TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I got to keep it all day and play with the brakes.

THERAPIST: Yea. All right, I know seems like I have two seconds to talk about in person.

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: So I'll try next time to do that. (pause) So...

CLIENT: So (pause) I think, this week, my mood has been lower than it's been in a very long time. Just I keep getting into these cycles of self-loathing that I can't snap myself out of. [0:01:07]

THERAPIST: That's not good.

CLIENT: No. And partly it's around work. I'm still spending way too much time at work browsing the Internet and goofing off and not getting work done. And when I am when I do manage to close the browser, I can't I still can't bring myself to focus on the work.

It's just yea, yesterday I had this document I was trying to read. And I sat there just staring at the screen passing my eyes over the words but not actually comprehending what I was reading over probably an hour. That was really frustrating.

And my boss has mentioned that he's frustrated at my lack of progress. And that he had hoped I would be done with new hire training. And ramped up and fully productive by now which he didn't say productive he said contributing which I'm not. [0:02:07] And I'm a little worried.

THERAPIST: If to sound clear, in what context did he say that?

CLIENT: On our weekly one-on-one meeting.

THERAPIST: And he kind of said, "You're not as up to speed as I was hoping you to be?"

CLIENT: Yep. I mean, he asked me, "Is there anything going on? Do you know why this is? Because you're obviously very smart and I want to understand. Because I want to feel like you like you're contributing as much as I want the..."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: "...contributions you can make."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: If that makes sense, I guess?

THERAPIST: Yep. When was that?

CLIENT: Oh, this Monday. (pause) [0:03:00] But yea, so then we had a group meeting Wednesday. That was just yesterday, wasn't it? Oh my goodness.

THERAPIST: As I can tell, yea.

CLIENT: I've been getting up early every day this week for a variety of reasons. And it's just thrown me off.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: I'm not getting enough sleep.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But yea, so had this meeting. The group conference called the remote groups. And then after the call ended, we turned off the phone. Our little mini-group hereone of the guys said, "I'm really frustrated with ‘So-and-so'. She said that she's been doing all this stuff but then she hasn't written anything up." And my boss was like, "Yea, she keeps stating things in her status reports. And I really need to press her to ask what she's really doing." And then we had this conversation about how she was underperforming and not meeting her commitments and how we could work around that while they've talked to her direct manager to figure out the performance improvement plans. [0:04:07]

And I was just I felt really ashamed and humiliated both on behalf of this other woman and out of fear that I'm next in line to get this treatment. And what are people saying about me behind my back? And it's just very stressful and unfortunate.

And at the same time, I have a friend who's applying for a job. He was working at a big company and then he got laid off. And then his step-father and his father both died. And his mom developed cancer so he moved back home...

THERAPIST: Oh my gosh, yea.

CLIENT: ...to support his mom.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: And was working at Walmart mechanic shop a super Walmart, one of the mechanic shops.

THERAPIST: Oh, yea.

CLIENT: Because that was the only work...

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: ...in the middle of nowhere Nebraska. There's no work for a trained engineer in like (inaudible at 0:05:01). I don't even know the name of his town. But...

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: ...it's a small one. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And then he finally got a job working in his field again. And now he's trying to get a real job again. So he put up...

THERAPIST: Yea. Will he move back here or...

CLIENT: Yea, either here or somewhere with a job market.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But anyway, he's been bugging me to ask my boss about the status of his application. And I noticed yesterday that my boss had sent the job description that my friend applied for out to the job mailing list. So and then like so my friend noticed this also. And he sent me five panic e-mails asking what's going on.

THERAPIST: Your friend?

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Right. I see because he would have seen it in the e-mail, like you said, yea.

CLIENT: So I sent my boss an e-mail because I just didn't have time to catch him alone to talk to him. [0:06:02] He was really busy and then he took off to get to the dentist. So I sent him an e-mail that just said basically, "Hey, I hope the dentist visit went OK. My friend sent you this thing and the day before you left on vacation. And he just pinged me to ask if I knew your thoughts on his application."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: "Is there anything that you want me to tell him."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And I said, "Also, I've heard from two students that I've forwarded the the job description to..."

