:11:03]

So whereas like (Tuff) (ph) it�s like, A. A lot less commitment, you know, the fact that I was able to apply for them in the span of an hour or something. And most of the time that I spent was looking and trying to figure out how to apply, since some of them, their websites are really badly set up, and don�t actually give you a way to apply.

You know, but I don�t have to write cover letters, and then it�s like, oh I�m in the pool. And they might have a couple of candidates for a different job, but it�s not 50 or something. There was one other person when I was interviewing for the Tuff�s job. So the chances of getting something are higher.

THERAPIST: Yeah the chances are higher.

CLIENT: I�m just afraid that they�re going to end up paying like no money. I mean I guess minimum wage in Massachusetts is like $9.00 an hour or something. But I don�t know, maybe they pay better than that. [00:12:07] (pause)

THERAPIST: Well it�s certainly a question you can ask.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean even like going to the meeting tomorrow and being a little doubtful doesn�t (pause) (background noise) I should turn off the sound of my phone; I forgot to do that. (pause) Yeah, like even being in the temp pool doesn�t guarantee that I�m going to � like I have to take a position.

THERAPIST: Right; that�s right. (pause) You�re giving yourself an opportunity; you�re not committing. (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I guess even $10.00 an hour would be like $1600 a month, which pays like, you know, which (pause) if my parents not only had to like pay $400 a month to support me, I think they�d probably be willing and able to do that. So -

THERAPIST: For your parents, is it strictly about the numbers? Or I don�t know if this is a conversation you�ve had, or is it also the idea kind of theatrically of, you know, them supporting you without you working? [00:13:21]

CLIENT: (pause) I guess mostly � because like they do acknowledge that � well if I could find another volunteer position, that it�s like good to be doing something in my field. You know, and they�d see that as working, if I was actually doing something, like when I was at the Historical Society.

But I think it comes down to numbers, because most of what they�ve been saying is �You know, we need to be able to save for retirement. We�re going to stop working in a few years; we don�t have the money to support you.� (pause) So (pause) I think if I could it down to them paying $400 a month, that would be more than enough. [00:14:13] (pause)

THERAPIST: So how can you keep, and certainly you�re on an upswing from when I saw you on Monday? What do you think you can do to keep this going? I would much rather for you to stay in this place where you�re feeling some optimism; it seems like your mood is much brighter than it was on Monday. What can you do to keep that going?

CLIENT: I guess I have to keep on like applying to things and stuff. Because I don�t know, because what if I do get something and then it�s like really tiring, and then my mood goes down. I don�t know that getting a job would guarantee me feeling happier, but (pause) I was really happy when I was working at my old job. So I do have the ability to be happy in a job.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I just need to not have a soul-sucking commute, and yeah, I can even be happy in like an office administrative assistant type job. (pause) That and then I guess doing more social stuff, because Monday night I have my D & D game, and then last night I had swing dancing. So I think if I can get out of the house more, [00:15:34]

THERAPIST: Okay, so what�s on tap? So tomorrow you have this interview.

CLIENT: Interview.

THERAPIST: Is there anything social that you can plan for today, tomorrow and the next day?

CLIENT: Well, tonight I�m probably � well, I guess it depends on how long I think I�m probably going to go swing dancing tonight.

THERAPIST: Okay. (pause)

CLIENT: But it doesn�t feel good. Like contra dancing is so much friendlier, and stuff, so -

THERAPIST: So it was contra last night; swing tonight?

CLIENT: Yeah. So I don�t think I � it will make me quite as happy to go to swing � like I�ll feel like I accomplished something, but you know it�s -

THERAPIST: But it�s not happy.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It�s kind of like feeling satisfied.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess just � yeah, because it�s always like so awkward to ask people to dance and stuff. And like I usually end up having to do most of the asking. With contra, it was a smaller group of people; they�re approximately like an even number of men and women, and so you basically end up dancing with almost anyone. So you�d basically just ask like the next person who you haven�t danced with yet to dance for each dance. [00:16:43]

And they�re also � since each dance is like 15 or maybe only 10; it�s still like 10 minutes long, like there are less dances, so you have to find less dance partners. Whereas like with swing, you usually end up sitting out a few songs; dancing a few; sitting out a few, and you know, because of the not having someone to dance with. (pause) I mean it should lower stakes; I don�t know why it�s a big deal.

