TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Hello.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: How are you?

THERAPIST: Good, thank you.

CLIENT: Did you have a good [Memorial Day] (ph)?

THERAPIST: I did, thank you.

CLIENT: I think you were saying you were going to go hike or something?

THERAPIST: Yeah, I went hiking, yeah.

CLIENT: Where?

THERAPIST: In Pike's Peak.

CLIENT: Like, what state is that?

THERAPIST: Colorado.

CLIENT: (Laughter) (Pause) (Inaudible 00:36) (Laughter) I had my birthday, so... (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Happy birthday.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Thirty-one?

CLIENT: I'm not telling you. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: You're not telling me?

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm in denial about my age.

THERAPIST: Really? What don't you like about your age?

CLIENT: The getting older, you know. Like, all my 20s gone without having achieved much. I'm starting to compare myself with everyone now, so obviously, that's going to not lead to very nice conclusions. (Laughter) (Sighs) My life being a mess, you know. Like, so, it makes me very, very nervous about getting older. But whatever. (Laughter) [00:01:42]

THERAPIST: Today's our last session for a while.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, we'll see how it goes without [five days] (ph). I'm hoping I won't get in too much trouble because (inaudible 02:03), you know. So... (Pause) Yeah. We'll see. I mean, things are we'll see. I'll have to take a lot of initiative and see how that goes, if I'm able to do that. You know, stand up for myself. (Laughter) Because usually, it's just like, "Oh, yeah, whatever." Because it's weird. It's Nepal, and yet, for me, it's a new place, you know? It's an old place that's become new, and I have to depend on other people to take me around. So, like, I have to depend on Chris (sp?), basically, and work around his schedule. (Sighs) If I want to go somewhere and travel somewhere, I have to (inaudible 03:14) up to him to make (ph), tell me when he's free, and to buy the tickets and take us there. I really want to change that this time. So I'll see how successful I am with that. (Chuckles)

He (ph) was talking about it yesterday, about me going to this fun place. And he's like, "Okay, I have three days in June, and I can come there with you." And I was just like, "I wish I could just do not need you, but (sighs), I mean, it's actual, like, you know, personal safety." I feel afraid for that, so I don't know. I'll see what I mean, if I take him with me or just go by myself. It's hard to stand up to him. (Laughter) Not that he's, you know, like, a monster. You know, he's not. But (sighs) yeah, it's hard to have different opinions and, like, to defend them. And feel confident enough to have (inaudible 04:38). If I don't, I feel like I'm (inaudible 04:42) (laughter), you know?

(Silence)

CLIENT: Am I not a strong person, really (ph)? If I were to ask you, am I strong or weak? Or do I have my moments?

THERAPIST: Where's that question coming from?

CLIENT: Insecurity. (Laughter) I feel way (ph) insecure (laughter), now that school is over. There's time. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Are you worried about your depending on me?

CLIENT: No, on Chris (sp?) (Laughter) What do you mean on you?

THERAPIST: I'm just wondering.

CLIENT: About that question or...?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Well, I depend on everyone. (Laughter) Anyone who seems to be standing upright. I just kind of (inaudible 06:09). Not anyone but, you know, some people. If they seem open to the idea or they seem kind. (Laughter) (Sighs) (Pause) (Inaudible 06:40)

THERAPIST: I'm just trying to think of the question [you have] (ph). Do I think you're a strong or weak person? I don't know. That sounds like a booby trap.

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: (Pause) I don't know. Is there a good answer?

CLIENT: I don't know. You could say that, "Yes, you're weak when you go through blah, blah, blah." (Laughter) (Pause) I don't know. I guess I try to conceptualize a new me or a different me, where I can stand up to people, and I'm not or just, you know, like, a more secure me.

THERAPIST: Do you wonder then if I conceptualize you that way?

CLIENT: [People, yeah] (ph).

THERAPIST: Well, you asked the question of me.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So is the question do I see you as a strong person or someone who could be strong?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Sure, yes.

CLIENT: Yes to what? (Laughter)

THERAPIST: To both of those.

CLIENT: Because I've done certain things or...?

