TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Hi. How long's it been? Three weeks? Really?

THERAPIST: Well we missed two so -

CLIENT: Okay, great. Yeah. Well, so I went to Dublin. Why did I miss the other time? I don't remember.

THERAPIST: Chicago.

CLIENT: Chicago. I'll think of it. Oh, the bar mitzvah. So that was good. Everything was fine. It was just a busy week. I mean like running around and stuff. I'd like your (unclear) to stop. First of all I have some neck pain right now that's like making it so that it hurts if I turn my neck too much like this way and it's also been causing a bit of a headache on this side of my head and then it's also kind of concerning because that's the side of my head that got hit when I fell. So I'm going to go into the doctor's office today because it's been a few days already that I have this neck pain. And so it could be that so I went to Dublin and it was also like four days. A lot of it was family stuff with the bar mitzvah that we were going for and I was sleeping in like an uncomfortable single bed for the whole time and then the plane ride and stuff. Obviously, we were in coach. So maybe that has to do with it.

I got back on Tuesday night and then I've been at work since Wednesday afternoon and then I'm going to Chicago tomorrow because I haven't seen Nora and stuff in a really long time. And then next weekend so before I was getting on the plane to Dublin I got an e-mail. I had applied a while, I guess back for a position at University of Houston and I hadn't heard anything about it yet so I e-mailed to check in and the HR person told me that I should me that I should just e-mail the hiring manager so I did. And I also e-mailed that woman to tell her that I was just checking in and she e-mailed me back copying her assistant and somebody else whom I hadn't known who e-mailed me before saying, 'when are you going to be making a trip to Houston? Let me know so I can meet you.' [00:02:27]

Then when I was waiting for the plane for Dublin I got an e-mail from the woman who's the hiring manager for the position I had applied for and she was asking for an interview either the following day or this week. So I let her know I was traveling and that I couldn't do it but that I would be available starting on Wednesday. And I e-mailed her when I got into work on Wednesday and she e-mailed me right back asking if I could talk at 3 pm or 3 pm yesterday so I chose the following day, which was yesterday at this point. So and in the meantime at the bar mitzvah, my brother's bar mitzvah, my aunt had said oh, well you know, so we're going to Houston for Passover. We're spending the whole Passover week. Like 10 days she spending. And honestly, like there's a couple of other people that I know, well, just like not know like who are members and who I was friends with from synagogue and another person whom I know from high school who are also going to Houston for Passover for the whole time and I was like it's kind of genius actually that if you're going to anywhere and not eating bread and stuff, it may as well be Houston. Like, who cares? But anyway, so my aunt was saying how she really wanted me to come for Passover and at least spend like the second day of Passover, or like (unclear) the whole week and I explained that I couldn't because I'm going to Brazil the first week of April to go scout all the places for the event in May. Did I ever tell you this?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: This was developed in the in between (unclear).

THERAPIST: Like this is not actually going to be actually in Brazil?

CLIENT: Yeah. Because we decided that it was just too difficult to do everything from a distance in terms of planning for the event.

THERAPIST: So you're leaving that week?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Well, and next week also.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Well, because it's so my aunt wanted me and so I explained I couldn't because I had a lot of events that week and I was going to be out the following week. So I couldn't. [00:04:25]

THERAPIST: Okay. I'm just going to write it down while we're -

CLIENT: Yeah, that's fine. So March 29th is a no and so is April 5th.

(Pause): [00:04:34 00:04:37]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So both the following next two Fridays.

THERAPIST: 3/29 and 4/5.

CLIENT: So then I got an e-mail -

THERAPIST: I'm sorry, you're back on the 12th?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Correct. Assuming yeah. Yeah. So then -

THERAPIST: As far as you know.

