TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

[00:12:28]

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in. I was just about to call you.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think (Laughing) (inaudible). I couldn't leave the house. (inaudible).

THERAPIST: You know you asked me before like I mean, you know I don't usually have that many free times during the day. You know I have to keep it pretty scheduled.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I certainly am always happy to, yeah sometimes I guess I don't understand like I can come in at 3 I don't know, it just seems like on Friday, like sometimes it seems like, I don't know, like I have an open schedule or something.

CLIENT: No, no, no, no. That's not what I mean. I thought sometimes you have slots open up so I was -

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. No, no, I don't mean to be insulting. It just that sometimes the way you like I don't know, it seems the way you present it I don't right now I don't actually have anything left on Wednesday because you had said you preferred mornings or not? Not prefer mornings?

CLIENT: No, it's not I didn't prefer mornings. It's just I have roommates so we all take turns in the shower, so -

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I get a little delayed in the mornings.

THERAPIST: Because I remember the Monday time you wanted something, you know, I had given you the earlier times. That sounded like that worked better?

CLIENT: Yeah, because you said Mondays at 10:15?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, that (unclear).

THERAPIST: Yeah, I don't. On Wednesdays this is the only morning time I have right now. If something comes available a little bit later, I'll certainly let you know.

CLIENT: Sure, yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I didn't mean that you have an open spot if certain slots open up or anything.

THERAPIST: Yeah. No, it didn't mean to be it's just and maybe I'm making too much of it. It always seems like, I don't know, there was -

CLIENT: No, no, no, I completely assume you are seeing a lot of people so (Laughs), I don't mean to imply the time is easily free or anything.

THERAPIST: I don't take it that way.

CLIENT: (Chuckle) Yeah, I notice. Because Tuesday nights I am out until like 11, with Chris.

THERAPIST: (Unclear) nightclubs.

CLIENT: Yeah, so Wednesday mornings I get up early but I have to wait to shower. It takes a lot of time when you're living by yourself and not living with family. You have to clean up after yourself.

THERAPIST: It's an adjustment.

CLIENT: Yeah, no, it's a good adjustment to be independent, I guess.

(Pause): [00:15:43 00:16:30]

CLIENT: I remember from last time we talked about -

(Pause): [00:16:33 00:17:22]

CLIENT: I don't remember. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:17:23 00:17:30]

THERAPIST: I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, if I did.

CLIENT: No, no. I'm too scared to be upset. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What scared you?

CLIENT: I don't know. I get scared when people get upset. I don't mean to but I just get a little shaken up (chuckle). I'm sure it happens to everyone.

THERAPIST: Sorry?

CLIENT: I'm sure it happens to everyone who -

THERAPIST: Having people be upset or being scared?

CLIENT: Being fearful of anger, I guess.

(Pause): [00:18:13 00:18:25]

THERAPIST: It seems like sometimes when we get sort of really like "hot button," you sometimes say, 'well, I'm sure it's normal. Everybody feels that way.'

CLIENT: Yeah, I guess -

THERAPIST: It's like putting a gloss like a glossy coat -

CLIENT: Is that not -

THERAPIST: That's not (unclear).

CLIENT: (Laughs)

THERAPIST: That's just not (inaudible).

CLIENT: (Laughs) I don't know, like that's the only way I feel I can deal with it, like if I tell myself, 'you know, everyone feels that way. Get over it.' (Laughs)

THERAPIST: I think there's a reason why you in particular feel scared when you feel someone's upset with you.

CLIENT: Yeah. What is the reason?

THERAPIST: I'm not sure. I can make a lot of conjectures. But I think it's an important topic.

CLIENT: Why?

THERAPIST: Because it puts you in a position where you have to appease people and just the nature I actually wasn't upset about it. I was more curious about it. But that in terms of the (unclear) schedule, but that being said, this maybe will open up an important topic. You know, in relationships in general people can be upset with each other. That's what happens in relationships. You can't please someone all the time.

CLIENT: Yeah, I guess.

(Pause): [00:19:50 00:20:11]

CLIENT: I don't know why that made me think of weird things.

