TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Okay great.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:00:11) between gym and work, yeah.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: Hi. How are you?

THERAPIST: Good. Thank you.

CLIENT: It’s been a good week. I feel... (inaudible at 00:00:25) I feel like it was, it was like refreshing, you know? Like I left here and went home and processed a bunch of stuff and it was like, “Okay. I can see myself in some of these situations, you know, some of the terms that you said.” Like I think you said self-destructive was one of those. So yeah. That was good. I think it was like... You know, at some point over the weekend, I was up in Provincetown and I was like, “Yeah. It makes a good bit of sense.” [00:01:03]

So it was nice. I felt like I was having, really starting to have some connections around what’s going on and all that.

THERAPIST: Does it help sort of organize like what’s... Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I think... I wouldn’t organize... I think it’s just nice to be able to put terms on things, you know, and be able to be like, “Oh, okay. This is a type of behavior that I have or this is what I was doing.” I don’t know. Something about that just made me feel like good, like it’s been a pretty good... Since I talked to you last, whatever, that was Thursday, I just feel like it’s been, like things have been going really well which is nice. I don’t know if that’s a correlation or a causality. It’s been good. So, yeah. I had a... You know, I had a really good conversation with my boss’s boss about my job. And, you know, I think I had mentioned that before where it’s just I’m in, I’m in a spot where I’m not necessarily doing, you know, what I want to be doing. [00:02:05]

I’m a consultant right now but I want to kind of get back on the, more on the like building side. And that’s typically been a pretty frustrating conversation to have because it falls on deaf ears. I don’t know if it was just the approach or what. But it seems like it landed pretty well because we’ve had the same conversation before and it’s been like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” He’s like, “Yeah. I’ll go do these things.” Then nothing would happen. So this was... It felt better because it was like, “well, look. Here’s how we’re going to do this. You know, this is what I want to do and here’s how we’re going to work from where I am today to where I want to be.” You know, he could have just totally blown smoke up my ass but it was nice to have him... But yeah, that’s good. That makes a lot of sense unless we get, you know, there’s some sort of immediate milestones in there which feels pretty good to have. So that was good. [00:02:57]

And then, yeah, I’m trying to think. Like spending... Like I was actually looking forward to the (inaudible at 00:03:15) which was nice because it’s like... It’s an opportunity for me to talk or whatever which is good to have. But, yeah, the thing about my boss, or my boss’s boss, that made me feel good because it’s been a constant source of, like a constant source of frustration, you know, where it’s like, “What the hell am I doing?” You know? I left Google to this big pay cut and making sacrifices in all areas of my life to do something I want to do. It doesn’t make like a lot of sense and before it was just, it was really frustrating to deal with. And at least now it feels like there’s a couple steps to take to get me in a direction that I want to be going in. [00:04:01]

I think, you know, with Charles, that’s my boss’s boss, he’s not exactly the most trustworthy guy. So the reason I got this job, I worked with his fiancé at the time and she and I hooked up at one point while they were together. Then she broke... He broke up with her. You know, he called off the engagement or whatever. Then they got back together. Then they got reengaged. Then she found out he had been engaged to another woman for like six years that they were dating. So like yeah. So that is sort of reflection of how he is in all of his relationships, business included. So that’s kind of like this... You know, I don’t know if I’m tricking myself. But I have to at least act with good faith that he’s going to do what he says he’s going to do because if I don’t then there’s just... You can kind of write that off right away. [00:05:03]

Where it’s like, “Well, you didn’t hold up your end of the bargain, so clearly I don’t have to hold up mine.” So at least if I do what I, you know, do what we kind of agreed on and kind of take those steps and then he doesn’t hold up his, it’s a lot more clean, I think. It’s like, “Well, this is what we talked about and, you know, this is what I delivered on. And this is what we talked about me delivering on and this is what you said you’re going to do and you didn’t do that. So I don’t know where that leads us but I think that leads me on a pretty clear position to leave with no hard feelings.” And that’s good. So... (PAUSE) I think one of the things too that was helpful is that, you know, I kind of laid it out to him. The big pitch to keep people around at a startup is always, “Well, think about the money you’re walking away from.” You know? You get this equity stake in investments over, you know, invests over four years. But the first year of it, you don’t get anything. It’s like you have to serve a year before you’re investing and then everything vests over the remaining. [00:06:07]

So it’s like, “If you leave before your one year, it’s like you’ve erased all this time.” It’s like, “Luke, it’s not really about the money. You know, because I could go back to Google and recoup all that lost money and then some.” You know, because I left on good terms with them. So let’s not try to sell me on that angle. Let’s actually try to make this a mutually beneficial thing. You know? Because I think he knows that I’m good at product management side of things from what I did at Google. At least, he says he thinks I’m good at it which, again, you only know so much. I suppose the actions will speak louder there. But it’s kind of like all the pieces are falling into place in that regard which is nice. That’s like a stressor removed. So and then my mom hasn’t really bothered me much this week which is nice. That’s helpful. [00:06:59]

THERAPIST: Not much?

