TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: I�m (inaudible at [00:00:01]) and fully with you.

CLIENT: I had a bit of a scare with the�well, a self-inflicted scare with the drug test. In that I was all like, �Oh, it�s OK, I don�t take any drugs. Everything is fine.� And then I�m like, �Oh, wait. Klonopin is a controlled substance.�

THERAPIST: Yeah, you mentioned that when I saw you Monday.

CLIENT: Yeah, so I took the test on Tuesday. And since Sydney had been drug tested before when he was working for the government, he had mentioned, �Oh, there�s a thing that you fill out what the medications you�re taking and stuff like that.� And then there wasn�t.

THERAPIST: They had a different protocol.

CLIENT: Yeah, that and I got lost because Google defaulted to their old address, and they moved, like, three weeks ago. So I went down to the financial district and then ended up having to go to the north. [00:01:00]

And they were like, �Well if you�re taking something that would show up, the protocol is the doctor analyzes the test and then he�ll call you. And if he can�t contact you then he will contact the employer.� With no mention of how the doctor might try to call or anything like that. So then I was waiting and waiting. And then Thursday I got a call from the temp agency, and when I saw it I was like, �Oh, fuck. The doctor didn�t call me. Does this mean that it came back positive and they just went directly to my employer?� I guess it turned out negative, so I don�t know if that means they didn�t care about the Klonopin and stuff. Because the lady specifically said that those types of drugs would show up on the test, or if it was small enough not�because I was also worried about the fact that�I know with the Desipramine, when they took the level, I had an insanely high amount for the amount of Desipramine I was taking. So I metabolize drugs slower and, �Oh, no. What if it looks like I�m taking (inaudible at [00:02:06])?� So I guess�

THERAPIST: But everything was OK.

CLIENT: But everything was fine. But the thing was, I was feeling all panicky for Thursday, even after I got the phone call.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it didn�t wear-off right away. You prob�

CLIENT: Yeah. It�s terrific (ph) because I was like, �OK, I�m going to get a massage before I start work.� And I did get a massage, and it actually started during the massage. And I was trying to breathe deeply to feel more comf�because it was super feeling really, really uncomfortable�that kind of panic, when I was trying to relax.

THERAPIST: You�re noticing the power of your thoughts and your worries. The feelings that they can create.

CLIENT: But I wasn�t even thinking of the drug test at the time. And if that were the case, why wasn�t I panicking on Tuesday�

THERAPIST: So, when you started to feel panicky, you weren�t�because you just told me sounded like you were thinking a lot about the outcome of the drug test. [00:03:10]

CLIENT: But I wasn�t. I felt nervous when I saw the phone call coming up. And I felt nervous on Tuesday and Wednesday. But Thursday�because also, in the morning I had a doctor�s appointment and I found out that I�m not pre-diabetic anymore. So I was like, �You know, I should be happy,� [not feel] (ph) that I was panicking.

THERAPIST: So you were getting a massage. What was going on when you started to notice the panicky feelings? Is that when you first noticed them, during�?

CLIENT: Yeah, I don�t know. Besides getting a massage�

THERAPIST: What were you focusing on?

CLIENT: I�m not sure. I think I was just focusing on the feeling of the massage and stuff. I don�t know, for the life of me. I was also kind of�because the appointment had been at 9:20 in the morning I had been up since pretty early. And so I was really tired, too. Partly I was trying to stay awake. And I�m like, �Well, maybe it�s hunger related or something.� So then I got lunch after the massage, and then that�s when the phone call came. And then even after I ate [the lunch] (ph) I was still panicking. [00:04:21]

Sydney had his therapy appointment, so we had just gone directly to the square and I was hanging out. And then we got bubble tea. Usually I�m the one to go in and get it, but he went in and got it because I was still panicking then until sometime when I got home in the evening.

THERAPIST: And when you were�when you said you were panicking getting a bubble-tea, did that feel like�was that panic in your head? Or was that panic in your body?

CLIENT: Panic in my body. All of this was panic in my body.

