TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: So first of all I haven't seen Stephanie yet, still.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I kind of called her. So I kind of called her out on like seeing Aiden instead of me that night. The whole thing. And of course she got defensive and it was like all about her like, ‘I didn't choose him over you. I chose me over you because he would smoke me up and rub my feet.' And I was like, ‘I know, I would have loved somebody to smoke me up and rub my feet when I got off that overnight flight after a really long week. But nobody did. So at least you have somebody like super sarcastic and she kind of ignored it, you know? And then she like, because she had like asked me, ‘why are you being weird?' And I was like, ‘I'm not being weird. I'm just being distant because you seem to be being distant and you don't seem to really want to see me.' And she was like, ‘I do want to see you.'

And then yesterday we've been like chatting since that time and we've made a plan being out tomorrow night, which is good for me because I am off Thursday and Friday, I'm going to New York. And then last night, or yesterday, I said something like you know, ‘what are (unclear), like I do miss you. Like I miss having a friend, you know?' And then, finally, she was like, ‘I'm sorry, I've been so selfish.' Then she apologized, actually. So okay, whatever, we're fine. Like I know her M.O. So it's like it is what it is, we're fine for now and I'm glad that I said something. And in the meantime, I had a good weekend. I mean I went to – well Saturday morning I went to Yoga and it was really nice, actually, and I really liked it and it was relaxing and I'd like to be consistent with it. I also went Sunday morning and – a beginners Saturday morning and then like an easy Yoga and meditation on Sunday. And they were both really nice. So either I could go to both every week or one. It's nice that there's options. And the (unclear) studio behind my house. And it's like a three-minute walk which is really great, too, because I can just wake up late and go later than I would if I were driving. And then I was like full of energy. I took a really long walk on Friday, like almost five miles and –

THERAPIST: That was a long walk.

CLIENT: Yeah. It was intense. But it was good. Like I was kind of yeah, I like doing it, so I may as well keep walking. Because I walked all the way along the beach there and was like, that's nice, like people are running with their dogs and their kids and it was sunny and warm and it was really nice. I was really tired by the time I got home though. Going to yoga was nice because it like stretched me out. And then Saturday I was full of energy. I did a bunch of stuff like going with my plan with doing stuff and I actually started a blog which I haven't publicized anywhere yet but I'm kind of just like, ‘so, here's what I did last night.' Which, I don't know, is helpful personally. Maybe I'll share it at some point, but it's good for me because I don't know, like I'll often set a lot of goals for myself in terms of what I want to do when I get home, on the weekend and like if I don't complete all of them I'm like disappointed in myself. But kind of documenting in this stupid little blog is kind of helpful because it's like, ‘okay, well I didn't do everything that I said I was going to do, but look how much I did do by putting it in writing.' So, I'm happy about that. Saturday night was a total bust. I hung out with my friend. We went to dinner which was actually really nice and then we wanted to go out to like a bar or club. We were like trying to figure out where to go. We got dressed up and looked all cute and then decided,, she heard some DJ that she knows or something was playing at some club which is like downtown. So we get there and the line is really long and it's like all douche bag. But like, just bad, just like the rich, like Persians and stuff, like that whole weird scene. I don't even know what – but it's like a whole douche bag scene and they go to all those – So we're standing in line for a really long time. We're like literally at the front of the line for an hour because they keep letting these douche bags in because they've got tables or whatever.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So then I was like, "Madge, you know?" And she's like, ‘well, where are we going to go now? It's late." And I was like, ‘yeah, you have a point.' But I don't even want to go in here. Like, the music's not even that good. Like we're missing all the good music hanging around here anyway. So finally we go in and it was exactly as I imagined – awful. It was so bad, I was so depressed, like with humidity, and then she finally was like, ‘okay, let's go.' So we're leaving and we like walk by and like there's a table by the door, like you can buy tables so you can buy a $1000 bottle of (unclear) and then you have the table. Like, ‘ooh, we have a table.'

