TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi. [0:04:56]

CLIENT: Sorry. (pause)

THERAPIST: How are you?

CLIENT: Fine, thank you. (sneezes) Excuse me.

THERAPIST: Bless you. (pause)

CLIENT: I had (inaudible at 0:05:48) my nice yesterday. Let's see, school is over for the semester but I wanted longer. [0:06:06] It probably kind of feels like I miss that structure.

But I'm kind of a little sad about theater department. I went to see my roommate yesterday and she said she keeps they keep finding people. But some for some reason these people don't want my room. So I've already paid for the December rent without actually living there. And I've paid for the January rent also. I feel really bad about this. Just working out $800, $900 a month without like sort of just wasted. So... [0:07:01] (pause)

I mean the reason why I wanted to leave the place I mean, we've talked about all of the psychological, subconscious reasons but the practical thing that I was thinking was there was already someone who was interested. So I kept thinking about her and thinking of saving that money or giving it to my mom.

So then when I finally decided to leave that place, I asked that girl and she was still interested. And so I asked my roommate to see if they would be a good fit. And they're not. And I was like I was a little upset by that because (Elaina's) like, "Yea, the girl is a little pushy." And I'm thinking she can't be any pushier than me. Or when do you guys actually see each other? Not that often. [0:08:02] It was kind of lonely in that place because I wouldn't see my roommates for days. And there's such little interaction time. Why does it matter that the person you don't really see that often is pushy? I don't know.

THERAPIST: Are you looking for someone to replace you too?

CLIENT: I cannot because...

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: I cannot do anything because they are the ones who have to live with the person.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So I'm not allowed to do anything. I mean, I know I signed the lease. I'm responsible for the rent and obviously I'll pay it. But it just makes me feel a little bad for so they're all they reject to get a lot of interest. But then they reject people. And one of the guys they rejected because he was upset that they that people mispronounce his name. I don't know. (chuckling) [0:09:01]

Well, yesterday I was feeling really, really horrible. I was walking around the streets crying. Just I just and I was actually aware of what I was doing. I was thinking of and re-thinking and re-thinking the same things. And I was feeling so victimized. And like what we talked about having that narrative constantly debilitate me. And I kept thinking all the odds are against me. And... (pause)

Well, and in the morning I was on Facebook. And one of the people I met a while ago she's an artist. [0:10:03] She does drawings. And yesterday someone posted her interview in this national newspaper in India. And I I mean, I like that girl a lot. But a part of me was when am I going to make a little something of myself that I'm proud of? And she's created this bubble. This enchanted world where she does her art. But I'm sure there are other parts to it. I'm sure she's had to struggle and she's had to accept that she's not going to have too much money. But I just feel when am I going to be able to make that happen? Every time I've try for it, something else goes wrong or something else happens that makes me feel bad. [0:11:01]

I guess another way of looking at it is that I react to those situations in a negative way. I don't know. I mean, what's the point of always re-thinking about, "Oh, that person, they had such a nice childhood." And like, "And their parents are nice. And they can go home and be with their parents and lean on them anytime they want to. And I don't have that." I mean, OK, I don't have that. Let's accept that as a given and move on. I mean, that's what (David) would like me to do.

So but I don't know. Why do I keep doing that? (pause) I mean, I guess I look at other people to draw lessons from their life. [0:12:05] How did they do it? How do they ignore all the crap and do what they want to do? I'm always looking for that. But I also end up looking at, "Oh, they have this thing that I never had." That cannot I cannot do anything about that so... (pause) I mean, we all compare ourselves to each other all the time, right? Or that's like some people like me who are insecure do that all do it more often. I mean...

THERAPIST: That's true.

CLIENT: Yea. And I was asking him. But I was like (inaudible at 0:13:00) because he knew this girl too. [0:13:02] And I was like, "So just to make this clear. You have absolutely you feel absolutely nothing negative when I tell you about her entry." He's like, "Yea, I don't." And I'm like, "Wow." I'm like totally insecure. And you're like and I mean, he's like, "No. I know what I have to get done." And I'm like, "How can you not feel like what you're doing might not be as significant or as popular as what she's doing? And you don't think that way." It's like, well, I wish I could be just a little bit like that. (pause) Will I always be insecure? Or will I be able to feel a little secure in myself?

THERAPIST: You're not sure. [0:14:01]

CLIENT: Huh?

THERAPIST: You're not sure.

CLIENT: No. Right now, I'm not.

THERAPIST: Because you're feeling especially insecure?

