TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

______________________________________________________________________________ BEGIN TRANSCRIPT: ` THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.

(pause)

CLIENT: It's really weird to just come in and start talking. (chuckle) (pause) Did you have a nice weekend? [00:02:45]

THERAPIST: Yes, thank you.

(pause)

CLIENT: I was quite busy with work, and then, let's see, I took a little break on Saturday, and I went to get shoes or Chris bought me shoes for my birthday. And so when we were walking back, and he was just like I guess it's tiring for men to sit around and women shop for shoes. (chuckle) So I mean and he usually always preoccupied, so, you know, whatever, and it's just yeah, I guess I am used to it. [00:04:35]

But walking back, he was all, like what did he say? "I'm not giving you what I want," and he was preoccupied, and he said that, and it just made me remember my experience with Graham (sp), and with Victor (sp), and because they were much more violent. And I was just like, you know, if men don't get, you know, sex, they're just or not just that. That whole shoe thing just became such a transaction, you know, like, well, you were shelled out money so where is the thing that I want, you know. And then he's like, "I don't mean it that way," this and that, you know, and I was exhausted. [00:05:27]

It was just like I was working all day Friday, like continuously till my eyes hurt, you know, and I was just exhausted. And Saturday, we were walking around and stuff, but it's just like that's just what it is. That's the deal that's in a relationships, and it's like I was trying to tell myself, you know, this is what adults you know, this is how it works in adult relationship, you know. If you want someone to buy you nice things, or just to do something for you that is the price attached, you know. For me, this was like, I better shape up. You know, I better start, you know, giving it to whoever I'm with, or, yeah, and get over my hang-ups, and, you know, my body issues and whatever. Or, you know, I have to find the means to live by myself, so, you know, that's the choice. So yeah. But I was forcing myself to be, I don't know, to be in the moment, and be like, yeah, you know, you don't look stupid to me right now at all. Yes, you bought me those nice shoes. I should be so happy and so in love with you. It's like, whatever, you know. [00:07:11]

And yesterday, I was kind of feeling really down and feeling sad, and said to Chris that I shouldn't have said it. I was like, you know, things are going well, so now I'm feeling stuck, or I'm feeling it's like death to me. You know, you know I don't want to get married, and you know I'm living with you, and you're buying me shoes, and, you know, you're happy with me, and we are going to Istanbul. You know, we're going to meet your parents yet again, you're going to ask yet again, so I feel like death. (chuckle) [00:07:53]

THERAPIST: Why death?

CLIENT: Huh?

THERAPIST: Why death?

CLIENT: I don't know. I guess I was in this thing or some way weird reason, Victor, and I haven't heard from him in a very long time, maybe it's just that I mean, I know what you are saying, you know, he's part of the narrative, and all that. I see that, but I guess I was feeling hurt that, you know, he's continuing on with his life, and, you know, I'm not a part of it, and even just thinking about the stuff that happened, and thinking he wasn't very nice, and, you know, maybe thinking he shouldn't have done some of the things he did, you know. So, I don't know. [00:08:51]

I just feel yeah, so to me, it just felt like the doors were closing. I saw myself not wanting anything, not doing anything, not striving for anything. Oh, yeah. (chuckle) So I ordered an iPhone yesterday, that's why I was feeling so horrible. Like, I have this offer, and you know how they do it, like, on their web site, like yeah, actual, you know, price is $700 and we're giving it to you for $100 if you sign up for a two-year contract. So I did that, and then I felt absolutely horrible. I was like, I am not an iPhone person. I am a struggling person, you know. I should have a cheap phone, and I should constantly have to delete messages (chuckle) soon as I receive new ones. And, you know, I shouldn't have unlimited memory, I should have limited. And I shouldn't wear real leather, I should wear faux leather, you know. [00:10:02]

I feel like, you know, like getting the best, you know, what's the then why am I going to even try, you know. If I already have the best things, you know, what's going to make me struggle. So I just, kind of, that's why I felt like death, you know. I'm like, I have everything. I have love. I have, you know, I'm married, and I have yeah, just might as well die now. But -

THERAPIST: It doesn't seem like you don't want to marry Chris because you're worried about being too happy.

CLIENT: (chuckle) Yeah. But I don't know. Maybe I am, and I'm really scared of it. I don't know. It's like he's nice, and he loves me, and -

THERAPIST: The way you describe your relationship, it sounds so depressing.