THERAPIST: Sure. [That's part of it] (ph). I also see you as anxious and insecure, but I don't think of that as opposed to being strong. I mean, you could be strong and insecure.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: But I think the issue is also that you're not quite sure how you feel about yourself, how strong you are, how much you can rely on yourself, and how much you need other people.

CLIENT: Yeah (ph). (Pause) All these questions just make me feel like, you know, I really should live by myself, and then, you know, I get scared. But, like, yesterday, I went to (inaudible 09:30). One of my teachers, she has published her second piece, and that just kind of I didn't think too much about it, but I guess it did kind of affect me. Not that I'm like, "Wow, she's on her third project." And, you know, she's done (inaudible 09:50). Her next piece, she's already got a draft down. (Laughter)

So, I'm just like, wow. I'm just not making any progress. What's up? What's wrong? Why? What's going on, you know? What am I doing? What am I not doing? Do I have it in me? [All of me] (ph) is just, like, not even butterflies but, like, [that I'm being] (ph) insects, just like eating my insides. (Laughter) Yeah. Just makes me very, very, very, very, very anxious. (Laughter) It's just, like, cut everything out. Put yourself in a box, and don't come out (laughter) until you're done or, you know, until you have a draft. (Sighs)

(Silence)

CLIENT: I guess when this moment of panic will pass, I will look at my plan and make, you know, adjustments and keep planning and keep reading (ph). And then, you know, the words will start. But, you know, being able to get there is my problem, right? Like, that's the problem. Like, the actual making myself do it.

THERAPIST: And what do you think stands in your way?

CLIENT: I see people as standing in my way. Like, when I had jobs, I mean, jobs were standing they literally were standing in the way. And my own impatience. My own insecurities stand in my way. Commitments to people.

THERAPIST: Do you feel that on a moment-to-moment basis, like, you can't when you have a block, [you're sitting in front of it] (ph), your computer screen, and you can't produce because you're feeling insecure? Or do you feel like it's more general than that?

CLIENT: I don't know in general. (Background noise 12:41) generally, but, like, getting there. Like, I don't complain when I'm actually sitting there. I mean, obviously, not every time I sit, I'm productive. But I don't mind. I still count those hours as work because I did put in the time. I was sitting. And if I wasn't working, I was reading or researching or something related. Some related work. So I don't mind if I didn't blog or whatever. I don't think of it as a block. I try to use that time productively. But it's the actual getting to the table, I think.

And then my negativity that makes me not even see the work that I've already put in that makes me go back and call (ph) my words. Ridiculous. Or not enough. Or pathetic. It's the hindsight -I don't even know if that's the right word, but (ph) that I'm afraid of. Like, I'll go back and call (ph) entire relationships or years as being [very bad] (ph) or depressing. (Laughter) Like, just because I haven't been able to get certain stories published, I will start hating them.

And then when I go back or I show it so someone, they're like, "Well, this is great." And I'll myself say, "Wow, yeah, there's some great things here." (Sighs) And to me, they're, like, useless because and then my professor (inaudible 14:35). "You know, you're impatient. You know, it takes, you know, multiple drafts and all that." And I'm like, "Well, I put in three months, and this is the first draft." And he's like, "Well, it's not enough. You need to work harder." (Laughter) So it's all, like I'm fighting with myself a lot, and I think that's why the friction comes in, because I fight so much with myself.

THERAPIST: What's the fight about?

CLIENT: I don't know. What do you think? (Laughter) [I can't think right now] (ph). Who am I fighting and what we're fighting about. (Pause) [Is this my own negative opinion of me or something] (ph)?

(Silence)

CLIENT: It's like I put in, you know, hours and hours of work, and then I go on the Internet, and then I'm like, "Wow, there are all these people out there who, you know, already achieved success." So I go back and I look at my hours of work, and I call it crap. (Laughter) So that cycle just keeps repeating, as it has been repeating for years now. It would be great to find a way out, you know, and to stop that. Instead of going in circles. Going forward, you know.