CLIENT: Right. So then I got an e-mail from my director saying that we have Good Friday off which I'd forgotten that she closes the office that day and she says like either you can come in and work and use that day another day or you can just not be coming in. And I was like, 'hmm.' Well, maybe I should see about going to Houston that weekend after all and go back Friday like leave in the morning, go back Friday because my aunt is going to be like my cousins are going to be down there. I'd have a free place to stay and it would be an opportunity to meet with the manager and also possibly offer a second interview for this job that I interview on the phone yesterday for. My father said, 'yes,' I should do it that it's a good investment.

THERAPIST: This weekend is -

CLIENT: Next weekend. The 29th.

THERAPIST: Okay. So that's where you're going next week.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So my dad was like, 'yeah, that's a good idea.' And my aunt was like a different idea because at the very least, even if I don't get a second interview I can (unclear) Marjorie Drew (sp?) on Friday and I have all day Friday and Saturday but this is why it's so crazy, like I'm a crazy person, but doing it anyway because -okay well, I'll tell you my thought process after. But, so my plane to Brazil leaves on the 31st at 6:40 pm out of Boston. I called to see how much it would cost to change it to just go from Houston but it's more money than it would cost to fly back and forth, so I'll fly back and forth. So I'm flying in two planes on Sunday the 31st.

THERAPIST: One up here from Houston and another one from here down to Brazil.

CLIENT: Right. Like a crazy person. But here's my thinking. Then I was like well first of all I was like, 'eh, maybe it's like not, like (unclear) Florida, right? But then I walked outside and I was like, 'man, who cares? Like it's two days in Houston like what the hell, like why wouldn't I want to do that? You know? Like it's hot there and it's cold here and my father says it's a good investment. So, I may as well do it. Okay. Then, okay, so that was all that. Then I had the interview yesterday on the phone and I think it went really well. [00:06:59]

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: I mean I think that all of these other interviews are practice and I think the one's that I've had before like were good but I didn't do as well as I felt like I did on this one and it was (unclear) over the phone as opposed to Skype which the other one whatever. So she was very relaxed. It wasn't like very structured. You know, she just wanted to tell me a little bit about the position and hear about my experience and it was great because she was describing what they are looking for. So the woman that I spoke to and another one who works in the office are both lawyers. And what the assistant director the position would be managing, basically I'm still a little bit unclear, but basically I think it's the group of people that give continuously and manage various lunches for them, cocktail parties like happen to give updates. [00:08:46]

Then there's an annual event that they're involved in for like all the advisors and everything. That's the luncheon on May 2nd and then there's also another annual event that like brings in area people that are also like have planned giving to the University of Houston. And you work with all the different factions so it's not only like development. It sounds really cool, actually. And it looks like what they're looking for is the qualities that she was describing in the person that they want were like everything that I was already going to highlight about myself and it was great because it gave me the opportunity to explain well this is great because it sounds like all these things that you're looking for somebody to have experience in. I have a great deal of experience in and am very competent and some of the things that I haven't done before, I'll have a better opportunity to learn those quickly because of the other items that I'm very comfortable with.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know? And I think that was a really good selling point. So, first of all I think it went well. She asked me about my relocation plans and I was just explaining like I wanted to live somewhere else and Houston would be a good place because of my language and because of my interest in the culture and wanting to stay within the university as there is a great deal of opportunity, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, 'oh, those are all good reasons.' And I think she just didn't want to hear like, 'oh, you know, it's warm.' And then she actually said like, 'oh, well, it's nice to hear other reasons that you want to move down here because a lot of the time that's what I would warn people that's what people don't necessarily think of when they think of relocating to Houston. So it's the love of the culture and the abundance of the language [00:10:37]

THERAPIST: (Cross talk) beaches.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. And I didn't feel worried like a lot of people are worried who are like, 'oh, my God, like nobody speaks English. Like I don't understand. Like I thought this would be a great place to live. I feel isolated.' You know. And so she was, 'oh, that's nice to hear that. That's what you're interested in because a lot of people might get scared off.' So like the kicker is that I think it feels like almost they may have made room for me like that they have me under their hiring process and they definitely want to make a decision very soon. They definitely would want a second person interview so I did offer the 29th. She said that she'll be out of the office but it's possible that if the second interviewer desires that her associate can do it, which would probably be a good move on their part anyway, a second opinion obviously, but maybe she would just want to meet with me, too. But I did offer to come a different time if they wanted, obviously to make myself available.