Like, there's these black guys, obviously low lives, I'm sorry to say it, but like losers, like gross. And like one of them tried to grab my arm. He's like standing at his table and I'm like walking out and this is clearly like the club's about the close, like last-ditch effort and these guys are like, ooh, who can we grab, you know? And I was like so annoyed at that point that I was like all attitude so I was just like, ‘you don't grab somebody's arm,' and just kept walking and was like okay, hoping to figure out, waiting for Madge because I figure she's right behind me and we're going to walk to the car. She's still inside. I guess he had grabbed her after he grabbed me and she actually was like dancing with him and it was like – she has lower standards than me. She just will like not cute-wise, or attractive-wise, but like she'll just date a drug dealer, like she just doesn't care.

It doesn't mean I can't have fun with her but like some things like this will happen. So then she's like dancing with the guy. I come over. I'm texting with my friend who is going through some stuff. This friend of mine from high school who's had a lot of stuff happen and I hadn't talked to him in a while and he was texting with me and having a hard time. So it seemed like (unclear) and I are being very rude, bitchy – like I'm a bitch. Like I'm the bitch at the club. Okay? And one of the friends of this guy like literally like does a plank over the table to like try to talk to me because I'm like standing there and they're like sitting on the other side of the table. And I'm like totally ignoring him and he was like, ‘oh, my abs are starting to hurt. Why don't you come over here?' And I was like, ‘why don't you just go back over there because I'm clearly not interested in talking to you.' Like, I'm not going anywhere, you know? So then he was like, ‘ha, ha, ha, ha. Playing hard to get?' And I was like, ‘not playing.' Like, I'm not interested. And the friend that Madge was talking to was like, ‘come here for a second. Come here.' Because like Madge was like, ‘sure, come over.' Like, sure.' Because she was still talking to him. I don't know why. She must have her own self-esteem issues. Clearly. So, he's like, ‘I was just talking to your girl and you know, so how about we all go to Chinatown?' And it was like it's 1:30 a.m. And I was like, ‘Madge, no.' And she was like, ‘I kind of told you,' to the guy because I guess he had been trying to convince her. For some reason she didn't feel strong enough to like say, ‘no' herself so she was like I'll ask Trina and she didn't say no.

And the other one is talking to me and he's like, he comes over and he's like, ‘oh look it, her watch is (unclear). And I'm like, ‘whatever,' and he's like, ‘ooh, but look, mine is diamonds.' I was like, ‘okay.' And he's like, ‘you know, we go to the –', I don't know – he said something. I said something about waste of money for the tables and he was like, ‘we go every week and we go to the –' Oh, no, no, no, he had said, ‘so, like do you come here a lot?' And I was like, ‘nope, I've never been and I'm never coming back. Worst club I've ever been to.' And he's like, ‘well, you know, we go to the high end spots and we like to pop out.' And I'm like, ‘ooh.' And he was like, ‘no, it's not like ooh, it's just, you know, I'm just saying.' And I'm like, ‘right, I'm just saying – who says that? Like, totally like being a horrible bitch because I wasn't leaving by myself and I was like well, may as well just go all out bitch right now.

And then, so finally, he's still talking to me for some godforsaken reason, even though I'm giving him every signal to shut the fuck up and leave me – even his friends kept coming over like, ‘she clearly doesn't want to talk to you. Stop.' So finally he's like, ‘I'm sorry, I don't want to be wasting your time.' I was like, ‘you're not wasting my time. You're wasting your time. Like, I'm just waiting for my friend. I'm standing here anyway, but there's no reason for you to talk to me.' So okay, whatever. Then we had a good laugh about it in the car. She was like cracking up. I love you. You're so funny. I can't believe you did that.' I was like – oh yeah, and then they were like, ‘how old do you think we are?' And I was like, ‘twenty.' And he was like, ‘ooh, you're good.' Okay. And he was like, ‘how old are you?' And I was like, ‘too old for you.' He's like, ‘you're not 30.' And I was like, ‘yup.' Even though obviously not, but for all intents and purposes I am. And they all – you know, it was like this whole – and then we left on that note. And then we had a good laugh about it and then she slept over and in the morning she left to go meet up with some low life other guy that she's dating and I went to yoga which totally was like erased the awful night and made me feel refreshed.