(Pause): [00:20:13 00:20:19]

CLIENT: I was doing fine. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:20:19 00:20:32]

CLIENT: I guess I feel like, 'that's it. This person's not going to like me or talk to me ever again.' It's just, even if that's true, that shouldn't bother me so much. (Laughs) I'm really depending on how I feel about this, I don't know if that's how I feel about (unclear). It's probably going to make me afraid no matter who that person is (Laughs).

(Pause): [00:21:04 00:21:25]

CLIENT: I guess it's perhaps the same thing about not being able to deal with rejection. I'm not sure (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:21:36 00:21:44]

CLIENT: I don't know. I feel like I'm strong and then suddenly something comes up and I'm totally like weakened. I don't know why.

(Pause): [00:21:55 00:22:53]

CLIENT: I'm sorry. I'm just wasting your time. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:22:54 00:23:07]

THERAPIST: Maybe that's a comment that's sort of an anxious reaction to feeling like I'm upset with you.

CLIENT: What is?

THERAPIST: That you're wasting my time and have to apologize.

CLIENT: No, I just feel stupid, that we should use this time properly. I just my mind is a blank. (Laugh)

(Pause): [00:23:29 -[00:23:40]

THERAPIST: Using this time, quote/unquote, properly, is about staying with your immediate experience whatever that might be. Let your mind go blank.

(Pause): [00:23:49 00:23:53]

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know. (Unintelligible). So (inaudible). (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:24:10 00:24:29]

CLIENT: I guess I was thinking about why Victor got so upset and I've never seen any friend get this upset with me.

(Pause): [00:24:41 00:24:55]

CLIENT: Why isn't Chris should be the one like throwing things and getting me pissed. (Laughs) Only he hasn't done that.

(Pause): [00:25:04 00:25:59]

CLIENT: I didn't do my homework properly for today. I usually think about what you say and write it down and think about it later on, but I didn't do that and I'm very confused now.

(Pause): [00:26:13 00:26:23]

CLIENT: I think what you said last time was quite significant that not having had parents that could be role models to find role models in my friends, idealize them I'm not aware that I do that, but if feel good doing it (unclear). I feel there's so many people that I can look up too.

(Pause): [00:26:59 00:27:06]

CLIENT: It makes me feel safe. (Laughs) (Pause) And teethered. Tethered?

THERAPIST: That's right.

CLIENT: Did I say it right? And then sometimes those people become too constricting and, like, they overshadow me and I feel like I want to break through and break free and scale to see the light. (Laughs) By myself.

(Pause): [00:27:41 00:28:51]

CLIENT: Do you ever outgrow the need for parents or at some point in your life? (Laughs)

THERAPIST: That's such an interesting question.

CLIENT: Why is it interesting?

THERAPIST: It's why? It's a very interesting question. It's a complicated question. I guess, in part, it depends on what you mean by parents. Parental figures?

(Pause): [00:29:18 00:29:34]

THERAPIST: You know. So what do you mean by parents? What does that represent?

CLIENT: Well, yeah. Parental figures I guess, in my case. You know, obviously their role changes. You depend on them initially and then they depend on you. But I guess in my case I just mean people that I look up to and not just like superficially like people say, 'oh I look up to this person.' I guess in my case it would mean, in a word, dependency. (inaudible). I don't want to say "financial." (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:30:49 00:30:57]

CLIENT: I used to think in (unclear) it's mostly dependency instead of like equal, you know.

(Pause): [00:31:08 00:32:17]

CLIENT: I'm not sure what's required of me. I mean, like in terms of relationships like if people want people to be their equal to say in some regards, 'well, here's someone who can depend on me and that would be nice.' Some (unclear) for feeling useful and (unclear) solutions.

(Pause): [00:32:48 00:32:57]

CLIENT: I'm not making a lot of sense today. (Laughs) I just don't get my thoughts in order. I'm just not knowing -

(Pause): [00:33:08 00:35:58]

THERAPIST: Where's has your mind gone?