CLIENT: Not much. No. She hasn’t like... I think we talked. We talked on Sunday for a little bit. And she was, you know, she out to get a new cell phone and she was going to text me after she got it and now it’s what, Wednesday afternoon, and I haven’t heard from her. (New York CityUGHTER) Presumably that went... Question mark? So, yeah, that was cool. It was actually nice just have a normal... I feel like if I don’t catch her before lunchtime, she’ll be drunk by the time I call her.

THERAPIST: Is she drinking a lot?

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: Has she always had an alcohol problem or just since her breakdowns?

CLIENT: I probably notice it now because I’m more attuned to it. I think it’s always been there. It’s just now it’s more like when I was... Like last time I was at home, I went and I met her for lunch before we went to my grandparents’ barbeque. We were at lunch and she was like, “Another glass of wine, another glass of wine.” She had like three glasses of wine at lunch before we made it to my grandparents’ and then it was just knocking it back, you know, like... [00:08:09]

So, yeah. I guess I notice it more now. But I’m sure it’s always been there is some manifestation for a while. I can’t pinpoint a time when it started. But I know I knew how to open a wine bottle at like age nine. (New York CityUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Wow. For her.

CLIENT: Yeah. For her or for any other, you know, my grandparents as well. I mean, that’s a useful skill to have, I suppose. It’s served me well. I think I could open a wine bottle with a screwdriver if I had to. I don’t know if that’s a redeeming characteristic or not. It certainly helpful when you don’t have a wine opener.

THERAPIST: But it sounds like addiction runs in your family.

CLIENT: I would probably agree with that. I think that’s one of the reasons why I have the like... I actually... It was funny. On Thursday, I was actually lifting... I came back from here. I went to work for a while. And I went to lift with one of my buddies. [00:09:03]

And I was just like, “You know, I think I’m going to stop drinking after eleven o’clock when we go out (inaudible at 00:09:11) because it seems like that’s a good cut off. You know? And surprisingly, I didn’t get any shit from that because there’s a lot of that that goes on. You know, people talk shit and give you a hard time because it’s not manly, you know (inaudible at 00:09:29) You get that. But, yeah, it was nice to hear that. Because it was like, you know, I don’t think it’s really good to come home, not know how you got there, not know who you’ve with, not really be sure what happened between a certain point of time. So cutting it off seems... We’ll see once the season starts. But that seems like a good sort of mental place to, you know, let go and stop. And then I went out on Friday... I guess the test will be when it’s not a good week. But it had been pretty good and it was nice because I was out with, for a going away party for coworkers. [00:10:15]

And it was like... I wasn’t... Like I didn’t get drunk the entire night. It was good. I met an on again, off again girlfriend for dinner and that... Like I had like two drinks there and then I met another girl I was sort of dating for... I actually... I met her and I didn’t drink at all. So, over the course of the night, I had four, five, yeah, five drinks which over, from five o’clock until two in the morning, that’s pretty, that’s a pretty easy night for me. So it was just... It was... I don’t know if it was what we had talked about, just making destructive decisions or what. But it was... I’m certainly cognizant of it more and it didn’t... It felt like I, you know, kind of threaded, I guess, threaded the needle is what I always say. Like I was enjoying myself and was having fun but I wasn’t, you know, just like completely plastered which is... It was nice. [00:11:11]

I felt like an adult as opposed to, you know, somebody who was...

THERAPIST: Like you had some control over your life and you can make directions.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It’s not like things happen to you and you do things that you regret later.

CLIENT: Yeah. It was nice. We’ll see. I don’t know. So, the whole regret thing... So I went to... I spent the night with... So, there’s Melanie (ph). Let’s set the cast of characters here. So there’s Melanie and I’ve been dating her on and off for probably over a year now. I met her at a bar in Falmouth (ph). She’s older than me. She was unemployed at the time. We were going really well and then I cheated on her and then we broke up and then we got back together and then we were, things were going really well and then we broke up and we got back together and then, most recently, she decided it would be a good idea on her birthday... We were drinking a lot. [00:12:19]

I think I told you. She hit me and I was like, “Ehh... On your way out.”

