TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: Hi.

THERAPIST: Welcome back.

CLIENT: Thanks. (chuckles) It's okay to be back. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah. It's more fun there. I didn't want to come back. (chuckles) But here I am. (chuckles) I can't remember the last time we spoke or what we said. (chuckles) But it feels like it's been a lot longer because [I feel like a] (ph) different place. So I guess physically also because I'm moving.

THERAPIST: Mmmm-hmmm.

CLIENT: I'm moving out of Hamden. (pause) But I've kind of forgotten how this works. (chuckles) Like am I supposed to talk or -

THERAPIST: It sounds like it feels new all over again. It feels like it's new all over again.

[00:01:04]

CLIENT: Yeah, huh. Well, I mean, I think it's a good thing. Yeah, I mean (pause) It's I'm trying to I feel differently about a lot of things, I guess. I've just kind of lost my sense of being here which I really actually like because that gives me a chance to start again, to start fresh and feel really differently about myself. Well, maybe not myself, but like act differently. So, let's see. I'm back. I have almost moved out of Hamden. I'm in Arlington now. I'm not really sure how long I'm going to be there.

[00:01:57]

I did sign a one-year lease and I did, I guess I have started work full-time, but I actually just realized last night that I'm not going to do that. (chuckles) It's pretty bad. I just feel like my passion is just not going to get done if I work full-time. So I'm just figuring out my finances because my mom is living in a different apartment as well. So her rent plus my rent adds up to $2,000. [The rent of Chris's] (ph) helps me pay half of my mom's rent, then it comes around $1500 or $1450 or something, and if I get a part-time job, that will give me like $1500 a month.

[00:02:56]

So that would be cutting it pretty close, but I'll just have to do that, which means that I won't be able to do therapy (chuckles) because then I'll only have like 50 bucks left for, you know, food. I think I can try and do that instead of going back full-time, just because (pause) Yeah, I don't know. I feel like if I don't do this now, it will just never get done. Plus, you know, I'm starting school.

THERAPIST: For?

CLIENT: (chuckles) Another degree.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: It will just give me deadlines and stuff because after MSU, I was just left with a very bad kind of understanding of writing and of what I could do with it. It was just not enough, that one-year program was just not enough and it prepared me -

[00:03:58]

It completely changed my like it made me think that success in terms of success, it made me think that success was oh, just a few months away which is a very bad way of thinking long-term about [real art] (ph) and stuff. It just made me a very bitter person, I think. (chuckles) I mean, I'm not blaming the program. I'm just saying I did not learn the right lessons. And the people at this school seem a lot more friendlier and laid back. They measure success by just the quality of the time you're having while you work. (chuckles) I think that's more important.

[00:04:59]

I don't know. It's like when I was in Nepal, I just felt very differently about everything. It was hard because I was there with Chris (ph). I was living in his parents' house and they actually, both of them, his parents, mom and dad, took me aside and asked me about marriage. Just point-blank, "When are you guys going to -" because we've been dating for seven years and they're like "Okay, now, now, now." Now he has a job so they're like "Okay, so now what's the hurdle?" I kind of lied and said "Well, Chris (ph) is not sure." At that time, he wasn't sure and I said "He's interested in someone else." Well, I didn't actually say it that way. I said "He might prefer someone else, not me, because I'm not as spiritual [or religious] (ph) and his mom was like "No, you're perfect. I'm not going to accept anyone else now." She's like this bully, so I was very unhappy for a few days because Chris (ph) wasn't there and I was just with them.

[00:06:01]

It was just me with his parents and they were just kind of building you know, praising him so much and talking about how beloved he is and all, and I was just so sick of it. (chuckles) I was just like, what is this thing that Nepalese parents have, this need to just really praise the male child all the time? And his mom is just such a bully, like she micro-manages everything. I came out of the shower wearing a shirt for just like I wasn't even going to go out and I was just wearing it for a little bit. I might've changed into something else. She was like "Your (inaudible at 00:06:44) is sticking out. Why are you wearing this? It's so short" blah blah blah. And she completely controls my schedule. "Now is the time to eat, come on" and she's yelling all that and she's shouting at her husband.

