TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in.

CLIENT: So... (LAUGHTER) This week I just have been taking care of stuff so I can leave. I've been looking for places for my mom. So it's a little stressful, I guess just because... Well, first of all, she's like, "Yeah, you have to do this before you leave because once you're gone, I won't be able to do it." I was just like, "Wait. Why?" (LAUGHTER) [00:01:03]

"Why can you not do this when you're..." She didn't answer back. She's a little stressed herself because she doesn't... I guess she feels guilty and doesn't know how much money she'll be able to make next year. So... Like, I guess throughout... Since the time she's moved in with me since the time in Ohio, I guess that's 2006, I've just been paying the rent. She's contributed some of the time when she had good jobs or just, you know, and I didn't... Yeah. I mean, like sometimes she's contributed a little bit. But in Ohio I was the one who paid most of the rent and then here as well. So... And the agents, they're like... They don't really like the idea of me even cosigning. (LAUGHTER) So when I try to explain to them my situation, they're a bit weirded out. [00:02:11]

I'm like, "I'm looking for a place for my mom. Only she's going to live there and, you know... But I'll help her pay the rent or, you know... She doesn't have as good a job as I do so I want to cosign." They're like, "Why are you cosigning? Why... The owner doesn't like it or whatever." So it's a bit disappointing to see places. Then speak to agents and then say, "Send us an application." They don't even send us an application because they don't like what they see, I guess. I don't know. (SIGH) So... But...

(PAUSE) [00:03:00]

CLIENT: I don't know. I just wish she would wake up a little and deal with stuff. Just... She just doesn't want to deal with things that bother her too much. Like I was just thinking as I was walking here that, you know, instead of watching all those soaps that she watches like (inaudible at 00:03:29) she could just like snap out of it and be like, "Maybe I'll clean the house or, you know, maybe I'll learn driving again so that it helps my daughter a little." (LAUGHTER) You know? It's just like... I mean, she can take care of... She can go by herself, travel by herself and take the bus and the train. She's good about that. But, you know, I still help her when she has to go to far off places. I mean, it could just be nice for me in the sense that like so I have to go to Union Station and, you know, I have to take a cab. You know? [00:04:07]

Wouldn't it be nice if she could drop me off? You know? Like the car is right there and it's not a stick shift. She could invest some of her time, you know, take some driving lessons and do that but, you know, no. (LAUGHTER) Like one thing I was thinking this morning was like (inaudible a 00:04:31) yet again. (LAUGHTER) I'm sure you're tired of hearing about him as I am tired of thinking about him. Just like I think his place really represented something to me, something a lot more just because like I've always lived in crappy houses, crappy apartments, just because my mom was never really into making a nice home because I guess she was so stressed with her whole marriage. [00:05:01]

So she never really invested in making the place look nice at all. Like I'm not exaggerating. (LAUGHTER) So until like this apartment and, I guess, David (ph) and I looked together for places and like he and I put a little bit of thought into making the place look nice and this is like the first place that... And it's not that nice now that my mom's taken over everything, it looks pretty bad. (LAUGHTER) Not so bad but, you know, like she... But still it's not as nice as (inaudible at 00:05:37). It just like, to me, in my head there's like this awesome thing that he's been able to make. Even before he and I started anything, you know, like when he moved to D.C. and he was just Chris's friend to me and nothing more, I was intrigued by the idea of this man has come here and he's hired agents and he's even willing to pay the fee and he's got this really big place for himself and then like Chris and I were helping him decorate it. [00:06:15]

I bought him like cushions and stuff. This was like a year and a half ago or two years ago and, yeah, we would visit him and he had this projector. It was a nice place and I thought what a nice responsible man he is. You know? And Chris couldn't do that. Like he... When he was in Rhode Island by himself, I visited him only twice but the last time I visited him was obviously under very bad circumstances. But he just hadn't done anything to the place. It was so cold. (LAUGHTER) And when I asked him, he was like, "Well, in my head, I'm waiting to make a home with you." [00:06:59]

