TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: So, were you at the marathon?

THERAPIST: Sorry?

CLIENT: You were at the marathon?

THERAPIST: I was, but I was a couple of miles away from the finish.

CLIENT: Oh, good.

THERAPIST: Were you worried?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean I was on my way there. (laugh) I mean -

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:00:17]

THERAPIST: To the finish line?

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I hang out at the square all the time with friends and stuff you know, like at the, on the steps of the library and then, so. (laugh) [00:00:29]

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: But I guess that area is still cordoned off, you know.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Well a friend of mine was running but she was like a mile away.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: So (laugh) it was good for her that she was slow. (laugh) (long pause) I guess I was thinking about what you said last time, about feeling trapped, I guess like my mom. [00:01:51]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: So I was wondering like maybe that is like the root cause of like my depression or sadness or something. (laugh) (pause) I just fell so like I'm trying to understand what is the nature of my sadness and when do I feel sad and. I'm not sad as in like crying and stuff, that's fine at least at time you know I'm still engaged and I'm just emotionally saturated I suppose. But like depression is moving in as far as you don't want to get up and do anything and want to disengage. And you feel nothing or I don't know I just, I guess I'm trying to articulate those various feelings because I think there is a difference. (sigh) [00:03:13]

Like when I think of like driving through highways or like when I think of going to suburbs or like when I think of my time when I feel going grocery shopping with my mom and Chris. Or like spending an evening or thinking about those evenings that I did spend just with them. And like having dinner and the thought of them and then on these, that list that I just mentioned, like when I think of doing these things I feel completely like lashing out and screaming and saying no, I don't want to do any of those things. They're scary, and they're depressing and then the I guess I was trying to analyze those feelings. What that is, what that fear is. [00:04:34]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And I wonder if that's what it is, like the feeling is being trapped like my mom. Because, oh yeah, Chris and I were talking about the summer like we're subletting this place and stuff and we got into a fight (laugh) where I acted out or I'm going (laugh) [00:05:02]

THERAPIST: What does that mean?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: That you acted out, what does that mean?

CLIENT: Well I guess I'm making myself seem like a child. (laugh) What he called an outburst. Well I was just saying things to him, and it's you know an outburst and it's not like a discussion between two adults. Because I was just saying according to him, mean and nasty things. (laugh) [00:05:25]

THERAPIST: What were you saying to him?

CLIENT: Well I just kind of felt, and it was my feeling and it might not be completely accurate, but like, I felt like he was a that he always, (sigh) so like he a couple of months ago, like he said we have to buy tickets otherwise it will be expensive. So we bought well I just kind of let it go and I said okay, do what you want and I'll just you know, he bought a ticket for me and I just wrote him the check. (sigh) [00:06:02]

And now I feel like you know I'm just doing whatever is convenient for him and like, well like I feel like we should sublet the place because he, you know he's paying for it so he shouldn't suffer a loss and all this, but I'm not thinking about what would be convenient for me. What do I want to do in the summer and how the fact that just tagging along with him is going to be exactly the same. It's going to remind me that I associate that with you know that list that I just mentioned. [00:06:43]

So and you know like staying in the small town and I don't understand why he does his stuff there. His research there is going to make me depressed, you know. It's not going to be something that I want to do. So I didn't think about that, or I just, or I ignored it. And well this, I was, it was in the back of my head, all these things were in the back of my head, but I didn't say anything at that time because he was like well if you want to take this trip this summer, I was like fine, let's just do it. [00:07:19]

And I guess I was like I'm dealing with this later. But now it's when I view it as upset and scared. I just told him you only think about yourself, whatever's convenient for you. There's no one but my, what I want to do. You never think about that. (laugh) [00:07:36]

So anyway it's just, I don't know. (laugh) He didn't say anything and then we went to sleep. And in the morning he was like I'm very upset you know. I want to hit you. (laugh) But I didn't stay he was you know crazy in my face and like you know then he was like you're so cute, I can't hit you. (laugh) [00:07:56]

THERAPIST: But do you know what he meant by that? Or why did he want to hit you?

CLIENT: Well he said he's mad. He's like, like I'm mad. I don't know how to express my anger, but I'm mad. (laugh) I was like okay, how do you express it? You know, shout at me. You know, beat me. He was like, well I did that once and you didn't like it. (laugh) [00:08:18]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (laughing) So -

THERAPIST: When did he do that?