CLIENT: I don't know. (Laughs) I not really thinking about (Pause) yeah, a lot of stuff thinking about what I haven't brought up yet. (Laughs) I'm sorry.

(Pause): [00:36:20 00:36:34]

THERAPIST: Well, I encourage you to bring up whatever is on your mind even if it doesn't seem relevant.

CLIENT: Okay. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:36:40 00:36:52]

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm going to my teacher this afternoon and I'm going to ask her something I submitted and whether she thinks it's acceptable and I wonder what she thinks of me as a worker and -

(Pause): [00:37:13 00:37:24]

CLIENT: And I'm thinking of submitting again and I'm worried that if they reject me I might be heartbroken or not. Maybe I learned my lesson and developed a thick skin.

(Pause): [00:37:40 00:37:48]

CLIENT: How foolish it is to keep submitting work and (inaudible) and there is so much work I have to do still for me to plan and get organized. Lots of reading to do for my class, I guess. (inaudible). (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:38:16 00:38:31]

CLIENT: And how nice it is not to think about Victor all the time. (Laughs). I still want to see him. But he doesn't want anything to do with me. And that's (unclear). He's still in love with me, which is so weird. (Laughs) And I don't know what's wrong with him. Will I ever get married? Will I have children? Where will I live? Will I get published?

(Pause): [00:39:06 00:39:26]

CLIENT: Will I stop feeling like what is that expression? Second wheel? Spare wheel?

THERAPIST: Third wheel?

CLIENT: Spare wheel.

THERAPIST: Spare wheel. What is the spare wheel -?

CLIENT: Like the if we are together I'm -

(Pause): [00:39:49 [00:39:57]

CLIENT: I'm like a (unclear).

(Pause): [00:39:56 00:40:04]

CLIENT: Will I be happy? (inaudible). (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:40:14 00:40:37]

THERAPIST: I'm struck by how upset you got before about thinking about people being upset with you.

CLIENT: Yeah. You got me scared thinking that I'll never be able to make it right with Chris.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: I don't know, I just dread that moment when he is irritated or upset with me because it feels like if something irrevocable is happening in that moment.

(Pause): [00:41:27 00:41:30]

CLIENT: Which is not to say that I used to be (inaudible) and I used to say that fights are healthy, you know. It's better out than in. And I considered myself confrontational. That doesn't mean that I don't get really scared when someone seems upset. He has to start the fight. (Laughs) (inaudible). I don't fight as much as I used to.

(Pause): [00:42:23 00:42:33]

CLIENT: I don't feel comfortable fighting with Chris. I'm really, really scared of him. Maybe after this thing with Victor I'll feel like Chris can be so freakishly agreeable. (Laughs) It makes you want to throw people out of your house and call the police. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:42:57 00:43:04]

THERAPIST: It makes you feel unsafe.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:43:05 00:43:25]

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean like (inaudible) I really cried like crazy in itself like I was losing my dad. And I didn't cry over my dad, you know. Like he initiated the separation, my mom and I, who has never fought for her freedom from him. We didn't contact him. He was from our side so I didn't cry over losing him, but I guess Victor brought that out and (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:44:16 00:44:44]

CLIENT: It's just part of the culture here, you have to yell at people I guess. I guess a child yells a lot a friends and (unclear). (Pause) I used to think it was quite exhilarating to get mad and yell at someone. (Laughs) And I used to feel, oh I mustn't yell because I can't yell at people. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: That was more of a cultural more, then?

CLIENT: Yeah, that's what I think. That people are a lot less formal (unclear). It's just a cultural thing, so -

THERAPIST: (Unclear), we're going to stop for today. I will see you on Monday.

CLIENT: 10:15?

THERAPIST: You got it.

CLIENT: (Laughs) Okay. And Wednesday at 9?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Is it okay? I keep telling you I'm going to give you a check. I feel bad I haven't. Do you mind if we wait for the insurance reimbursement so I can figure it out?

CLIENT: No rush.

THERAPIST: Okay. Very good. I will see you on Monday. Take care.

CLIENT: (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Yes. Bye-bye.

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