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:11:24]

CLIENT: Well, we have our good moments. Like, we listen to music, and this weekend, we were just doing, you know, the festival, and, you know, it was letting you know about jazz. Yeah, like, he knows so much I mean, we have disagreements. Like yesterday, so this man in the community who knows pretty much everyone. He had gone away, and he came back, so we went to see him, and we don't go to see him specifically, but someone else was going away, so this man was there. And, you know, Chris, you know, he was talking to them and telling all these stories. And I'm a little afraid of this man just because I have problem with older men who are in position of authority, and it's completely, like, and back goes up, like, no, no, no, I don't want to stay with you, la, la, la. Just get on your belly, I said, you know, which is very bad for me (chuckle) because, you know, I do want to learn. [00:12:34]

But so I came back, and Chris was like, you know, "Guys like him, you just, kind of, sit at their feet," and he goes, "Just let them talk for hours and hours." And I was like, I don't know what happened. We were (inaudible at 00:12:44), and I just, sort of, snapped. I was like, "I'm never going to do that. I'm never sitting at anyone's feet, you know. You know, that is definitely not old men, you know, it's okay to have girls. (chuckle) He's like, "What? It's not about a man or a woman. You could do that to a woman, too." But by then I was just too pissed. I was like, "I'm not even doing it to a woman." I don't know. [00:13:07]

You know, that was, like, it's something intense in me that just went, like, I mean, I don't like those power relations, you know. I want equality, and I want love, and I want acceptance, and I felt like all I'm getting is a lecture, you know, like when someone is an authority figure, and it's me being so small. I don't know why I took it that way, but I did, and I spent six months like that, and then, yeah, in 2010. And I don't like it. It felt like such a trap. We went to see, or deliver I guess, this man who is Chris's uncle who needs an activist, and he lives in a very small place, and he has oxygen, so we just lived there, and that's what it was like, you know. Chris just sitting there for hours and hours and hours, and this guy is talking and talking and talking. I am so bored. (chuckle) But I don't know. [00:14:30]

You know, I mean, I didn't appreciate it as much as Chris, and I hate that because to Chris, that is very, very important. I mean, I understand that, you know, in relationships, the same thing doesn't have to be important for both people, but it's just the way I felt, and I wish I could change it. You know, I just felt so oppressed, you know. If I hadn't felt that way, I would've learned so much, you know. I would've stood up for myself and said, I don't want this. I want something else, you know, or you go stay here and I'll be somewhere else. [00:15:14]

But I mean, I'm just kind of frustrated that I cannot make that get it in a snap. You know, I have to really, really work hard. I thought I was going to stay with my aunt this time in Nepal. I know, I was just building castles in the air, thinking, you know, she's so strong. You know, she's very abrasive. Maybe I can travel with her. I would feel so safe, and she'll introduce me to people, and yesterday, my mom told me that she's actually just going to be in the U.S. the whole time, so I was very disappointed. And I was like, why can I not make anything happen on my own? You know, why do I feel dependent on Chris? You know, why is he my only resource, you know, only choice, only option, you know. And that's how it felt. I felt trapped. [00:16:21]

And I mean, like I could like Chris more if I don't feel this way, if I don't feel like he has everything and I don't have anything. And I know this is my negative thinking talking, but it's hard to snap out of it (chuckle) sometimes. (pause) [00:17:39]

THERAPIST: I was thinking about your description at the beginning of this session was relationships as transactional.

CLIENT: Yeah. What about it? (chuckle)

THERAPIST: It's very bleak.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It sounds like prostitution. [00:18:05]

CLIENT: (chuckle) That's what it feels like. I mean, I have deep respect for sex workers. (laughter) But that doesn't mean that I don't feel the cultural stigma in their profession. No, I mean that's what I remember, you know, and I can see, you know, that's what really stung me. And it was just one moment when you are and people really mean it, but it's, kind of, it became Chris after the shoe shopping, at which during which he was, you know, so like, "Okay, just tell me wherever, and I can give you my credit card or something." (chuckle) You know. It wasn't like, hey, you're a person, and, you know, it's your birthday, and here is this gift for you because I like you," you know. [00:19:24]

THERAPIST: Well, but you treat him in a transactional fashion, so how is he supposed to treat you differently?

CLIENT: What do you mean I treat him as -

THERAPIST: Well, you want to stay with him because you need food and shelter. When you think about leaving him, sometimes you think about some of the things the two of you have in common, but you primarily think, well, you know, I need him for Nepal because I don't have anywhere else to stay.

CLIENT: No, I don't think of it completely like that.

THERAPIST: I know. I know it's not completely like that, but you do think of him that way, especially when it's come to moving recently. Primary reason you give for not breaking up with him is because, you know, he gives you food and you have somewhere to live. [00:20:09]

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I mean the living thing is definitely there. I mean, I could live with my mom, but it's just, you know, it's better for me to live at Chris's place because it's, kind of, more central, and also it's not with my mom. And you know living with my mom can is its own, can't afford my mom. Like she's not very clean, and all that, so I see a lot of time being wasted trying to fight with her, or go against her nature, or make her clean up, you know, and worry about her constantly. So at least for right now, and I mean, yeah, I mean I guess I don't know what you're trying to say. I get her to say it because if I do it, then it's okay? (chuckle) [00:21:08]

THERAPIST: No, I'm not saying it's okay, but it upsets that he's doing it, that you're treating him like that.

CLIENT: I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying I can't be hypocritical. I'm sure I am one, but -

THERAPIST: Well, it may be hypocritical, but I actually wasn't focusing on that. I was thinking that if you set up the relationship that way, it's hard for him to have a different kind of relationship with you. I mean, he understands that there's a way in which you're transactional with him, so I mean, you know, how is he supposed to treat you differently?

