TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Can I just I just want to clarify when you're going [I'm updating my computer real quick for my calendars] (ph) when you're going to be leaving.

CLIENT: Oh. So the thirtieth of May.

THERAPIST: The thirtieth of May. Okay. And are you going to want to do any Skype sessions, or what do you think?

CLIENT: That didn't quite work out last time.

THERAPIST: I know. My camera didn't work. Is that what you're referring to?

CLIENT: I mean it's just it's very stilted.

THERAPIST: That's, I mean it's fine. I wanted to offer that to you. So, but yeah, no I understand. So let's see. So then we're going to be meeting the 27th and the 29th and then you're gone. And then you come back in August?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. Very good. You come back the first week in August?

CLIENT: I think it's the sixth or something.

THERAPIST: Okay. I'm going to be away the first One of the reasons I asked you. The first week of August I'm away. I'm not sure. Yeah, I think it'll be like the fifth, the week of the fifth I'll be away. And then I should be back in the office on the twelfth. [00:01:14]

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So just to let you know that so then it might be a little bit longer too.

CLIENT: Oh.

THERAPIST: It'll be a couple of months.

CLIENT: Huh?

THERAPIST: A couple of months that we're not meeting.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know if that's a good idea. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Well, how do you feel about it?

CLIENT: Huh?

THERAPIST: How do you feel about it?

CLIENT: I don't know. Like as usual, I haven't planned and thought about anything. (laughs) I want to change that obviously (sniffs) and get more control over things that are important to me. (laughs) And not completely be, you know, frazzled. But, yeah, I mean I was thinking maybe I should just go away for a month.

I don't know. I applied for this grant and I probably won't get it, but just in case that happens then I will be, then I will make more plans of traveling and I'll know in like five days. So, if I don't get it then too I'll make plans. So in case I do come back sooner So after five days I will make more concrete plans for the summer. (laughs) And, yeah. [00:02:40]

And then Skype is a possibility maybe. I'll see like if we can do it like once a week or once every couple of weeks.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it seems like it would be a good idea for at least a -

CLIENT: It's better than nothing.

THERAPIST: Yeah. To stay in touch even if we're not working at this a couple of times a week.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean it's just for a little bit of time.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And like, you know. (laughs) I could just write you a long e-mail. (laughs) Even that might help, I think. Yeah, so in five days I will make plans. I just -

THERAPIST: But right now you anticipate at least not being here for June.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Yeah, (inaudible at 00:03:20) June and then maybe for July I'm thinking maybe I should come back. But that will also depend on like finding a place and stuff.

THERAPIST: What do you do when you're in Nepal?

CLIENT: That's a very good question. (laughs) I don't know what I do. I just go and be. That's what I think I'm doing. But last year was progress (ph), I didn't make plans. Like I told my work place that I was going and they wanted me to take photos. So then I planned out at least a couple of weeks of doing that.

And then I made other plans of traveling with friends. So that was good. (laughs) I had more of a handle on stuff. But,, again, this year, I mean it's like Chris (ph) said, "Okay, it's time to get tickets." And I'm like, "Okay, here's my credit card and here's a check." And we both got tickets. And he knows what he's doing at home, obviously.

And now I'm like, "Okay now I should make my plans," because obviously I'm just not (inaudible at 00:04:25) follow him around. Which is what has happened actually. Not the last time but the time before.

I went for six months and I just kind of hung out with him wherever he went I went. (laughs) And I'm trying to change that. And it's not as easy, obviously, because I'm trying to separate myself from him a little bit. So this time I'll see (inaudible at 00:04:57). Maybe we'll buy some train tickets. (sigh, pause)

But I wanted to tell you that I got what I deserved. (laughs) So we met on Wednesday, I think?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Yeah, and then Wednesday was kind of going okay but like I just kind of broke down a little bit and [Chris (ph) was like, "What are you doing?" And I was like, "Yeah," and I was crying.] (ph) It was raining and we took a walk outside [and it was like I said, It's not working.] (ph)

He's just really, really busy right now. And he's like, "Yeah, I shoot myself in the foot. You know, like doing this and that and like signing for more and more things that I cannot do." And, I don't know (laughs) I said, "Maybe subconsciously you don't like me and so you just make plans and you do all these other things. (laughs) [00:6:20]

Maybe I shouldn't have said that. But I don't know. It's kind I was feeling bad about that. And then we had an event to go to on Wednesday evening. [We all went] (ph) and my Mom came too. (laughs) But then after the event there was like a hang out and Chris (ph) and his friend didn't come for that.