Chris (sp?) thinks I should just get offline, and I should at least, you know, limit my time on it. And I should stop comparing myself with others. (Laughter) But it's hard, you know? It's a damn hard thing to do, not to compare yourself to people. [00:17:12]

That's where I think strength comes into play, because if I am confident and secure and I have the strength, you know, I can will myself to do stuff that Iyou know, like, will myself to get rid of bad habits, you know. Like, (pause) not comparing myself to others and just being like, that's why I try to study Chris (sp?) closely, because he says he doesn't because he's just so emerged in his work. He's like, "There's just so much to do. Why in the hell would I waste time thinking about all these other useless things? Like, other people?" (Laughter)

Well, you know, his strategy is to just completely ignore a lot of things, whereas I want to be more (inaudible 18:16), a lot more (inaudible 18:17), and still know about people and be close to them. But have that filter where I absorb their positive energy and a little bit of their negative energy, but not to the extent that it just makes me like a time bomb. (Laughter)

But, I mean, yeah. So, like, (inaudible 18:41). If I could just be so solidly confident about my work, I wouldn't have to I wouldn't get moved, you know? I'd be immovable and more strong. (Pause) What do you think?

THERAPIST: I'm just listening. Do I think that's a good idea?

CLIENT: Yeah. Am I on the right track? (Laughter)

(Silence)

CLIENT: I'm very scared. [00:21:15]

(Silence)

THERAPIST: What are you scared about?

CLIENT: [I wish I could just] (ph) put my head down on a parent's lap and cry right now. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: What would you be crying about?

CLIENT: Because I had a little gathering for my and Chris's (sp?) birthday because it's, like, a week apart and we always celebrate together. And I invited a bunch of people. His friends and, like, a couple of my friends. Only one of my friends came, but everyone from Chris's (sp?) came. Or, I don't know. We have mutual friends too. But so one of his friends has [we have time] (ph)?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: One of his friends, he's very (pause) so he teaches in the same department as Chris (sp?) and same subject. And his wife was also there, and they have two kids. And he's almost like a big shot or coming up. He's Chris's (sp?) age and all, but yeah, he's earning a name for his work.

And so, you know, they were there and on the same couch with my friend, with her twins. She's, I think, a bit older than me. She's even more leer (ph) about her age. Like, we really don't know her age, but I think she's over 40. But I don't know. (Laughter)

So I was just looking at, you know, a cage (ph), the life of this man and my friend. It's just, like, whole worlds apart. Whole worlds apart. Just, like, Barbara (sp?) was just so drawn. Like, just so serious. And Eva (sp?) is like, you know, so happy, and her baby is so cute. She's so happy. She's such a happy baby. Like, all you have to do she woke up. She was sleeping when they bought her in, and she woke up. And I just, "Hey, baby." And she just, like, gave, like, the biggest smile. It was so (inaudible 23:54).

So I think of her just like her mom, you know. She's like, you know, like, on the surface, very talkative. If you get her started, she won't shut up. (Laughter) But she's a complete and total opposite of Barbara (sp?), who's just, like, it's so hard to I mean, she talks, you know. She forces herself to be nice and, like, happy. But I know she's very, very, very sad also because I think because of work. I mean, she hates talking about it, so I never bring it up. And, like, she's married to a husband who lives, basically, in another country. He lives in Russia, you know, and she doesn't have the best relationship with him. Like, she was considering divorce once and, you know, when she has, like, nine-year-olds.

So I was really scared by that. Just scared that (sighs) of, I hate to say it, ending up like that, you know? Of not really making it and not achieving my dream, and then kind of figuring out, okay, there's nothing else for me to do but to get married and to be married to someone that's successful, who I think is at least successful as Chris (sp?) and having his children. And then just sitting around at parties, just wanting to throw myself out the window, you know? While putting on a brave face. Maybe it's my negative spin on her, but I don't think so. I think I am accurate. That makes me very sad (inaudible 25:54).

THERAPIST: And why would you choose that kind of life?

CLIENT: I wouldn't have a choice.

THERAPIST: Why not?

CLIENT: I wouldn't.

THERAPIST: Why not? Why wouldn't you have a choice? Why would that be inevitable? I'm not following.

CLIENT: In my head, it is. I mean, it would be a choice. I guess it would a choice because on paper, on the surface and, you know, I supposedly love Chris (sp?). And if I cannot have a (inaudible 26:33) life of my own, I'd probably just piggyback on him, as I feel I've been doing for years now. And then, you know, since I want children, I'll just, you know, have his. (Laughter) (Pause) I don't want to be like that. (Sighs) I want something of my own.