Then went to Jillian's son's birthday party which was nice and it was at her mom's house and she lives right behind (unclear) park which is up right behind the high school it was nice because I mean her child's at home like it's her grandmother's house that she grew up in, so it was nice. She had the party there. She had her friend doing face painting for the kids. There were lots of bubbles, chalk. But then the clouds came in and it got really cold. And it didn't rain, thank goodness, but it got really, really cold. So, after a while we left. But it was fun and her friend was also there whom I also know because of high school and we were like in the same crowd and all that. So that was cool seeing her and chat with her. And then I think I was upset with Stephanie again because she was like blowing me off and then we had all these plans to do all this other stuff and exercise and whatever, but by the time I got home I was like pooped from the whole weekend and you know, yoga is like relaxing, but it still is like using your muscles and –

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Stuff and doing stuff that I don't usually do. So, I just relaxed the rest of the day which felt really good and then I had a nice conversation with my mom and I talked a little bit about our last session and how we started to touch a little bit more on like esteem issues and like what's going on there in terms of my relationships and I'm like alone and she was like, you know yeah, like I really think you should concentrate on that because I mean I don't know. She thinks it started in high school, this like self-esteem thing with friends and I think she's right because when I got to high school freshmen year, Stephanie kind of like wanted to be with the cool kids. Lucy and Allison were kind of like doing their own thing. I didn't really know where I was fitting in. I was friends with Jillian for a little while. Then I met Mandy so I was (unclear) out with Mandy and a lot of the boys made fun of me, like they would make fun of me for being ADD, for getting frustrated. You know because we were together K through 8, like they had seen me run the gamut, you know, make fun of my braces, make fun of my big nose, like they were mean and I figure it was probably because I was pretty, like but they were 12.

But then some of that continued into freshman year so that, you know, once I got my braces off, to tell you the truth, like it was over and everybody was like all the guys wanted to talk to me and like I was all popular and whatever. But I think she's right because it did kind of start there and that for example, in college like I chose to spend more time with like Stephanie from the ghetto who I met when I worked at the gym and hanging out with the ghetto like more than like from the college people whom I was friends with at first but felt like they didn't want to be friends with me. And my mom thinks that it was in my head and it was a confidence thing so like I choose these friends that are – and boyfriends quite frankly, that are like lower than me because it makes me not feel like I might face rejection by like people who are more on my level, or something. That's like her theory about it, or whatever. Like, I'll share that. I mean I think there's some truth to it just in terms of how people treated me in 6th, 7th and 8th grade and Stephanie being a bitch. Like she's (unclear) out with all the cool kids and she'd be like having all the cool people over and I'd like find out and call her and then she'd like tell me she wasn't or tell me I couldn't come, that I wasn't cool enough because I didn't drink yet, or whatever. Anyway, and then, so, but the fact that just, that I decided, nope, but I did want to tell you about yesterday.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I got a phone call in the evening from my friend, Sveta, who is a friend – who is like one of like three people I kept on my Facebook friends list and I like told I'd like to stay in touch with of people I met through Franklin. She's the cousin of Franklin's crew leader and his girlfriend – boyfriend, whatever. So she's always been around and she's always been around everything. She's been friends with Franklin's sister – I met her like when we were in the first phases of dating and she's a few years younger than me and she does (unclear) and she does hip-hop and she teaches dance for little kids at studios and she teaches Zumba now. So she's a cool girl. I mean I've had my issues with her because she's kind of a drunk and like she sometimes is annoying in terms of like being too into hip-hop and like won't shut up. But she's a cool girl. So she called me to catch up.

We hadn't talked in a while. She had a two-hour drive ahead of her. She was like, ‘if you have time.' I was like, ‘great.' Because we'd been meaning to.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And like when Franklin and I first broke up I didn't really tell her what exactly had happened. I was like, ‘other girls.' And she was like, ‘well I can tell you he's never cheated on you and he told me that.' And this was when she was like friends with him like by his side. And I was like, ‘it's cool and I don't want you to be in the middle. That's why I'm not going to tell you too much and like I would never expect you to tell me anything about him.' Whatever.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So we're chatting, we're catching up. She's asking me if I'm like dating, how it's going – you know, we're just talking about work and life and goals and all that. Then I forget – of course, ultimately Franklin's going to come up. And I forget really what the context was, but she was like you know, me and Franklin had like a big falling out and like I don't – like now I don't even talk to him anymore, we're not even friends.' And I was like, ‘well, do you mind if I ask what happened?' She was like, ‘I don't know if I should tell you because like I don't know, you have to take it to the grave and what if you and him become friends again?' And I was like, ‘first of all, like I would never tell somebody something that you told me not to. I just wouldn't do that.'