In the meantime I made an appointment. Marjorie Drew (sp?) can't meet with me. She'll be out that day. But the woman whom she had copied on the e-mail that I applied all to when I was like, 'oh I'm coming to Houston, do you have availability?' is like the person right below her the Director and (unclear) at the University of Houston. So she was like I'd be delighted to meet with you. So I have an appointment with her. [00:11:51]

THERAPIST: Great.

CLIENT: So that's great. And we'll see what happens with the interview. The kicker is that when I asked her when they're asking to sell it she said, 'maybe April,' because their May 2nd event is their big annual event and they want and I thought, 'oh, this sounds familiar from when I was getting this current job and they wanted me to see their May event. So that's a little bit nerve wracking just in terms of them objectively looking at who their candidates are and what is going to be the best decision and if that would, if, despite my experience and, you know, she even said herself, 'it sounds like your qualifications and your experience are what we would be looking for.' But despite that, it might make me less marketable the fact that I haven't started relocating yet. I'm still here. I'm still at my current job. But if not, of course there's a possibility of negotiating a start date where I might be able to still do the event in Brazil which is okay, this event is May 2nd. It's a one-day event in Houston. I would probably be going down to Brazil on May 6th is what we're thinking. So it's possible that and honestly that does make me like suggesting that or requesting that or trying to negotiate that or surrounding, starting with that, and also still facilitating a good end of the year with my current job and maybe even helping hire, would speak to my employability, I mean in the long run because they're seeing, 'well, okay, she doesn't want to leave her current job hanging and still wants to ' [00:13:32]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I feel like that maybe, her thing in April is because she has to say that. Like she wants to have the person as soon as possible but I think that there's a level of understanding well, sure, I mean it's going to be a new hire.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I'm nervous and excited to hear if they will want a second interview or if she will arrange for me to meet with her associate when I'm going to be down there which might I mean I would do if I were them, like if there were a possibility, like regardless. Like, just because, 'who cares?' Like you may as well meet me if I'm going to be there seeing that I am a candidate from up here and they did take the time to do the first interview, obviously. And the thing is, when I had e-mailed back the HR woman was like, 'I think towards the end of narrowing down our candidates I think you should e-mail the -'

THERAPIST: I think it's -

(Pause): [00:14:30 00:14:34]

THERAPIST: I think it's hard not to be at all in control of the process.

CLIENT: You mean, not to be?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Like I'm not. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I'm glad it went well. Because like it's exciting. It's a lot of things you want like being in Houston and they say in the interview that you've got a lot of experience that they're looking for. That's great. I guess a lot of what you're saying now, it sounds to me is geared towards -

(Pause): [00:15:00 00:15:06]

THERAPIST: Explaining why what makes sense for them proceed in this way.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Assuaging worries that you have about not being able to start in mid-April, which they would ideally want.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: You know, feeling anxious and not in control of the process. Which you are.

CLIENT: Yeah. And -

THERAPIST: But which I gather is very uncomfortable to feel.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: I mean I guess right. I mean it just speaks to the whole situation and then in an e-mail with my stepmother about, I was telling her how everything's going and everything, she said that she feels it's time that I let my current job know that I'm looking. And I don't know if I agree and, or how to approach that. Because I'm I don't know how to I won't put the cart before the horse, which I do anyway for myself like making all these assumptions about why they should call me and why they should second interview me and what they should do just to kind of because I'm stressed out about not knowing what's going on. And I'm worried about I don't know. Do you think what do you think? Do you think it's like I should start, I should tell them I'm looking at this point?