And I stayed there the whole night. (laughs) And it's at the house of this woman who is kind of, who started this women's initiative that I'm a part of. And like she's the one who offered me pie when (inaudible at 00:07:04) [wouldn't talk to me] (ph). (laughs)

So I was talking to her and couple of other people until three a.m. Just to let you know the relationships and stuff with people. Like it shouldn't be that hard. You know. But even as I was complaining I was like, "It's not very substantial. So he's judgmental." You know?

I guess I have that Bridget Jones woman (inaudible at 00:07:28). She's in prison, and the prisoners are like, "Yeah, my boyfriend beats me. My boyfriend makes me, you know, take drugs and have sex with other men." (laughs) And Bridget is like, "He didn't He folded his underpants." (laughs) And, "He didn't stand up for me."

So I feel like that a little bit. That, you know, like it doesn't seem very serious but then I also kind of remember what you've been saying that, you know, in a relationship it's how you feel is a big component and all that. But that woman, she was like, "It's more about you. It's more about you finding your space to work and stuff and be your own person, than about the relationship, than about Chris (ph) and what he is doing." [00:08:25]

So I agree with that too, but so it's like I see that obviously it's a dilemma of like wanting my own things and my own friends, my own kind of way of doing things and looking at things. And struggling and feeling (laughs) obviously. Yeah. And then running to Chris (ph) because I'm scared of being lonely and then I'd like to be taken care of.

It's like, okay so, you know, this thing is not happening. My world is not being created for various reasons, so I might as well stay here where I am getting some nurturing and some love and all that.

Anyway, so I was thinking all those things and, you know, like Thursday morning I went home and Graham had sent this e-mail that said, "Our friendship is over. Do not e-mail me back." And that's it. So I'm like, yeah, you know, like I feel very, very bad about it. (laughs) [00:09:47]

THERAPIST: What do you feel bad about?

CLIENT: Well, we've been friends for ten years and he I mean I did say that to him like, "Yeah, that means a lot to me but I understand if it doesn't mean much to you. So clearly you're trying to tell me it doesn't mean much."

And I'm trying to like, you know, obviously I don't have closure and all that. You know, I can't call him up and say, "What happened?" You know? Because I think I already know what happened. (laughs) It's just I don't want to accept it.

THERAPIST: What do you mean "you know?" What do you know already happened?

CLIENT: Well he wanted to have sex and I didn't. (laughs) For various reasons, (inaudible at 00:10:34) maybe not completely with him, but still kind of with him. So I think part of me just I mean in my head I think I was trying to sabotage it from the beginning. Like in that scene at the station was kind of I think me trying to resist myself from going.

I was like surprised that I was going through with it, that I was actually going to go. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I mean we had, you know, a terrible time last time as well and then we weren't in touch the whole year. And then I was like, "Hey, you know, what happened to that thing of we going to Ohio and hanging out in Aurora." And that to me is that's an attractive way of spending time. [00:11:32]

Except that this time around it was even worse. It is full of judgments and full of criticism and full of negativity, and me being coerced into being intimate when I didn't really want to. So obviously he saw all of this and didn't say anything when I was there, but, you know. (laughs)

THERAPIST: So I'm not sure that you got what you deserved, what that means.

CLIENT: Well, like obviously I'm very guilty (laughs) after talking to him Wednesday. So that's why I think I was trying to make kind of some kind of effort to move out. Yeah. Wednesday afternoon I was very upset.