THERAPIST: So it all feels like physical signs. Which is interesting, because a lot of times you say the opposite, that it�s the worries. And you don�t notice so much the physiological symptoms of what�s going on. This is a reverse for you, of what usually happens. [00:05:15]

CLIENT: It�s like this feeling of tightness. And I mean, I guess when I had gotten home I could have taken an anti-anxiety med, but by then I was OK.

THERAPIST: So by then it had worn-off?

CLIENT: Yeah. But that was�

THERAPIST: How long did it seem�?

CLIENT: The massage was at 12:15. And by the time I got home it was, like, 4:30. So that�s, like, four hours of panicking.

THERAPIST: That�s a long panic. That�s really uncomfortable. You must have been exhausted.

CLIENT: Yeah, it was. So I don�t know what that was. I guess it could have been lack of sleep.

THERAPIST: It could have been. It�s hard to know what brought that on. I mean, there was some stressful stuff going on during the week, but it wasn�t on your mind at that moment. So does that mean that it was there going on in the back of your head? Kind of�you know, that it went differently than expected? You didn�t get a form to fill-out. There was some uncertainty. Would you get a phone call from the doctor or not? [00:06:13]

CLIENT: Yeah, I was all afraid he�d call when I couldn�t pick-up, and then wouldn�t leave a message and then it�d be too late.

THERAPIST: So it is possible that those fears were hanging out in the back of your head somewhere. And then as you got relaxed, and you�re in a massage�which you�re focusing on your body, that you became aware of these feelings? It�s also possible that� you know you have a history of panic attacks. Sometime people have spontaneous panic attacks, and there�s not a known trigger. And that�s part of what�s scary about panic, is that people worry that they�re going to have a panic attack and there�s not going to be some predictable reason, or some way to predict when and where. And that�s really unsettling. Did you have meds with you?

CLIENT: Nope. I mean, I don�t take my backpack with me when I�m going on short outings.

THERAPIST: Well, and that�s OK, because as uncomfortable as it is you�re OK. Nothing bad happened. You were uncomfortable. [00:07:29]

CLIENT: No, though I was driving during parts of it.

THERAPIST: But you could have not. If that happens and you feel like you are not safe to drive, then you can pull over. Maybe not immediately, but generally there�s a way to pull over and to wait it out. Four hours is a really long time for a panic attack. Most of them are shorter lived. You see intense pieces. Often people feel shaky, but not necessarily the really intense piece lasting that long. That�s a long time. It sounds like it was really uncomfortable, and I�m sorry you went through that.

CLIENT: It�s [OK though] (ph). It doesn�t happen that often.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you�ll be OK. But that�s really uncomfortable. [00:07:29]

CLIENT: Yeah, I�m so afraid that I�ll be panicky, like maybe I made the wrong decision with the job.

THERAPIST: It sounds like, form what you described on Monday, that there�s lots of good things about this placement.

CLIENT: And I didn�t have any sort of negative reaction to when I was seeing the workspace or talking to the guy.

THERAPIST: Having had this experience this week doesn�t mean there�s something wrong about the job, or that you�re unable to do it. You don�t have to attach a lot of meaning to it. It was an uncomfortable experience. It may have been just because�no known reason why that particular time.

CLIENT: I�m starting to panic again now. [00:09:20]

THERAPIST: Just talking about it.

CLIENT: Maybe. That�s the other thing�I had coffee after my doctor�s appointment. But I don�t usually panic from coffee.

THERAPIST: Well, putting a lot of focus on it can sometimes bring it back to consciousness. Take some deep breaths, and let�s get your mind focused elsewhere. Let�s think about some of the things that went right this week.

CLIENT: Well it was really good�especially because I pretty much didn�t want to have to go on a diet to lose the weight, because it�s not sustainable for me. So I guess whatever I am doing is sustainable. Even though I haven�t been dancing for the past couple of weeks since the contracts (ph) have been happening and I have no motivation to go to swing dance. So, it�ll start up again next week, though.