CLIENT: You know, I'm really -

THERAPIST: Because I've been like that with any other jobs that I have applied to that would necessarily warrant me being like, 'okay, things are really moving.' Like it's just this one job. And although it sounds like I'm a good candidate, I have no idea if this will come to fruition even with the second interview.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know, I really don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean, some other I value her advice because she has worked in universities. She's worked, like she's worked in universities her whole career so she's it's not like she's coming from some other profession.

THERAPIST: I know that's what you said. Yeah. [00:17:08]

CLIENT: But I'm not sure how I would approach. And I mean she's saying that I'm looking, like not like, 'oh, by the way I have these interviews and blah, blah, blah,' necessarily. And then the other thing about it was maybe trying to talk to my former supervisor who has been helpful on this kind of stuff before but I'd of course have to ask him if he's comfortable talking to me about something job related because it's obviously a conflict of interest because of his stake in the center being kind of a lifer as we call them.

THERAPIST: So he's somebody there now who used to supervise you.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Do you know somebody in HR?

CLIENT: Yeah. And the other thing I thought of was talking to about HR was this consulting guy that I've been talking to a lot since last summer. But again, it's a conflict of interest thing. His a stake in the university is greater than his stake in me, personally. Not to say that he couldn't act as a mentor type.

THERAPIST: Well, but -

(Pause): [00:18:02 00:18:09]

CLIENT: I mean if I got some advice on applying to other jobs and I felt perfectly comfortable doing that.

THERAPIST: Right. (Pause) Yeah, I don't know what the -

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: What would be the (unclear) thing to do?

CLIENT: Right. I mean -

THERAPIST: Yeah, I know.

(Pause): [00:18:35 00:18:48]

CLIENT: I mean I hate waiting. Like it's really anxiety provoking. I wish they would just be like, 'okay, we actually want a second interview,' and figure out a date because it's I don't know. Or, but then I would still have to wait. Well, no but she kind of implied that they want to do a second interview, they would definitely want a second interview and then they would make their decision quickly. I have no idea how many candidates she would consider second interviewing. I know personally, I would only do two or maybe even one when I was hiring.

(Pause): [00:19:30 00:20:47]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess I'm trying to like get a sense. I think the waiting and the lack of control you have over what's going to happen is really pretty wrenching for you. I mean most people would be kind of nervous waiting to hear but I think there's more than like I think it's pretty considerable for you and -

CLIENT: Because this is like a relocation thing, too. It's not just like, okay, I'm waiting to hear back from a job where I would just be going to a different address like from one I go to now. It's like okay then, I'm packing and doing all this stuff that I already was stressed about and so it just becomes that much more present because what if they would want me so quickly and all this stuff. I don't know which I guess they should have I mean I don't know why it would come as a surprise if I were applying for a job now that somebody would want me within a few weeks of making an offer. You know?

THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].

CLIENT: But right, it's really (yawns) it could be a little bit better, you know.

THERAPIST: But even so I think it's a little bit telling that you're I think the one you mention, the one coming out was like, "packing." You know like, 'oh my God, I've got to get to my room so I can I've got to pack.'

CLIENT: You're right. Like where am I going to put all my stuff? And I have to find an apartment. Like do I have to get new furniture and is my car going to drive down there?

THERAPIST: I mean as opposed to like, 'oh my gosh, am I going to be leaving all my friends here?' Or -

CLIENT: I know.

THERAPIST: The ways it would be different in Houston or, 'wow.'

CLIENT: But I'm not really worried about those things.

THERAPIST: I can't believe I'd actually be moving. I guess not. I mean clearly what you're worried about is packing.

CLIENT: Logistical bullshit.

THERAPIST: Logistical things. (Unclear).

CLIENT: Because I guess I feel like, 'yeah, of course, I think about leaving my friends, my family, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But like, they're always going to be here and they'll come and visit. I mean, I'm just not as anxious about it. I guess I just feel more like I'm more worried about getting more settled with an apartment and with a job and because then, like once I've settled with all that stuff I can just go out and do and meet people and do activities and do meet up groups and you know, all this other like get more excited about all this stuff that's like more difficult and requires me to do a lot of stuff alone and spend money and all that crap.