So that made me feel bad but there was nothing on the walls. You know? He just... There was his bed and then, you know, his desk and then the kitchen. I cleaned the kitchen up for him and organized a little bit. But he invested not at all in this place. So I was just thinking that that's what Victor's (ph) place represented to me, you know, this beautiful place, this place that I had a welcome to. You know? And, yeah, I guess letting go of that was hard because, you know, I knew in my head obviously it's his place. I don't have any claim on it but it's just a nice refuge as well as he in his strong arms and all that. But...

THERAPIST: A refuge from what? [00:07:55]

CLIENT: From the madness that's my place. (LAUGHTER) My goodness. It's like terrible. If I think, it I dwell on it too much, it's like... My mom's stuff is everywhere. It's worse now because Chris's dumped his stuff as well because his place doesn't free up until end of August. So... (SIGH) It's a mess. (LAUGHTER) And I just... I mean, I just hate the way that she... Her things just bother me a lot, like a lot. (LAUGHTER) Like she has this penchant for yard sales and she'll just like... It's like honey and a bee. She will always notice yard sale posters and always go and get crap, you know, like and then bring it home. (LAUGHTER) It just... And this is after I have taken her to designer showrooms and bought her really expensive clothes. They're just like somewhere in the bottom of her closet. [000:09:03]

She'll get those five dollar discards of people. (LAUGHTER) It's like she will, you know... She insists on looking bad. I mean, I bought her nice jackets and she will only wear that one horrible jacket that we purchased the first year or second year we came to the US. So... And then her books and then her... I just feel that she puts very little thought into living and that like living with her is not fun. You know? It's stressful and I cannot negotiate around those things. I cannot take full control because I feel that, you know, if I do then I'm invading her space too much or she will, you know, lean even more on me or... Yeah. [00:10:07]

I mean, puttering about her room or whatever around her stuff metaphorically and literally makes her who she is and taking that away might make her even more of a backboneless creature. I don't know. So I just let her do her things. That's why I'm like maybe she can just do her things in her own place. I'll just take away... It'll just take away that clutter from my head so I can have a little bit of peace. (LAUGHTER) But... (PAUSE) Yeah that's, that was the thing. Just going to his place was nice and thinking of his place was nice and like the windows and the trees outside. So... [00:11:03]

It wasn't mine. I know it wasn't mine. I never thought of it as my own at all. But it was a nice place to go to and think about. (LAUGHTER) It was like those, you know, those celebrities now when they talk about your happy place. So... Not that I'm thinking of it as my happy place. Now it's a really sad place because I was pushed out of there very forcefully. (LAUGHTER) So, yeah, I don't really have. I guess I think... Yeah, this is true. This is so true. Even when I was a child I would think of other people's places and happy places. To me, they weren't really like mountain tops or beaches. [00:12:05]

I didn't have a concept of a beach because I lived in Nepal and there are no beach, no ocean there. But it was really the homes of more affluent people that I visited and by affluent, I don't mean they had to have expensive stuff. It's just the way that they lived peacefully and (inaudible at 00:12:35) that made me happy and one time I think I was in this... I visited my mom at her school when she was teaching and there was just this little alcove outside this classroom. [00:13:01]

Like it was a canopy of trees and there was this nice little table there and chairs. (LAUGHTER) I think I sat there and pretended I was having a tea party or something. I must have been, I don't know, six or seven. And the principal found me there and scolded me and scolded my mom because I was there, you know, not in my own school or, you know, like not on (inaudible at 00:13:27). So... But I remember feeling really happy about, you know, sitting there pretending that that was my place and the shade and the little garden table was mine to play with. So... (LAUGHTER) I always I guess envied other people's nice little home environments. So...

THERAPIST: As compared to yours? [00:13:53]

CLIENT: Yeah. (LAUGHTER) But...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Did your parents fight often?