[00:06:57]

I was just like so frustrated for those few days. I was just like, this is not going to work. Our personalities are very different and this and that. But then, you know, she was nice and we traveled and when I got back, she was nice nicer, I guess. And I was just thinking, you know, like that is what I want to do. I want to travel and meet people and eat and just talk, talk to new and interesting people. It just broadens your mind. It's so healing and it also keeps you alert and alive and interesting. I just hate my biggest fear is that I'll be staid and boring and not have interesting thoughts and not be interested in the larger world around me.

[00:07:59]

I feel like with a full-time job, that's what I will become. Just sitting behind a desk all day or just even being on the web is not the same thing as actually, you know, traveling in Nepal or talking to the rickshaw drivers or the people who have roadside stalls. That's kind of the work that Chris (ph) does, or has done a little bit, and I'm just with him when he does it and I feel like I'm better at it than him. You know, like I'm really good at interviewing people for him and really good at establishing relationships with them, and I'm happiest when I do that. I mean, it's very hard, you know. It's very hot, it's dirty, but you just get used to that.

[00:8:57]

I feel I can do that more like I can adjust with the shoddiness of the environment and rather than adjusting to the staidness of Cheshire, you know? (chuckles) I feel like maybe the time to make a decision about what I like and what I should do because I feel like mostly I'm unhappy because of not being able to do what I want to do and what makes me happy and where my talents are most used.

THERAPIST: I think you're unhappy because there's something that feels really wrong on the inside.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I don't that these things are ultimately going to make you happy.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: They may make you happy if other things happen.

CLIENT: Yeah.

[00:09:59]

THERAPIST: But I don't want to since you've come here to seek my professional opinion, that I don't know how these things that you feel that really make you feel terrible about yourself and these fantasies you have about how you could get better are going to change without some sort of intervention.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I would hate to see you sort of just run away in the hopes that something else will help.

CLIENT: It's true. (chuckles) Yeah, that's true. (pause) Yeah, I definitely see what you're saying. I feel like I mean, yeah, what you said about something on the inside that is wrong. I know what you're saying because even when I was in Nepal, I did have those dark moments.

[00:10:57]

All it took was for Chris's (ph) mom to act crabby for a day and be a little harsh for me to feel terrible again. (chuckles) Or for me to see how much Chris (ph) is beloved. Again, I'm doing the same thing I always do when comparing and feeling bad that I cannot measure up and all. I know there's something on the inside that's wrong, but I also feel like if I'm productive, I feel a lot better about myself.

THERAPIST: Because it's compensating. It's not actually addressing, it's compensating.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I would say only momentarily compensating for something that feels very wrong on the inside.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, you've tried before to sort of do things to feel differently about yourself, but they're very short-lasting.

[00:11:54]

CLIENT: Yeah. You're probably right. (chuckles) Like what have I done that has only been temporary?

THERAPIST: Well, like you know sort of getting sort of seeking out outside approval, affiliating with people who have these beautiful lives [so you can sort of be part of] (ph) that beautiful life rather than feeling that what's beautiful is inside.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That they're sort of solutions to things that really end up in the end making you feel quite empty.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's true. I don't know like what the fix for that what the permanent long-term fix for that would be.

THERAPIST: Well, I don't know what all of the fixes could be, but this could be I don't usually like to think of it as a fix, but this could be one way to really address what feels very wrong inside.

CLIENT: Yeah. This as in -

THERAPIST: Therapy.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, that's what we talk about.

CLIENT: Yeah.

[00:12:56]

THERAPIST: And that's what we work on. And for you especially, it seems like there are these ways and in a sense, they're almost magical the way you describe them.

CLIENT: (chuckles)

THERAPIST: You'll do this and you'll feel better. You'll do this, you'll get with this person and you'll feel better and things will be great.

CLIENT: (chuckles) Yeah.