THERAPIST: Oh, that was her.

CLIENT: Yeah. That was her. So we were off and I thought we were actually done like for good there. So I started, you know, dating. It was probably a mistake because I don’t think I was ready for that. I don’t think I closed that chapter and then moved on and like reflected and learn from my past relationship. It was just sort of, “Alright. Let’s get on here and let’s go and get out there and start dating again,” because that’s... Like it feels like to me that helps me, I don’t want to say behave myself, but that keeps me in check more. So it’s like I see that out. [00:13:01]

It’s like a stability thing. You know, I can... If I have somebody else in my life, I feel like I’ll be better with myself. So I dated this one girl and she was... Like we went on a couple dates and I couldn’t... She was really, she was thirty and she was like, “Oh, I’m going to go back to New York City and I’m going to sing and dance,” and it was like, “You’re thirty. You’re not going to be an actress at thirty. Like you’re not going to break into it at thirty unless you have like, have some God given talent like Susan Boyle, you’re not going to go do that. Like let’s be realistic.” She was too far out there for me.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:13:43)

CLIENT: No, it’s good. So then I met this other girl, Physician’s Assistant, really cute. I met her online and we went on a couple dates and like it went really, really well. And everything, I thought, was going really, really well and then, you know, and then my... [00:14:03]

Melanie, you know, shoots me an e-mail. She’s like, “Oh (inaudible at 00:14:09) That through me for such a whirl and I’ve been kind of... I don’t know why she decided to e-mail me that. It felt, at the time, like she was really sticking it to me. I’m not sure... You know, I’m not sure what I think I feel about that. I’ve sort of moved on. I don’t want to spend a long time thinking about it because it’s incredibly agitating to me. And I thought it was alright and... So the physician’s assistant, her name is Samantha (ph), [].

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Yeah, it’s an interesting trivia question for you. So things went really well with her. It was really like just easy. She was super chill. Like first girl I’ve ever dated who makes more money than me. She’s got her shit together. Things were going really well. We went to Provincetown and, you know, I realize that I’m still incredibly... [00:15:01]

I enjoy spending time with Melanie. Like I have really strong feelings for her still. And I think because I got into dating so quickly, I couldn’t, I never gave myself time to process that. Yeah. I never gave myself time to process that. So it’s like I’ve kind of gotten, you know, pulled back in. And I don’t want to say pulled back in because I’m here willingly. It seems like it’s going well with Melanie and I called Samantha on Monday after work and I was like, “Look, you know, we can’t do this. I’m not in the right spot for a relationship,” which was devastating for her because she was really, she was really digging our, you know, dating or whatever you want to call it and she felt comfortable. she was like, “Oh, you’re such a gentleman. You’re a good guy. You didn’t try to... You didn’t hurt me. You didn’t try to kiss me or anything like that.” The third night that we went out, she like invited me to stay at her place because we were going out to brunch the following morning. [00:16:03]

She was like, “why don’t you just spend the night?” I was like, “Okay. I can sleep on the couch if you want. Like no problem.” She was like, “Oh, that’s so nice. You’re such a good guy.” It was like all of that. Yeah. So I guess I broke up with her. I’m now dating Melanie again and it’s going well. So, yeah. That’s kind of complicated. And it’s tough because it’s... Like, with Melanie, everything feels really good but because there’s so much history, it’s like... Like, even last night, I had dinner at her house and I spent the night and she was like, “You know, I don’t know like...” What did she say? Something to the effect of, “I don’t know how comfortable I am with this. It’s like you’re waiting for...” She was kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know? Because she’s convinced that any time it starts to go really well, like I pull away. And I don’t know if I do that. [00:16:59]

I think I’m... Well, maybe I do. (PAUSE) I don’t know if I’d characterize it like that. I think with her, with her hitting me, it’s like that’s just total bullshit. You don’t do that. And I was like, “You know, if I hit you, I’d be in jail. Like I’d lose my job. Like that would not have gone, that would not have been okay by any objective stretch of the imagination.” And, you know, she will try to justify it and explain it in a bunch of different ways and it’s like, “Okay. So...” Yeah.

THERAPIST: What did you do that she hit you? I forgot. You told me...