CLIENT: Yea, I guess. I mean, I'm sure I I'm trying to think if there were times in my life where I was less insecure. But I don't know. I might have been. But I might have still been insecure about other things. Even as a child or something. (pause)

And it's like, "Just stop going to Facebook. Stop looking at like deliberately torture yourself." Like, "Ooh, I'll start Facebook in the morning so I can feel bad all day." (chuckling) [0:15:06] But he's right about that. Then I'm like, "But I have to develop those impulses." And so I can be emotionally strong and look at things objectively. And he's like, "Well, until you do that, you shouldn't." I don't know. (pause)

But I should say what's changed. Or maybe it's I don't want to jinx it but and I hope it's true there but I'm learning that thing about what I'm feeling is temporary. I don't know. I hope it's true because previously all these things I'm feeling, I would feel them so intensely. [0:16:04] And I would just be totally in the moment. And then as (Victor) says that there would just be this abundant present. And no regard for there is a past or if there well, regard for the past, definitely, but no regard for the future. But I think my thinking is opening in that direction a little bit. And I actually do feel like or a sense that oh, I guess I'm sad right now and it feels awful. But maybe I won't feel so awful in a few hours or in a few days. I don't know. (pause) [0:17:05]

THERAPIST: That's quite a change.

CLIENT: Is it? It's a small I don't know. I want to be like it's there. But I do. I mean, I was feeling I was very, very sad yesterday. I mean, sad enough to cry and not even realize that I'm out in public. (chuckling) But yea, today I wouldn't feel like crying. (chuckling) And I don't know. (pause) [0:18:01]

Maybe I just don't know how to be secure just in myself. I feel like I need a set of legitimate achievements to be able to build on my sense of being on that my sense of self. I mean, if I did nothing at all. I don't know. I don't feel like I should deserve to feel secure. And just the knowledge that I am that I exist. (pause) [0:19:01]

I don't know. I want to play the blame game. But I'm like did this come from a did this sense of you have to do something. You have to do something otherwise, it's awful. I wonder if this comes from (David). But...

THERAPIST: Well, it's also the reason you seek him out.

CLIENT: Yea. Yesterday I had this dream that and this is like I never dream about him so it's very strange but I had this dream that we were in the room. In this place that looks very normal. But it's a game where it's some horror movie. Where you lift things or they lift on their own. [0:20:02] And there's a glass or something. And I was behind when he was putting those things out because he knew how to do it. Or maybe it stems from us playing Angry Birds too much. But I don't know. (chuckling) I don't know.

THERAPIST: So can you say the dream again?

CLIENT: Oh, just stuff you lift stuff. And there's a glass or something horrible happens. And I was on his arm and I was next to him. And he was going ahead and diffusing the stuff. Or doing it the right way because he knew how to.

THERAPIST: Diffuse the explosion?

CLIENT: Yea. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: And what were like what was the explosion was like in a box?

CLIENT: I don't know. It was like furniture or something that suddenly it looks like furniture. But as soon as you go close or do something, it changes. [0:21:06] It was deceptive stuff. It looked normal. But as soon as you did something, it changed and became like yea, harmful. (chuckling) Something scary popped out or something. But that was just one of the dreams. I have other dreams too in which he wasn't there.

THERAPIST: Do you remember those?

CLIENT: Oh, yea. (chuckling) I was just I had the ability to fly. (chuckling) It was weird but so it's like Google Maps. Do you do that sometimes? I just sometimes just plop myself down on some corner of the street. And that images view where you can actually see the street level view. [0:22:05] And then you just go from one point to one point. And then you're able to see the whole street like that. So it was like that.

Yea, I was just imagining. I would say, "OK, I'm going to go down this street." And I would just fly over it. I don't know. I was in an auto with this really famous actor in India. He doesn't look so good now. He's in his 40s but I was with him and he was 18 and he looked really, really cute and hot. It's weird. And then I tried really, really hard to imagine (Victor's) Street. But I just couldn't do it for some reason. Then finally I did it. [0:23:01] I cheated or something and then I did it. And then I was hovering over him or something. That's it. (chuckling) It's so weird.

THERAPIST: What was the feeling in the dream?

CLIENT: I don't know. I was just like, "Oh, I'm flying." I don't know that I was surveying stuff. I don't know. I can't describe it.

THERAPIST: What was your relationship with the actor?

CLIENT: (chuckling) I think it was sexual. It's very weird and rare for me to have that kind of a dream. But yea, he was holding me in his arms or something. Isn't that weird? After I had that dream, I I don't know. I think I had that dream after the walking into the deceptive living room with (David). [0:24:06]

THERAPIST: What do you make of it?

CLIENT: I'm crazy? No, maybe not that. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: That's interesting.

CLIENT: (laughing) No. I mean, I'm sure you've heard crazier dreams in your profession. But no, I mean, I need (David) through his guidance, yea.

THERAPIST: That's what comes to mind?

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Needing (David)?