THERAPIST: But it feels hard to kind of put yourself up there.

CLIENT: Yeah. It just � it would be nicer if more people were asking me to dance. And I guess also like getting to someone before they get to someone else. Except for one guy this time around in swing day; like I�ve only had one guy say that would be rude about it. Most people I ask say yeah, so that sometimes a couple like, you know, they�re going to get water and sitting the dance out or something like that. [00:17:50]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But it�s still -

THERAPIST: Do you know � do you have anyone that would go with you? Anyone that�s interested in swing? (pause)

CLIENT: I don�t think so. (pause) Like Sydney has said, he�s kind of interested, but like he has never actually made any -

THERAPIST: Well and also, it�s hard to rely on him to be able to follow through with things. He might not want to create that -

CLIENT: Yeah, because if I had a dance partner that I could dance with for all the dances -

THERAPIST: Yeah, that would make it much easier -

CLIENT: I�d never have to ask anyone to dance (chuckle) again. But (pause) I guess there was � I mean, I still could only ask to dance once, but there was actually a swing dance person who was at contra last night, and he�s like sort of still learning and stuff. So he seems like he will be an easy person to ask. [00:18:50]

THERAPIST: Yeah, so looking for those people that reduce kind of the angsty part -

CLIENT: Yeah, there�re are maybe like three of those people, and you know, what 15 dances or something, so that doesn�t actually � you know, and then once you�ve danced with someone, you can�t dance with them again. (chuckle)

THERAPIST: Oh really?

CLIENT: Well, that�s the social norm. Like you don�t ask someone � you don�t dance with someone twice; definitely not twice in a row. Maybe again towards the end of the evening, if it�s like okay, you�ve danced with most of the people, it�s like we�re both not dancing; it�s silly to (pause) not dance.

But yeah, it�s a very strong (pause) unwritten social norm, that you only dance with each person once, unless they�re like your established dance partner who you brought with you to dance with.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know, because otherwise then I could just ask the two or three people like to switch off, and � (pause) yeah, I guess � (pause) well I guess there�s no way of knowing that if you�ve never gone to a swing dance before. [00:20:03]

But like once you�re there, it�s very very apparent. (pause)

THERAPIST: Well you have experience at this, so you know the rules.

CLIENT: But never, yeah, no one�s ever actually like � at one point, I was talking to this woman who like we were both not dancing, and we were talking about how the rule is kind of ridiculous. I mean I guess it encourages people to dance with other people.

THERAPIST: Yeah, make sure everyone kind of gets a turn.

CLIENT: Yeah. Still it�s so hard. Yeah, of getting the energy to ask like ten people to dance; it�s really hard. You know, I guess if there were a contra on Wednesday night, I would go to that, but like -

THERAPIST: But like you said, it�s not as consistent, and getting out; being social; getting your activity in; those are really important things.

CLIENT: And the contra in Norfolk is like all the way in Norfolk. I could go to that on Thursday nights, but like it�s usually -

THERAPIST: It�s a distance.

CLIENT: Yeah, and then like I have to overcome a lot of inertia in order to go there, whereas like, you know, Stanford is just like [00:21:09]

THERAPIST: Much easier, right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Let�s take it step by step, and tonight the swing?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And it�s important to go, even though there�s these hard parts about it, because it does get you out; it feels satisfying to have accomplished something, and it�s good movement in your day; just good for your movement, and it�s good for your physical health.

CLIENT: I need to find more ways to exercise that have less barriers to entry, and like finding the I guess -

THERAPIST: What happened to that game you were playing?

CLIENT: I sort of haven�t been doing it in awhile. I mean part of it is actually that like my phone was getting towards the end of its life, and like I don�t know if it�s because of the phone; I don�t know if it�s because it�s a new version. But it drains my phone really really quickly now.