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Like in reference to my boyfriend but I don't have a boyfriend, so the point is moot. Secondly, like I can promise you on everything that I literally will never, ever talk to Franklin again. Like it's just not going to happen. Never. I have no reason to and I'm never going to, ever.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And I can be sure of that and it's not like some, ‘oh, I'm just saying that now. No. This is months later and we're never going to talk again, especially now.' But, so she's like, ‘well, he did some real schisty stuff to me when we were in Texas.' And I remember she had told me they were going to Houston and this was like in early December, a month after we broke up. And I remember I was upset because I'd heard he'd met up with some girl and I'd recognized who she was because I had seen him talking to her and she – anyway, and then everybody was like, ‘I think he's her boyfriend.' I don't think he was there to see her, I think they were just like –

THERAPIST: Houston you mentioned.

CLIENT: Yeah. Whatever. Something. Exactly. So – no, no, that was Montreal. That was the girl in Montreal. There's so many, I know. So, apparently they'd like made this little plan to go to Houston. Then they decided they were going to stay with various friends. Then the girlfriend of one of the crew members decided to come. So they were going to get a hotel room and then Sveta and Franklin were going to (unclear). So I guess like then they decided they should rent a car and Sveta was like, Franklin, you have to do it because I'm not 25 yet. And he was like, ‘okay, no problem.' And she was like, ‘I didn't think to remind him about it or anything.' And I was like, ‘bad call.' And she was like, ‘yeah.' So apparently they got to the airport and she was like, ‘okay, should we see about the car? Like if you didn't rent it, like let's go rent the car.' And he's like, ‘well, I'm getting picked up by my friend and I'm staying with her.' Sveta's like, ‘dude, what the fuck?'

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And he's like, well, I don't know why you thought that we were ever staying together and like started like turning it around on her.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Obviously, because everybody's wrong except for him. And she was like really upset, crying on the phone, whatever, and he's like well, obviously just come stay in the hotel with us, or whatever. Like, that's awful. I can't believe he did that, this and that. And then apparently she goes to Franklin and she's like, ‘well, can your girl give me a ride at least to the fucking hotel where they're staying. I mean, what the fuck.' And then apparently Franklin was like, ‘well, yeah, of course, I don't see what the big deal is.'

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But he totally, I mean, this is so typical.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And characteristic. Anyway, so I guess they then decide to go out to a restaurant. They then get in a fight at the restaurant and they're screaming at each other. Franklin starts screaming at her in the middle of the restaurant, yelling at her like, ‘I don't know who you think you are, like, what are you trying to get with me.' And Sveta's like, ‘are you fucking serious? Like, who are you? I thought you were my friend, you know?' So it was a really bad weekend for her. She's like spending all of her spending money on cabs and like trying to figure out where she's staying. She paid for some of the hotel. He's like staying with the girl and coming back to chill whenever they want and she's like, ‘I don't know, I don't know about whether he was like fucking her or like what was going on, like I promise you he was – like he probably couldn't fucking wait. Like, finally I can meet up with one of these girls I've been talking to.' And she's like, ‘but that's not even the point. Like it doesn't even matter. I don't care what he was doing with the girl. The point is, he was my friend and he totally fucked me.' And I was like, ‘absolutely. You're absolutely right. Like it's awful. Even me, I don't care about the girl, like for you, that sucks. Like, I thought he was your friend.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Known him that long. And then I guess like some girl that she knows, like it was her last day because it was like, ‘are you kidding me, that's awful, I can't believe he did that like some of the other (unclear) friends of the hip-hop whatever, scene, (unclear), I don't know. They were all, there were some (unclear) people who know each other. And like took her all over and gave her a good last day which was really interesting and I told her this after, and I said, ‘this sounds exactly like my horrible trip out west when Franklin was awful and only wanted to hang out with other people, blame everything on me and we had a huge fight and then on the last day Jeremy saved my life and was like, ‘I'm going to now take you to all the tourist spots that Franklin wouldn't go to.'