CLIENT: Yea. And for the first time maybe letting him be letting him take care of me, letting him lead me. I don't know what I feel about that because I thought I would want to do it myself. Take care of stuff myself. [0:25:02]

I think because I've said it in this way before that I feel like everyone is expecting me to be an adult and be independent. And I feel that myself. So maybe I was resisting him being in charge and leaning on him too much. But I guess I'm accepting that I should lean on him more. Or I already am leaning on him. I don't know.

THERAPIST: I mean, it sounds like the dream with the sort of sexual relationship with that actor came after.

CLIENT: I don't know why. It was a totally unexpected because I was just having a very innocent dream about flying.

THERAPIST: So the flying came first? [0:26:00]

CLIENT: Yea. I think I might have seen my mom also. She was teaching or something in a school. And then I just started flying from there. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: What did it feel like?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: To fly. What did it feel like?

CLIENT: A bit scary. A bit weird but normal and exciting. Imaginative. And also I guess a little, yea fun and dangerous and being sly. And because I kept telling myself, "Of course, I'm invisible. No one can see me." So...

THERAPIST: So you were flying and you were invisible? Or you were just high up?

CLIENT: I don't know. It's like the Google Maps thing. [0:27:01] You feel it's yea. It was pretty close because of the ground and buildings. I don't know. But then in the with the actor, I was visible.

THERAPIST: You were visible?

CLIENT: Yea. (pause)

THERAPIST: Did you feel free?

CLIENT: I guess. I felt just like I was doing something that I wasn't supposed to. [0:27:59] Or I was doing something that people I don't know might find weird if they knew about it. Or not like it or something like that. But yea, it was freeing.

I don't exactly know what it feels like to feel free. There's a lot of anxiety attached to freedom, I think, for me. So because I'm doing something it feels like I'm doing it for the first time. Or I don't know what it's going to be. Yea, what is free what is it what do you mean when you say, "feel free?" I don't know.

THERAPIST: This was this is a very (Cecelia) piece thing to say. You start elaborating on it. You have an idea and then you stop. And then you ask me. [0:29:05]

CLIENT: No. Because I'm saying I'm telling that, for me, it's something that's full of anxiety so I'm not really sure if that is freedom or if it's not.

THERAPIST: Whether freedom and anxiety could go together?

CLIENT: I guess they do. But I'm saying, for me, they do. I haven't asked other people if that's the thing for them too. (pause)

THERAPIST: What do you make of the looking for (Victor's) street?

CLIENT: My obsession with him as (David) puts it. (pause) [0:30:01] Yea, this is so much crap attached to that whole thing. It's just so weird. Yea, the best everyone is doing are just ignoring it and nothing can matter again.

Yea, I don't think about it now. I was asking about like, will we ever be OK with him. Or I don't know. I mean, he was a good friend. And now he's not even that. [0:31:05] Yea, there's so much weirdness to that episode. I see him on Facebook or (David) says stalk him. Or I don't know. And he's friending women and it's like I don't know. I'm just afraid. I mean, I wanted to be OK that he's seeing other women. But I'm not sure if I am OK. (pause) [0:32:01]

I think I was hovering over his bed because he was sleeping. And I just wanted to be like give him a hug. And then just quickly fly away or something. (chuckling) It wasn't a sexual thing which is weird because it should be but it wasn't. It was actually sexual with a third, totally different, unattainable guy. It's like unattainable in every single way. I mean, you look that way in ‘86 or ‘90 or something. (chuckling) (pause) But...

THERAPIST: So there was a confusion of time in the dream too?

CLIENT: No, no, no. Oh, yea. Maybe you're right, yea.

THERAPIST: In that piece anyway.

CLIENT: Yea. Well, yea. I'm not sure what time it was. [0:33:04] I just assumed that what that meant was like it's still today. But this guy this actor still looks like what he did when I actually used to have a crush on him as a ten year old or something. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Do you think that's the relationship with (Victor) too? That this sort of kind of love like comfort thing you're looking for feels like a younger your younger self too?

CLIENT: I don't know. I guess love makes you feel younger.

THERAPIST: Well, I was coming on the nonsexual piece. I was thinking you were struck by the fact that it didn't feel like a sexual relationship. And almost like a friend or even a parent like just that comfort.

CLIENT: Yea. [0:34:02]

THERAPIST: And so you associate it to be ten when the actor was the age he was so I wondering if you in the dream were sort of a younger person looking for something comfort or love?