CLIENT: Well, when my dad used, when my dad was around, yeah, I guess. They'd fight as in like... I don't remember lots and lots of verbal arguments or anything. It was just a lot of tension because my dad would come back and he would be nice and he would just go away and there would be all these new affairs and whatnot. So... And my mom would scream at me and I would scream at her. I don't really... No, I take that back. He yelled a lot. He was mad... He definitely like was mad at me and he would beat me and stuff. So that of course was there. Yeah. I'm sure my parents fought. (LAUGHTER) [00:14:59]

THERAPIST: How did he beat you?

CLIENT: Well, he just... He was a boxer when he was in college. I didn't even make the connection. I'm only making the connection when I'm telling you. Like, yeah, he would beat me and I would bleed and he was like, "Yeah." Because he was a boxer. Like, "Oh yeah. So that make sense." He had these really, really, really thick hands. So, just, slapped and whatnot.

THERAPIST: Would he punch you?

CLIENT: No. I don't... Punched... Just lot of like... He would hold me by my hair and pull my hair and just like... I don't know. (LAUGHTER) My ears would bleed, I think. I don't know why. So... Whatever. But...

THERAPIST: Where would your mom be?

CLIENT: Sometimes she would try to intercept, you know, like stop him. But she wasn't as powerful as he was. So...

(PAUSE) [00:16:00]

CLIENT: But I mean, like it's... I guess it's part of childhood. Children get beaten up. So...

THERAPIST: Is it more... Not here as much.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: In Nepal is it more common?

CLIENT: In school, yeah. In school it's more common. But that's... I mean to say, that's what I find the most different here. Here you have absolutely no... You cannot touch. You can't even touch your students. But there, yeah, like principals would really, really beat a student. So... Yeah. I didn't get beaten by teachers but my dad, yeah. So... (PAUSE) I mean, I guess I did stuff that made him mad. [00:17:01]

I mean, that's what scares me about Victor. I guess I cannot... I mean, this question that keeps bugging, "Why did I act, you know, the way that he's saying I acted?" I don't know. I... I don't know. Maybe it's because his anger is like my dad's anger and I just don't know how to deal with it except to be like really, really afraid and be like, "Don't go. Don't abandon me." (PAUSE) I mean, I feel like she just put herself through this needlessly. It could have just... She could have just made a decision, "No. You're not coming back into our lives," and then just stuck to it and we could have had peaceful lives. [00:18:05]

It might not have been... It still would have missed a father but it would have been so much better than, "Now he's here. Now he's leaving again." All those ups and downs made it worse. So... (PAUSE) I guess, you know, I mean, that's why I feel... I mean, I do try to hold back when I see friends in their nice places just because I know that I'll get too attached or something or... [00:19:07]

I mean, maybe I try to find fault as well in other people. I don't know. I definitely don't have... I mean, I don't have a lot of friends and I'm beginning to feel like it must have something to do with my attitude. (LAUGHTER) I must not come across as a very nice person. So...

THERAPIST: How so? How do you feel like you come across as a not nice person?

CLIENT: I don't know. I feel like I'm judgmental. I feel superior or inferior, either superior or inferior. Those are the two extremes. I cannot relate to people as equals. [00:20:01]

I don't know. I mean, maybe... Maybe I don't have friends because of all of my life situations. You know? I just kept moving when I was a child and then in college I had a lot of friends. They were all the church people but then my parents split up and that had something to do with the church or they were involved. So I lost all of those friends and then in Ohio I didn't really have time to make friends and then at MSU, you know, everyone pretty much hated me in my program and I didn't have contact with outside people. So... [00:20:53]

THERAPIST: Why did they hate you?

