TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Good morning.

THERAPIST: How are you?

CLIENT: I'm pretty okay. [Pause] Ready?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Some things that I think would be nice to do with you are walk, hike, in [inaudible at 00:01:36], walk and hike in [inaudible at 00:01:44]. I think it would be nice to be together. I think it would be nice to go to your house and meet your family and hang out there. [Long pause.] It's just painful. [00:03:50]

THERAPIST: Very? [Pause] Is it painful to imagine but not be able to do those things? [00:05:26]

CLIENT: It's painful to imagine it by myself. [inaudible at 00:06:00] not doing it.

THERAPIST: I see. Do you sense that I'm not imagining that with you? Is there something in particular we can figure out and question?

CLIENT: Well lately I'm imagining it might be as I describe the things but I don't know how you feel about that. I think that would be nice to play chess again. For some reason I can't imagine going to a loud concert together or a football game or something. It's a very sweet line to listen to the music or watch performances of modern ballet, sort of [inaudible at 00:08:21] but doing competitively. That's something I do every now and then to feel really, really good. [00:08:34]

THERAPIST: How about a therapy session?

CLIENT: I mean it's not that many so I deal with it. But it's this one guy in particular, Greg (ph), who said he grew up playing music in Vermont and Greg is this amazing guitar player. He's like a prodigy but he's very, very he came up hard and he didn't go to college and he sort of had difficulty with substance abuse but he's making it in Los Angeles and is very religious and he sings a lot about God. But he's not biased. Anyway, he there's this very vivid memory of my freshman year. We were all part of Vassar [inaudible] clubs and we were members of the one full of a whole bunch of people who don't like being at Vassar like artists and religious and writings, gay and lesbian people, yes, all kinds of diverse styled people. And the cool thing about a [inaudible at 00:10:31] instead of spending money on good food or good beer we spend money on live music three times a week. And there were some amazing groups that came through, including a bunch of jazz musicians who are students and then hosted this thing in the Tap Room for a while where we paid for some Vermont musicians to come down and it's like when I imagine what life might be like if I lived in the 60s, which sometimes I'm desperately wanting. [00:11:31]

So except for the microbrew would not be on tap but other than that, there are people who would hear the music and which is almost sort of a demi-god. The musicians' have this aura and I was a pretty young and innocent 18-year-old who, I don't know, I was smoking cigarettes because that made me feel very cool and would be passing joints from one musician to another so that they could use their hands to play. But I was also a musician so I had this kind of special status and at the time I was dating a drummer, a second drummer. And Greg's concert was there at that night and he was also 18 but had a completely different place in life, and he told Jeremy that night that I looked hot and special, like a really special person, and that maybe he might try to come back and get with me. And Jeremy told him no, sorry man, I'm next. At some point in my life I'm next. [00:13:41]

So I think Greg never came back to do that but I sometimes wish that he had because it made that time exciting. He's got this way he moves with his guitar that's so sensual. If you've seen Bob Marley perform live, he has kind of a similar way about him in [inaudible at 00:14:36]. Anyway -

THERAPIST: [inaudible]?

CLIENT: Yes. But also pure emotion and he can't help it, there's so much coming out of him. And his lifestyle reflects that and I there are [inaudible at 00:15:16] but I wonder what that would be like sometimes. [00:15:20]

THERAPIST: He had already taken [inaudible]?

CLIENT: Yes, and make not too much all for him.

THERAPIST: That's kind of what he got.

CLIENT: He's got a good family but they're not that supportive, they don't support him I think.

THERAPIST: Is he still good?

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: Is he still good?

CLIENT: Yes. I mean music is generally pretty powerful. It's said when you have the music plus the emotional outburst [inaudible at 00:17:15], I think that's the most powerful thing for me. So I like music and Jeremy. [00:17:32].

THERAPIST: And he didn't f***king talk that much.

CLIENT: Yes, what's with that? It's also not enough physical contact. They don't do that here.

THERAPIST: It's very annoying. It could be worse. [00:18:15]

CLIENT: Yes. One or another.

THERAPIST: It would go a long way, I imagine, towards communicating like they usually do.

CLIENT: But I think they're communicating that way when you say that you can't.

THERAPIST: Is that the same?

CLIENT: No, it's not the same.

THERAPIST: What's their thing?

CLIENT: I can't penetrate you. I think if I were I said this before if I were able to, I think I might lose or shed some of the attachment.

THERAPIST: If you could? What does that mean to abate [inaudible at 00:20:30]?

CLIENT: I don't know, just knowing what you're all about and then it comes down to what you like, what you don't like.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: But in an intimate way. Not like the way I would penetrate someone else next to me sitting on a train.

THERAPIST: Somebody you wanted to know.

CLIENT: Yes. [Pause] I had a shred of doubt in two circumstances. One is when I decided to add another session in a week. For just a short time I thought oh my Lord. What if I stop liking it? I sit in a whole lot of sessions of stuff that I don't like, almost like an attachment to the attachment. [00:22:42]

And the other thing is there's this concert in West Blair, British Columbia, and a lot of [inaudible] friends from the lab are going and a lot of people that we know well from other labs are going. And it makes me so happy to be sort of traveling with and rooming with Joanne, who is my closest friend in the lab since Thomas has left. And when we actually made the flight reservations and the hotel reservations it's a long five-day conference I had the same kind of pause, like looks like I got stuck with Joanne.

All the sudden I realized in both cases that I'm in so deep and it wouldn't be that hard to not regress a little bit or whatever. I've invested so much that there's all this space behind me that I've covered and what if I move backward a little bit in my attachment? [00:24:35]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And how that would feel bad.

THERAPIST: How would it feel bad?

