TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: I have some stuff next week and actually can give you more notice (inaudible) this week. So I know there's some stuff on Monday morning. I've got 9:15.

CLIENT: Monday?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, that would be fine.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah. Cool.

THERAPIST: Okay, good.

CLIENT: So I want to tell you something that I've been keeping from you and I guess was from out of embarrassment or whatever.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So and like also I was like I kept like, no I don't want to work on it. At least that's why I didn't feel like telling you about this. I don't know. Anyway. So you that my friend, Sergio, that helped me with some car stuff that I've mentioned a few times, that he'd helped me with some, like bring me to a garage and other stuff do you recall? Well it doesn't matter.

THERAPIST: I remember the guy you were going to go out with -

CLIENT: Well, no, that was -

THERAPIST: That's a different guy.

CLIENT: Yeah, that was different. Right. Well, this is just a friend of a friend that I met through friends and anyway, he and I have been hooking up for the past several months, like kind of like on like a rebound guy status and like, because I'm lonely and bored. But the reason I'm telling you now is because I was like I'm not going to concentrate on it because I'd rather concentrate on other stuff, but this is like part of it because I don't even really like him that much, like he was totally just rebound guy that happened to be there and like was interested in me and I knew that because of like parties and he flirted and whatever with other friends.

And so we started like hooking up. The sex isn't really that great. I was just like basically like because I'm lonely and bored and want attention. But it's always really dissatisfying because it's like, fine, it's only momentarily and then like he sleeps over and then in the morning like well that was pointless and then he'll leave and I don't hear from him for a few days and then I tried to tell him a few times that I don't think that we should see each other anymore because like what's the point. I'm not even sure if he has a girlfriend because there's been this stuff on Facebook that I'd been like I don't understand, like you're going out with this girl. I see her posting pictures of you guys but like you tell me you're not seeing her and he always like convinces me to like still see him because he really likes me, and no, he's not seeing anybody and I'm so beautiful. He's not ready for a relationship because he didn't like having a relationship. Meanwhile he's been broken up for almost two years now, so like, get over it.

And I know he dates other people or whatever, but we don't ever go out and like finally one time he took me out to dinner. We were going out to dinner but like to the most random location ever that nobody would ever see us and so I don't know if that was strategy or like whatever. Like I don't know what, if he, I mean if he was just trying to do that to like get her to shut up about taking her to dinner so that we can still sleep with each other.

So then he writes me earlier this week and says, let me know if you're free to go away Friday or Saturday night. So this is a random new development. Like it might be fun. So like sure, what do you have in mind? Oh just something different. And then was kind of just really vague on details and made me feel like I was being annoying asking him for details. Finally I think on Wednesday I was like, 'so it's Wednesday, I don't know, if you want to let me know what you're planning so that I can plan my weekend.' And he's like, 'well, just go make plans then.' I was like, so then are we not doing something? And then I was like, you now what? Just forget it. I'm not going to make plans and wait to hear, until you tell me what we're doing. Please don't ruin my weekend. And he was like, 'just keep Friday night open' And then last night I'm babysitting and he says to me I said hi or something and like really I don't know what it's just an attention thing but like I don't trust him from the get-go and I have trust issues with men moving forward to begin with but like so nothing would ever happen with this guy anyway. And he likes to tell me, 'who knows what happens if you come back from Houston in two years if we're both single?'

And I'm like, 'what are you talking about? Like, you're retarded.' So then I said hi to him last night and he was like, 'hey, what are you doing?' And I was like, 'oh, babysitting,' and he was like, 'okay, well if you're not too tired let me know when you are headed home and I'll come over.' I was like, 'what? I thought we had plans for tomorrow.' And I was like okay, I'll probably be too tired and like he was pretending to be all cutesy about it. But my theory is, he's just trying to like make me think that he has a plan so that he can be like, 'oh, sorry, something came up with work, I can't do it.' So that like there is no plan. I have no this is my thing, I'm like trying to call him like on bullshit.