THERAPIST: So you say�what kind of feedback did you get from the doctor? Did you get�and you said you were no longer meeting criteria for being pre-diabetic, but with more information? [00:10:47]

CLIENT: So, the test is�I think it�s A1C levels. And so going up to 5.6 is normal. 5.7 to some number that I can�t remember is pre-diabetic, and then after probably six or seven point something is diabetic. So when I first got tested�it was actually December 2012� I was 5.8. March 2014 I was 5.7. And as of this week I�m 5.6, and I had lost ten pounds from the last time I had been weighed in March. [00:11:49]

THERAPIST: Wow, that�s quite a significant�

CLIENT: Yeah, I didn�t feel like�I don�t think I look any different or anything. But it would explain why the size 18 pants are fitting. She had said last time I met with her that I needed to lose five to ten pounds to make that difference.

THERAPIST: It turned out that estimate was correct, and that you have been able to do some things to move toward better health for yourself.

CLIENT: So I think at this point I�m going to�my goal is to stop caring about how I actually look since I�

THERAPIST: And focus on caring about�?

CLIENT: Being able to move around and stuff. [00:12:44]

THERAPIST: That sounds really good to me.

CLIENT: At this point, now�I told my mom I�m no longer pre-diabetic and now I�m never going to talk to my parents about weight issues ever again.

THERAPIST: Yeah, because the way that they focus on weight doesn�t really feel productive or supportive.

CLIENT: Because my mom had brought it up before I got pre-diabetic, and at this point I�m like, �No, I�m healthy now.� I want to get myself a little further from being on the border of pre-diabetic. But I�m not going to be like, �OK now I�m gonna stop dancing.�

THERAPIST: Yeah, because there have been some things you enjoy about dancing.

CLIENT: Yeah, I really, really like Contra dancing.

THERAPIST: So I think focusing on doing things that you enjoy, and focusing on the ability to be able to walk further and longer, to be able to dance without getting tired�that feels good on your body, and it�s healthy. And focusing on what�s healthy and what feels good and what makes you feel good about being able to make those kinds of choices, to be able to engage in those kinds of activities, is a really useful perspective. Much more so than focusing on a number on a scale, or a size, or exactly what your body looks like. It�s what your body allows you to do. [00:14:05]

CLIENT: Except I�m still not thrilled with the way my body looks.

THERAPIST: I hear that.

CLIENT: Because I�m still on the border of being unhealthy.

THERAPIST: Well, we want to focus on getting you healthier.

CLIENT: And I can�t fit in to my tiniest dress that I really, really like. Well, I guess I don�t know for sure that I can�t fit into it. I have a sinking suspicion that I can�t fit into it. I haven�t even tried in forever because I don�t want to try it on and then not be able to get in and be really upset. And I have another dress that I can still fit into that�s also fancy, and I�ve been using that for weddings and stuff. I mean, I think I looked a lot better in it when I weighed less, like when I first got it and stuff. But it�s a very stretchy material, so it still works for things like the wedding that I had to go to in April, and the dinner with my parents that I�m going to have to go to on the 15th. Well, there I actually have to wear a skirt underneath and a shirt underneath because it�s an orthodox�for the day school and stuff. I�m kind of annoyed about it about it and the fact that I have to pretend to be orthodox, because the level of formality, I could get away with a suit. And I kind of want to wear a suit� [00:15:44]

THERAPIST: But you can�t wear a suit.

CLIENT: Yeah, the pants. Even though I wouldn�t be doing anything that�s actually wrong according to anything that is really Jewish law and not just people making stuff up. And it�s not like the suit is suggestive or anything, you know? It�s a suit.

THERAPIST: But the tradition is that you wear pants.

CLIENT: It�s a tradition in the fact that my parents are being honored and I�ll be at the head table or whatever. I just really disagree with it, and I�m trying to figure out if there�s some other way I can be subversive and I can�t really think of one. Well, I can think of one, but I�m afraid that if I do it I�ll end up getting in a lot of trouble, and that would be to wear a Kippah, since men them and women don�t. But there�s no actual rule saying that a woman can�t wear one. I mean, even if you want�it�s married women who are supposed to cover their hair, and the Kippah wouldn�t cover enough of the hair. But I�m not married, so I don�t have to have my hair covered at all. [00:17:01]

THERAPIST: What would you gain�what�s important to you about being subversive?