THERAPIST: When you were growing up and when you're mom was drinking, like was she like considerably failing to kind of run the house? [00:23:51]

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Like, (unclear).

CLIENT: I mean like at a certain point I did my own dishes and made my own food rather than her making whatever she wanted and do my own laundry and whatever. So like maybe -

THERAPIST: And at about what point?

CLIENT: Like 11, 12. Like normal like normal.

THERAPIST: Totally young.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: All my friends were. Or maybe not. Yeah, not the laundry and stuff actually. Also my friends with married parents didn't. They might my single-parent friends did a little bit more -

THERAPIST: Yeah. Sure, absolutely. And you know, getting yourself a sandwich while you're watching TV is one thing.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But, I don't know if -

CLIENT: No, I usually cooked myself meals at home. I'm not sure, maybe she was working. I don't or not working. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And then like doing my own laundry and stuff, I guess. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, like 12, 13 is on the younger end there but it's not like nine.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah, I know, I mean my brother doesn't do his own laundry or anything like that but right, but it's not like nine, but -

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Like yeah, I think definitely it added to my I don't know, whatever.

THERAPIST: I just wondered like there's something about you feeling like you have all these logistics and they're all on you.

CLIENT: Right. [00:25:37]

THERAPIST: That seems kind of relevant.

CLIENT: Well, but they are. Like, who else is going to do it? I guess. Like I don't have help, obviously.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I know like I know that they are but -

(Pause): [00:25:54 00:26:00]

THERAPIST: I guess that to me it feels a little sort of striking, like it figures that you know with all this, the thing you're most worried about is like packing and organizing logistics and waiting to hear about the possible like the second interview.

CLIENT: Um hmm [yes].

THERAPIST: And again, even there the logistics and the details and the sort of being able to guess where they're coming from, you know, like have it nailed down. That's the feeling that you want it all nailed down it's all me nailing it down. No one else is going to nail it down.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: So I guess that is sort of that feel that when you ask about whether this was something that was either very chaotic or that you were kind of precociously on your own kind of (unclear) (cross talk).

CLIENT: I don't know. It doesn't, it didn't feel chaotic. I mean I definitely felt like there were times when I was kind of on my own to figure stuff out because maybe it was late at night and she had already drank or whatever.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I have talked to parents who were alcoholic or very depressed or whatever, you know, and it was like, 'yeah, I was pretty much getting myself loose in some other (unclear).

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like, no I had to get my mom out of bed in the morning at 7 o'clock to make sure she could get me to school.

CLIENT: Yeah, it wasn't chaotic.

THERAPIST: (Cross talk) referring to you but if it was more along those lines, often those (unclear) as they grow up and have a lot of trouble with some of the things that you're anxious about not what you're going to have trouble with. That you're anxious. [00:27:37]

CLIENT: Yeah, it's just anxiety about the unknown. Like the waiting, not knowing how much time I'll have for x,y,z and feeling anxious about my current job and do I tell them that I'm looking and how do I approach them and you know, having a closer relationship with my supervisor makes it that much more sensitive, I think. And I don't want to leave it waiting until the last minute and I'm also feeling anxiety about not that these people don't know that I have this thing coming up and do I tell them in the second interview or wait until I get an offer and kind of keep that card to myself until I, because I'm making myself marketable and I don't want to make myself less marketable. You know.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And that they're going to feel like I deceived them if I tell them after the fact. Well okay, great. I want to accept the offer but, you know, the start date or whatever, I don't know, it's all very anxiety-provoking for me and it's probably not helping with whatever I have going on here today that's giving me pain or whatever.

THERAPIST: You mean your neck.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:28:47 00:29:00]

CLIENT: So yeah.