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I was like, ‘interesting.' And she was like, ‘whoa, yeah, you're right.' And then she starts to tell me about – so I ask her about this girl. And this girl that – did I tell you that I got all upset because I found pictures of Franklin like saying, ‘drinks with my favorite person,' or whatever, tagged (unclear) girl. And Sveta's like, well, you know, I figure that I don't talk to him anymore and like, whatever, so I guess they kind of made up, her and Franklin, like she was like whatever, let's just squash it, it's whatever. Then (unclear) birthday and the girl was there. She was like well, the whole other thing is we definitely don't talk anymore because even if we had been like medium okay, that all stopped when I called her your name.' And I was like, whoa, ‘we're you just like drunk and forgot?' She was like, ‘no, she looks like you.' And I was like, ‘gross. Are you kidding me?' She was like, ‘no, she was like a younger, like ditzier, skinner person of you. Like, it's weird.' Like everybody talks about how weird it is, apparently. Like, whoa. What the hell. And I mean, when Sveta told her cousin, who was like yeah, why would you ever (unclear) a jerk like Franklin. Like he can't be trusted. He's all about himself. Like everybody knows this about him. I'm sure that they're like, ‘Trina made the right choice.' You know? So I guess they were driving somewhere and the girl was there and she was trying to be friends with Sveta but then that's off because she called her Trina. But they're in the car and Sveta's like driving and she's going that she kept saying like, ‘oh, are Trina and Franklin still behind us?' She just couldn't like, and then because the girl looks like me. Like, that's weird. And then I guess they were like – and then she actually called her my name and then the girl was like, ‘why'd she call me Trina?' And I'm like, I'm sure she knows who I am, like, how could she not? Or if she doesn't, then she found out then you know?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And, I don't know, just the whole, I mean I'm glad that I talked to her and like – oh, and apparently, the other thing, they received a letter from him – for him – did I tell you this? That was like from his job that was like giving him his Cobra options because of the end of employment.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I threw it away. Obviously, he can't afford $400 a month anyway, and I would never give him any of his mail of his ever. But I thought, maybe he got a new job, but I don't know where he lives, I don't know what he's doing. But then Sveta tells me that he got fired. And she goes, I don't get it. I thought things were going good for him. I'm like, yeah, when he was with me. Do you see the correlation of shit falling apart for him now that he's not with me? And she's like, ‘oh shit.' Like, you're right, you know? Like, couldn't get this trip, like have enough money to get the trip together. Getting fired. Like Jesus Christ. Like what the fuck was going on?

I was with this man like literally holding him together, like – and then the whole thing just made me feel bad and like I mean I felt justified more and was like whoa, I'm really glad, even more so. But then I was up a little bit in the middle of the night, like not being able to sleep because I just like felt gross about how he could replace me so fast and like actually replace me with somebody that like – like date a blonde. Don't date a girl with dark brown hair again, like – who speaks Spanish. The whole thing is just very – made me just feel icky and made me feel bad and made me feel like he just needs to be with somebody and I was just that somebody and lasted and was a cash cow and was there and he didn't want to lose it and then found the next best thing as soon as possible. When we broke up he was crying, I'm definitely never going to get married and I probably won't be in a relationship for a long time. I just need to be single and blah, blah, blah, You know. But like, no. And I don't know and he sucks but he's not alone and I'm alone. And I don't suck.

And like self-confidence-wise, like you have to bring me up because wow, look at what a pathetic loser he actually is, like friends don't even like him.

THERAPIST: It says both.