CLIENT: Well it's like last year. When things with his friend were going wrong. [00:08:29]

THERAPIST: And what happened?

CLIENT: Oh nothing, he got frustrated I think you know, and so. He just kind of shoved me or something.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: But -

THERAPIST: You don't want to talk about that?

CLIENT: No, it wasn't a thing really (laugh) It's not really psychologically effecting me I'm pretty sure. (laugh) (pause) I mean [00:08:59]

THERAPIST: It's interesting. It's interesting given your portrait of Chris though.

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: As someone who's emotionless and -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So forth.

CLIENT: And I was like one time in you know seven, eight years and something. It's nothing, it doesn't alter who he is. He's, you know the person this morning was like I'm angry, but I don't know what to do but I'm like (laughing) So that's who he is to the core, I think. But well yeah, I was thinking like I guess last time when I said, mentioned like I had a dream about lizards. And I do have this, I have this dream very, very often. But like that's what I (pause) well, today I was thinking about Nepal and worrying that oh no, am I going to be like stuck in this place for a month? [00:10:06]

That's what I think you know. That's, close the door on which I think. I don't think oh no, it's going to be a learning experience for me. Which it was the last time I was there. But it also caused me a lot of like anxiety. We were, we really were just kind of stuck. There weren't like (long pause) oh, it's weird. (laugh) It's his place, you know like, it's his parents' place in Bombay. [00:10:49]

And that's you know a whole lot better than his uncle's place in this way small town. But in both of his places you know, like I feel weird staying there. I feel not completely free. So (pause) (sigh) [00:11:13]

THERAPIST: What made you angry last night?

CLIENT: Well I just was feeling very anxious and like the window on all opportunity is closing and you know it's almost summer and I should redo the tickets. I should think about what to do and just feeling kind of like I can't really do anything. But I was thinking earlier that again like I wasn't seeing any choices. [00:11:48]

So that's why I felt scared that I was really dependent on Chris and there just being in Nepal, and then like. And then I realized after all (laugh) like a few hours then I guess I just will ask my mom to contact her sister and maybe I can stay with her. But I've really shut out of my family. Like they don't exist for me. But now I'm wondering like yes, I don't like them, but at least they're my family and they can't, I think, say no when I say I'm coming over. (laugh) [00:12:28]

THERAPIST: But it doesn't sound like you said to Chris I'm really anxious. It sounds like you were angry at him.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I conveyed only anger. I just still feel resentment I suppose. Like he has everything and I don't have (laugh) anything. And he's calling the shots and it makes me feel trapped and in a little, in a cage. And even this morning I was just kind of repulsed when he was like cradling my face and like you know. I was like yuck, you know get away you know (shush), I don't want this cuddling. (laugh) [00:13:16]

THERAPIST: What were you repulsed by?

CLIENT: The cuddling. I think it was like him holding and everything and like I couldn't breathe, I couldn't be (laugh) (pause) maybe that's why I walk so much. I walk like six miles every other day. [00:13:40]

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: On a normal week. (laugh) The last few weeks have not been normal.

THEAPIST: Do you just go for a walk, or do you walk somewhere?

CLIENT: Yeah, I just you know walk, start walking along the avenue and just do a big loop, stop at the square (laugh) and then turn back. (laugh) So [00:14:00]

THERAPIST: What do you feel like before the walk?

CLIENT: I don't know. Energized or anxious. (laugh)

THERAPIST: Well because you described it as sort of, you described being, feeling suffocated and then walked.

CLIENT: Well yeah. Yeah, I was suffocated. But you know we all kind of feel suffocated when once we've been in a room for a few hours. So [00:14:27]

THERAPIST: I don't think that's necessarily true.

CLIENT: Well I exaggerate I suppose. Like I don't feel it all the time like when I have to work obviously. And I'm think of my work and when I'm sitting thinking about other things, other times, other places. So I don't feel suffocated then, but sometimes yeah, I do feel suffocated like having, if I've been thinking about something that I would do like I'm tired, or you know Chris's been kind of, I feel like he's been coddling me or something. (laugh) [00:15:08]

THERAPIST: What did you find disgusting about it?

CLIENT: About what?

THERAPIST: You found the coddling disgusting.

CLIENT: No I said I was repulsed.

THERAPIST: Repulsed. Sorry, repulsed.