I think I e-mailed a couple of people for apartments, and then just kind of wrote to my Mom as well. Like, "So what are you doing with a job?" So (pause) I'm guilty (laughs) about going to Ohio. So that's what I mean that I got what I deserved. [00:12:44]

And I was like, "Oh, I did something fun in Ohio." And the guy is like, "Pfft. No you didn't. Don't ever show your face here again."

THERAPIST: So you got punished. Is that what you're saying?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What were you getting punished for?

CLIENT: For doing that. For cheating on Chris (ph).

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Or trying to.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: (laughs) Why?

THERAPIST: I didn't understand what you were talking about.

CLIENT: Oh, okay. (pause) What do you think?

THERAPIST: About?

CLIENT: All this.

THERAPIST: I don't know how to answer that, Cecelia (ph). I don't what you're looking for right now. [00:13:44]

CLIENT: You're opinion. (laughs)

THERAPIST: I don't know what to give. An opinion about what?

CLIENT: Well (inaudible at 00:13:52)

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: This past weekend I suppose. What I did, why I did it, and all that. (laughs) And now like feeling awful about it for various reasons. (pause)

THERAPIST: I guess I'm not sure what kind of opinion are you looking for. An opinion about?

CLIENT: I don't know. Just (inaudible at 00:14:45). (laughs)

THERAPIST: Well something. You're asking me for something. I just don't understand what it is.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know either.

THERAPIST: Like an opinion about right and wrong kind of opinion?

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don't know what you're looking for. (pause) But I guess in thinking about it, it does seem like your looking for a reaction from people. You're sort of speaking through your actions to Chris (ph), and speaking through your actions to Graham, speaking through your actions to your mother. You know, that you're wanting to have an impact on people and them have a reaction to you. [00:15:46]

CLIENT: Yeah. Maybe. What kind of a reaction?

THERAPIST: Well you certainly didn't go to Ohio so that Chris (ph) would, you know, to show Chris (ph) how committed you are to him.

CLIENT: (laughs) Mm hm. (pause) And then to Graham?

THERAPIST: I don't know.

CLIENT: (sniffs, pause) I mean, I'm trying to think about Chris (ph). I just think what I was trying to tell myself is that I can do this. I can have my own life, which is kind of, you know, sexier than Chris's (ph) or whatever, you know. But (laughs) You know, a more interesting or more diverse, more fun. You know? But clearly I went about it in the wrong way. So, I don't know. (sniffs) [00:17:14]

THERAPIST: Well you do things in such a way that you then feel you deserve punishment.

CLIENT: Yeah. Maybe I'm masochistic. (laughs) Masochistic. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Did you feel like on Wednesday I was trying to punish you or say that you should be punished?

CLIENT: No, but I felt guilty. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So -

THERAPIST: But you felt guilty coming in here. So did you feel any more guilty leaving?

CLIENT: Well, I just wasn't thinking about it purposefully that, you know, I cheated on Chris (ph). And you kind of, maybe not phrased it as directly as that, but kind of made me think about it in that way. And I was like, "Yeah, that makes me feel horrible." And I think maybe this is the impetus I really need to like move out and you know like do things the right way. [00:18:12]

You know, like if I stop obfuscating, as you said. You know, which I have a tendency to do, which I agree. And just, you know, do it the straight and narrow way. And if I'm unhappy I should move out and stop making excuses, like you said. And try to sort things out and see possibilities instead of dead ends.

And like, "Oh, I cannot move out because I'm paying my Mom's rent," la la la and all that chain and stuff. To break the links of the chains down and take a step forward.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: (sigh) And that's why I didn't come home Wednesday. And I was talking to my community about Chris (ph).

THERAPIST: I'm just going grab my jacket.

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah and all that. But then Thursday night I came home and I get this e-mail from Graham and I'm like, you know, (laughs) this is probably a bad idea to like strike out on my own and see other guys. [00:19:31]

THERAPIST: How are those two related? I don't Yeah, what is the relationship between those two things? Graham saying he doesn't want to see you and you not sure, and you feeling ambivalent about leaving?