CLIENT: She was just pissed because it started out with she was pissed that she didn’t have a lot of room in my apartment. I live in a studio. So it’s not like there’s a lot of room to being with and she had like... She had a shelf in my bathroom. She had her toiletries, you know, all over in the shower. She had some space in my closet to hang stuff up and she had space for her shoes. So it was kind of like, “I don’t know how much more space I can give you. I don’t have... If I give you any more space, I’m getting rid of stuff that I wear once every twelve days. Like I can’t sacrifice a twelfth of my wardrobe for you to be able to have, you know, a little bit more convenience when you’re coming over to see me.” I didn’t say it like that. [00:18:15]

I was like, “Look. You’ve got as much space... I don’t have a lot of space to give you.” So that just... It went from there to she was mad, you know, about the fact that I had cheated on her. And like everything just came out at that point. So there was a lot of probably pent up anger there.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I’m not going to say like... I’ve done some things that I’m not proud of. Like I’m not proud that I’ve cheated on Melanie. I never thought I’d be that type of person. But it happened. And I was certainly as willing a participant in it as the people I cheated on her with. You know? And I enjoyed it. I had fun and I did it in part, you know, because Melanie... I was in a nine year relationship before I met Melanie. [00:18:59]

And then I was single... I was single for like six months and then I met her in a bar and we just had a great conversation and it just kind of continued and it was really awesome. But she had, at times... And she had... She was, what, thirty one when I met her. And I was twenty seven and so she had been, you know, combined since middle school, like number of years in a relationship were three. So she had had, you know, extended period of singleness. And at the strangest times, that would come up and I get like she was weaponizing her past against me, if such a thing is possible. So we’d be like having sex and she would have an orgasm and she’d be like, “Well, you’re, you know, I used to date black guys and you’re not as big as them.” And it’s like, “What? That’s maybe not the right thing to say when you’re having sex with somebody.” Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or probably ever. But...

CLIENT: Yeah. It’s one of those things where it’s like you probably shouldn’t talk about your sexual past with anybody. So it came up enough times that it was like... I had been... At that time, I was still at Google and I had been working on this project where I had spent, you know, let’s say in a given... [00:20:11]

It had started shortly after my birthday so it started like the end of September. Between the end of September and Thanksgiving, I had spent two weeks in Providence and the remainder I was in Oregon. And at the tail end of all that I was in Oregon for work and then I had to present at a conference in San Diego. So before I left Oregon... We had gotten into... It was a stupid fight about, I don’t know, something like I hadn’t called her or something like that. So I go to this party. I end up hooking up with one of my coworkers. Then I’m in Vegas and this is when I meet... This is when I hook up with Charles’s (ph), my current CEO’s, the fiancé. Right. Yeah. And I did it. It felt good. I was like... I enjoyed it quite thoroughly. [00:21:03]

And part of it, I was like, you know, “Fuck you. Like I’m going to stick it to you now. And you’re going to feel what I feel every time you mention, you know, there’s some new name that comes up of some guy that you, you know, hooked with or fucked in some bathroom somewhere. Like not cool. Like, here. Now I’m going to stick it to you.” So that, I think, it part of the motivation why I did it. And the other part is, you know, I’ve never had... Like having not been single for like long periods of time, it was really, really nice to feel like so attractive that someone would want to, you know, kind of pounce on you. That felt really good and that was like a huge ego boost. So there’s that. So that, I think, encapsulates part of what I think are... So coming back to what I had said before, so all of this I think is where she’s coming from and all of that comes out at this moment on her birthday. And it’s like, “Okay. Fine. I’ll admit I’ve done wrong here. I haven’t been the best boyfriend in the world. But let’s look at like the very recent past. Like what have I done?” [00:22:09]

“You know, we had a great birthday weekend. You know, you got some super awesome gift from me.” You know, I got her a new iPhone. Let’s see. Great birthday dinner. Great birthday... Before the dinner, I had some stuff I needed to return to the store. I was like, “Look. Here’s my card. Here’s something to return. It’s like two hundred dollars’ worth of stuff. I’ve already paid the bill. Return it and get yourself two hundred dollars’ worth of stuff. You know, I can’t get out of work. So go do that and we’re going to meet near the store, grab some wine and some cheese and do that before we go out to dinner.” Have a nice dinner at Ruth’s Chris. I told them it was her birthday. You know, we go down to the table. It’s got “Happy Birthday” written on it. They gave her a little cake. The whole shebang. It’s like... I don’t know. It’s... I mean, maybe I’m dumb for getting back together with her. Okay. Great. I understand I did a lot of wrong but I’ve spent, you know, at that point, six, seven months trying to make up for fucking up. You know? [00:23:11]