CLIENT: Yeah, but it says both because on the other hand I'm like (cross talk). Exactly. And like what the hell was I thinking? And why would I stay in that kind of abusive relationship? But just hearing Sveta talk about how she couldn't understand why the whole conversation got turned around on her and everything was her fault and he did nothing wrong and he was right all the time and you know what I mean? And I was like, ‘oh my God. I did three years of that.' (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:24:12 00:24:57]

THERAPIST: Well, it's kind of the same thing I think as with Saturday night where it's this very two-sided thing I think where on one hand you're there and you feel sort of disgusted by, and very much better than the people who were there. And yet, it seems to me you're working very hard to distance yourself from where you are, or who you're with, who you're around. And at the same time kind of feeling really ashamed about where you are. I mean that's what kind of comes across as you describe it to me as like you're talking about what lowlifes people are, how awful the club is, and yet you're also saying you waited in line for an hour and a half and you kind of knew exactly what you were getting into before you walked in the door. And it's a little like, well what are you doing there?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Because it's like –

CLIENT: Well, I didn't want to be there. Let's just set the record straight. I mean I didn't want to wait in line. I just was being a (unclear) woman because she wanted to.

THERAPIST: But you can say, ‘no.'

CLIENT: I know, I could have been like, ‘no, we're going to where I'm –

THERAPIST: And like, I don't care what kind of club. I'm not saying it because I have a stake or interest. I mean, whatever. But And like, I don't care what kind of club. I'm not saying it because I have a stake or interest. I mean, whatever. But you seem so ashamed of where you were and who was around and you seem very drawn to situations like that. I mean that's a lot of what you – there were other things that draw you to it, but that's a big part of it, I think, that on one hand like wanting to feel better than him and on the other hand, feeling so ashamed about who you're with and how you're being treated.

And I think the – I can think of a few other things – one is, I think the difficult part to sort out there is the part about what continues to draw you to places and people that really make you feel crummy about yourself like that. I mean, that make you feel really ashamed.

And I think there's another piece about how you talk about it in here with me where I guess I get the sense that like, I'm not sure this is right, but it is kind of feels to me that even if I'm sort of reasonable or respectable or something like that and so it's as though I'm going to be like, ‘you better distance yourself from all of this stuff in front of me because I have a very critical, like I'm going to think you're just hanging out with a bunch of lowlifes and fleabags and it's a really cheesy –

CLIENT: No I don't think that. I don't.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I don't think that you would think that. Like I'm not worried about – like I'll tell you if (unclear) Madge. And like want to be there. Like this is more about me being like disgusted by these people or something.

THERAPIST: Right. And you're also choosing to spend your time there.

CLIENT: Right. But it wasn't really my choice though. Like it was Madge's choice.

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: I mean I know it was my choice in the sense that –

THERAPIST: It was too –

CLIENT: I mean like (unclear).

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like where I don't have enough self-esteem to put my foot down and not do something I don't want to do.

THERAPIST: I think it is more, sometimes that you're actually drawn to doing it.

CLIENT: Why? Like why do you think that?

THERAPIST: Why do I think that? Because you say it all the time about 90% of the places you wind up on the weekends and because you say it about Franklin and most of the people he knew, who he was friends with were in his –

CLIENT: But why am I doing this?

THERAPIST: I don't know. I'm just trying to establish the what before the why and I think the why is that you're bound to be around people who you feel sort of very ashamed to be around or like in their company. And in a way, sure, okay, this is sort of Madge's initiative to go to this club, but I guess, because I wasn't there I'd kind of had a little difficulty imagining at what point you'd say, ‘no,' (unclear), ‘a half an hour, that's all I'm giving this place.'

CLIENT: Because I didn't want her to be mad at me or something or like I didn't want to be difficult or something. I think part of it honestly was that I didn't want to be anywhere and so after a certain point I was like –

THERAPIST: Yeah, but that's always a place you want to go, where you always wind up with people who wind up in places like that where you then can say it's really where you don't want to be.

CLIENT: But then, but like –

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: No. Like, yeah.

THERAPIST: Well, I mean I'm not sure. I don't know. It's you we're talking about.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because these places suck. Like, when you're with a group of girls and you're just like got just a bunch of girls –

THERAPIST: Oh, but clearly that's not the whole story. If they just suck, I can't see why you would end up in them.