THERAPIST: And they are very understandable wishes. I'd like to help you get to those places, or at least partially get to those places, in ways that are more realistic.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like what would be unrealistic? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Well, you know, that you would sort of get some sort of accolades that would change the way you feel about yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Accolades are not going to change the way you feel about yourself. They're just not.

CLIENT: Hmmm. (pause) So like quitting my job is not like a is that like a quick fix, you think?

[00:14:01]

THERAPIST: I hadn't really thought about it in term of that, but if you need other things in your life like food and therapy and so forth, that might not be such a good idea right now.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And even getting another degree, I don't know.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I understand what you're saying. It creates some structure, but that's part of the problem in the sense that you're trying to find some inner desire, inner motivation to pursue your dreams, so it's also kind of an external solution that I imagine costs money.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) So I guess I mean, not as much [as a private school] (ph).

THERAPIST: Well, again, I know nothing about your field -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: so I don't want to presume, but it does also make me think about wanting to continue to be a student.

[00:15:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Rather than someone who has sort of graduated and needing to create something for themselves.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, like, see the thing is that I feel like I'm really at a crossroads at the moment. The same crossroads that I've always been at, maybe. (chuckles) Is it a beautiful house or a beautiful book? Really I see it as either/or in the sense that right now, I could have a full-time job and, you know, save up money. And I wouldn't be saving up that much, maybe like a few thousand dollars a year, and it would slowly add up to where I could buy a house. Or I could quit my job and take the time it needs to work on my project.

[00:16:02]

I mean, I don't know. When I was in Nepal, this agent contacted me because I attended one of her workshops. In the workshop, we all had to show the first part of our project and a proposal and she could've helped us with that. So I guess she probably just contacted maybe everyone or maybe only those people whose proposal pages she found were interesting. So, I mean, I'm not saying this is a big deal and like I should just completely change all my life based on this one e-mail or contact or whatever.

[00:16:55]

But I do feel that I mean, I think this means that I just should give it as much of my time as I can and, you know, finish the project and then see what happens and if nothing, then I can go back to a full-time job. Not that it would just be waiting for me. (chuckles) But you know, like I could do that a little later, you know? It's not about wanting to feel better about myself. I know I will still continue to be a bit of a mess, the same mess that I am, but this is just something I've wanted to do for almost 10 years now. So I should maybe now is the time because I have some savings and I can probably scrounge around for part-time jobs.

[00:18:02]

I just feel like if I work full-time I just because you need like, you need those empty hours. You need to cogitate and think about the material and with a full-time job, you don't get that time because you only get bits and snippets, and you can probably just work during that time. I don't know. (chuckles) It's a big decision. It's a lot of money to give up, but I don't know. I just feel I want to be on vacation. (chuckles) It's probably a very irresponsible thing to want. (chuckles) (pause)

[00:19:02]

I don't know. (long pause) I mean, just because you feel small about yourself and you seek out people who are great and interesting I mean, I know that that is kind of a tendency when you're feeling low. But then that doesn't mean that you should stop hanging out with those people, right? (chuckles) That you should stop associating with Chris (ph) like that's what I thought. Like I thought he's just too good or he's just too ambitious. He's just achieved too much, so I will always look very shabby next to him.

[00:20:02]

So one solution is just not to stand next to him. You know, not to be in the position where I can be compared to him. But then I don't even find lowly people attractive. (chuckles) You know, like lowly in a sense, like lowly like me. I don't even I wouldn't even find anyone in my program, say for example, attractive because it would just be like "What are you doing with your life? You know, you're this old and you've not completed a PhD or you don't have an interesting job." Like me. (chuckles) (pause) I don't know if I can be with someone who is my equal. Like I wouldn't even know who my equal would be, you know? (pause)

[00:21:11]

I mean, like a lot of stuff that, you know, I find lacking in myself I feel like it's not just because of some psychological issue. It's also just the way that I was brought up. I feel I was brought up with nothing and not just like I don't mean money. I mean, money is immaterial. It's the culture that you're brought up with, the people. I feel like there was just no one there when I was growing up. It was just my mom and how much could she have compensated for the lack of a father or a grandmother, a grandfather, aunts, uncles, cousins, you know? She couldn't have compensated for all of those. So that's the kind of lack that I feel.