THERAPIST: There's also something about how you're relating that to me. In fact I'm not sure I can put my finger on it but which to me sort of involves a sense of you sort of like spinning off in your anxiety over there worried about this, that and the other thing. And like I think it feels like I'm sort of like, talking to me I get the impression that you think I'm listening which I am. And like interested which I am. But there some feelings like when you talk about like you're very much on your own -

CLIENT: Well, because to a certain extent it's like all this stuff I'm talking about is like, 'ohh, like I know that you can't really, there's nothing that you're going to say that's like magic like all right. You know, like -

THERAPIST: I know. Let me explain about packing.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Here's what they generally do,

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: When it comes to a second interview, okay, here's now this is going to work.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Here's what they're going to tell you.

CLIENT: No, I'm certainly not -

THERAPIST: Of course. I'm not -

CLIENT: Anticipating that kind of -

THERAPIST: I know you're not.

CLIENT: I guess I just I don't know how to do it. (Pause) Like I don't know how to not keep those wheels turning, I guess, thinking about it.

THERAPIST: I think you, I think I probably more so than you see this as anxiety. I think you see it mostly as reality. I mean you're saying you're anxious and you're worked up about it but I don't think if I asked you if you were and you'd say, 'no.' But you're feeling, probably more so than mine, is like, 'well shit, Ethan, I got all this stuff and I don't know. (Unclear) So that's that. And (unclear) which I appreciate, like you've made your initial challenge to move down there quickly and of course you're anxiously waiting to find out what happens with that second interview. You know there are a couple of trips to Brazil in the next few months, which can't be very simple.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: So you know, I'm not totally unmindful of those things but -

(Pause): [00:31:32 00:31:46]

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

(Pause): [00:31:49 00:32:09]

CLIENT: Maybe talking, maybe in fact, trying to talk to this guy in HR would be helpful because I can find out a little bit about in his experience from both ends, like from the where I'm leaving and where I'm being made an offer and like how I might I don't know, but again this is all because I'm anxious inside and hoping that people will tell me something to make me less anxious.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Like give me the answer pre -

THERAPIST: You might be able to say, well, staying with that, if you had a second and usually it's in the second interview, but not before -

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: That's when you tell them like, somebody might say that. Like obviously somebody can't say, 'well, you'll definitely get a second interview because -

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But you can understand (unclear) that you could get some actual advice and answers to questions that would be helpful. And take the worry about that off of your shoulders.

CLIENT: Right.

({Pause): [00:33:05 00:33:17]

CLIENT: But I mean I'm just not like coming back from this like this like quick trip to Dublin, just like my job and everything being the same, boring and yeah, I'm going to Brazil but like I' don't know, I still don't it's all temporary. Like I know that if I don't like okay if I don't get this other job, this job I'm still trying after this whole event happens in May with Brazil and the whole thing, like I don't know. I'm just obviously speculating on like nothing.

(Pause): [00:33:50 00:33:54]

CLIENT: And then I'm like, 'oh, what if I get called for the interview for the job that I applied to here and then what if I take that and what if I'm miserable and what if I miss some other opportunity in Houston because I've taken this job here?' And all these what ifs are really not helpful for me to be worrying about but I worry about anyway.

(Pause): [00:34:12 00:34:32]

THERAPIST: I wonder if maybe we're going at this from the wrong angle. Like maybe part of what you want is for me to be excited for you and interested and engaged and -

CLIENT: Well, I don't think that you're not.

THERAPIST: The reason I wonder if it's something like the anxiety is a bit of an indirect bid to get me more engaged or more animated about like, 'oh my God,'

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like you're leaving in the next few days with this interview next week and you've got this travel here and you've got like travel -

CLIENT: No, but I don't think so.

THERAPIST: No? Okay. What is it that you don't particularly like about that idea?

CLIENT: No. No. Because I don't, like I guess I assume that you are inherently excited because like you hear about my life every day, or every week or whatever so I don't, I'm not, you know, I'm wouldn't be I would feel that way more about my parents.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: You know. Or whatever. Because I feel like they are or should like they're the ones, it's their job that they should get so excited and really enthusiastic. Which they have been, so I'm not -

THERAPIST: Well good.