CLIENT: It just like I just didn't want it you know. Like I wanted to be on my own and I didn't feel like I wanted to lean on him. I guess I was repulsed by myself. And then it was just me believing, yeah, you know I was repulsed. Yuck. Here he had something that I didn't like about myself but I, you know, projected it on him. [00:15:53]

But him that like everything and I guess, and him needing to control me or if he was consciously (pause) But I guess I just felt I don't know, yeah. Kind of yuck . (laugh) (long pause) I didn't like that image I suppose. I don't like that image. [00:16:48]

I wanted to be strong and superior and you know attractive and, yeah. I wanted to be strong and superior and attractive and instead I was coddled and cute and lovable and likable (laugh) and not, you know formidable or vicious or bitchy. (laugh) And in control you know? [00:17:30]

And I was this little girl. (laugh) Who needs to be protected and her outbursts need to be chastised and disciplined and (laugh) yeah. I feel like you know for the past seven, eight years, that's how I've (sigh) got things, by being cute and likable. But really those kind of, I feel like people are putting me in a box when they see me as that. But when they see me as you know bitchy, I feel more confident (laugh) you know it's like oh, I think I did something right, you know. (laugh) [00:18:22]

Like this group that I'm part of, someone else was designing the logo and the banner and I was over that one. But in the e-mail print that was sent out I just kind of designed a logo and sent that. And the girl who was responsible, it wasn't in the back of my head that, am I stepping on her toes you know like then I did not treat myself. I said I don't care, I'm good at this. (laugh) I was a professional and I got paid for doing that. I'm not going to worry about her feelings. This is what I want to do. I love designing logos, so I'm just going to do that. [00:19:08]

So I felt good doing that. And the softer kinder me was like watch out, but you know the I don't know if that's the real me or not, but like the stronger me said well (laugh) I can't keep worrying about what people think all the time you know. [00:19:27]

THERPAIST: Umm.

CLIENT: This is a skill I have and that's going to be good for group. And if she has an issue, you know we'll take it up later. (laugh) But yeah, that's who I want to see myself as. Like making her own plans and being resourceful. And if I'm not resourceful, like that's when I feel like oh God, the walls are closing in and there's no other option but to be cute and disciplined and crawl back (laugh) you know into the box. [00:20:09]

That's what's prepared for me.

THERAPIST: Prepared for you by whom?

CLIENT: I guess Chris. (laugh) Or maybe myself. (laugh) It's my image and I guess because I worry so much about whether people like me or not that I have prepared this other kind of (sigh) side that says I really don't want to care about people. I'm so tired of caring about people you know. Caring what they think. (laugh) So I just kind of keep fighting with myself. (laugh) [00:21:00]

Well I guess it's exhausting. And I (pause) and I guess maybe that's what you know like last night or this morning, like that's what that trap is perhaps. And I keep comparing it with my mom, so I just was wondering like if like subconsciously that's what I have internalized, like maybe that's why I hate traveling on highways and going to the suburbs. Is maybe it reminds me of my mom. [00:21:44]

Just how like when my dad when he first come home. Like the first six years was just way bad. (laugh) So maybe I just have not got over them. And that baggage is just so heavy and it colors everything that, I mean it's debilitating right if I think of oh I want to go to Ohio, but then the thought of those four hours on the highway in a bus or driving by myself, they depress me. And you know that keeps me from living my life properly you know. (laugh) [00:22:24]

You know you hear people say oh we're going to go see the Mount Rushmore. I'm like oh my God you know, the suburbs. (laugh) You know. [00:22:35]

THERAPIST: The Mount Rushmore is in the suburbs?

CLIENT: Well you have to drive through them I imagine to get there. I mean your plane is not going to take you from D.C. Airport directly to the site of the canyons, right? (laugh)

THERAPIST: I imagine there's a lot of desert. I don't know if there is suburbs.

CLIENT: Well you know like, just highways and things. [00:22:59]

THERAPIST: Yeah. I guess we're just calling suburbs something different.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well I guess not suburbs, then just like I don't know, open country where I've never been. Where you know there's people that I don't know and people I imagine hate me. (laugh) So [00:23:24]

THERAPIST: Well I was thinking that one of the ways that you make yourself child like is by not seeing the impact you have on other people. Kind of minimizing that. I mean Chris is not someone who wants to punch people all the time. You don't describe him as someone who comes home, is enraged, I want to punch this person. It sounds like he's a very detached -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THEAPIST: And sort of emotionless. So for him to say something like I want to hit you. Clearly something inside of him is stirred up. That's not how he is. Some people want to hit people every hour. It's not really an event.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:23:55]

THERAPIST: But something that you did impacted. I'm not saying you're responsible for it. But impacted him in that way.