And so I'm still in the dark about what you have planned for me tomorrow night. Hee, hee. And then he doesn't text me back. And that was like 8:30 last night and I haven't heard from him since. And the way I was looking at it, first of all, I'm not even that interested in him. And the sex isn't even like something that's even, 'well, one last time,' you know? I will feel bad after because even if we do something it's so going to be like status quo afterwards and it's just going to be like he got me to shut up about hanging out with him like on a dating basis for one.

So I made a decision this morning, like with Stephanie. And Stephanie's been really supportive of this whole Sergio thing even though she's been like, 'I don't think that you should see him, like, it's not good for your self-esteem,' and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's right. Even though he tells me I'm pretty and loves my body and whatever. That's neither here nor there, though when it comes to like him not actually trying to date me, you know? And we've only actually been out like twice. So I made the decision that regardless of whether men are bad, worse than women at planning and are not good at like setting dates I know that. Okay?

But by midday, the day of like that you told somebody to reserve their whole fucking night and I don't even know if he meant just tonight or what time I would get home tomorrow or what the fuck, that either way, like first of all, me and Stephanie are like totally convinced that it's going to be that it's bullshit and that it's going to be like something came up, you know? But either way if he says to me like, oh you know, sorry I can't I not even going to text him all day. I'm going to wait to hear from him. If it's 'oh, you know, something came up. I can't, sorry.' You know. It's going to be like, 'called it.' Like I already think, thought of my text back: 'called it. Good thing I made other plans. I don't want to see each other anymore.' And if he says, 'oh, so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I will pick you up at whatever, I'm going to say, 'oh, you know what I didn't hear from you so I made other plans and I don't want to see each other anymore,' And I really want to stick to it this time because really I just keep stating like I don't, there's really no point in my seeing him and I don't want to see him but then like I'll be lonely and he'll text me and I'll be like, 'sure, come over.' But like really, it's not that satisfying and like I said like in the morning I just feel like shit again, like I'm still alone, like he's not like, 'let's have breakfast.' Like nothing, like just like, 'gotta go to work,' you know?

Meanwhile he's in pictures all over the place with like this other girl who he says he stopped seeing, was seeing, but stopped seeing and now she's just a friend and I was like, 'hmm. Typically, like you tell somebody you don't want to see them, date them like after you've gone away with them for the weekend, have sex with them, dated them, gone out in public with them. Like I don't know why she would still want to hang out with you, like why you'd be like, 'oh, we're such close friends.' I mean like I've seen like pictures like parties that he brings her to, whatever. Like I can't believe that there's any, like, 'no, I don't know why you don't believe me, like I'm not dating her. You're the only one that I'm sleeping with and seeing,' and da, da, da, da, da.' But I have no reason to trust him, like there's no valid reason for me to trust him. But then I get lonely and like say yes to come over, but like really, this time I don't if he convinces me like, 'oh, no like I don't want to stop seeing you,' like da, da, da, da, da.

But this is very game playing and like it's clear that like he just wants to keep his consistent booty-call and I'm not into it anymore and like because I'm going through this angry phase of my break up, like angry at Franklin, hate him, like all this stuff, like it's kind of like residually like affecting my attitude towards everything else like, 'well fuck this,' like, 'fuck you.' Like, I'm not I don't need people that are going to be toxic to me and so that's what's going on.

(Pause): [00:08:30 00:08:33]

CLIENT: I mean, and then in the meantime like I've been up and down, I'm up and down all the time with like depressed and like fine. Like all the time. This whole week is like one day I'll be fine and the next day I'll be like like one day I'll be like, 'oh no, it's fine, like I can handle myself and then last night I was at babysitting and the baby was asleep and I was sitting there and I was like, 'I don't even want to do this move alone.' Like I don't even, like it's not even that fun, like I want to do it with somebody. I don't want to be like I don't want to I want a person, like I don't know.