CLIENT: So I'm not lacking. My dad's obviously supportive saying I should go to Houston and try to get an interview, blah, blah, blah. I don't know, it's just that I hate leaving I think and I'm just anxious and there's just a lot going on with like having the bar mitzvah and then Dublin and now I'm going to Chicago and then Houston and then Brazil and then and all this -

THERAPIST: You know (unclear) waiting in all this? It's like, 'oh, my God! (Unclear) he doesn't want to hear it.' Like this is -

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, totally. That's for sure. I mean I agree with some of (unclear) but they're more like all right we'll hear when you hear.

THERAPIST: Right. Well of course you're -

CLIENT: Right, right. Nobody -

THERAPIST: You could be moving to Houston in five weeks.

CLIENT: Right. Right.

THERAPIST: You don't know.

CLIENT: Right. Nobody is like, 'so did you hear anything today?'

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: My mom, hey, maybe she will.

THERAPIST: And you're probably like that in your head every five minutes. Like, did I get an e-mail?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Did I get an e-mail like yeah, what if I move? What if I move on the 15th? And you know I've got to arrange this with work now and this with work then and I'll keep my apartment and like -

CLIENT: Right.

(Pause): [00:37:02 00:37:15]

THERAPIST: It would make sense (unclear) with you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Because it is a roller coaster.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah with all this flying and interviews and then nothing.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And then something.

THERAPIST: Right. As you said, it's not just switching jobs and keeping where you live. It's your whole life. [00:37:27]

CLIENT: And I mean my feelings about here and then like being upset and feeling like abandoned and you know, whatever. Like, let's say, like you know they could say to me, 'I'm sorry, we can't, like we need you. Like if you want this job like you need to come. I don't know how in the long run I would do it I think. I think I would just do it. I'm not going to say no to that job. That would be stupid. But, I would just feel really uncomfortable about the whole situation and have to explain I don't want to give up this job and I don't want to say I'm sorry like and of course then I would feel like, 'oh, I hope it hasn't burned bridges,' but I mean hopefully it wouldn't. Meanwhile, the job pays less than I get paid now. Which sucks but it's like typical. And I have free tuition for a masters so I like and it's far more than the other job that I had interviewed for there.

THERAPIST: What was the cost of living?

CLIENT: I don't know. Like I can't understand how that works. The relative cost of living is not really different. The apartments one bedroom apartments in areas that would be ideal for me because I don't want to live in the middle of East Bumfuck, like I'm young and single and I'd want to be someplace closer to stuff. About the same as here for a one bedroom. I mean like if I were to try to buy a condo then I'd be paying a lot less because I've seen places where I could be paying a mortgage of maybe $800 a month with like a condo fee of like $200 a month and that would be nicer and equally sized places. Some places are being priced at $1500 or $1700 in the same neighborhood in an apartment that I would be renting. So I think that that would also be a factor to think about just do a little sublet or like extended stay hotels for a few weeks and look for a condo and buy. Like, is that the way to do it or do I sign a full year lease for an expensive apartment? I have cats. I don't want to move into a bedroom in an existing house with people. And the one friend had said to me, 'well, maybe that would be good because you're new in the area and living with people.' But I just don't think it would make any sense just between the cats and not wanting to live with a roommate. I like having my furniture and all this stuff. I don't think it would be good. But the salary also affects the whole I mean it doesn't really affect my decision because the title is still a whole lot higher than I have now. I mean I am a coordinator right now and this would be assistant director. And the experience and it would be a great job. It would get me where I want to go so it's not so (unclear) can't be a factor in this particular position, like I can't say well, I can't take the job because it's not in the pay bracket that I would not want to be getting paid less.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: It's in the title bracket.

THERAPIST: Is it a lot less?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean the cap on the pay it's 52-something to like 58-something. And I get like 62 now.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: It's a little bit over 62 because finally the union and the university agreed so I got a 4% raise.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:41:22]

CLIENT: But I guess that's what salaries are looking like at the university level down there. I mean the coordinator positions down there, I get paid like $22 an hour and those positions are like top like $17.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: So, there's that. But I mean everybody's like yeah, but you expected that. You know, like it's Houston. Like the pay rate is lower. It's just is.