[00:22:03]

Even in my work, I feel that that's the lack because generally most people are you know, they grow up in a family and grandmas tell them stories. Then later on they find themselves reflecting on those, or they just feel like they lived a whole like a life that feels very full, you know, because there are all these people who can share your life, all these elements of culture that you can reflect on or, you know, feel connected with. I just feel disconnected from a lot of this stuff, so I can either feel bad about it or I can borrow from other people.

[00:23:04]

Like I can borrow someone else's family or I could try to create my own kind of patchwork of inherited culture. Just like make it up (pause) by reading and by learning things. So I feel like going to Nepal and talking to people there makes me feel like I'm part of this, you know? Why not? I speak the language. I look like them, you know. I may not live with them the whole year, but I could share their concerns. I could this is my culture, you know. I could inherit it. (chuckles) You know, who is going to stop me from laying claim to it, you know?

[00:23:58]

I was actually telling my mom this. That, you know, how can I succeed because I just have not been brought up with stories. I was brought up with silence, it feels like. You know, there's like crickets. Not, you know, actual crickets. (chuckles) But, you know, when it comes to like stories or like an abundance of food or aunts walking about cooking and all that. There was none of that. You know, there was just me and her.

THERAPIST: Did she ever read you stories?

CLIENT: My uncle did, like her brother. He had bought me a lot of books right before he came to the US. Yeah, and like she would record like I would just make up stories. I would read some story, and then she would record my voice as I was narrating the story, and then I'd sort of forget to make up my own version of the story.

[00:25:00]

There are those moments, but there was definitely a big lack of people who came to visit us. And even now, like I don't communicate at all with my dad's side of the family. I was there in Bhutan most of the time because that's where Chris (ph) is at and I just felt a little a sudden moment where I realized that all of my dad's side of the family is in Bhutan, and what if I just ran into someone, you know, just randomly, would they recognize me? Probably not. But yeah, so they're not there, and my mom's side of the family is not there either. So I just have absolutely no family right now, and that's always been the case. (chuckles) I wish I could think of a different (inaudible at 00:25:53). That's probably the only solution.

[00:25:57]

One solution is to think that they are there. You know, what I know about them I could just make do with that, and then just not worry so much that they don't call or I don't ever see them. (chuckles) That's okay. (chuckles) I can see strangers and meet new people and make new friends. (pause) But, I mean, I know that I function from thinking in terms of lack and maybe the solution is to think in terms of I'm not going to say plenty but, you know, not lack. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: When I listen to you often I think about how difficult it is for you to find focus and commit to something. I often see you in the image of someone sort of wandering about.

[00:26:58]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I guess I've always been like that. I wish I could be steady and stick to something. (chuckles) I never had the knack for doing that. (pause)

THERAPIST: And your being here one way of looking about being here is it's like taking your life more seriously.

CLIENT: Hmmm.

THERAPIST: Taking yourself more seriously, taking your life choices more seriously.

CLIENT: Yeah. I definitely know I have the need for therapy, I just kind of I'm wondering even if I quit the job, I'll probably want to switch insurance because I inquired at my current workplace about switching from an HMO to a PPO, right?

[00:28:08]

THERAPIST: Mmmm-hmmm.

CLIENT: And they said that (inaudible at 00:28:11) doesn't allow you to do that like in the middle of the year. But then if I quit my job and get a new insurance, then maybe I could off-the-bat ask for a PPO.

THERAPIST: Don't you get insurance isn't there an insurance policy through school?

CLIENT: Yeah, but that's kind of going to be expensive if I don't have a job. Yeah, it's like $2,000 a semester. (chuckles) That's a lot. Because state insurance is cheap or it's free. Like if I'm barely earning anything (chuckles) then I might qualify for it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's about they cover you for the year, so it's about $300 a month. The $2,000 a year is about $300 a month.