CLIENT: Yeah. I do do that. People have pointed that out to me and like I don't see how they, what my actions do to them. But I just cannot understand that allegation. (laugh) Or I mean it's probably accurate. I mean, yeah, I really don't see it. (laugh) [00:24:28]

THERAPIST: You don't see that you do that?

CLIENT: Yeah. No I wait what? (laugh)

THERAPIST: You don't think that that's true?

CLIENT: No I'm now I'm ready to believe that's true because enough people have said it.[00:24:41]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: But yeah, I just -

THERAPIST: You're not sure why they're saying that is -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That what you're saying? I see.

CLIENT: I'm surprised by that because I had not noticed I suppose. (sigh)

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean I'm surprised you say in passing, you know Chris said you know, he wanted to hit me, like as if that's not that important.

CLIENT: Yeah. I still don't see that it was important. (sigh) Why do I do that? (laugh)

THERAPIST: What do you think he must be feeling to say that?

CLIENT: Hum? I guess he's angry. But I mean the way he said it, I didn't, I thought we were joking. I thought he wasn't serious. And I really (sigh) I can actually feel myself fearing like with childhood, you know to think about it. But, you know, no really? I don't think I can rile him up. He's just going to go right back and you know, be emotionless again. It's just a momentary lapse. I certainly cannot have such an impact on someone so powerful and you know, important. (laugh) [00:26:07]

I am erasing my own worth there. (laugh)

THERAPIST: I was thinking that. That maybe part of the difficulty in seeing your impact as seeing yourself as a powerful person who has impact on other people, sometimes very deeply so.

CLIENT: Well, it's very scary. I want to take (laugh) responsibility that. (long pause) I mean I do say I want to change him, but then when he does react in the way that I would like I suppose, I just feel scared and I want to you know, run away. [00:26:55]

Like you know, when I would truly leave and ran away from home and got so upset. (laugh)

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, I don't know why I do that. (sigh) (long pause) (big sigh) Could I change? Could I become aware and change? (laugh) [00:27:44]

THERAPIST: Well what you're saying is it scares you to think about that kind of power that you have.

CLIENT: Yeah. This is a conscious thing. I really don't want (laugh) to do this. Like sit in front of people and feel powerful and realize that, okay, everything I say could have an impact. That's just too much pressure. [00:28:18]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Well, you know, like I sit, I mean I have friends and I hang out with them and I try to be supportive and positive. Like with my friend for whom I asked for the reference.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And she's been going through stuff so I was sitting and talking to her and trying to like empower her, so. I guess I didn't feel like a child then. I felt like I was an adult and I had had experiences similar to hers and since I have been in therapy I could impart some of that experience. You know, that wisdom and help her see if that would be helpful to her. [00:29:11]

I mean those interactions are okay. (laugh) But then these (laugh) other interactions in which I really cringe to be all there. You know like they make me so nervous that I play roles instead of being myself, you know. Like last night I was aware of what I was saying. It felt like a performance actually. Playing a role. But I knew I had to play that role. [00:29:44]

Just like this morning I had to play the role of being cute and adorable with Chris.

THERAPIST: What was the purpose of the performance last night?

CLIENT: Oh well, to be to stand up for myself. (laugh) I wanted to express my angst. But you know I didn't think about the effect it would have on Chris. I guess I did somewhat think, but I guess I said I don't care. (laugh) Is that what it is? Like, you know as something different. [00:30:29]

THERAPIST: Well I think that you do want, I mean I think you do want to rile him up. But then you also don't believe that you can have that impact on him.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I'm confused. (laugh)

THERAPIST: I know.