CLIENT: I don't know. I feel like there was a lot of just jealousy and competition. Plus, from my side, I was just... I didn't really get to know them. I didn't really invest in getting to know them. I don't know why. (PAUSE) So... I asked Graham (ph) if I could stay with him. I had asked him earlier and he said, "Yes. Absolutely." (LAUGHTER) But that was before things got bad. So, I mean, he said no. I sent him an e-mail asking. I sent him like three e-mails. He didn't respond and then... This was about in general stuff and I was like, "Can I stay with you the Fourth of July because my flight is on the fifth from Ohio?" And he was like, "You'll have to find some other arrangement." (LAUGHTER) So I just was like, "Thank you for letting me know and just so you know, anytime you're in D.C. and you need a place to stay, you're welcome in my new place." (LAUGHTER) [00:22:05]

It's just like you shouldn't sleep with your friends because this is what happens. (LAUGHTER) You lose your... You destroy a friendship. But, I mean, he has a nice place and I absolutely don't have any attachment to it because I'm not very affectionate towards him anyways. And he doesn't really keep it that clean. It's just that he was a lot of money and the place just looks nice and he's the first person to live in it after it's renovated. So... (LAUGHTER) But I just like feel like I'm supposed to feel responsible that I pushed him away or I acted in a weird way that I lost this relationship. Now, here I am and I don't have any place to stay in Ohio anymore when I need it. You know? [00:23:07]

I'm trying not to think too much about it because this really upset me because I'm like, I'll think, "You know, I'll try to be there for people. I work so hard to find Chris a sublet or I'm doing all this for him. I doing all this for my mom. But when I need a place to crash so that, you know, my journey doesn't start at seven in the morning or 6:30 in the morning and goes on for two more days until I get to Istanbul. (LAUGHTER) And no one can accommodate me. And I'm the one... I'm to blame for it. So...

THERAPIST: Because?

CLIENT: Because I was nasty with Graham. So... (SIGH)

(PAUSE) [00:24:00]

THERAPIST: It seems like you're very afraid that you push people away.

CLIENT: Yeah. I... Yeah. I mean, I'm really... I'm not... I'm very, very awkward socially. I don't know the right thing to say and I'm really afraid of... There's all these complexes like I didn't grow up in this country so half, most of the things you're talking about, I'm not going to get. You know? (LAUGHTER) But... So what else do I have to bring to the table? I don't really think much because I don't watch TV that much and, you know, my interests are so peculiar. I like literature and, you know, a little bit of cooking and... Yeah. What can I contribute to... I mean, not in every scenario. I can't expect to contribute to every single scenario. [00:25:03]

But it's like... I don't know. (PAUSE) Or just not even contributing. Just being nice. I don't know if I have it in me to be nice. (LAUGHTER) I'm afraid I'm just not nice.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Yeah. I'm not sure what "not nice" means.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What does it mean?

CLIENT: Being bitchy? I don't know. (LAUGHTER) I don't know what that means. Well, I guess just being judgmental and... When you don't like someone, you don't really... I don't know why I don't like people, some people.

(PAUSE) [00:26:00]

CLIENT: And that's what I feel like people like Victor and Graham pick up and then they push me away. (LAUGHTER) Like I focus on the negative too much maybe instead of focusing on the positive. (PAUSE) I don't know. A while ago, like when I was in ninth grade, I made friends with... I just moved to Istanbul in eighth grade and I didn't really have that many friends because it was a new school for me and I just acted really superior with everyone just because I had already studied all that they were studying like in fifth standard so I was pretty bored most of the time. But in ninth grade, I managed to make friends with these girls that I thought were really fabulous, that they were modern, they spoke in English and they had boyfriends and they were... They respected their parents but they were a little classier than these other girls who were really traditional and they just hung out together and didn't have boyfriends and looked and dressed a little bit more conservatively, you know? So, I mean, I loved these girls. I was so happy to able to like hang with them and my hanging out time was so limited because my dad never allowed me to step out of the house. I always had to sneak out. (LAUGHTER) Always. And we didn't hang out that often. Like maybe we hung out like five times during that year. But those were fabulous times for me just because I did not get to interact with children my age at all. You know? [00:28:03]