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: "...who said they thought they weren't qualified. And I told them don't feel (inaudible at 0:06:30) to just send their application and let you decide."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Just so because he had sent me an e-mail saying, "Yea, can you forward this to your former students."

THERAPIST: I see, yea.

CLIENT: So I kind of crammed a bunch of fill this requisition stuff in the same e-mail.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But my boss never replied. And it's probably because he was at the dentist and then didn't want to deal with working e-mail.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But now I'm feeling super paranoid that I've violated some unspoken rule about etiquette and I shouldn't have asked on behalf of my friend. And everything is terrible and I've convinced myself that I'm going to be fired any minute now. [0:07:03] That's probably irrational.

THERAPIST: Yep. I imagine it feels pretty awful. But yes, I'm sure it's not true. (pause) [0:07:57] I imagine your terrified that you're beginning that workplace cycle that's happened before. Where somebody says something about your output and it sends you into a tailspin which...

CLIENT: Actually, that's a good word for it.

THERAPIST: ...which sort of drastically worsens the problem and sort of eventually ends the employment altogether. (pause) [0:09:00]

CLIENT: And I mean partially from the outside the answer seems blindly simple. Just don't open Twitter or Facebook at work. But it's usually hard not to do that.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: I feel almost like it's an addiction. (pause)

THERAPIST: Well, I think part of the temptation with you with this sort of problem and I may not be very clear about this. It may take me a little while to fumble it through what I mean. [0:10:10] But the temptation is sort of to stay outside of the problem rather than to be inside it to find some kind of external solution.

Like well, don't go on Twitter or Facebook anymore. Or try to keep in mind that sort of there is nothing to fear but fear itself. Like there's nothing that's going to make you depressed except being depressed about what's happening. And that's going to make things worse so just kind of blah, blah, blah. Or do X, Y or Z to keep focused. But it's all kind of like outside the problem, in a way, if that makes sense. (pause) [0:11:00] Yea, I imagine, inside, you're quite convinced that this is all going to crash and burn in the near future.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: And that there you're completely helpless to stop it. That you're kind of in a free fall and nothing to be done.

CLIENT: I mean, I feel both. Like I'm completely hopeless to stop it and like it's all my fault, right? So which kind of seems contradictory, to me, that I'm helpless but...

THERAPIST: I take your point, I think, yea. (pause) [0:12:00]

CLIENT: I'm super upset about the deal with my friend applying for the job in my group because I felt duly pressured by him to tell it to my boss. And I really didn't want to ask my boss about his job application. [0:13:04] And I'm just there are two stories that this reminds me of. The way I feel about talking to my boss and waiting for him to respond. The first is about three years ago, Dave applied for a job at a company founded and run by a close friend of mine ex-boyfriend of mine because I don't remember. It was just too small.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But anyways, so he sent Timothy his resume. And I told Timothy that Dave was going to send him his resume. And Timothy said, "That's great. Dave is a smart guy. And I heard this talk he gave at this conference a year ago. And I'm interested in looking at his resume." And once he actually got the resume, I guess he had changed his mind.

But anyway, three weeks went by. And so IMed Timothy and said, "I'm just curious, did you get Dave's resume? What'd you think of it?" And he was like, "Yea, this is really awkward. Usually I wouldn't disclose this and I don't know what to say. I mean, he put me in a really awkward situation. But after we saw his resume, we decided not to follow up." [0:14:10] So I mean, I guess they saw something they didn't like on the resume. And I don't know, whatever. But he made it pretty clear that I shouldn't have asked.

And then way back when I was in high school, I was on the debate team. I was on the debate team because of stupid reasons. My debate coach only did Cross-X debates. And she only let kids join the Cross-X debate team...

THERAPIST: All right, what does Cross-X mean?

CLIENT: There are two styles of high school debate.

THERAPIST: OK.

CLIENT: One is one-on-one. It's a shorter form and you're mostly debating kind of ethics and values and philosophy. And Cross-X debate is team debate. It's two-on-two. It's much longer and you're debating policies. [0:15:02]

THERAPIST: OK.