CLIENT: Oh, God. Just the principal. I got out of orthodoxy for a reason, and I resent having to pretend to be orthodox when I�m learned enough to know what the rules actually are, and what I�m doing is fine. But here are all these people that�I mean some of them would actually know the real rules of�know that a lot of it is added on, but then a lot of people who believe that this is the actual rule. And I just sort of want to mark myself as not orthodox.

THERAPIST: And why�are you needing to pretend in order to please your parents, or would it not be OK for you to attend as a non-orthodox person?

CLIENT: I think it�s pleasing my parents. And that�s why� [00:18:01]

THERAPIST: So it�s not that if you didn�t follow these norms that you wouldn�t be allowed to go to this dinner? I don�t think that your parents would be upset if you attended and didn�t follow these norms.

CLIENT: Exactly. Because (inaudible at [00:18:10]) to be X-formal, and is this suit formal enough? Yes. Is it OK if I wear a suit? It was like�

THERAPIST: Not OK with them. So it would be OK with�

CLIENT: Possibly even the organizers. It�s not like�I guess they just expect anyone who would actually be attending the dinner to be knowledgeable enough about orthodox Judaism to put two and two together and be like, �OK, women can�t go in with bare shoulders� or something.

THERAPIST: Yeah, well so I think it�s interesting that it�s what your feelings are, right? Because following the traditions, whether or not they�re based in rubitic (ph) rule or not is a sign of respect for the community. You don�t want to respect the community. That�s the sense I�m getting from listening� [00:19:13]

CLIENT: It�s not even with�I think it�s more I don�t want to respect my parents in that way, because I think they�re going too far with their orthodoxy and doing so many things that aren�t actually required, and spent the 30,000 dollars to redo their entire kitchen� which was already kosher�in order to make it super kosher, and having two ovens and two dishwashers. I don�t know who else will be there. I don�t know if it�s the entire community or only some of the community. It�s mostly my parents and not the community. So I mean, I guess I should just comply with the norms and�

THERAPIST: Well, I guess it depends what statement you really want to make. I think it sounds like not complying with the norms is making a very loud statement that �I don�t respect my parents.� If that�s what you want to do, then you can do that. I guess the question to ask yourself�is that really what you want to do? [00:20:21]

CLIENT: I probably should find something a little bit less public, where I can be�it�s just annoying, especially when my dad doesn�t listen to me and insists on doing Kiddush. Even though he does it really, really badly and is saying the wrong words and stuff, and doesn�t know enough about things. But it�s just because he�s male, he has to be head of the household and stuff.

THERAPIST: So you feel disrespected.

CLIENT: I feel disrespected and I feel it�s really sexist and stuff. If he actually knew what he was doing, I�d probably be fine with it. But when we go to someone else�s house and the man does Kiddush it�s not as jarring. It�s just like, �OK it�s Kiddush.� But when my dad does it really badly over me doing it quickly, or the insistence of saying (foreign at [00:21:13]) and stuff�for people who have had that tradition all along, that�s fine. But it�s not required and it�s not his tradition, and now he�s changing it and expecting everyone else to follow along with it even though he also says all the words of�he says enough of the words of (foreign at [00:21:35]) wrong, and even gets off with the music and is then singing the wrong lines of the wrong tune. And it�s just so grating for me to hear it. Now at least I have a very convenient excuse not to ever say (foreign at [00:21:52]) ever again, because my cat.