And like you’ve got to kind of maybe come to terms with it if we’re going to be together. I don’t know if she ever like fully did or maybe she did and just part of her didn’t or what. But, you know, it was certainly... The correct response in my mind would not have been to hit me on the night of your birthday. I think there’s probably better ways to handle it. So... Yeah. So that’s who I’ve decided to throw my cards in with again for a couple different reasons. I think as long as we’re talking and as long as we don’t stagnate, I think we’re okay. We’ve talked about that a little bit. She’s just a good... Contrary to everything terrible I just said (LAUGHTER) I think she’s got a good... She’s a good person. So there’s that. And I think also there’s part of me that knows that if I approach correctly... [00:24:17]

Let’s say this doesn’t work out for whatever reason. I’m not, you know, I’m not concerned... I don’t have any concern that I would be alone. I can meet people if I needed to. I can, you know, maybe Samantha or maybe someone like Samantha or someone completely different. It’s not... That’s not a worry. It’s not like I have to stay in a relationship just to be in a relationship. (PAUSE) And I think... Yeah. I don’t know. It’s going to be weird to because we... We had kind of a... We didn’t have a messy breakup from my standpoint. I was just like, “Look. We’re not doing this anymore. Here’s your stuff. Give me my keys back.” [00:25:01]

And like I told I think my dad, my old boss and a couple of friends it happened. And like the part of the story of why we broke up, the friends just didn’t get that part of the story. That was just omitted from what they heard. That’s all they heard was that I broke up with her which is great. One little precipitating incident was missing from that story that’s going to make the reintegration into the broader friend groups probably really challenging. I was just at the food store and I bumped into one of her friends. She’s like, “Oh, how are you?” I was like, “Good. So Melanie and I are dating again or something.” And she was like, “Oh, how’s that going?” I was like, “So far so good.” Yeah. I think this is the last one. I’m not going to do this again. I don’t want to... It’s a waste of both of our times if it doesn’t work out, you know, any further. You know, she’s thirty three now and she’s super keen for like settling down and babies and all that. [00:25:57]

If, you know, if I’m not the one, we better kind of... We make sure that I’m not the one and then we go from there. So she can go off and find, you know, a husband or whatever and I can go find whatever the hell it is I’m looking for.

THERAPIST: This is interesting (inaudible at 00:26:15)

CLIENT: No. It’s not. Like I think emotionally, I have no issue with like marriage, family, kids, no problem. You know? Definitely having a number of kids greater than one. I don’t know. Maybe the upper bound on that’s like three. I’ve heard three is good because if you have two, they’ll all work together but if you have three, there’s always one who’s going to rat out the other two who are working together. It minimizes the mischief. So apparently you don’t... I guess three. So two or three. But like the whole, like, the whole settling down part of it is what doesn’t make me feel good. Like the house in the suburbs with like the picket fence and the minivan, like not my speed. [00:27:09]

I don’t know... I can’t imagine doing that.

THERAPIST: Is that synonymous with the settling down?

CLIENT: Well, I think that’s like the notion of settling down. That’s like the American idealized like, “Hey. I’m going to settled down...” I could get married and have kids and never own a house and just travel the world as jobs presented themselves in far-fetched places. And like I think that would be fine and I think that that’s maybe a little selfish for the kids. But I think that’s a pretty awesome experience. Like how many kids get to travel the world with their parents? But, yeah, like living in the city is important after, you know, like after I’m, I guess when I’m married or serious engagement type situation. [00:28:03]

It’s just there’s so, so much to do. You know? There’s all these like... There’s always stuff you can go and whatever kind of food you want. I grew up in the sticks. So it’s like there was a pizza place. You know, every strip mall had a pizza place and there was like three strip malls. Okay great. Which pizza place do you want? There’s like one Chinese food restaurant. There’s like... You go two towns over, there’s a Thai restaurant. There was like one Indian restaurant. Here it’s like what do you want? You know? What’s the new thing? (inaudible at 00:28:35) You like grilled cheese? There’s grilled cheese. What do you... Like you’ve got that flexibility and maybe that’s part of it actually. It’s funny. So when I was... Before I left Google, I was talking about... What do I do? Do I buy, you know, do I buy a car or do I put a down payment on a condo in Austin or something? [00:29:01]