CLIENT: I don't know if this, I don't know how to analyze this and what kinds of questions to ask to clear this up. (laugh) But I was trying to compare it to other interactions or that interaction to see what was different. So I don't know what is the true way. (sigh) (laugh) [00:31:16]

(long pause) And I asked of my friend like there were, the stakes are very long and I have a relationship with her, and you know I don't love her, (laugh) and she doesn't love me. That's what it is, like she doesn't love me so I, and I know that and so I can say whatever, you know. I mean I'm not just going to say whatever. I respect and want her friendship. [00:31:58]

Maybe the stakes are high. See, you see what I mean, it's so confusing.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: Maybe the stakes are higher actually. Now that I think about it the other way. As soon as I mean since I operate from the assumption that I don't have many friends and so every chance I get of being friendly I have to capitalize on that. So in that since the stakes were high. But I wanted to be helpful and kind (sigh). But with Chris I don't, and that, in that scenario, not all the time, but in that particular scenario last night, I didn't want to be helpful and kind. And I was like I'm tired of being helpful and kind. [00:32:44]

Being helpful and kind is what's led me here. So it's time to take him for granted. It's time to you know, (sigh) you know break some things. Be destructive and you know what I mean. If he loves me and he just he loves me so, I want to destroy that. (laugh) The thing I don't know. [00:33:16]

THERAPIST: What comes to mind about wanting to destroy that?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: It just rings true that your mind go with wanting to destroy that.

CLIENT: Destroy as in like you know, want to walk away and yell. And punish myself and (laugh) let go of comfort, you know. Rough it a little bit. (laugh) And that's a scary feeling you know, yelling at him. Because I'm like, okay you're on your own. It's like my mind is making leaps to you know, being in his house and protected and comforted to like being almost out on the streets and like trying to figure out how I'm going to get my own place. (laugh) And then I'm just (inaudible) so [00:34:31] As I'm hearing it and most, I see this other picture. (laugh) So -

THERAPIST: So you feel trapped by your need for him? Your dependency on him?

CLIENT: Yeah. A little bit. I try not to think about it too much because I do have this goal. You know I could go out and get a job. Quit school. Well, not quit school, but still get a job. So and then take care of the money, but I shouldn't be so confident (laugh) I don't know if I, how easily I can find a job, but. But yeah I mean like, I want to think about that because (sigh) it's a tough decision, but I have to like work on my craft. [00:35:32]

(long pause) But yeah, I do, even while I'm doing this and even as I say I don't care, it still feels like I owe him and like he's doing this thing for me. So and I guess when I feel that too much I feel like lashing out. Or having an outburst you know. (laugh) Because if I think that way that he is helping me and he is taking care of me, then I become submissive and then when I get when I come to a point where I feel like I'm being too submissive, then I rebel. (laugh) [00:36:23]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: So -

THERAPIST: You really must see yourself as like an indentured servant. You get land and food and you know in exchange for your labor and for your freedom.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think you said that earlier, right? That's the price you pay for having someone take care of you. Your independence.

THERAPIST: That's how you feel, yes.

CLIENT: Oh. (laugh) Not everyone thinks that way. [00:36:55]

THERAPIST: Do you think that everybody feels trapped in their relationships?

CLIENT: I don't know everyone. (laugh)

THERAPIST: Do you imagine that that's what that life is though? Feeling trapped in relationships?

CLIENT: No. I just like those who, those people who are unhappy or people who are single who don't want to be in relationships, I wonder if that is what's going on. If they feel trapped or they're afraid of being trapped. [00:37:22]

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: (laugh) I don't know. (pause) I just wonder if like that's what, because you said that you know, it's like your mom, so I thought, well maybe that's what's been behind all this all these years.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Feeling trapped. And not just by Chris actually. Like even the year when he wasn't here, I still felt trapped. And that was a different kind of trap. But it was there, so. [00:38:06]

THERAPIST: What kind of trap was that?

CLIENT: Well I created it on my own. Just by telling myself that I was a failure. I wasn't going to make it as an artist. Nothing was going to happen. You know and just spinning my wheels and kind of going crazy so like. (laugh) And I was too hard on myself. And I was so hard on myself that (laugh) I hurt my back. And I was really imagining you know like one day I'm disgusted with my body and like okay, I'm going to do weight lifting. And then pick up you know 25 pounds and bend in this wrong way. I already have a bad back and so. And then it snapped. (laugh) [00:38:55]

I was bed ridden for seven weeks. So you know -

THERAPIST: It sounded like you were angry.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I was seeing other people have fun and be like they're different, they're better and I'm really bad and so. You know it was just lots of negative thoughts piling on and things were crap. (laugh) (long pause) (sigh) And I want to not think about it in these terms and I'm seeing the damage of it actually. Like feelings survived. [00:39:52]