THERAPIST: But I think it sounds like the underlying feelings of resentment is you feel like they�re not demonstrating respect for you as a woman, and you as someone who studied this stuff, not just practiced it and lived it, but went to school for it, too.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don�t know. I think my dad is just really bad at Hebrew. I guess if you�re just doing it yourself it�s one thing, but then when you�re insisting on doing it over people who actually�you know, because if we had another family over and he let the man from the other family do Kiddush, I�d be fine with that, too. But his insistence on doing it just�especially if he does it when there are other people over. And I guess no one else says anything or looks�has any display of emotion that I can see. But maybe it�s not grating to them, but it�s just so grating to me. It�s like, let the people who actually know what they�re doing do this. [00:23:08]

If he were actually learning, or if I were seeing him progressing and getting better, that would be one thing. But it never does get better. He never does realize that he�s doing wrong. When I lead services and I know something is wrong, or if I do something wrong, I will know that I do something wrong. I don�t need to be corrected or anything. I realize it. And it�s why I usually only try to lead services that I actually know what I�m doing. And at this point that�s most, if not all of them. But, you know, it would feel very awkward leading a service that I barely knew. And you�d think that�so there�s a paragraph of Kiddush that only orthodox or conservative Jews say on Friday night that is the last paragraph of Genesis one and the first line of Genesis two. And I can understand him not knowing that, but the Kiddush itself�because then there�s the blessing of the wine and a paragraph after that. And the paragraph after that�we didn�t do that growing up in my house, but his parents did it growing up at his house. He should know that, and he stumbles over that, too. [00:24:48]

And it�s like, �Oh, well you can do Monsey,� I�m like, �I don�t want to do Monsey, I want to do this thing that you�re doing really badly and it�s really, really painful.� But there�s just like, �Oh, well it�s bad for women to do Kiddush, just because (foreign at [00:25:03]) says it. And the (foreign) doesn�t actually provide any source text or anything like that, it�s just an opinion. And that he values that opinion�even when it�s like�I can understand him maybe wanting to do when other people are over and not having me do Kiddush in front of�oh, it would be scandalous to the other people in the orthodox. Even when there aren�t other people over�and I�m sort of like, �Maybe this will get better if Sydney and I stay together and he converts. Maybe they�ll let Sydney to it, and he�ll actually learn it and not do it badly.� It�s just the whole �head-of-household man is more important� thing than really pisses me off�especially because he sucks at it. [00:26:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, there�s really two pieces that really bother you. One is the sexist piece of a man doing it and not being available to a woman. The other piece, it sounds like, it�s really hard for you to listen to the Hebrew incorrect, or the tune be different. And without acknowledgement that his Hebrew isn�t as fluent or his tunes aren�t as well memorized.

CLIENT: Well, the tune is�sort of what happens is that one line he gets off and so then it�s in line with the other ones, because it goes back and forth. Then he�because there�s one line that�s longer, and you have to cram it into the line, and I think that�s where he messes up. But it�s fairly early on, so then the whole rest of it is like�but he doesn�t come to realization when the end ends on a different part. I�m like, �What�s he been hearing it at other people�s houses?� And like, �Wait, I must have screwed something up.� I don�t see that realization, and he just keeps doing it that way even though��

THERAPIST: He might not hear it, or he might not care. [00:27:12]

CLIENT: Even though he hears it at other people�I guess he doesn�t pay much attention when he�s�whereas when I was becoming orthodox I actually learned these things and stuff, and bothered with it. And I don�t know why my dad is really bad at learning Hebrew. And then just his other things, too. He thinks that he knows more about Orthodox Judaism than I do. And the whole attitude about everything, and him wanting to lecture me about Judaism, and I�m like, �No, you don�t know more.� You know, at this point my parents have been orthodox longer than I was orthodox, but I still know more than my dad does. And I don�t see that changing anytime soon�especially with what he seems to be doing is really fluffy and not very scholarly. My dad is just not a very scholarly person.

I mean, I guess it also�all the history of growing up and him also trying to lecture us then about things that we didn�t care about, or tell us stories about people we don�t know or aren�t interested in. His insistence, it�s sort of like the �Because I said so,� and it�s just something I can�t respect. And I don�t really respect him. [00:28:35]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think that�s really what�s at the crux of all this anger.

CLIENT: And I don�t think I can respect him. He�s never done anything to earn my respect. And I try to be as silent about that non-respect as possible. But the respect isn�t there. I don�t think there�s any way of it getting there. And I don�t think someone automatically deserves to be respected just because they are your father.