Because I like Austin and I’m not totally convinced that I’ll ever be able to afford to buy something in Providence. So it was like... And I was at the point where I was at Google... Not being able to itemize was like... It hurt a lot. Like there’s appreciable amount of money was going away because I couldn’t do that. And that was a discussion that I had, like a long discussion that I had with my dad. Like can you buy your vacation before you buy your permanent home? Is that okay? Obviously there’s no rules against it. But there was just sort of that’s where my head was at because I am not totally... I don’t know if it’s that I’m not totally convinced I’ll be in Providence. I know I won’t be in Providence forever but I’m not totally convinced that there will ever be somewhere I want to be forever. So that probably ties into the comment where it’s like, “Well, I’ll find whatever it is I’m looking for,” because I’m not totally sure about stuff like that.

(PAUSE) [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: Are you not sure if some place will feel like home?

CLIENT: I read one time that the more places you see, the fewer places... The more places the see, the more things you like from each of them and the fewer places have everything that you’re looking for. So the more that you travel... []... And like the more of the world that you experience, the more, you know, sort of homogenized maybe? I don’t know. The more of the experiences that you get, you start to put, “Okay. I like this part of that and there’s no one place that will have all of that.” You know? Like I think back to some of my friends who never left the place that we grew up in. Like coming out to Providence is a huge deal for them. [00:30:55]

Like, “We’re going to have to jump on the highway, take the train. What do you mean we can go...” There’s more than two restaurants. It’s like, “Yes, there’s seven in my neighborhood. Which one would you like to go to? And, yes, they’re all open for lunch.” (LAUGHTER) But when your world’s really small, I think it’s easy to feel like home because home is that one place that doesn’t feel like anywhere else to you because it’s the only thing that you know. Everything is foreign. But at some point, you’ve seen the whole world and it becomes like what do you want to settle for almost? There’s not going to be any one place that has everything and it’s sort of making that decision, you know, either consciously or whether there’s, “Hey, this place has got a good job. My wife’s family is from here. I like the schools. The food’s okay. But it doesn’t have X, Y, and Z. That’s fine. I’m willing to forgo X, Y, and Z for this goodness that’s here.” And I don’t know if I’ve ever felt like that. [00:31:57]

Providence is, you know, I’ve spent more time in Providence on my own than I have anywhere else so it’s a good... I call it like I’m from Providence. I mean, I didn’t grow up here. I grew up in New Jersey but I feel like... I’ve grown up in Providence. I was maybe raised in New Jersey. But, yeah. I forgot what your question was. Was it no place feels like home?

THERAPIST: Home. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know what that would entail. Like I don’t know what home would be. You know, I don’t know how I would know if a place felt like home or not not because... I don’t know. Yeah. That’s actually a pretty deep question. That’s why you’re the therapist. (LAUGHTER) that’s clever. I don’t know. [00:33:01]

I could think about it in terms of characteristics like what, like what would it be like, like what would I be able to do. Like have a space for cars and activities and stuff. But like that’s stuff. That’s not actually what it feels like. (PAUSE) Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know what that would... I don’t know how I would know I was there until I actually felt it. You know, you go over to people’s... Even people that own places, like you go over and like, you know, you’re there and you’re like, “Is this is? Is this your home? Is this your house? What do you call it?” I don’t know. that doesn’t make any sense. But the...

(PAUSE) [00:34:00]

CLIENT: It felt... When I was first out in Portland, I lived in the suburbs. I lived sort of right by... There’s Portland, []. I lived out there when I first moved out there and like that probably felt like home. I was with Iris (ph) with my one girlfriend. We had a big two bedroom townhouse. It had a table. It had a table. Way to go Luke (ph). You’re an adult now. It had a big table that sat like twelve. We did Thanksgiving and had a cat. Like that felt like home, I guess. [00:35:03]

Yeah. That felt like home because we did things that you do at home. We had like Thanksgiving. We had people over, hosted the Super Bowl. Patriots decided to not play all the well against the Giants the first time. You know, we did stuff like that and I haven’t been able to do that pretty much since I moved back to Providence, at first with her and now I’m in my little studio so you really don’t have but five people over in a studio. Your apartment is at capacity. So that’s probably one of the things that you would be able to do that would make a place feel like home to me to have the ability to do that. And then also to have the people nearby with whom you would do those sorts of things, like a good core group. We did that at first when we were out at Portland. There was a pretty tight group of us because like seventeen of us from Amherst had started at Google at the same time. [00:35:59]