THERAPIST: Do you think your mother felt like she lived somebody else's life and not her own?

CLIENT: When?

THERAPIST: Since having to marry your father.

CLIENT: You would have to ask her about that. I don't know. What do you mean someone else's?

THERAPIST: Well, I'm thinking about how you're talking about feeling like you're not going to be able to live your own life. You're just kind of living this sort of virtual life that's not your own. It's not something of your creation. You don't have a choice.

CLIENT: Yeah, she does. I mean, right? That's why she has that attitude (ph) of, "You ruined my life [for me] (ph)." Are you making a connection or...?

THERAPIST: Yeah, I'm wondering if this feeling you have about some inevitability of how your life will go that's not your own, that's not your choice, that's not of your own creative hand, that that somehow is an identification of her.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'll have to think about that. But when I was living with Chris (sp?) and my mom -and again, it might be, you know, that hindsight thing that I'm putting a negative spin on it -but I remember those days as being very, very depressing. I really, really hated them, especially Sundays, when we'd go into the suburbs to this giant Nepaln grocery store. I just feel completely trapped. I felt trapped. I mean, I think of me sitting in a car right now, and I feel it's a trap. Because I was doing something that wasn't of my own making. If I do that, if I live someone else's life, it feels like death. It's, like, the most depressing thing I've ever experienced. (Laughter) And (inaudible 29:17) I have experienced that quite a bit.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and yet, paradoxically, you seek it out.

CLIENT: Really? How do I seek it out?

THERAPIST: Well, you wanted to leave your old apartment because it was too much you. And then you imagine scaffolding your life around Chris's (sp?).

CLIENT: But I like that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. So then, I think you also find it suffocating. I think you find it both.

CLIENT: Yeah. Can't I have, like, an optimum state where there is that scaffolding, if I need it, if I'm falling? No, I'd rather not fall. I'd rather (inaudible 30:03). And then the lines around it are not too tight. They're loose, so they won't strangle me. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: That's certainly not the image that you just portrayed of, you know, not having your work take off. Not being actively pursuing that. Just having Chris's (sp?) kids and sort of feed off of his own success. That doesn't sound like the life you just portrayed, about the scaffolding and the (inaudible 30:33).

CLIENT: But that's what it feels like right now, though. I mean, that is the future, right? That is one possibility of the future. That's me just putting my face on Barbara's (sp?) body. And me right now, I feel I have enough leeway. I mean, I could have more, but if I lived on my own and visited Chris (sp?), like, everyday. (Laughter) I don't know (inaudible 31:05). (Laughter) I'm very insecure. (Laughter) (Pause) I think maybe it might be a good idea to try, once again, living separately in August. What do you think?

THERAPIST: I'm not falling into that trap.

CLIENT: Why? You can say. You can make, like, a recommendation. Like, a very strong recommendation. "You should try living on your own." (Laughter)

THERAPIST: First of all, when I make a case for anything, you always give me the opposite case.

CLIENT: I promise not to do that, for that, the living situation.

THERAPIST: Who am I to say? I don't know what's best for me. I can help you figure out what's best for you.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I could let me know if you have an opinion.

THERAPIST: I can't know what's best for you. (Pause) Sounds like living on your own last year was both good and bad. It seems like it gave you some confidence, and it gave you a feeling of expansiveness and excitement, and it seems like it felt too much. Too expansive. (Laughter) Not enough security. Anxiety about breaking obligations, both in a practical way, like feeling obligated to support your mother. But I think even more emotionally breaking obligations, being disloyal about living your own life. But it's a mixed bag. I can't tell you what's the right thing to do.

CLIENT: So if I have a goal in mind of finishing, what would be the right thing to do?

THERAPIST: Finishing...?

CLIENT: My project. A draft.

THERAPIST: I know even less about that. I know less about that. Because you know what motivates you, what hampers you. You know all of that. I don't know. I actually don't know. I know a little bit about your work, you know, in terms of just your schedule and what helps. But even that could go both ways. You could have more time on your hands. You could feel more free. You could also feel more guilty and feel like you have to take care of things that Chris (sp?) takes care of for you. You could go any way. I think your work would go better if you felt more secure. But how that security can be obtained... [00:33:50]

CLIENT: The security is emotional security or financial or both? Or...?

THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, I guess, you know, financial security is for it to feel emotionally secure. But I imagine for you its more emotionally. In some ways it's the they aren't antagonist to each other, which makes it worse, that to feel financially secure makes you feel emotionally insecure, and vice versa.

CLIENT: Wait. How?

THERAPIST: When you're financially more secure, when you have more money, like, and emotionally you feel like, "Oh, I'm not giving to my mother. Oh, I need Chris (sp?)." Kind of makes you feel insecure in some ways, and so you give up some security out of guilt.

CLIENT: That's true. Plus I need a lot more work to do, right? (Laughter) What do you think?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: (Laughter)

THERAPIST: I do think there's a lot more work to do. I think we have also done a lot of work.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: We've been meeting for almost a year now, right? It's probably been a year. You were in Nepal for, like, two months, and we were kind of off and on. But close to a year.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I think I came in in June last year, right?

THERAPIST: Yeah. And then you were in Nepal for July and August, but we still met some time. But it's basically been a year.

CLIENT: Yeah. [You're intensified] (ph), also. Because I think I used to come in just once.

THERAPIST: I think so too, yeah. I think you have a lot to be proud of in here.

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: Yes. You've done a lot of good work, and there's more to do. It's time for the second draft. [00:35:59]

CLIENT: Yes. Oh, god. (Inaudible 36:02) (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Well, [that's an] (ph) ideal metaphor, that you're feeling that, you know, you're in your 20s. First draft isn't even done.

CLIENT: Yeah. People find success at 25. I hate those people. (Laughter) It's okay. (Inaudible 36:38) Their parents are journalists. (Laughter) Like, they own at least three houses.

(Silence)

CLIENT: (Inaudible 37:53) I am hopeful. I'm looking forward to getting there, with my bags and my laptop. (Laughter) And, like, hunkering down? Hunkering down, right?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And then working. And then being like, "Oh, my god, the electricity is gone. I guess I'm going to read now." (Laughter) And then getting back with something. And then showing it to my professor, being like, "Look, I did it. I did something here." (Laughter) (Pause) Look away from judgment. Away, hopefully, from the Internet also. (Laughter)No judgments. Just, you know, my project. (Sighs) I'm giving my mom some money before I leave, and then (inaudible 39:11).

(Silence)

CLIENT: I'm just, like, so pissed by the unfairness of it, you know? Eva (sp?) and Barbara (sp?). Like, I mean, I like both of them. I guess I'm much closer to Barbara (sp?) because I spend hours talking to her, being depressed by her. (Laughter) But isn't that unfair? Like, how can you look at that objectively? I mean, you would be able to do that more, because you don't know either of them.

THERAPIST: What part of that is unfair?

CLIENT: Well, the fact that Eva (sp?) is so happy, and Barbara (sp?) isn't.

THERAPIST: I mean, I guess in a way, yes, life is unfair.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think that's true. I think one question is why you often pair yourself with one of the unfortunate ones.

CLIENT: I feel like I'm changing, so I could go either way. (Pause) I mean, I don't have Barbara's (sp?) husband. My "husband" or my boyfriend is much closer to Eva's (sp?) boyfriend in every way. But can I achieve what I want to achieve like Eva (sp?), you know?

THERAPIST: Well, Cecelia (sp?), we are going to need to stop for today. So just be in touch and let me know what you'd like to do about Skype or phone sessions. And then we'll also again, I think it's' the first week in august that I'm away, but we'll firm up, you know, meeting again in August.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Okay?

CLIENT: Sounds good.

THERAPIST: I hope you have a very good trip.

CLIENT: Thank you. I hope you have a great summer.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Should I pay you now or...? Because I [won't be able to pay her] (ph) until August.

THERAPIST: I don't know how much you can just pay her. I don't even know how much you'll owe me, so you can pay me in August.

CLIENT: Is that okay?

THERAPIST: It's fine. It's not a problem.

CLIENT: Okay. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Okay, take care.

CLIENT: Have a great summer. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Okay, bye-bye.

CLIENT: Bye.

[00:43:09]

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