CLIENT: So as opposed to the ethics of well, the question we got in debate was, is the death penalty just? And so you had to talk about the nature of justice and what purpose is the (inaudible at 0:15:17). A typical Cross-X question would be, how should education policy be less vigorously (ph) formed which is much more...

THERAPIST: Right, policy, OK.

CLIENT: How much money do we have? What are the tax implications? Yea.

THERAPIST: I see, politics, yea.

CLIENT: Anyway, Cross-X debate is a much higher prestige in the high school forensics world. And our coach did Cross-X debate. And she only let kids join the debate team if their parents were willing to pony up for an eight week intensive debate camp every summer.

THERAPIST: Yikes.

CLIENT: And my parents said no because they didn't want me home away from home for eight weeks and because they're cheap bastards. Because I mean and it was pricey because it was well within what my parents could afford at the time.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I mean, my dad was making fucking $300,000 a year. He could afford...

THERAPIST: Right. He could afford debate camp.

CLIENT: ...a four grand debate camp which I realize not all parents can.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But my parents could.

THERAPIST: But yours could. [0:16:06]

CLIENT: But anyway, they refused. But then they complained to the school board and kind of forced our debate coach to coach debates. So I did debate and my coach hated it. And she resented me for it and I was the only one. And she trained me the way she would train a Cross-X debater. And so I went into these debates arguing like a Cross-X debater.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And...

THERAPIST: It didn't go well.

CLIENT: I did not succeed. I did not win which made my coach and my parent unhappy. But anyway, one year through fluke or luck or just I picked something up from listening to other debaters I made it to the state championships. And I was my ass handed to me. And I had no idea what was wrong. So my coach said, "You have friends from..." I can't remember the name of the school now but one of the really rich suburbs. "So you have friends from this school. Why don't you go ask them if you can see their flow charts."

So "flows" is a technical term in debate. [0:17:08] It's the word they use for the notes that the debater takes during the debate on what they said and what their opponent said. And there's a very stylized way to do it. And anyway, so my coach said, "Go ask your friend for his flows." So I went to my friend and said, "Can I see your flows? I'm up against this guy from a third school and I know you debated him last round."

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: "And can I see?" And he flipped his lid. And then his coach came over and yelled at me. And told me that that was absolutely a breach of etiquette. And they can't believe I asked that. And his coach said that he was instructing his students not to speak to me at tournaments anymore. And it was just...

THERAPIST: Yikes.

CLIENT: ...horribly humiliating.

THERAPIST: Of course.

CLIENT: And I had no idea.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Because in the Cross-X world, if you have a friend on another team, you swap your flows all the time.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: There's just a different.

THERAPIST: Yep. (inaudible at 0:17:57).

CLIENT: Yea. And that's kind of how I feel now. And it's kind of a shitty feeling. And I don't even know if I've violated any unspoken office etiquette. [0:18:08] But I'm afraid I did. (pause)

THERAPIST: I think you have the idea that sort of what's going on for you or how you happen to see things will not matter in the slightest bit to anyone else. [0:19:23] And I mean, when push comes to shove, let's say. And that, therefore well, let me just stop there for now.

CLIENT: I mean, why should how I feel matter to, say, my boss? I mean, he's not my friend. He's my boss. His interest in me is, how can I contribute to his team? [0:20:04]

THERAPIST: Because well (pause) I guess there's a sort of a few ways I can answer that. Let me start with this one. For one, you're both human beings. Yea. So at some level, what's going on should matter somewhat to him. I mean, yea.

This other way might answer it too such as there are lots of reasons that the manager, I could imagine, what's going on with one of your employees is sort of very important to know if you want them to do their jobs well. I mean, the ways he could treat you or approach you based on what he knows about how you feel or what you think or where you're coming from could make a tremendous difference in how well you can work. I mean, that's what happened this week. But I like the first answer too. I mean, about human beings.

CLIENT: But...

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: ...there are lots of human beings and...