CLIENT: Well I just see the value of Chris (ph). That he is kind and that he is very forgiving.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it seems like you start comparing. "Graham, you know, doesn't give me this but Chris (ph) does." It's sort of you don't think about what you need. You sort of start comparing people, like weighting them.

CLIENT: Well don't you go into the market and you are like, "Okay, there are these two shampoos and this is what's on the shelf." And there's five shampoos and you're like, "Okay, this one will give you silky hair, and that one's going to give volume, the other ones going to get rid of dandruff." And I can't think of the other two. (laughs) [00:20:41]

THERAPIST: But there are more than five men in the world.

CLIENT: Well, okay, so hundreds. But still, you know? Are you going to think about your needs or are you going to think about, "Okay, which one has what I like?"

THERAPIST: But there -

CLIENT: That makes you feel less miserable. (laughs)

THERAPIST: But there are hundreds of them. (laughs) I mean, there's not just three people or five people.

CLIENT: But there are types. No? (pause)

THERAPIST: (laughs) I don't know if you really feel this way or not. Like sometimes I can't tell if you're being kind of intentionally naive or you believe that there's five types of people in the world, or something.

CLIENT: No I probably (laughs) am intentionally being like, yeah. I guess, I mean I see what you're saying that I didn't think about my needs at that point. I couldn't do anything else. It just felt like such a fucking slap in the face. You know? So at that point, the first thought was, you know, "My gosh, Chris (ph) is so kind." (laughs) He would never do this. And he's not fun or anything but, you know. [00:22:07]

THERAPIST: Are you afraid to be on your own?

CLIENT: Yeah. (laughs) I mean he's away for a conference, so I spent last night by myself and (sigh) I went to have dinner with my Mom in a restaurant that is right next door to Victor's place. (laughs) I'm very scared of doing that, maybe petrified. But we just did it and I actually was quite glad that I did it in the sense that the food was good and stuff.

And, you know, I was able to not think about him despite him being next door. But what am I trying to say? I guess I'm trying to say that it's very scary being alone but I guess I'm trying to figure out the resources that I have to not be lonely. I went and saw a friend also for dinner. [00:23:31]

So I guess the prospect of being alone one night was there, but I didn't like get on a dating site (laughs) or meet a guy or anything. I saw two women and, you know, came home and worked a little bit. So, but that's just one night. (laughs) But I don't think you asked me a logistical question. (laughs) I turned it into that.

THERAPIST: Hm. Good observation.

CLIENT: But what were you ?

THERAPIST: I mean it more general. I just wondered what came to your mind about being alone.

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe this whole thing is about the last time I had that feeling of loneliness I guess I was in that house with roommates. And I felt like there's too much of me. But I guess I was thinking last night when I was very low, very depressed, because as soon as I left my friend's place I was just walking down and I was thinking about her, and I was thinking about like people like her. [00:25:02]

She lives by herself in a very clean apartment. She keeps it cleaned, she has a nice view, and she's dating someone who is out of town. I was just thinking, you know, like could I picture myself in her shoes. And I got very, very scared. Like a feeling of emptiness came over me even as I was walking down the most favorite street, my most favorite street in Providence. (laughs)

And just like two hours ago I was walking down the street (ph) and it was, you know, raining and it was beautiful and it reminded me of like, I have very beautiful associations with rain. It's like it reminds me of Nepal and Istanbul and like a beautifully cloistered childhood.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know, like cloistered in a good way where there's, you know, like I don't know. (laughs) Sounds sentimental, but I have good associations. So anyways, all those disappeared and I was suddenly, it turned into suburbia and like there was no intellectual stimulation on the street, which is like so close to, which probably houses the most intelligent people, you know, in (laughs) New England. You know? [00:26:34]

I don't know what happened. It was like (sucking sound) a vacuum sucked all of the fun (ph) out of me.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And I just got so depressed, so scared.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And I called my Mom. I was driving and I don't like driving on that street. (sigh) And then, you know, Chris (ph) hadn't responded and I just felt like more and more like I was just like feeling empty. And I wondered And it was just me and my Mom eating dinner and talking about Chris (ph) and how there is no laughter with him. And I was just like, "Yeah."