But something happened and they fell out with me and they treated me like shit. Like they just completely cut me off and I would just go up to them and be like, "What did I do? What did I do?" And they just didn't tell me. I was devastated. I made so many petitions to every single one of them trying to crack them and being like, "Why? What's going on. Let me back into your group." I think one of them, like the more matronly one was like, "Well, you know, you're cold. You're weird. Like when we're all walking together, you'll just start walking separately as if you're better than us or something." I don't remember all that she said but I think that was one thing. [00:28:59]

They never really sat down and explained to me, "Look. You did this or you did that." But that's really like I'm sorry afraid. I feel like I don't have luck making friends and I somehow destroy my friendships with women a lot and then with men now that I sleep with them... (LAUGHTER) So... I just feel really, really afraid that I'm just not... Something in me is really messed up or whatever that's making me not be nice to people.

THERAPIST: Do you feel like the nice things that people have, you could never create for yourself?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Well, it seems like in order to have nice things, it seems like you need to be... You want to be a part of other people's nice things. But it doesn't seem like you could create a nice life for yourself. [00:30:09]

CLIENT: Yeah. Maybe...

THERAPIST: You could join someone else's nice life maybe.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right because that's what I feel with Chris because... That's why I feel maybe he's right for me because he... You know, like Victor said, "He's right for you because..." And he shoves things under the carpet and he's like, "Okay, so you've had a messed up life. Big deal. People have messed up lives. Shove it aside and let's do something useful with the rest of your life. You know? Let's join a movement. Let's contribute our talents to, you know, to politics. You know? Be active. Advocate on other people's behalf." That seems to me to make sense because, you know, people with emotional baggages like me... [00:31:07]

You know, if you have the time and resources, great. Invest in unraveling yourself and straightening yourself out or just, you know, forget everything and go ahead. Join a movement and make something of your life. So I don't know if that is similar. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: No. Actually I wasn't thinking about that although it's interesting. I meant like just a nice life, nice things, like the way you see Victor's life, like nice things and something pretty, serene maybe.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Something that people would want.

CLIENT: I don't know how to create that. (LAUGHTER) I don't know. Is it... Can you buy it from stores? I mean, I'd buy it. But I don't think I can be... I don't think I have it in me to be serene. You know? (LAUGHTER) [00:32:03]

I'm more like intense. It's so weird you're saying that because that's what I was thinking as I was walking up, not that but I was thinking, you know, my mom says I'm destructive. But she is also destructive and she doesn't see it in the sense that... So we've been kind of seamstresses. Not seamstresses but lately... We used to have this sewing machine and we'd, when she's make my clothes for me when I was little. And she was good then but now it's like her skills have deteriorated or whatever and she makes these horrible clothes (LAUGHTER) for herself out of horrible materials. But then she'll also do this thing where she'll take something nice and undo and make something totally horrible out of it. I don't know if that's something similar. [00:32:59]

But I watch her do it and just really, really scares me that, you know... (PAUSE) Can you explain a bit more about that? (LAUGHTER) I don't know if I'm understanding.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Although that's interesting that you... It seems like inside your home...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...your mother and what she represents... It's messy. It's dirty. It's not a place you want to be most of the time and it's not a place you feel anyone else could want. And then there's Victor and what he represents, a pretty life, beautiful space, beautiful scenery.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And it seems like it feels so far away from you...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...and anything you could possibly have.