CLIENT: I don't know if I was younger. Maybe I was a little younger. I don't know. I never pay attention to my age in my dreams. I don't know if other people do. But yea, I come across I never thought about it but I think I come across as a girl child. Not really a woman but that's because I don't think of myself as a woman. I don't know when I will. But I was flapping my arms and my arms looked pretty thin so I was like, Yea, this could be a younger me." Or... [0:35:00]

Yea, maybe I feel like that because I just don't have friends who are younger to me. So I don't feel older. I did date a 24 year old a while ago. I didn't know he was 24. I thought he was in his 30s. But as soon as he told me he was 24, I just completely lost interest if I even had it in the first place. But I didn't really feel old with him. We didn't really do anything sexual so (inaudible at 0:35:49). (pause)

Yea, it's just like I don't know with (Victor). I just feel like there's so much suppressed stuff now. It's just going to be suppressed. I wanted to give him this book for his birthday. But I couldn't even bring myself to mailing it or telling him that I bought it. So... (pause)

(Seth) keeps telling me, "He treated you really, really badly." And he even said yesterday, "Are you going to ruin your career your dreams just because of him? You're so you're obsessed with him." And I was like, "God, I hope not." So... [0:37:03] (pause)

THERAPIST: How would that happen that you would ruin your dreams?

CLIENT: Just not being able to work. And I'm just constantly thinking about him and stuff, I guess. I'm trying that's what I'm trying not to do that. I don't but I do think about him. But it's I don't try to contact him. Because then I'll just be like, "Oh, has he replied?" Or if I might want to see him, then I'd be like, "Oh, does he want to see me?" And when and in what condition and if I see him then I'll be like, "Oh, are we going to get back together or not?" [0:38:03] And it's just going to be it's going to waste too much time. So weeks, months I don't really have that shouldn't do that right now at this stage. (pause)

THERAPIST: What do you think the explosives represented?

CLIENT: I don't know. Well, now that I'm describing the dream, I'm struck by the whole deceptive aspect of the things. They looked normal. And maybe that's how I feel like stuff comes across as you know, "Oh, I can deal with this situation." And but then it explodes in my face. [0:39:01] Or it scares me. It was scarier than explosives. It was more like I don't know it might change into a ghost or witch or something. And...

THERAPIST: Things are not what they seem.

CLIENT: Yea. And then it was like a game. I don't know, maybe in a haunted house or something or not really because everything was bright and stuff. But then you go up close and then just kind of change. And I didn't know how to deal with it or (David) was dealing with them for me. So yea. [0:40:01] (pause) I mean... (pause)

In some ways, I guess I have felt like that. (crying) Maybe if I go to parties with him hosted by his friends or his faculty and just watching and waiting for a cue from him where yea. Or in India is when he was doing his research, I was just following him. And being with him made it easier or navigating a foreign city. [0:41:08] He would know how to navigate the city. Take an ottoman [ph] stuff. Even in my own university, I was with him. And he and I were traveling together.

So yea, I mean, in a place like India, it's a bit risky for a single woman to go about on her own. I mean, they do it all the time. But it's just like I haven't been there in a long time. So it for me, it's a bit scary. So it's nice that he was there with me. [0:42:01] (pause)

Yea, but how can I feel secure if I have if I'm a sidekick. Well, it's funny. Isn't it funny? It's ironic because he's there to make me feel secure. But then I feel insecure because I'm not the hero myself. I'm not Batman. Or I'm not I'm Robin but I'm not even like I don't even have half the powers that Robin might have. I don't even know what powers does Robin have? But... (pause)

THERAPIST: You see it but you can't shine.

CLIENT: Yea. I guess. Because then I was flying on my own and I see what you mean about it being liberating. It was. [0:43:05] I mean, it was also it was a twinge of anxiety with it. Not that Oh, my God. I'm going to fall. I don't think I felt that. But I just do I know what I'm doing? That kind of thing.

THERAPIST: So there's an anxiety about having the freedom.

CLIENT: Yea. I mean, it's just like what I said so often here. That OK, I have 45 minutes. What do I say? How do I say it?

THERAPIST: What do you do with the open space?

CLIENT: Yea. And yea, it was in an urban space. I was I had my roots. Like I said on it was like Google Maps. [0:44:02] It was really from point A to point B. I actually remember thinking that, "OK, from now I'm going to fly from this street and street to that to the end of that street which is where (Victor's) house is," or something like that. It was very structured and oriented. It was not open space and on top of an ocean or something. (chuckling) (pause) [0:45:01]

Yea, I wish I knew how to feel more secure just by myself. It's OK if (David) wants to help me and he wants to take care of me. And I should let him. But I should also know I can figure out the deceptive furniture on my own.

THERAPIST: You know, (Cecelia), we're going to need to stop for today. So I will see you next Wednesday and next Friday.

CLIENT: OK, sounds good.

THERAPIST: OK? And that will give us one (inaudible at 0:45:48).

CLIENT: Merry Christmas.

THERAPIST: Oh, thank you very much, same to you. Take care.

CLIENT: You too.

THERAPIST: Bye.

CLIENT: Bye.

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