So, it requires having a cell phone with batteries, so (pause) I�ve � that�s been the main reason why I haven�t been doing anything about it. (pause) Yeah, because otherwise I could like probably make it so we had like once a week, and date it or something like that, that people would come, and then I would get a lot of walking in. But [00:22:32]

THERAPIST: Yeah, because the weather is certainly getting much nice for things like that; being out, and walking and going places.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean I do have an extra old somewhere that if I could get hold of it, it will extend my phone�s life for a lot longer, and that might be the solution. I guess I also sort of just lost interest after awhile, because once you get to level eight, it�s (pause) that�s the highest level there is; there are not levels after that. So like that big motivation of getting to a higher level is gone.

THERAPIST: And you�ve done that?

CLIENT: And I�ve done that, and like I guess the other thing is beating the other team. But it always goes back and forth anyway, that you know, it doesn�t really seem like I�m getting that much accomplished. I mean I guess if I want to advance with people, then like you know, that�s like socialization and stuff. So -

THERAPIST: Well there�re other things you might be interested in doing outside. You�ll have to take advantage of some of the nicer weather? (pause)

CLIENT: I � (pause)

THERAPIST: Or places you want to explore that might be motivation? (background voices)

CLIENT: I don�t know if this is a � like I guess if I had someone to come with me, I would love to go to the cemetery, where like (inaudible at 00:23:53), like Rhode Island Common but like (pause) I feel like it�s (unearthing) (ph) to go do on my own, and like � (pause)

THERAPIST: Who are the people that you miss? Meaning you said some of your friends sort of moved a little bit further away? Would anybody come to those places with you?

CLIENT: I don�t know.

THERAPIST: Yep?

CLIENT: Because I used to go walking with Lucy, and now Lucy is gone. And when I was dating Cal we did a fair number of things of going out into nature and stuff. You know, but I�d never go out with Cal and like he doesn�t even live here, so I couldn�t really go walking with him as a friend. He�s out in like Wisconsin now. And Sydney is unreliable, and so (pause)

I don�t know, I guess I need more unemployed friends. But like a lot of my friends now have jobs or very work intensive degrees. You know, and a lot of (inaudible at 00:24:59) people bike, but I � my bike is still at Aaron�s place, and has a flat tire, and I feel like getting back into that � I guess I could, but (pause) I definitely wouldn�t be able to keep up with the (inaudible at 00:25:17) people right now. But (pause)

Yeah, I don�t know, maybe someone in (inaudible at 00:25:26) would want to be my walking buddy, and we could go walking once a week. (pause) If I could do that, that would probably be really good for me.

THERAPIST: Yeah, maybe that�s something to sort of put out there. Do you have like a list serve or a group e-mail?

CLIENT: I have a group e-mail. (pause) Or I could like post it on Facebook that I�m looking for a walking buddy.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean I think making those kinds of outreaches is the only way to know whether or not people are interested in having someone to be accountable to for getting a little bit more exercise. Or might be interested in meeting up, and spending more time.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah that could work. I don�t really have (inaudible at 00:26:15) yet, I probably should.

THERAPIST: Does it feel doable; putting that message out there?

CLIENT: Yeah that does. Of course if I stop temping, that would be the � start temping, that would be the end of that. (pause) Well I guess -

THERAPIST: Perhaps.

CLIENT: evening.

THERAPIST: You could. I mean stays light now. If you start temping, you don�t know exactly what the hours are going to be. And -

CLIENT: Well, I know that the place that I was talking to, they said most of their stuff is nine to five so, I do know what the hours are going to be.

THERAPIST: Plenty of light now after five this time of year. (pause)

CLIENT: I guess I could like go walking on (inaudible at 00:26:53).

THERAPIST: Yep, that is something you can do in (inaudible at 00:26:56). (pause) I mean there are ways to manage juggling work and social life balance; doesn�t have to be one thing completely cancels out the other thing. People have to be able to manage that; lots of people have to put into place ways to take care of themselves, and work, and have some time to be with others; do things they�re interested in.

And making sure when you�re looking into the future, kind of thinking, ah, this is what I need; this is what I want; not setting it up for yourself, so that it makes it so that there�re impossible to have at the same time. There are some things that you have to do because you need them; you need to have an income now, and you don�t want that cross out everything that you want as well, and it doesn�t have to. [00:27:50] (pause)

CLIENT: I just hope that I can like keep the motivation to like go out and stuff when I start working, because I could see that as draining my motivation really easily. You know, getting home and just being like, I don�t want to leave the house again until I have to.