THERAPIST: There are.

CLIENT: ...I don't care about the vast majority of them in any kind of personal sense. I mean, I can't. No one can. [0:22:01] I'd be overwhelmed.

THERAPIST: But you sometimes do more or less about the ones who are around. I mean, I don't you have anything to say. But I imagine what's going on inside that people around you like in your group of the ones you, more or less, like matters. If somebody had a death in the family, if somebody just found out they had cancer. If somebody yea, that would impact you, I would think. I mean, if it may not change your life. Or, I mean, that you would have absolutely no expectations of it at work at all.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But they would register with you, I would think. I mean, that's what I would think. I would know I know because I mean, men don't think like that. [0:23:00] (pause) Why are you so sure it doesn't matter or it shouldn't matter? That your boss is poking fun of you. Sort of seeing you as like an input/output machine.

CLIENT: I don't know why it seems obvious to me that that's the way things are. That as much as possible, people's personal lives should be segregated from work. [0:24:05] (pause) I can just hear my dad's voice in my head saying, "You're not there to make friends. You're there to do a job." He said that to me after my first internship. He was still in the military. And so he drove me to and from work because heaven forbid, you let your 17 year old kid drive themselves anywhere. [0:25:06]

But I made friends with one of the second lieutenants who was just out of college. So I mean, I don't know if it was skeevy on his part or not. I mean, it might have been a17 year old girl and a 22 year old man. But from my perspective, it just felt like a friendship. And we went out to lunch one day and he drove me to this restaurant. And my dad happened to be at that restaurant. And he flipped his lid and came up and started cursing out this young...

THERAPIST: Oh my God.

CLIENT: ...airman. And of course, my dad was six ranks above him. And so it was very bad for him and he got a demerit from his boss for fraternizing with an officer's daughter. And it was just I was like, "Why did you do that? He was my friend. We were just having lunch."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: "And talking about my research project that he is tangentially related to." And my dad just, "You're there to do a job. Not to make friends. You shouldn't socialize at work." [0:26:04] (pause) You're smirking.

THERAPIST: Yea, I was smirking because I was thinking like on my work. Life doesn't work like that. But that's why I was laughing. I just kind of thought it was sort of ironic. Not exactly what you said. (pause) [0:27:00]

Well, I think that's a pretty that must be a very terrible world to be living in. Especially when you're feeling depressed. [0:28:03] The world in which your just out at your job. Not to make friends. Not to care what's going on with anybody else. Not to have them pay any attention or care what you may feel. That strikes me as quite depressing. And (inaudible at 0:28:40)...

CLIENT: Not as depressing as wanting to make friend and not getting invited to lunch when all the other 20-somethings are going out to lunch together and sitting alone in the cafeteria. It's much easier to remind yourself that you're not there to make friends. And it doesn't matter if no one invites you to lunch. [0:29:01]

THERAPIST: Is that what's going on?

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Well, the person who's in the cube next to mine and the person on the other side of my cube wall and the person kaddy-corner to me go out to lunch together two or three days a week. And they usually stop right in front of my cube to discuss where they're going. And no one has ever invited me.

THERAPIST: And I'm so sorry to hear that. That's just terrible.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 0:29:29).

THERAPIST: I honestly don't care what you say to yourself. But I'm sure it clearly can't make you feel that much better. I mean...

CLIENT: I mean, they're all they're friends outside of work. And they all share a hobby that I don't share. They're all into the whole mud running thing which is just mud running, you don't seem to -so apparently races and marathon race are not hard core enough for a certain class of (inaudible at 0:29:53) athlete.

THERAPIST: OK.

CLIENT: And so there's these mud running races where you're racing obstacle courses. [0:30:00] So you're crawling under electrified wire through the mud. And then running these staircases and going across monkey bars before you hit the straightaway where do you real leg race. It's incredibly challenging and also incredibly dangerous and...

THERAPIST: There's a lot of mud.