CLIENT: Because I'm just trying to force myself to go out and like –

THERAPIST: Why are you forcing yourself to go to places that you have contempt for and to be around people you have contempt for?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean I did think like oh, yeah, we could try a new place. I had heard about this place that's like a nice easy mood, and doesn't have a cover charge and you know.

THERAPIST: Or maybe when you're trying to – Franklin and you and what happened to Sveta. It's like I mean everything you said. We could have guessed exactly what would have happened without even knowing the story. And you put it on there like you kind of enjoy like the fact that he's doing it again and feeling critical of him and -

CLIENT: Well, yeah.

THERAPIST: And then you sort of get a hit by the other side of this like, ‘oh my God. I was with him for years and I wanted to marry him and I'm really this together.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And that I think is sort of like wanting to be at the club you don't like part. You know, how do you – we don't like, I guess you're saying two things. You're saying, why do I do that? And then you're saying, no I don't really do that.

(Pause): [00:32:46 [00:32:56]

CLIENT: Do I?

THERAPIST: Well, you're saying, well, I'm just trying to get myself out of the house. I just want to go somewhere. I don't really know where I want to be. Or, you know, maybe if you're there with the girls and it's just you, that's okay. Or, well, yeah, I guess I really feel like saying, ‘no, I don't think I'm drawn to stuff like that.' Or, you know, that night is really what Madge wanted. I was just kind of going along for the ride. And I wasn't going to say no to her. And maybe you couldn't. And it that's true, that's important. But I think that if this is true, then, why do I want to do it? I don't know. I mean, I don't know yet. You're saying it's not even true. And maybe you're right, it isn't. I mean you say stuff like that all the time to me. And I mean, it could be related to this other self-esteem stuff, you know, in that maybe there's a way in which you're going to a superficial level to feel superior to people there but then underneath that you actually feel like you're not and so there's some way that you're just there to like feel crummy.

CLIENT: Yeah, like I'm just there. It's awful.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean it clearly sounds awful. I'm not hearing you get some kind of quiet enjoyment like –

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: There are times when people say like, ‘oh, I can't believe I did that. I can't believe I – you know they kind of had a good time and are embarrassed about it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: That's not the sense I get.

CLIENT: Like I literally felt sick to my stomach and like wanted to (cross talk).

THERAPIST: You sounded horrified.

CLIENT: Right. Like I can't believe you exist in life. Like I can't believe you're a person. Like I can't believe these people are (unclear), like this is insane.

THERAPIST: Right. Well I guess the other part is like what makes them that awful? Like why are they so reprehensible? I mean, like –

CLIENT: Just everything.

THERAPIST: Well, like what?

CLIENT: Like spending all that money on the stupid bottles. Getting really drunk. Like saying corny things. Having too much muscle or hair gel, like anything.

THERAPIST: What's so –

CLIENT: The girls are too blonde and skinny like, literally. This is like so like – the guys are too short like everything. Forget it.

THERAPIST: I get what you're saying about the kind of cheesiness and like it's very looks driven. It's very superficial. Like the people aren't really relating to each other. There is a lot of kind of machismo in different ways with both genders. Like it's very materialistic. I think I get what you mean, but you – I mean, there are probably a lot of things, a lot of different kinds of people out there in the world whose tastes you disagree with like I imagine you kind of feel like these are the grossest people in the world.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Right, I mean –

CLIENT: But I just felt – and it was totally out of my element. Like I just felt like totally, this is not my scene or my kind of, I don't know. Like this is not how I live, like I don't get, butt in in front of the line because I'm buying a bottle and because I'm with the rich guy with his little (unclear), or whatever. It's just not, and so to be around it just like made me feel like – ugh. I mean, I'm jealous of their money, I wouldn't be spending it that way.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I hear you.

(Pause): [00:37:34 00:38:52]

THERAPIST: I guess I've got to look at it like, ‘okay, you figure it out because if I actually wanted to be there in some way and didn't feel so awful, I don't even want to think about what happened.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly.

THERAPIST: (Laughs).

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: (Laughs).