THERAPIST: Right, but you have to overcome that inertia you talk about. (pause) And working here can help you be accountable for not letting that happen. Sometimes it does take some activation energy to get over the hump, but the things that, you know, you�re pushing yourself to want to do, they feed you back.

You know, eating healthy gives you better energy. Getting out and getting some activity; some exercise; meeting out with other people feeds you back. [00:28:48] (pause)

CLIENT: I�m so afraid that like it�s going to happen again, that like I get a temp job, and I end up hating it, and not getting used to it. And I don�t want to be the kind of person who keeps on leaving jobs. Like I kind of stay at jobs just -

THERAPIST: What made it possible to stay at your old job for awhile?

CLIENT: Like people were really nice, and the office was like nice; there were lots of windows, and natural light, and I was doing a bunch of different things, and got along with everybody. Everyone was super nice, and you know, while they had work, there was also a fair amount of socialization, and also it was like, you know, really close by; like right across the street from here pretty much. [00:29:49]

THERAPIST: How many hours a week did you do that when you were on there?

CLIENT: I was doing about 20 hours a week when I was in the summer like doing the pre-course. And then when it started to be like, the semesters, I was doing like well maybe 10 hours a week like a couple of hours a week. But not that many hours. (pause) So I guess this is also like getting used to working the whole nine to five thing, like I�ve never done that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it takes some time to adjust to that. (pause)

CLIENT: I used to live like a five minute walk to the red line. So like the commute for wherever I�m going hopefully � hopefully it�s something not ridiculous.

THERAPIST: That would be much more manageable. [00:30:47]

CLIENT: Yeah, because like getting out to Medford was also like quite a pain, and time consuming, and it definitely was nothing as bad as getting to Cheshire. (pause) But I guess I don�t have to do something social every night. I guess if I�m only doing something social like a couple of nights a week, then -

THERAPIST: That�s probably a more realistic expectation.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) And it also like when I was at University of Maryland, I guess I was like (pause) Well I also didn�t have the whole issue of having a tiny kitchen that�s really hard to prepare meals in, and then like, you know, less of a big deal worrying about what am I going to do for dinner, because I had more time.

THERAPIST: What are you doing for dinner these days? (pause)

CLIENT: Mostly take-out. (chuckle) (pause) Last night I [00:32:01]

THERAPIST: So if that�s the case now, work is not really � wouldn�t be changing that.

CLIENT: Yeah. That�s true. (pause) I mean I�d like to be doing more cooking and stuff. I actually yesterday, we had lunch; we actually had pasta in the house, and that was like the first time like since Passover that we had food that we�d made ourselves.

THERAPIST: Yeah, so you�ve really gotten out of the habit of preparing food.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I still have a ton of dishes that I need to do. I did a bunch of them yesterday, but then we used a bunch of them yesterday. So, that means -

THERAPIST: They�re dirty again.

CLIENT: Yeah. I have to do more of them. Yeah, because we did a lot of like eating on paper plates, (pause) which -

THERAPIST: It makes it easier.

CLIENT: It�s bad for the environment, but I think it�s sort of necessary for my sanity.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and sometimes you can�t take care of everything. Sometimes what you need to do is pick and choose what�s actually most important for me right now. And if reducing the workload by using paper plates is something that enables you eat at home, or make a meal, then there�s compromise. That�s okay; you have to make the best choices for you. [00:33:25] (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, but of course it means taking out more trash. (pause) But that can be delayed, and done at a convenient time when I actually have the energy to do it. (pause) I guess I could start making Sunday into the day that I do all the chores or something. (pause)

I really wish I could find something that was three quarters time, that would like -

THERAPIST: That would be like the perfect fit.

CLIENT: But that won�t happen with temping.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and you can�t necessarily find something that�s perfect � that would perfect, but it�s going to be balancing some � in reality, it�s probably going to be balancing some pros and cons. And figuring out how to make things work the best way that they can, rather than having things fall perfectly into place. [00:34:39]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: One thing I want to follow up on, which, you know, we didn�t get a chance to talk about on Monday, was you had mentioned that you and Sydney had scheduled with a couples counselor.