(Pause): [00:41:56 00:41:59]

CLIENT: And like even if I did find someplace cheaper that's a little bit outside the city, I'd be spending x-amount more on gas driving into work everyday, so what's the difference?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: If I'm driving 20 minutes instead of 10 every single day there and back like less money. And then every time I go out I'm driving back in. I would much rather live closer to where stuff is going on. But anyway. I mean people clearly do it. I mean if I didn't have as many bills, obviously it wouldn't be as more of an active issue. And my father at one point suggested that I sell my bed so that I wouldn't be paying monthly on it anymore and get something smaller because I have this huge king size bed that I'm still paying for and this furniture, blah, blah, blah. It's not like a bad idea but then I'd want to buy myself a new bed like it's still nice, so I'm not sure. But anyway, see, this is where all the angles, the logistics always like is all I think about. I just see moving I don't understand it, if you know that you want to give me a second interview just send me an e-mail and say okay I still want a second interview. And I also feel like that's how I felt when I was hiring. Like, okay, if I know I want to give you a second interview I'm just going to e-mail you and let you know that I want a second interview. You already told me you were at the end of your hiring process so I was probably the last person you were giving a first interview to or second to the last probably the last considering it was already Thursday and she had already e-mailed me the prior Thursday asking for an interview so it's already a week of other slots that she could have worked in. [00:43:50]

THERAPIST: You're really annoyed with them.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like why (unclear) reasonably.

CLIENT: Right. Get the show on the road. Right. This makes sense. You're a lawyer. This makes sense. You should know this makes sense. And also like again, it is annoying. Like, seize the opportunity. This girl's says she's going to be in Houston. Scoop up the chance to just bring her into the office and see how she walks. I don't care. Like, whatever.

(Pause): [00:44:24 00:44:30]

CLIENT: I mean on a side note -

THERAPIST: Idiots! I tell you idiots!

CLIENT: Right. That's what it feels like. Jeez, guys, if you know what's good for you kind of thing.

THERAPIST: (Laughing)

CLIENT: You know, obviously I have no idea.

THERAPIST: And that's also probably the opposite of in a way, you're actually feel. There in your little like (laughs) you know, like a very mild way, like a little sort of superior and kind of clearly more rational and more together -

CLIENT: In my head.

THERAPIST: In your head. Right. But I'm sure not having any control over it actually makes you feel small and confused.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: You know, like maybe I don't know. Like but as far as how you do with them, you know you know the way they should do this and you're wondering if they're not just doing it, actually doing what you think they should be doing. But then there's the part about you dealing with the worry, but really the unknown.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And I think you feel anything but sort of knowledgeable and in control and sort of rational about that.

CLIENT: Sure. I mean, yes.

THERAPIST: So, that's a lot for now.

CLIENT: Okay. So if you have any openings like this, do you want to let me know?

THERAPIST: Sure. But when are you going to be -

CLIENT: So I'll be away the 29th through the 5th. So do you have anything next week?

THERAPIST: Okay. Let's see. 'Could meet earlier next week.' Okay. I think I have let me double check. I think I have something Monday.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: At 4:30.

CLIENT: Okay, that would work.

THERAPIST: Should I make it? Okay. Let me I would plan on that and if I am like I'm 75% sure I can do it and if I can't I'll let you know today. Is that reasonable?

CLIENT: Yeah. Absolutely. Even if you let me know before the weekend or something.

THERAPIST: Okay. If you don't hear from me today, then assume that we're on, but -

CLIENT: For Monday at 4:30. Okay.

THERAPIST: Monday at 4:30. Yeah.

CLIENT: All right. Just let me know what' on.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Cool. Great. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you're welcome.

CLIENT: Have a great weekend.

THERAPIST: You too.

END TRANSCRIPT