And I mean, we were talking about this time when he and I first kind of broke up. We had just met and had just been a few months. And his parents had come over to the US and we had a little disagreement. And my Mom and I were like, "Uhhh. I'm not sure." [00:27:37]

Like all of us were going whitewater rafting, like my friends and I, and my Mom came too. And I don't know if Chris (ph) never wanted to come or maybe the last minute he decided not to come. I think it was a last minute decision. But anyway (ph), he decided to like stay with his Mom. And to my Mom and I that was like, that was so weird, because his Dad came with us whitewater rafting.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: (laughs) So she was like, "What is wrong with this guy? Why doesn't he want to do stuff, you know, with everyone." It's really the only two people who didn't come on the raft were him and his Mom.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And to us that was just like, "How exclusivist." You know, like, "How un " whatever. You know, like "unfriendly." She didn't want to come. She always has struck me as this, you know, like unemotional kind of I judge her too much. (laughs) [00:28:39]

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: And like him being nice to his Mom, I saw that he was being nice to her. But I guess at that moment that wasn't as important as doing what everyone else was doing. You know? It was a fun thing. You know? And so she and my Mom were like, "Well, he's being weird."

And just sitting in that restaurant yesterday I was thinking, you know, it could've been this. It could've been just me and my Mom. Where would I have been if that would've happened. I got scared. I was like I maybe would not have made What would I have achieved intellectually if I hadn't met Chris (ph)?

And then I got home and I was thinking maybe I'm like a social climber of sorts. Like I can only function when there is, or feel happy, well it's not even happy obviously. But like feel like unless there is something for me to achieve I feel kind of lost or like, you know, (laughs) not very engaged. [00:29:58]

So does that make sense? Not like a social climber as in, you know, like baiting CEOs. But like intellectual climber? (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: But people who are intellectual climbers they go on and get their PhD. They don't like stay with a smart boyfriend and be like, "Okay, he's doing all the intellectual work and I don't do anything. I'll just, you know, talk to him when he can." You know?

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (pause)

CLIENT: I am so confused. (laughs) We're talking about so many different things.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I have to say I didn't follow the transition you were making.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think we were talking about loneliness.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And I was trying to describe a state in which I feel most peculiar. You know?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Like vacant and like, yeah. That sinking feeling of, you know, hitting rock bottom or whatever. [00:31:11]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And that happens in like a vacuum, intellectual vacuum maybe? I think. I mean, maybe it's not intellectual but I feel like that's what it is. (sigh) And maybe that vacuum equals Chris (ph), the loss of Chris (ph).

THERAPIST: Mm. (pause) I guess the question is though, why destroy rather than leave? Like why are you trying to destroy the relationship?

CLIENT: Yeah. My Mom said something like when people visit him you get all like (sniffs), you feel he neglects you. And so you throw a tantrum or something. So that is true. Like every time someone visits him, his parents or his friends, I mean I don't like consciously feel neglected. [00:32:27]

And like, well yeah, obviously, you know, like I can share him with his friends. But I don't know, something happens. Like we always seem to live in these tiny places. Or suddenly if someone comes the place looks tiny. (laughs) You know? And I just feel very, very small. You know? Clustered or like cornered, more like. But yeah.

And, you know, I went away. I went out and worked at a cafe one day. But then I came back. (laughs) I guess I shouldn't have come back. (pause) I guess. But I don't know why I'm trying to destroy it. (laughs) I guess I hate him. (laughs) [00:33:38]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: That could be it. I certainly felt very destructive when he got a job, when he told me got the job. I was crying that (inaudible at 00:33:52). And I was very surprised by that. I was like, "Wait. Why am I not happy for him?" You know, part of me was happy but the other part that was crying was like, "He's got what he wanted and I haven't." And I guess, again, I was comparing. (pause)

And all this makes me think I really shouldn't be in a relationship. Clearly, I don't handle what it takes, I don't have what it takes. I can not handle all the different shades of it where people get busy and ignore you. Or people say something critical to you. Or people want something, like sex, and I cannot give it to them. [00:34:51]

So clearly the thing to do is to go off on my own. Find my own footing, be confident and rebuild myself, and then see who is going to fit my needs. (laughs) But when I think of doing that it's that intellectual vacuum thing that happens. And, you know, it's just me and my Mom and I feel so scared. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: That I will never climb (inaudible 00:35:25), or meet interesting people. And (pause, sigh) So really it's a web. (laughs, pause) Do you think I should be on my own? (laughs)

THERAPIST: Only you can answer that.