THERAPIST: What are the things that do allow you to feel respect for someone?

CLIENT: I have no idea. I mean, I think I respect most people, and I sort of come in with an assumption of this respect. And then I guess what happens is it gets eroded away by interactions and stuff, or if someone I thought was really cool and respected them, and all of a sudden they say something homophobic, the respect will go away. So not sure what it was with my dad growing up in particular. But it�s also like, we have personalities that clash, and he�s always getting on my nerves and stuff. And I just don�t get along with him very well. (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, you have a hard time. [00:30:07]

CLIENT: Yeah, I�m wondering if maybe I should just back out of the dinner. Not sure. But I couldn�t really give a good reason. I think from what they said it sounds like, even though in general people have to pay to go, because they�re the guests of honor they get to have a certain number of people that they don�t have to actually pay for.

THERAPIST: Sounds like it�s a big deal. What are they being honored for?

CLIENT: Stuff, community�I�m going to do a quick Google check to see if I can bring it up, and if not then I�ll�actually, no. It�s probably not worth it. I won�t find it. I guess for some reason the community�I guess because my dad is now president of the Sheol, maybe? [00:31:08]

I don�t know why they elected him president of the Sheol.

THERAPIST: So other people have respect for him.

CLIENT: Yeah, I guess even though his Hebrew is really bad.

THERAPIST: What other things do you have to be good at to be president of the Sheol?

CLIENT: Probably calling people up and bugging them in order to get them to volunteer their time or money to things. So I guess actually it would be a good position for him because it involves being in your face, and being annoying, and being persistent, and my dad has all those qualities, so (laughter)�OK, I guess it does make sense that they elected him Sheol president.

THERAPIST: So it�s not really a measure of how learned you are, or what your Hebrew is like. There are other positions for that, like, Rabbi.

CLIENT: Yeah, it�s not like he�s ever invited to give a (foreign at [00:32:03]) or anything like that, so I guess I think they do know his level of learning or lack thereof. At least that�s what it sounds like from what I�ve heard of Sheol stuff, that�s what the Sheol president does.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it�s a business position. Not an education position. Not a practice.

CLIENT: There are a few things that did make me respect my dad even less growing up, or that happened mostly when I was in college. One was our�Lily, who is one of the managers of the store, who has been there forever, for as long as I can remember�at one point she was pregnant, and she was going to go off and my dad refused to give her any maternity leave time. She ended up being able to take time and get paid through something, through the state of Connecticut, I don�t quite understand�maybe temporary unemployment or whatever�it�s all like, �Oh, well she decided to get pregnant,� which you know how pregnancy is people being irresponsible, even though my grandmother decided to get pregnant and that�s why my dad exists. [00:33:31]

Both me and my grandmother had argued against him, but he would not�I guess in retrospect, if I had known now what I had known then, then I could have said things like, �Oh, that�s a really bad strategy. She is your very best worker, you want to motivate her and retain her.� I don�t know if that would have gotten through to him. So there�s that, and with my parents�when discussion of ObamaCare was first coming about, before anything had actually passed and stuff, both of my parents�especially my dad, being really against it. Even though in retrospect it�s sort of the only way that I�m able to�because I get my healthcare through the state and it�s a good thing. But also, being against that but refusing to give their cashier hourly employed people access to the health insurance through the store. So being really hypocritical about that, it�s like, �Oh, well if people wanted health insurance then they�d get a real job.� It�s like, �But you need people to be your cashiers.� [00:34:51]

So there was that, and with�

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you have very different values�?

CLIENT: A few of other things like that, different values. And sort of no respect for people who are poor and thinking that they�re poor because they�re stupid or something, or because they�re not working hard. And clearly only people who work hard succeed, and all the people who succeed work hard, and all the people who don�t succeed aren�t working hard. It�s just so infuriating.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I can see why having such different values makes it hard to respect him in any way. Because those are pretty basic values that you hold that are different from what he�s expressing.