CLIENT: Yeah, so last week, we actually like he ended up getting sick, so we ended up having to cancel. So we have an appointment next � like this coming Tuesday.

THERAPIST: Okay, so you haven�t gone?

CLIENT: So we haven�t gone.

THERAPIST: Okay, I was curious to see how that � how it went; I hadn�t heard from you. (pause)

CLIENT: So that�s not went yet.

THERAPIST: That explains why I didn�t hear about it. (pause)

CLIENT: I think things are getting a little bit better, but I�m not sure.

THERAPIST: What feels a little bit better? [00:35:32]

CLIENT: Well, (pause) yesterday we made progress on like doing something kind of sexual, like (pause) it wasn�t � it was me using a vibrator on myself when he was like holding and touching me and stuff, which was more than we�ve done in a really long time. So that was something. (pause)

THERAPIST: How did that � did that feel emotionally good for you?

CLIENT: It did. (pause)

THERAPIST: I�m glad. (pause)

CLIENT: So I�m hoping things will get better sexually, because if I start working, then scheduling couples counseling will probably be more difficult.

THERAPIST: Do you know what it was that allowed for that interaction to take place?

CLIENT: I don�t know. I�m not sure. (pause) Because he had just sort of volunteered to. So I�m not sure. [00:36:36]

THERAPIST: And he felt comfortable?

CLIENT: Mm-mm.

THERAPIST: Oh, well it does seem hopeful. (pause)

CLIENT: I think it�s going to take a lot of hard work, (pause) because a lot of it is my fault really. The amount that we�ve been fighting, and the fact that I can�t keep my � when I get mad at him, it�s really hard to contain my anger, and not like, you know, let him know that I�m upset and angry.

Which he can�t deal with, (pause) because it usually does end up with me not like yelling yelling, but like criticizing, and it turns into a fight. But where I think, you know, it�s not fair to make me just like not be able to express my anger.

THERAPIST: But it sounds like what you guys need to work on is finding ways to effectively communicate. So it�s not that you�re not allowed to have feelings, but the way that you express those feelings needs to feel safe for him. And that might be partly in how you�re expressing things; finding ways that you can talk about what you�re feeling without it feeling critical or yelling for him. [00:37:53]

And partly ways for him to be able to (pause) can tolerate maybe a little bit of � you know, it�s hard for me to know what�s realistic without being there and hearing what the interactions are like, and that�s what the couples counselor will be able to do, right? Sort of a more objective view of, is what you�re asking him to be able to tolerate reasonable? Or is it that what he�s or not?

If it�s not reasonable, then finding ways for you to be able to express yourself that are reasonable. If what he can�t tolerate seems like it�s something that most people would be able to tolerate, then what�s going on there? That�s going to really be the roll over there, but it�s to see � really be able to see what you guys� communication is like, and give you some strategies on both ends. (pause)

But, you know, any kind of therapy work; individual or couples is hard work. (pause) It can be hard to incorporate feedback into how you do things, because the patterns that you have are pretty well established patterns. Learning new ones takes energy and time. [00:39:10] (pause)

CLIENT: I just worry if I do end up starting temping, (pause) do you have any spots that are like after work hours?

THERAPIST: I work late on Wednesday nights, and I have some early morning spots too on some days. So let�s see what happens with the temping, and we�ll work together to find time to continue to meet. It�s not something you need to be nervous about just yet. You�ll have this meeting with them tomorrow, see what comes out of that; see what offers you get. (pause) And then we�ll deal with things as they come up.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Is there anything else we should catch up on today or talk about today?

CLIENT: I mean think those were (pause) the big things.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah. I really just wanted to be able to have an extra time to meet with you since you were in such a low place on Monday. It sure feels good to not be there; it feels good to me to see you not in such a low place. [00:40:21]

So why don�t we keep our regular Monday for next week.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I know you have your meeting with them tomorrow, and you have swing dancing tonight, so there�s a couple of things on your agenda to follow up on.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I will see you Monday.

CLIENT: Okay.

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