CLIENT: Yeah? [00:36:32]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But if I'm destroying relationships left and right. (laughs) Clearly I've destroyed two relationships this weekend, or this week. (laughs)

THERAPIST: That's your choice to destroy. You can choose to destroy. It's your choice.

CLIENT: No, I don't want to destroy. (laughs) I want to build, obviously.

THERAPIST: It's not so obvious.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's more obvious that I want to destroy?

THERAPIST: Mm. It's as obvious. I think because of this idea that maybe you hate him. I think that's important. I don't think you only hate him, I think you love him too.

CLIENT: Yeah. But why do I hate him? (laughs) What has he done? He's very kind. (pause) It's not like if he gets a job he takes that job away from me. You know? [00:37:40]

THERAPIST: You hate him for being superior to you, in you mind. You hate him for caging you in and limiting you. And you hate him for depriving of things that feel very important to all aspects of life, and you feel like he deprives you of that.

CLIENT: But not on purpose.

THERAPIST: He's not doing that on purpose or you don't hate him on purpose?

CLIENT: I guess neither. But, yeah, he's not doing any of this on purpose.

THERAPIST: I think sometimes you believe that, sometimes you don't. Sometimes I think you do feel he's just depriving you.

CLIENT: Hm. I mean isn't that what you were trying to say about relationships earlier? That you have to compromise. And you think, "Okay, I may not have a very exciting relationship. I may not be in love with this person all the time. But I love them and they love me back and we're committed. And, you know, I can trust him." And that can be important. You know, that can be beautiful. [00:39:04]

THERAPIST: But that's not what you're doing.

CLIENT: Why not? (laughs)

THERAPIST: It's complicated, but you're not doing that.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're running off with other men on the weekends. So you're not doing that.

CLIENT: And not even running off properly. You know?

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: (laughs) So it's not like, you know, "Okay, I got what I wanted this weekend. " (laughs)

THERAPIST: Well you choose, you know, quite cruel men. I would call Graham cruel.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But because you feel so guilty you kind of gloss over that and say, "Oh, well I got what I deserved because I was bad." But really your behavior has nothing to do with his behavior. I mean he treated you badly. It's not related to what you did or didn't do. I mean maybe you didn't feel like you're the nicest person, but in your mind it's retribution. [00:40:05]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's not about who he is as a person or anything else.

CLIENT: Hm.

THERAPIST: And if not cruel, certainly unkind.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Will it be possible for me to think of Chris (ph) in a different way? Like that he's not depriving me. Instead that he's providing things that I need, that I want. (pause) You know? (pause) I mean I do think of him, right? I mean I don't think I ever well maybe I did but I don't think I ever forget that he's providing intellectual stimulation and growth. [00:41:30]

And like he said Do we have time?

THERAPIST: We're going to need to stop in a moment, but what were you going to say?

CLIENT: Well you said like I ask for a lot. And I just though that I kind of cloak my needs to come close to his so that it doesn't seem like I'm asking for a lot. Like rent and food. He's going to spend the exact same amount of money on both of those if he's on his own.

THERAPIST: I'm losing you. I don't understand what you're saying.

CLIENT: Oh. You know last time you said I ask for a lot from Chris (ph)?

THERAPIST: Yes, it was in the context of your saying, "Well he doesn't really give me very much." And I was sort of pointing out that he does give you some things.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I felt you were trying to minimize what he gives you as a justification for what you did.

CLIENT: Yeah. Probably that's true. [00:42:30]

THERAPIST: And you seek out me, in particular, for absolution. Like you want me to absolve you.

(audio ends abruptly)

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