CLIENT: And sometimes he�s been a little bit racist, too. And he can�t seem to get the memo that Asian people are no longer called Orientals, and that�s wrong. Even though I�ve told him (laughter) probably in those exact words, �You can�t call Asian people Orientals anymore. That�s wrong, that�s racist� (laughter). [00:36:05]

OK, so there are actually real reasons why I can�t respect my dad, and not just superficial ones. It just manifests itself in annoyance when he�s trying to do Jewish things and trying to be in charge when I don�t think he deserves it.

THERAPIST: So what do you want to do with those feelings? There are these good reasons�these different values that he holds and you hold�that make it hard for you to respect his values, and his actions, and his choices.

CLIENT: I don�t know. I don�t think I�m just going to be able to let go of it.

THERAPIST: No, they�re hard things to let go of.

CLIENT: Just temporarily masking them while I�m at the dinner and not doing anything that would cause a scene. Which, I mean, I think I can do, and I�ll mostly be talking to people and whatever. And I�m hoping they�re not going to have my dad give a speech. And, yeah, because of course it would be my dad doing the speech. Even though it�s both of them being honored, it would be my dad giving a speech and not my mom. I don�t know if there�s a speech. I don�t know if I should ask about that or just be prepared for it. I�m hoping there won�t be. [00:37:21]

THERAPIST: It�s a tough position to be in. to be asked to sit quietly when things are happening that make no sense to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I guess most people�even though they don�t know his values about workers and stuff like that, or they agree with them.

THERAPIST: Yeah, they may not have had an opportunity to be exposed to those same things that you were exposed to, to hear those sides.

CLIENT: But it�s not like I�m going to tell them, either.

THERAPIST: But it also� maybe those things don�t pertain to this particular�finding ways to separate for yourself to make it easier to sit and behave in a way that is comfortable for the rest of your group, right? Because it�s not just you and your parents there. There�s a difference between the family dinner, where you might push back, and wanting to be respectful to the community, even though you might not feel a lot of respect for your dad. [00:38:24]

CLIENT: Yeah, so I�m just going to have to pretend to be respectful, and wear respectful clothes and all that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Following certain protocols on the outside even though you may not feel them on the inside, and if you can find a way to do that in a way that doesn�t betray any of your values. Wearing a skirt doesn�t really betray your values. So I think finding ways to make sure that you feel like you�re able to stay true to yourself. You don�t need to agree with some of the things that are�if things are said, you don�t have to agree with them. You can probably find ways to be true to yourself, which is really important, without making yourself uncomfortable, without making a scene. And continuing, maybe in private ways, to be able to express that you hold a different view than your dad. You don�t have to agree with him.

CLIENT: That�s part of the reason why I wanted to take over the store, was to right all the wrongs and give all the cashiers the opportunity to get healthcare, except it�s not worth moving to Connecticut now that I finally have a job. [00:39:44]

But I feel like something needs to be done to make up for it, but they�re going to sell the store. But hopefully it will sell to someone who�

THERAPIST: Maybe who�d practice with more of your ideals in place?

CLIENT: Especially because I�m benefitting from the money that they save to not give them health insurance, and it feels really, really wrong.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it doesn�t really match up for you. Speaking of your job, did we�

CLIENT: I�m starting on the 16th.

THERAPIST: The 16th, OK.

CLIENT: And so we have the appointment for the 23rd at 8:30 in the morning.

THERAPIST: And we think that will still work?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And do we have anything between now and then?

CLIENT: I don�t think so.

THERAPIST: Because we probably could, right? Now that you know you�re not starting until�do you want to meet on the 13th, which is next Friday?

CLIENT: That could work. What time?

THERAPIST: I have 10:30, 11:30, or 2:30.

CLIENT: How about the 2:30.

THERAPIST: OK, let�s put that in. That gives us enough time to where we don�t have to worry about much the schedule. We�ll do the 13th, then that gives you a week to sort of get acclimated, figure out how things work. And we have the 8:30 on the 23rd. (Pause)

CLIENT: OK.

THERAPIST: Well, I will see you next Friday, then. Take care.

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