CLIENT: Like you saying that I'm putting myself in situations.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: I mean it wouldn't make any sense except it seems to be what happens. I mean, put another way, I think the feeling as you go over the stories about Franklin and what he's like and you then you think about how you'd been with him. I think it's the same feeling of revulsion and disgust that you feel with the club.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: You know, and yet you stayed with him for a long time even though you really kind of (unclear) like that. And again, I want to be clear that I'm not saying – I do think there are other things that were good and that you enjoyed in the relationship. This is clearly not the whole thing. I think that's important to mention and I think it was a part you never really wanted to see.

CLIENT: Yeah, and it's the reason why I'm always in a lot of bad friendships or friends with a lot of bad people, or friends with a lot of low end individuals and kept putting myself in situations where I knew I didn't want or shouldn't be or don't have to be, but doing it anyway. And if this whole self-esteem thing – and I also hate that –

THERAPIST: What do you mean it's this whole self-esteem thing?

CLIENT: I think it's all self-esteem. Like if all low self-esteem. So I feel like maybe I don't deserve better or like something, or like want to be the one that's better so I end up in these situations where the other people that I'm with suck but it ends up making me feel bad but then I'm feeling satisfied but then it makes me feel – I don't know, so it's all fucked up.

THERAPIST: I'm not hearing sort of the alternative where you're like, ‘oh my God, I was with these other friends and I felt like I was such the idiot and I didn't have class compared to them and they were just so sophisticated and I was such a –

CLIENT: No. I avoid those situations.

THERAPIST: Do you tend to feel that way?

CLIENT: Sometimes, yeah. I think.

(Pause): [00:41:10 00:41:19]

THERAPIST: Do you feel that way with me?

CLIENT: No. But I feel like you're somehow like – well, no buts. It's just I don't feel that way because I feel comfortable with you because you seem to be the type of person that's similar to like how my family is and like how I was raised and with the same types of values and stuff. So no, I don't. I feel more comfortable, but there are certainly times where I feel like –

THERAPIST: (Unclear) class?

CLIENT: Yeah. Like sometimes with especially like when (unclear proper name) like walked me to (unclear) network events like at our events where donors are and stuff like that, like I'm not (unclear) with a lot of these people because they're like scholars and they've done like graduate school and PhDs and are lawyers and I'm like I don't know what to say. I do feel like – and it does make me feel bad about myself, but not as much as just like makes me not want to be in the situation which is I think why I've ended up in the other situations where I don't risk like saying something stupid or unclassy or that doesn't make sense or not know what they're talking about because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) but I think it's got to be something more because you know there's this big world in between the people who donate to your center and the people at this club the other day. Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like that's probably 90% of the world. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:42:58 00:43:06]

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: I'm not saying that's not right. Maybe it is.

CLIENT: I think also another big thing that I'm thinking about is like I really hate the fact that I don't feel complete without a boyfriend or without a man or whatever. And that's bothersome. Like I don't want to feel like that. Because I feel like I'm just going to make the wrong choice again or not find anybody. Or just be like so concerned about it that I'm –

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think a lot went on there in that, I mean it was something in a sense more obvious, in like being lonely, wanting somebody to do stuff with, the sex. Like you know –

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But other things as well like that. So those are kind of at the end.

CLIENT: Right. And I don't want to feel – like I don't want to feel –

THERAPIST: Of course you don't.

CLIENT: Empty without a man. But like –

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: People say that like, ‘oh you shouldn't feel like you need somebody by your side. But like I do and I don't quite know how to not feel like that.

THERAPIST: Right. I think that's important. I don't sort of understand why it is for you but I think it's important and I don't think it's just to decide not to feel, of course, and the really annoying thing is people saying that. Well, thank you very much, I'll just hit the off switch then because I really don't want to feel that way.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: Because I'm really enjoying it a lot.

CLIENT: Right. Like I understand the whole like think positive and positive things will happen. Okay, there is that.

THERAPIST: There's also recognizing how things really are.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: We should stop.

CLIENT: Okay. So I guess I'll just see you next Friday.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: All right, thank you.

THERAPIST: You're welcome.

CLIENT: Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: Thanks. You to.

CLIENT: (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Enjoy.

CLIENT: Thank you.

END TRANSCRIPT