CLIENT: I don't know. I mean, I don't know what to say to that. (chuckle)

THERAPIST: I mean, over time, it's going to affect the way he looks at you and treats you, you know, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying you're being hypocritical, per se, I'm just saying this is the situation that you've definitely helped create. [00:22:17]

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know if I helped create it or if it's just there. I mean, I feel like for five years when he wasn't working, you know, I didn't bug him at all for rent.

THERAPIST: Right, and I know that. I know that he has borrowed money from you, or I don't know if the understanding is borrowed it, but it's not clear that he stayed with you because of that, but that was one of the reasons he stayed with you. Now you may feel that's true, but, sort of, getting a rent-free apartment, or, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that was his motivation.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, for me, motivation, or maybe it was equal, the not having to pay rent was actually in the environment, like living at Arlington.

THERAPIST: Exactly.

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: In terms of with him?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, he and I have so many conversations that I appreciate, and it's a much smaller place, and I don't know, I feel like I can get my bearings more in this place. It's hard to explain, but I feel like my head space is far more contained, and, you know, but yeah. And I feel more taken care of, not probably because he pays the rent, but, you know, it's like preparing a meal, eating together, you know. That has a lot of meaning, you know, the daily living creates me, you know, for me whereas living by myself/occasionally seeing Chris or too when I'm in the kitchen. [00:24:12]

I felt like it lacked meaning, I guess. You know. It felt like it wasn't adding up to anything, and I want to hear it. (chuckle) Why does it have to add up to anything, but I felt like that. I mean, sometimes I get, you know, it's too much meaning, like, okay, shut up. You know, go away please for a few days, or I wish I could go away. But most of the time, like when I first moved, it was just like, oh, yeah, this is great, you know. We talk about what we want to eat, and we prepare that meal, and then I don't know, because this is new to me still because growing up, we didn't have a dining table or anything, and I don't remember a single meal where my parent, whoever well, my mom and I, we sat down together with our food and ate it. You know, it was yeah. [00:25:30]

THERAPIST: What did you do?

CLIENT: I don't know. The only meals I remember are when, you know, my dad and after a huge fight he would go and his way of saying sorry would be to get some street food, like really, really delicious, like a chicken curry or something. And, you know, I guess and my mom would pull out the bread that she had made the previous day. It was, you know, stale and it was hard to eat, but, you know, we didn't care about that. It's just the curry, it was so good, and I'd just eat it with my books, and all my books had curry stains on them. (chuckle)

So those are the meals I remember, but, yeah, the other meals I don't really remember because, yeah, because I really like our table, and (inaudible at 00:26:31) I don't eat quickly, or I don't know. (chuckle) But it wasn't like a production like it is in his family. You know, there has to be a salad, and there has to be the chutney. There has to be the pickle. There has to be bread, the rice, and the dry vegetables. (chuckle) And the yogurt, and the dessert. (chuckle) So and you don't sit down and start eating until, you know, the father is seated, and that's again, like, oh, where you put (inaudible at 00:27:14), but in this order, I mean, it has something with meaning.

So, but yeah, doing this with Chris feels fun, you know, because I tried making meals on my own when I was in Arlington. I would, you know, it's this thing that Chris knows if I'm by myself, I'll just eat cheese and bread or something, and it's been the case. Like this year, I'm not really cooking that much, even though I'm gaining so much weight (chuckle) just eating, eating, eating. Or if he's away, I'll just, you know, make something quickly, or eat crap by myself. But yeah, I mean, that was the thing that really attracted me to the idea of living with him. I mean, I don't know if that is love, but it just felt like such a comfort from the barrenness of Arlington. (chuckle) And that's all. [00:28:56]

THERAPIST: What were your thoughts about asking me how my weekend was?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Well, usually we don't talk about how my life is going.

CLIENT: No, I do. I ask about your weekend every time, every Monday.

THERAPIST: Do you?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Hm. Maybe it was more pronounced today because you didn't know what you started by saying this is so weird to sit down, and then you asked me, but you weren't talking.

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. It's just sometimes it's like, this is so weird, like sitting down and just start button and start talking my problems. To me, it's just very weird. It's unnatural, you know, because we're not friends or anything, so to me, it's comforting to talk about problems with friends because it's mutual and it's not like, "Well, you know, you're full of problems, but I'm not," or you know, any yeah, so I don't know. So [00:29:56]

THERAPIST: So it's a power thing again?

CLIENT: I guess. Or transactional.

THERAPIST: Well, transactional relationships are one without a personal connection or any caring. It's like you give me this, I'll give you that.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess Chris and I do care about each. I mean right?

THERAPIST: You're not sure?

CLIENT: No, I mean, you know, if you say that, you know, it's transactional, but I don't know. I guess I should get over those moments when it becomes transactional, but those moments weigh so heavily on, you know, they cast such a dark cloud on the rest of the relationship, I guess. That really depresses me, just debilitates me, and I'm just like, you know, I don't want to do it.

END TRANSCRIPT