[00:29:06]

CLIENT: That's a lot of money. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Well, this is in no way to discourage you pursuing your dreams, but you need to eat -

CLIENT: (chuckles)

THERAPIST: and have basic needs met.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I get worried for you that there's just this almost kind of avoidance of that, not taking it that seriously enough.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And if you don't have $500 extra to give to your mother, you don't have $500 to give to your mother.

CLIENT: (chuckles) Yeah. Well, I need to give because where is she going to live?

THERAPIST: Would she go to a homeless shelter? Where would she go?

CLIENT: I don't know. (chuckles) But I think she yeah, I could give up my place.

[00:30:05]

THERAPIST: No, I want to stay with this for a second.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Would she go to a homeless shelter?

CLIENT: I don't know. (chuckles) I mean, she has a little bit of savings, so she probably could pay her rent until the savings run out. But yeah, I think the expectation is that I would help. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Well, I'm sort of putting aside the expectation. What would she do?

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, I think she would. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: She would live in a homeless shelter? That's what she would choose to do?

CLIENT: I don't know. This is not even like a possibility. I haven't discussed this I mean, this has never been brought up, so I'm not sure.

THERAPIST: Does she know how hard it is for you to make ends meet?

[00:31:00]

CLIENT: Well, like if I have a job, then it's not hard. But if I -

THERAPIST: It sounds like right now it might be.

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. (pause) I don't know. I feel so tight. I mean, what is the expression? What's the word? I feel so confused, like torn, yeah. I want to be able to support her and make her happy, but that it is making me unhappy. (chuckles) And it's just not my goal. Like I remember the year that I was full-time. I got no work done, and I was really unhappy about that. I paid off my loans and that's a good thing. But really, I just I will not feel good about myself until I have something to show for my work. That's just -

[00:32:14]

THERAPIST: That's part of the problem. I'm not at all discouraging you. I think it's wonderful.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think your passion is the deepest sense of self-expression, especially with someone with talent. But that statement "I won't feel good about myself until this," that's the problem, that there's an "until."

CLIENT: I know. I hate that I've been thinking this way. (chuckles) I don't know. Like why should I feel good about myself? Like why I mean, why even think in those terms? I know that is great that there's actually people out there who don't even give two hoots about whether they're likeable or not. They're there, you know? (chuckles) They are just undeniably there, you know?

[00:33:06]

I love that. I think that's so nice, to be able to just not even think in those terms. Like not even spend like any minute of any day. (chuckles) Most days, you know. That's nice. Just get on with your work. (chuckles) (pause) I think I have those moments when I'm like busy (chuckles), getting stuff done. (pause) But then something happens, and then I'm just feeling miserable. Like I said, you know, in Nepal like I what was it? So like I helped Chris (ph) with some interviews and that was nice.

[00:34:06]

And then we went to visit these caves, like fifth century old caves where they have these [rock-cut] (ph) carvings, caves off of Bhutan. Then I came back and I thought about that. I mean, it was kind of going well, so I was feeling good about that. Then, you know, his mom started acting crabby and then I was completely in the dumps again. (chuckles) It was like I feel horrible about myself, Chris (ph) is so great, he has achieved so much. His dad actually said, you know, "People like Chris (ph) are made from a different -" the expression is like "they're made from a different kind of clay or soil" or whatever. "But you and I are from a very ordinary soil." (chuckles)

[00:35:06]

It's not that I want to be great or anything, but not that, you know, could Chris (ph) even think about who is great and who isn't, you know? And I'd just like to get to that point, you know. I'd just like to get to a place where people around me and then me included, we don't think about who is great and who is not, who has achieved how much, you know? I think it's really just like people in the place of authority that mess us up, you know. Like parents, like my mom or, you know, his parents who give candy and then I don't get any. (chuckles) And I'm just like okay, you know, I guess I didn't deserve it.