I'm feeling like I'm needing too much. I try not to like, I filed my own taxes myself. And my mom's. Just because I did not, I was absolutely like terrified of asking Chris to do them. Because I think he's done them in the past. At least my mom's so, when we were living together. And I did not want that at all, so. But then the money thing is always there and (sigh) I'm wondering how much longer I can take it you know, like being supported by him. [00:40:37]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: I do all this math and I'm like well, for six years he wasn't earning and you never, well once, I did once, a big outburst. (laugh) And then I said what is happening and that was when he had finished his PhD and he had got a job. That's when I had the outburst, like you owe me all this money and this and that. But I tried to tell myself like for six years I did not try to give him a hard time when he was in school. [00:41:12]

THERAPIST: Was he understanding that you were loaning it to him or that you were giving it to him?

CLIENT: Well we didn't really have a talk so.

THERAPIST: So he didn't offer to pay rent?

CLIENT: Well he did when he could. And he didn't pay and he asked, just he is, you know he has no hang ups. He's not crazy like me. (laugh) So he would just come up and ask like I have to go to Nepal and I need some money. So I just you know give around $1,500, $3,000 like I've done this a couple of times. [00:41:46]

THERAPIST: Hum. Did it every strike you as odd?

CLIENT: Well, at that time I was in love with him so I didn't care.

THERAPIST: How do those two things go together?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Well when you're in love with someone that doesn't matter what you give them?

CLIENT: No, it's nice. [00:42:08]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I felt proud and grateful for the opportunity. (laugh) And now I'm like what? Stupid. Or not that, but like why did I do it? I mean we fall in the trap right? How can I not think of that as a trap. [00:42:34]

THERAPIST: When you say that, what do you mean?

CLIENT: Well I, when my head has this image (laugh) you know of me working in Ohio and like paying the rent and my mom there and like Chris's also there and with me burdened and trapped. (laugh) I'm going to work and then coming back and leaving as much as I could for my classes and, yeah. [00:43:00]

THERAPIST: Do you feel that Chris expected that you'd pay him? Was he appreciative that you gave him money?

CLIENT: No, I think I kind of ruined that with (laugh) my outburst later on. But he says that he just kind of, he thought the understanding was that he would help, he would start paying as soon as he got a job.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: But I was very bitter because he made it you know, like he got a full time job, a tenure track job and I was still like the starting you know, long road, you know. And I saw that okay, you know all those years, six years, I was the responsible one. (laugh) You know I was always working while going to school except for the one year in MSU I always had like a full time, slash part time job that pretty much covered the rent and then some, so. [00:44:15]

And now I'm like why did I do that? (laugh) I could have been crazy and reckless like all other normal artists. (laugh) You know.

THERAPIST: Well I think it's confusing for you. You don't know if you feel trapped or someone is trapping you. But I think that's why you get angry with him.

CLIENT: Oh.

THERAPIST: Like it's like as if he's making you do something.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know the difference.

THERAPIST: Yes, I think that's part of the problem.

CLIENT: So he, are you saying that he, it looks like a trap or? [00:44:56]

THERAPIST: I said I think it feels like a trap. You don't see yourself as a free agent. He's not doing anything. You could take him or leave him, it's your choice.

CLIENT: But (laugh) he's a free agent?

THERAPIST: No, you.

CLIENT: Oh. But yeah, a little bit of what you just said like -

THERAPIST: Well that you feel angry at him because you feel that he's doing something to you. That's why people get angry at people, because they're doing something to them that's not nice.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And so like with the Nepal thing it's like he's done something to you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're going with him because he's made you somehow. He's done something to you to quote, unquote, put you in this position.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It doesn't feel like you've chosen this position.

CLIENT: Yeah I mean like [00:45:41]

THERAPIST: And I, you don't think oh I really shouldn't have done this. And maybe you do. You do in part. But you're angry at him because he's done something to you in your mind.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're not free to say Chris I just don't want to go. You can have a good time, or -

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know why I see it that way, but that's how I see it.

THERAPIST: You do. You really do.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And so things get transposed like that somehow.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You, I realize we're going to need to stop for today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I will see you on Monday.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: Thank you, I appreciate it.

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