CLIENT: Well I think it would feel bad because I've just, I've gotten used to the intensity but maybe it would feel kind of liberating, too. But it would be a transition; it would be a transition that I would find unpleasant.

THERAPIST: Because if you enjoy the intensity and the like-closeness and it would be a loss.

CLIENT: Yes. But it's one thing to worry about a loss that's actually a loss, like leaving the person in some meaningful way, and it's another thing I think to worry about what if I just stop feeling the way I feel. [Pause.]

THERAPIST: Do you have any clear ideas or fantasies (ph) about why that would happen, what you'd get sick of? [00:26:58]

CLIENT: That stuff might start to annoy me.

THERAPIST: Anything in particular?

CLIENT: About Joanne?

THERAPIST: About Joanne or me.

CLIENT: I don't know but Joanne or you might appear to be more invested than I am.

THERAPIST: And that would get annoying for you?

CLIENT: I think it would, I think it would be a little icky. It's kind of like when you like a guy and then you find out that he really likes you, sometimes that's a turn off. But sometimes it's a turn-on. [00:28:28]

THERAPIST: I guess in part based on how much the person has to do with the pursuit or any measure or something. [inaudible at 00:29:06].

CLIENT: Yes, and I guess if you are if I am so invested that I am continually uncovering things about the person and I find something that I don't like, I might not be able to feel compassionate for him, tolerant or whatever. But I felt so awful that I called this woman, a therapist, at the end of December and I had a long talk with her and I really liked her. And she was having this operation at the beginning of this month and said that she would call in the second or third week of January and would see if I wanted to come in still. And she called last week and I didn't return the call and then she called again. And I didn't pick up but I left her a message that I would not be coming in. [inaudible at 00:31:00] betrayed. Felt really sad about that. Hope [inaudible at 00:31:11] and I don't know, had she been really available at the time, I think things could turn out differently. I am sort of mourning that. [00:31:29]

THERAPIST: But -

CLIENT: Well it's just silly to be attached to this woman. Jeremy calls it emotional super glue because I have these little nodules all over me of super glue and they're oozing out glue and they and I just immediately get stuck for a period. And it feels silly to get, to feel anything strongly for this woman but I do. [00:32:15]

THERAPIST: Well I guess what I imagine about it is that it seems really nice you felt like connecting to her and if she had been available to you then you wouldn't have had to keep dealing with me, which is exciting and important and a real pain in the ass. Maybe that's not quite the way to put it but -

CLIENT: It is.

THERAPIST: not that far off, yes. More like it was very painful and terribly frustrating.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And I imagine maybe you wouldn't have had to deal with that.

CLIENT: And Jeremy would've been happier and I would've felt like I was dealing with it in a way that feels more normal but doesn't necessarily feel like it was actually I don't know. I feel really good taking the opportunity to face this. But it would've been like ripping a band-aid off and just sort of dealing with the pain instead of what it feels now, which is like ripping the band-aid off three times a week and going and getting a new one every time. And I want it to be shiny and colorful and I don't know, maybe sometimes it is but then it seems like it's an illusion. And I don't know how far this band-aid thing's going to go but that's kind of where I am right now. [00:35:06]

THERAPIST: I think there can be such a huge difference. Like at some moments I think you can feel so connected and close and we're together and things, and then other moments, particularly when you're not here but I guess sometimes when you're here as well, you feel sully or [inaudible at 00:36:08] and I think I feel so far away and so much on a different page. And I think it's overwhelmingly sad and hurtful and frustrating.

CLIENT: And confusing. [00:36:25]

THERAPIST: And confusing. It probably doesn't really make a whole lot of sense why you get hit so hard, why you [inaudible at 00:36:43] different and other times why you need worry. Sometimes when you're here it can feel so drastically different than at other times and how I guess there's the kind of, of course there's a threat and experience of threat, like if you're thinking about our being on a walk and it feels like I'm thinking about something completely different, I'm thinking about that in such a different way, or -

CLIENT: I don't ever think that you're distracted and not meaning to. I don't. I think I have lot of your attention. I think it's more you're not participating, you [inaudible at 00:37:59] watching and letting it be.

THERAPIST: As opposed to being effective or reciprocal? [00:38:11]

CLIENT: Yes, either. I still think it would be really frustrating even if we were effective or reciprocating because it is just a bad idea. And I guess I'm not that used to keeping things in my head and not acting on them.

THERAPIST: Well we don't know how much I'm effective. I mean I'm probably not all that reactive. That doesn't take away from your [inaudible] I think.

CLIENT: I don't know. I really want to be in this space that doesn't exist. I don't want to be electively intimate with you; I want to be completely open and intimate with you and have everybody in our lives sort of appreciate and accept that beauty. And, I don't know like okay, thanks for coming over, see you soon. Or like, okay, nice to see you again. I don't know, kind of like [inaudible at 00:41:04] where you only had one of kind of like sometimes hug and kiss and somehow that's okay with everyone. And it feels like and then we could get down to the business of living life and exploring and discovering cool things together. [00:41:54]

THERAPIST: I see. We wouldn't have to spend so much time talking about what the hell is going on here and would be able to take a nice walk somewhere or go listen to music somewhere or have some nice chess games or read our books.

CLIENT: Yes. I hate that clock.

THERAPIST: The bearer of bad news?

CLIENT: Yes, it's the bearer of bad news. Can we sit in silence for a little bit?

THERAPIST: Sure. I completely forgot to give you a five-minute warning.

CLIENT: That's okay. I don't know that a five-minute warning is going to help

THERAPIST: No, but it would be a good idea if I did what I said I was going to do. [00:43:52]

CLIENT: Yes, that would be good. [Pause] Okay. I'd liked it. It helps. Bye. [00:45:31]

END TRANSCRIPT