[00:36:00]

Whereas when, you know, I was traveling with Chris (ph) and another friend of mine, we didn't spend time thinking about who is big and who is small, you know, and I didn't either. So I felt pretty I felt I could interact with them. And so, yeah, they've read a lot more books than I have or just different books, you know. They've read more technical stuff. This woman was pursuing (inaudible at 00:36:28) sociology and I kept saying, you know, "You are articulating this much better than me" and she kept interrupting me and saying "Don't say that." So anyway, I was able to engage with her. It's not like I feel it's not like I can't or that I'm dumber than her or anything. We were just differently talented, and it's nice to be able to occupy that space where you don't have people judging you, you know, and making you feel inadequate.

[00:37:03]

I felt like that happened when Chris's (ph) parents were around and didn't happen when Chris (ph) and his friends were around. So I wonder if that's the thing, that it's just like people in authority kind of look at me in a certain way and I feel small or something. (pause)

THERAPIST: What is your thought about not having therapy? What will happen if you don't have it?

CLIENT: I guess I could go back to the old ways of thinking which are harmful for me. I know it would mean that I would take care of some really deep-seated notions I have about things that are harmful right now. I know that.

[00:38:05]

THERAPIST: That's pretty big.

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. I mean, I am thinking that even if I do quit, then I'll definitely look into whatever new insurance I get and see if I can still continue. I mean, it's not I don't want to stop it just for the sake of stopping. (pause) I just wonder if I could just feel that way for an extended period of time instead of just on vacation, you know? Feeling like I'm not being judged and I am, you know, this whole person that people like and want to talk to and want to get to know.

[00:39:14]

THERAPIST: Yes, we have a lot of work to do.

CLIENT: (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I mean it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I'm very serious about that.

CLIENT: You mean unless we do this, people won't want to know me? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: I don't think it has anything else to do with people and their perceptions and their feelings about you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think it has to about you and how you feel about yourself and how you see other people seeing you based on those feelings.

CLIENT: Hmmm. (pause)

THERAPIST: I think that we can help you feel more fortified -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: so that these I mean, we're all affected by other people's opinions and feelings of us. It's not like that ever goes away.

CLIENT: Yeah.

[00:40:09]

THERAPIST: But a little more sturdy so it doesn't feel like it sort of can make or break a moment or a day -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: or a week or a month.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I feel when that happens. (chuckles) For sure. (pause)

THERAPIST: It's like, you know, different types. You can do all sorts and types of exercise but what's really recommended, no matter what you do, is building up your core, right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I'm sure you've heard this expression, building up your core.

[00:40:55]

CLIENT: Yeah. I know my core, both emotional and physical, is very weak. (chuckles) I do want a strong core. (chuckles) I think I'm doing a social service (chuckles) by coming here because if I'm unpleasant, then I think people around me will not have a good time either. (chuckles) And like some people, you know, there are others who don't want to just throw me away. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: What about doing this for you?

CLIENT: Sure, why not? (chuckles) I just you know the very nice opinion I have of myself, so doing things for myself is not really going to motivate me to do anything if you say it's for me. (chuckles) (pause)

[00:41:58]

Even this bag, you know Helen (ph), this woman, Chris's (ph) friend, she said she wanted a bag, and I went to this place where they have like rejected sport merchandise. So I got this bag for her and I was like, this is so great, I want it for myself. So she didn't like it. She couldn't fit her iPad in, and then I took it. I was like, I could've bought two, one for her and one for myself, but I didn't buy any for myself because I just felt like I wouldn't have even gone to this place had she not said "I need a bag," you know. She couldn't come with me, so I went to buy it for her. (chuckles)

[00:42:58]

THERAPIST: Where my mind went -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: is like if you and Chris (ph) come in here and then somehow you have the bag which is therapy when it was sort of maybe for him, or at least for the two of you, and then you got the bag.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I don't know. I do have a bag. (chuckles) And then last night, he said he needs therapy too because he's so confused. Just the whole thing, whether we should be together or not. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: This certainly wouldn't be your last opportunity for therapy, but the longer you wait, the harder it is.

[00:43:58]

CLIENT: Yeah, like I said, I'm not I'm hoping I can still continue so that I could even make an appointment for next week with the hopes that somehow the money will come. Yeah, I mean, if I hadn't told anything at my job, or even if I say anything, maybe they'll be like "Hey, you can do this part-time." (chuckles) But if they do, that means they'll have more money. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Are they not giving you health insurance?