CLIENT: Yeah. I do something similar as my mom. I just... I mean, my room isn't that messy but it could be a lot better. It could be a lot nicer. [00:34:05]

But I just kind of shut it all out and then just watch TV on my computer and when I'm trying to work... I just realize this the other day. There's so much clutter on my desk. There's, you know, this pile, you know, partition stories, that pile, novels that need to be read, the other pile, stuff... I mean, when I'm writing, my eyes are going this way and that and I'm like, "This is (inaudible sst 00:34:31) How can I concentrate?" (LAUGHTER) There's so much distraction and just... (PAUSE) I don't know. I mean, maybe others can function through that. Yeah. I don't think I can create anything like that, like Victor. That's his strength, I guess. [00:35:01]

That's what he meant when he said I cannot be as mature as him or he doesn't see me as having the same maturity level as him and independence. I just feel so encumbered with my mom and like my own awkwardness and... (PAUSE) I feel like sometimes, some of the time I'm so desperate for people to like me that I just say the wrong thing or come across as too pushy. So... (LAUGHTER) I cannot just like chill and just realize that people just, you know, like... It doesn't take much for people to like each other. [00:35:59]

All you have to do is smile and, you know, laugh at something and that's it. You don't have to like offer them a ride to the airport or, you know, like make them owe you. (LAUGHTER) No one likes that. No matter how many madeleines (ph) I bake for Victor, he's not going to love me. you know? He is going to throw away my food because that's not what he wants. He wants this bright breezy cheerful person, you know, in accordance with the kind of place he has. So... (SIGH) I'm dark and messy and full of complications and I might have a bowl of very good food in my hands but it's not good enough. You know? The person holding the bowl is just not good, just not right. So... [00:37:09]

Me and my bowl of food, we'll be thrown away. You know? So it's... In a way it's very, very typical.

THERAPIST: Typical?

CLIENT: Well, yeah, like that's kind of what I feel like happens to a lot of my friendships. Not a lot. I don't have a lot of friends. But I just feel like metaphorically that, you know... I fear that's what's going to happen. People will just toss me out of their home. You know?

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: You feel like there's something ugly inside of you.

CLIENT: I guess. I mean... (PAUSE) Yeah.

THERAPIST: Distasteful. at the least very messy.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't really know how to make it pretty. [00:38:07]

THERAPIST: That's a big part of the problem. You're feeling that you couldn't.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or not even that you couldn't but there aren't pretty things inside of you.

CLIENT: Yeah and that's the reason I have failed in my work because maybe I'm not generous with myself. I mean, I see the good in people but maybe it's just like cerebrally I see it but not... I don't feel it and I don't like appreciate it. So... I know I don't like me. I mean, that's kind of what it is. [00:39:03]

I don't like myself. Then I still jump into relationships saying, "I don't like me but do you like me? You know, can you work with this? If you can, great. Then I'll find reasons to live with myself. But I'm not able to love myself but maybe you can." You know? And Chris has been so far. You know? So...

THERAPIST: But you feel that there's something missing.

CLIENT: With him?

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: Well, yeah, there's the whole physical thing and thinking of him as just a brother and yet our friendship is still there. It's withstood all these stupid things. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: And also you've always wanted a brother. You created a brother in your mind.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: We were talking about that last time.

CLIENT: Yeah. (PAUSE) Yeah. [00:39:59]

I mean, he's not the ideal brother just because... I don't know. He doesn't have to be but... And I can't make him my brother completely because I know he thinks of me... He thinks of himself as my boyfriend. So I can't dishonor that all the time or consciously. (PAUSE) Yeah. I don't know why I'm so ugly to myself or even (inaudible at 00:40:45) I don't know. Like is it the things I've done or what? Is it just like my perception of myself or... I don't know. [00:41:05]

THERAPIST: You've had... This is sort of a strange way to put it. But you've had multiple opportunities throughout your childhood to feel badly.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think you very much internalized your mother saying that you weren't wanted. Not only were you not wanted but you ruined her life.

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Well, she still says it. I don't think she'll stop saying it. (LAUGHTER) As she gets older it'll just keep on coming.