So we were just... It was like an instant clique. We just did kind of everything together and then people started kind of, “Oh, well I’m actually working at this campus so I’m going to move, you know, way south of Portland.” “Oh, I’m working in Portland, I’m going to move over there.” And like for better or worse, that area has terrible traffic. Like people say Providence has terrible traffic. Providence has really bad traffic because no one ever thought (inaudible at 00:36:19) would be here. Like you look at the north end... Or like (inaudible at 00:36:25) is supposed to be the scenic thing that you did on the weekends. It wasn’t supposed to be a major, like, thousands of people take this every day. The surrounding areas, essentially you’ve got... In the south of Portland, you’ve got one of the largest one story factory in the world with hundreds, ten thousand people commuting there every day. In Portland, you’ve got all the people going to the city for city jobs, financial people and all that and then in [], you’ve got sixty thousand people commuting into this tiny little suburb every day to go work at Google.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm. [00:36:57]

CLIENT: That’s not including the people who work at the industries around that support Google, all the contingent staff, the people, the catering companies etc. So the thirteen miles from [] would take two and a half hours. You know? If you have 8:30 dinner reservations, you better leave at five and cross your fingers. You better stop drinking water at lunchtime in case you get stuck in traffic and you have to go to the bathroom. So it’s pretty bad. Essentially, your friends just sort of dispersed. And now it’s like you see each other at weddings and baby showers from time to time or if somebody... There was a couple that are from... You know, somebody occasionally, if they’re in town from the Fourth of July or something you can see them for, you know, dinner. But it’s not like it was, you know... It’s this inseparable crew of people that is no more. So yeah. So I guess that’s something that helps a place feel like really, really tight and like home. I guess that’s what I... Yeah. That’s kind of what I get from soccer. It’s a brotherhood in some respects. [00:38:01]

You get that closeness, that camaraderie of people who will, you know, they feel like... They’ve got your back. You can kind of do whatever. “Oh, what do you want to do? You want to get a piece of pizza, go watch a movie? Okay, you can do that. You want to, you know, hike? Let’s do that. Hey, I’m going racing this weekend. You want to do that? Yeah. Let’s go. You want to lift? Yeah, let’s do that. What do you think about this supplement? Oh, yeah. That’s good. That’s bad. I just read this book.” You know, you just get whatever. So, yeah. And I think that’s part of why I got back from Japan, I got back into sports. It’s almost like the kids who... This sounds really bad. Like the kids who got picked last, you know, because they didn’t have athletic ability. Those are the ones who end up playing. I was having fun. But they also took it very seriously and it’s not a game to be taken seriously. [00:39:03]

That’s one of the rules of the game is like have fun. And not in the sense that every game is like that but it’s totally not a competitive game like self-refereed, like no, nothing’s on the line for anybody. Like, “Take it easy guys.” And when people would be intense and almost get into fist fights about it, I was like, “I can’t do this.” It’s absurdly funny to me. So I had to, you know, when I came back from Japan, my team had disbanded. I’m going to play a sport now where it’s not just bitching all the time about a little flying disc. So I went back to soccer for that. But, yeah, I think that... And the difference is they’re two... I think the game of soccer, to be effective at it, there’s a lot of trust involved. You have to trust that there’s people to your left and right who are going to do their job. There’s not really... It’s not like football where you’ve got, you know, these positions and if you’re a... You know, if you’re a defensive guy, you’re (inaudible at 00:40:07) you don’t really talk to anybody on that position or whatever it may be. [00:40:11]

Rugby’s not that. It’s a less structured game. So, yeah, there’s positions and there’s rules and there’s different roles. But at any given time, depending on the way the ball bounces, you could be playing a variety of roles from somebody who’s got to be really quick and defend maybe on the outside to somebody who’s attacking way out of position, a guy that’s significantly smaller or bigger than you. You’ve got to expect... Let’s say I’m trying to attack a guy smaller than me. I’m not going to be faster than him. I’m going to have to have somebody to pass it to. I have to have faith that there’s going to be somebody, you know, there to catch the pass. And that... Plus is just a God damn hard game. I think that is what pulls people together which is good to have. You know?