CLIENT: And you get dirty and you have to be in excellent shape. And even when I was in far better physical condition and actually was running and running races, I had no interest in mud running because why? I mean, really, why? Like crawling on your belly under electrified wire. And yes, yes, the voltage is low enough that it will only shock you and not actually hurt you. And just enough to remind you that hey, I'm crawling under electrified wire and slow you down. But still that's not my idea of a good time. And anyway, they participate in these races together. And they're good friends. [0:31:01] And it they just so happen to all be clustered right around my cube. And yea.

THERAPIST: And you don't have other people that you usually go to lunch with. Ouch.

CLIENT: I mean, the person I'm closest friends with at work plays bridge every day at lunch in the cafeteria. And he has invited me to play bridge with them but I don't know how to play bridge. And I don't like the other bridge players. (chuckling) And then...

THERAPIST: Do you want to play bridge?

CLIENT: Not particularly.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: I know the other people who I have cordial working relationships with. One guy goes out to lunch with his wife every day. She's works nearby so that's out. [0:32:02] And Jamie (ph) usually eats lunch with a bunch of other guys who have 10 to 12 year old kids. And they talk about their kids the whole time. And that's really...

THERAPIST: Exclusive.

CLIENT: I'm the odd one out in that conversation.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: So yea, there's really but I have my Kindle and that's an hour where I can read my book guilt free. And not worry about I'm being distracted when I should be working because it's my lunch break. And read my book. Get on Twitter. Get on Facebook.

THERAPIST: Like doesn't sound good and there's nothing wrong with doing that to the extent that that's what you want to be doing. But I think that sounds like hell to be all so socially excluded. Even if in some ways it's not literally what's going on. [0:33:10] I pretty strongly suspect it feels exactly like that. And hurts and also really pisses you off.

CLIENT: I don't know that I'm pissed off so much as...

THERAPIST: Anyone who talks about mud running the way you talked about mud running sounds pissed. (chuckling) I mean, I'm no fan of mud running. I never heard of it. But I don't know. I'm sorry. I don't mean to just like be sort of teasing or tricking you here. But to me, you spoke about mud running with a fair amount of bitterness which I which if that's true it would make all the sense in the world. [0:34:10] So perhaps I'd say I misheard you but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

CLIENT: I mean, I think I am bitter but not about mud running in particularly. But about the that whole other separate issue of body image and physical fitness. And a bunch of my coworkers are very, very fit, you know what I mean. They do these mud running races. And there's one guy who's a marathoner and I am not physically fit. And I feel both judged by others and judgmental of myself for it.

THERAPIST: Sure. I mean, that makes sense in a lot of other things you've said. But so what you're saying is that your feelings towards mud running relate as much to that. I imagined coming as on the heels of they are excluding you every fucking day. [0:35:12]

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: That you were upset about that and angry about that. But maybe I'm kind of making the wrong connection. Does that seem...

CLIENT: Yea. I think yea, it has more to do with...

THERAPIST: OK. Fine. I mean, I would not easily let go of you sounding bitter about it. But I am much more willing to say it's because of sort of fitness and body image stuff which you made very clear to me before than it's about being excluded by them. Although, I think you also do. I mean, you're kind of upset about it.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: I mean, I imagine like...

CLIENT: I don't know. Being excluded at lunch is not a new thing for me. [0:36:00] That has been the state of my existence since kindergarten.

THERAPIST: That makes it worse, I think, even if it's really familiar. (pause) I mean, just because of a lot of things you've said, that's just fucking awful. I'm not saying you're don't sort of cope well in certain ways or make the best of it in certain ways or whatever. I think it's fucking awful.

CLIENT: Sure. But what can I do about it? [0:37:02]

THERAPIST: At the moment, I don't really care. I'm not saying it's not an important question. But I think you're asking me it's because it's so painful to feel it which of course it is. (pause) [0:38:00] I guess part of what you're saying is that you had these ways of coping with like feeling alone at work such as, are there other things that you like to do. [0:39:28] Or thinking about work as a place that's not about being social. (pause) [0:40:00]

I guess the thing of it is, I think, I don't about know about you specifically. It may be different for other people work absolutely is an important and intensely social environment. I think you're pretty sensitive to not be unaffected by the social dimension of things at work. How you're being treated. How included you feel or how good about things in this aspect. I don't think you want it to be that way or blah, blah, blah. [0:41:05] I guess my impression that it kind of is that way. But perhaps you disagree? I don't know.