THERAPIST: And you very deeply internalized that.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, how could you not. In some ways, how can you not?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I do distance myself. I guess that's what Victor was trying to tell me was that... He was taking the more scientific route that, you know, we're so much bigger than all this, than our relationships with our parents. [00:42:05]

We're, you know, part of this miracle and don't you feel good thinking of that way? (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: It sounds like he has a lot of problems of his own.

CLIENT: He does?

THERAPIST: You don't think so?

CLIENT: Sadly, I'm so in love with him that I don't see the problems. I mean, I do see it. I think it's immature of him to be polygamous at his age. Is that what you mean?

THERAPIST: Sure and this dynamic that he's really investing in and bringing you in and pushing you out and bringing you in and pushing you out. I don't know what he's replaying from his own childhood but... (LAUGHTER) ...he's certainly not over it. He's certainly in it.

CLIENT: Yeah. What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Well, he's doing something that he's not, you know, that I imagine... I don't like to psychoanalyze people I've never met.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:43:07]

THERAPIST: But clearly there's something he's struggling with and that he's doing that, you know, there's no sense of it on a logical level so there's something inside that he's struggling with.

CLIENT: Well, maybe it's the guilt that I'm Chris's girlfriend and... I mean, he said it himself. He's like, when he's not confused, he wants me to live with him and that we'll have two cats and, you know, all that. But he's confused and what he's confused about he said he does not like the negative streak in me. He says he doesn't' want to be in a relationship in which, yeah, he has to do a lot of work. He said he's been hurt before actually by the same person who also slept with Chris first and then slept with him. So I'm like following in her footsteps. [00:44:05]

But, yeah, she... She slept with him and then moved with Ohio and he went to visit her and thought that they were boyfriend and girlfriend and they had a night together and then the next morning, she's like, "Sorry. It didn't mean anything. I've got into this pattern of sleeping with, using people for sex." So he was a little hurt and then he went back to Charleston (ph) and then kept calling her like a lot, like twenty times in one night. It turns out that same moment she was being raped and when he found out he was devastated because he thought his girlfriend was raped. But then to her, you know, she wasn't his girlfriend. She was just kind of using him. So I guess he felt really, really used and he was these (inaudible at 00:45:03). [00:45:05]

He has a very low opinion of women, I think. He said it on multiple occasions. "I don't expect anything else from women." So I can't really break down his defenses. I mean, I failed. That's why this... Part of the reason I kept degrading myself and going over to his place uninvited because I just thought, you know... Because, you know, he said, "No one has ever cared for me this much." So I thought, "Hey, he likes it." (LAUGHTER) But it just... I can't really rescue him anymore.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:45:43)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So let me just double check the schedule for tomorrow. I think we said...

CLIENT: Nine.

THERAPIST: Did we say nine?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. I...

(PAUSE) [00:46:00]

THERAPIST: For some reason my schedule was (inaudible at 00:46:05) Okay. So yep. Got it. Nine.

CLIENT: Yeah. So next week is 10:10 on Monday.

THERAPIST: Monday and then Tuesday at 10?

CLIENT: 10:45

THERAPIST: Oh 10:45. You're right. And then you're off to Nepal for a month. Right?

CLIENT: What should we do? Like should we Skype or... (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Would you like to do that?

CLIENT: Well, it might be strange in the sense that we're nine and a half hours ahead over there. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: So just logistically.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Well, let's just... So then it would be... Well, something in the evening for you...

CLIENT: Oh yeah. That's true.

THERAPIST: ...would be the morning. So that would probably be fine actually.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So let's talk about that next time. I'd be happy to do that.

CLIENT: Oh okay.

THERAPIST: I'm not very good with Skype but... [00:46:59]

CLIENT: Yeah but we can do like once a week or once two weeks or something because, you know, the connection might not be that good. But we can try it one time and see if it works.

THERAPIST: See if it works. Okay. Sounds good. So I'll see you tomorrow.

CLIENT: Okay. Thank you very much.

THERAPIST: Bye bye. (PAUSE) Bye.

END TRANSCRIPT