THERAPIST: So it’s a community.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, it’s also... For whatever reason, it attracts similar types of people. We’ve all kind of got this twisted sense of humor. Immature is probably the right word. [00:41:07]

But it’s also good to have that too. People that, you know, are similar and you can kind of get along with. (PAUSE) Yeah. And it’s cool too to... I mean, it’s a cool thing to... Chicks dig it which always helps. (LAUGHTER) That was actually (inaudible at 00:41:31) I came back from Japan. I’m worried that I broke up. I was like, “I’ve got to do anything to like change what’s going on in my life.” I just broke up with her. I was like living at my friend’s couch. I was like, “Got to jumpstart this thing.” Like let’s just do it. So I did that. I took language lessons and I started taking improv. And like of those things, yes, I still retain a little bit of the language, in part because I spent a little bit of time in Japan and those classes that I took, improv... Rugby. So that’s the one. I guess that’s the winner from the three things I tried. [00:42:09]

But, yeah, it’s cool. It’s fun too. It’s like a fun game to play. And it’s nice too because you get to... I don’t know. Like you get to travel the world. I was in the Europe at the beginning of the year playing. They were talking about going down to South America next year, you know, to play. So you get to meet people all over the world that play the game. It’s pretty fun. It’s also a good group of guys too. You know, one of the guys I was playing with just got a sixteen million dollar grant to open up some neurological research lab. So it’s certainly not... They’re not people who are, you know, dudes off the street just playing soccer because it’s something to do. These are guys that are at Yale because they’re bright or smart or whatever. So it’s cool to also know that. Like it’s a good networking too. [00:43:01]

So... Yeah. (PAUSE) The... But, yeah, no. I think that’s part of what makes a place feel like home. Like it’s either a community or like a... You know, the stuff, I guess there’s stuff to keep you there. And not stuff in like the physical sense but stuff, you know, like friends or whatever.

THERAPIST: Well, a sense of belonging.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I was thinking... We’re going to need to stop in a moment but I was thinking that maybe one of the reasons you like sports so much is it helps you define what you’re looking for on like a lot of levels. I don’t know.

CLIENT: No. I think that’s probably true. I think there’s part of it that it’s... You know, you figure out what you want by experiencing what’s (inaudible at 00:43:51) What is it? Addition by subtraction, I guess.

THERAPIST: And what’s possible. I mean, that’s sort of almost the definition of exploring is learning about what’s possible. [00:43:59]

CLIENT: Yeah. I think you learn a lot about yourself, like what’s actually important. You know, like my patience... I didn’t have a lot of patience before I went to Japan and then it was like, “Hey, I’m in Japan. There’s twenty eight million people in my city. I don’t speak a God damn lick of this language. I can’t read anything. Okay. (LAUGHTER) Cool. Let’s just relax because there’s going to be stuff that happens and stuff’s going to get messed up.” You know? But, yeah. I think that’s also... You kind of... You figure out like what’s out of there but you also figure out more about yourself and what’s actually important. Like does it actually matter to be really high strung and wound up all the time? Probably not. (inaudible at 00:44:41) It gives you perspective on things like, “Hey, maybe it’s actually not that bad what’s going on in my life because I’m here and, you know, not some subsistence farmer in the backwoods of Japan.” So, I mean, it’s very different to say that versus seeing it firsthand. [00:45:01]

THERAPIST: I can imagine. We are going to need to stop for today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So I think I mentioned next week I’m away. But I have this time as a regular time if you’re interested in that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Let’s just do that.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: That makes sense for me.

THERAPIST: at the end of August I had already scheduled someone for this time so I’ll let you know for that week. We’ll do a different time.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: But this time works?

CLIENT: That works for me. Cool.

THERAPIST: So I’ll see you then in two weeks.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I’m away next week.

CLIENT: Alright. Let me just put that in my calendar.

THERAPIST: Okay. Great.

CLIENT: Cool.

THERAPIST: So I’ll see you in two weeks then.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Did you like Collapse?

THERAPIST: I actually didn’t get through the whole book.

CLIENT: I’ve been like... I figured it would be as good as Guns, Germs, and Steel but I couldn’t get into it. I made it through like the first twenty percent of it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I didn’t make it through very far. (LAUGHTER) Take care.

CLIENT: Yeah, take care.

THERAPIST: Bye.

CLIENT: Do you have a bathroom here?

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah. Just... There’s the key and if you just go make a left. It’s right there (inaudible at 00:45:59)

CLIENT: Alright. Thank you. I’ll drop this off at the.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Absolutely.

END TRANSCRIPT