CLIENT: No, they are. It's full-time.

THERAPIST: Would they be willing to give you health insurance for two-thirds time?

CLIENT: If it's part-time, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: So that would solve part of the problem, wouldn't it?

CLIENT: No, because then I wouldn't be able to switch.

THERAPIST: But you could switch at some point, just not now.

CLIENT: Umm, yeah.

THERAPIST: Isn't that what they said?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So we could figure something out until you could switch.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You could probably switch by the end of the year or something. That's not too far away.

CLIENT: That's true, yeah.

[00:44:59]

THERAPIST: As long as you could switch at some point, we can figure something out.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think if I began the new insurance, that might be a solution because then it will be a new insurance.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but that insurance is not going to cover this.

CLIENT: Oh, it's not?

THERAPIST: No. Actually, they don't let private people in private practice be state insurance providers. I think you have to be a clinic. State insurance will not help.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: You get a PPO plan through your employer.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I'm pretty sure I know it's expensive. Your university plan would also probably cover part of this. State insurance will not.

CLIENT: Okay. Hmmm. Okay, that's good to know that state insurance is not the answer.

THERAPIST: It does seem like one good option is if they're willing to have you insured, even if you aren't full time, and at some point you can switch, you know.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: We could work something out in the interim. I mean, that's a possibility.

CLIENT: Yeah. Or I could look into the university -

[00:46:00]

THERAPIST: The university health plan is probably I've seen people from Amherst, not for a while though.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: But I recall that they had some pretty good coverage.

CLIENT: Okay. I could ask about that.

THERAPIST: And they do even though it's a school, they cover you through it usually starts in September and they cover you through the end of August, so it is for a full year. It's not per semester.

CLIENT: Okay, yeah, if that works then I'll do that because the other job option that I have is with UMass.

THERAPIST: Mmmm-hmmm.

CLIENT: And if I'm working there, they should pay part of the health insurance, you know? (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Yeah, who knows how they do things full time. I don't know -

CLIENT: Yeah, I'll find out. I'll find out on Thursday.

THERAPIST: Okay. We do need to stop for today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So what was I going to say? Did I send you the invoice? I did charge your card for the three sessions.

CLIENT: Yeah, no, I didn't get it.

THERAPIST: I'm sorry. I'll make sure to send you the invoice. So let's look at so that was for all not today, but the three sessions.

CLIENT: Okay.

[00:47:04]

THERAPIST: So that would have included that. Okay, so what do you want to look at our next appointment for?

CLIENT: (pause) I don't know. (chuckles) You said you had a 5:15, I'm not sure, next Tuesday. Will that work or not?

THERAPIST: I don't know if I have that. Unfortunately those evening times fill up pretty quickly.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Could you do something at 9:15 on Tuesday? I'm not here on Monday.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Is that too late?

CLIENT: No. (pause)

THERAPIST: I could do 9:10. I don't know if that helps.

CLIENT: How about I make Wednesday?

THERAPIST: Wednesday I'll only have something mid-day. I don't have anything or in the afternoon, later in the afternoon.

CLIENT: What time?

[00:48:00]

THERAPIST: Not that late, though. It will be 3:45.

CLIENT: Sure, you could put me down for that because I have to talk to my boss about working from home or just quitting. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: Okay, so then I have you down on September 5th -

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: at 3:45.

CLIENT: Okay. I've got to write that down because I have a tendency to forget. (pause) I didn't get my checkbook in again (chuckles) but -

THERAPIST: That's okay. You can just pay me for today the next time.

CLIENT: Maybe like a monthly thing.

[00:49:02]

THERAPIST: That's fine too. That's completely fine. That's not a problem.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Okay, sure. So I'll see you next Wednesday at 3:45.

CLIENT: Sounds good.

THERAPIST: Okay, take care.

CLIENT: You too, bye.

END TRANSCRIPT