CLIENT: Well, I don't disagree. I wish it wasn't that way. But...

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: My company even recognizes that the who you go to lunch with thing is important because it's in the official guidelines for mentors of new employees.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: That you're supposed to eat lunch with your mentee at least once a week. And of course, my mentor didn't do that because he plays bridge and he's unwilling to give up his daily bridge game. So...

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But the guidelines say you're supposed to invite your mentee to lunch once a week. And go to lunch with your mentee and other people the groups so that your mentee can develop relationships. And (chuckling) my mentor kind of fell down on the job there.

THERAPIST: Yea. [0:42:06] And...

CLIENT: I mean...

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: I don't want to be too critical of him because he is probably the most similar to me, culturally, of anyone in our group. And we get along great. But he's also something of a loner except for his bridge game which I have to give him credit. He invited me to and offered to teach me how to play bridge.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And just when the offer was made, I was still I was spending three or four hours a day with him.

THERAPIST: Yea. I see how that's different.

CLIENT: ...in teaching me all of our tool sets. I mean, ramping up and I was like, "This is we probably both need a break from each other." So...

THERAPIST: Yea. I guess I do think things related to this have an effect on your performance there and your social life. And maybe it's no surprise now that I circle back and think of it that the things you're addicted to are precisely Facebook and Twitter. [0:43:09]

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Yea, I think you're a pretty social person.

CLIENT: But plagued with anxiety about socializing with other people...

THERAPIST: I know.

CLIENT: ...that makes it difficult.

THERAPIST: I know. Absolutely. I'm saying I think it's very hard. I don't disagree with any of that.

CLIENT: It's ever since I was a little, little kid like preschool age...

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: ...my parents told me, "Oh, you're so shy. You're such an introvert. You don't like other people. You have no friends." And I think it was only like two or three years ago that I realized that if you look at the actual definitions of introvert and extrovert and whether being with other people makes you feel drained or gives you more energy. I really enjoy being with other people. [0:44:11] I don't enjoy being alone. I'm not actually an introvert. I'm an extrovert plagued with crippling social anxiety.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: Which kind of sucks. I think it would be easier if I were actually an introvert.

THERAPIST: I think so too. I think what they said is complete bullshit.

CLIENT: I mean...

THERAPIST: It could have been true about someone else but it sure as hell ain't true about you.

CLIENT: And also like in general, I find making statements about overarching personality of a four year old is kind of dumb because four year olds can't really communicate what they want all that well.

THERAPIST: We should stop for now if that's fine with you.

CLIENT: Yep. That today is the last day you can bill Blue Cross Blue Shield.

THERAPIST: OK. Gotcha. [0:45:02]

CLIENT: All right. Blue Cross Blue Shield runs out for me tomorrow so...

THERAPIST: Yea. I had meant to say so. I'll at least start out billing your – what is it?

CLIENT: [inaudible].

THERAPIST: [inaudible], OK. Yea, just send me the info. I'll start out billing them. And then if for logistical reasons they make that very difficult, I may turn it to you. But I'll at least give it a go.

CLIENT: OK. I still haven't been told by my company if I can sign up for it. But their HR is confused as to whether Dave lost his job or his job changed his plan on him.

THERAPIST: OK.

CLIENT: And they haven't replied to the documentation I sent the thing. Well, actually his old job fired him just because he had an [operant hand] (ph) ten minutes later doesn't mean he wasn't.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So there's just a whole it's not up in enrollment. And does this qualify as a life event? So it might be a couple of weeks before I know whether I'll be on it or Dave's plan, which is Cigna which is twice as expensive and half as good.

THERAPIST: OK. Yea, just keep me posted. I'll wait to bill.

CLIENT: All right, thanks.

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: I think it's you can bill within...

END TRANSCRIPT