You know, so I started getting all excited about that again, but then like this morning I was like feeling more empowered like no, what the fuck. Like I just want to hang out with people that like me and are sincere and aren't just like trying to get something for their own I mean everybody is trying to get something for themselves out of every relationship. Like fine. But there's a give and take, you know, and I'm not really getting much from him besides like not great sex and like that's it, like I mean we finally planned the time to go out to dinner and I was, okay, cool, I'll get dressed, I'll look nice. He takes me to Duke's he's like, 'oh I'm craving Duke's.' Okay, Duke's is like in Costs Mesa and is like this area that they renamed Duke's because it's like a whole planned community thing with condos and condos and there's like a boardwalk.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like a harbor thing. And I was like, 'okay. I don't know what you mean by that. I thought it was a restaurant,' and so like sure. But no, it was because it's going to be dead, because it's not summer, and nobody's there and who the hell would ever know either of us there? And it was like, 'okay, you're hiding me?' Like I don't understand. Like I'm hot. I don't know what you're talking about. Like I'm not like your secret fat girl or something. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So that set me like, 'yeah, I'm done.' But then I continue to like say, 'okay, sure, come over,' if I was lonely and he had texted me but this whole thing with this weekend and asking me to go away and getting me kind of excited about it like oh, maybe that's fun, like maybe you know, he actually wants to spend time with me for once. But then being super vague about it, making me feel bad about wanting to know the details about it, like I don't this is like very in keeping with my issues with men. And I pick the wrong ones or just not like I ever thought that a relationship would come out of this.

Like maybe in the beginning I thought maybe we could date, but like when it comes down to it, like he is rebound guy and it never really works out. Maybe in Stephanie's case it will with Aiden, who knows. But for me like it always just was just like rebound, get back at Franklin, hook up with somebody else kind of thing and then lonely and then whatever. So like I never assumed anything would happen. You know, he told me a thousand times over that he's not ready for any kind of relationship and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like you're 31 years old, Sergio. Like don't I'm not stupid and neither are you. And he's not stupid, like he's a smart guy, like went to Vassar and he's a smart kid. You know, like he owns a business, but he's just acting like a real typical asshole and I'm really in keeping with just gravitating toward assholes.

(Pause): [00:11:50 00:11:55]

CLIENT: And then I think that also partially this is like I thought, 'oh, well I'm already hooking up with somebody.' Even though I was single and stuff, but then now it's like Franklin has trumped me by like becoming involved in another serious relationship, you know, so I'm kind of like I'm over it, you know. And I'm angry at Franklin and I'm sort of imagining them having sex, him and his new girlfriend, and got all upset about it and wanted to throw up because I hate him and especially toward the end of our relationship I didn't want to be physical with Franklin at all. Like I feel like in the last year of our relationship I really was just pulling away from him physically big time you know. And I just don't want to be saying like to Stephanie, to you, to myself, like to my office mate, Kate, who I talk to about this, you know, like no I'm going to tell them we're done and then not be done somehow, on like a lonely night or something.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Or let him convince me like that he's not bullshitting me and kicking me around, so to speak. And I mean, I'm not mad at myself for like I'm not saying, 'oh God, I'm so stupid, like I should have ended this months ago. Why am I doing this to myself? Because that's pointless and I know why I was doing it and like I know why you know, why I was seeing him and I understand.' But I don't want it to get to a point where I do feel like, oh, what did I do? Like why am I you know, and then or like, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I mean like it's all the same thing that I've been recognizing, like I don't feel like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I'm not like a nymphomaniac, dying for sex so I just have to have somebody, you know. So like why am I depending on somebody that's really not dependable to like provide me with some sort of a security about not being alone all the time? And I mean I think that combined with a lot of this also goes hand in hand with like Stephanie having somebody to like, you know, and so like especially on nights when I've been blown off with her, it's been particularly like, 'may as well see Sergio,' you know?

And like when he sleeps over, he's like, 'can you close the door so the cats don't get in?' And that really bothers me. It's like that's another reason that I'm like, 'nah,' like I don't want to like actually the other night he asked me if he could come over and I straight out told him like 'nah,' actually like I really don't want to lock my cats out like I really enjoy them being able to do whatever they want in their house so I'm choosing them over you.

THERAPIST: Uh huh [yes].

CLIENT: And he didn't respond to that, whatever. Like it's I think I'm also just like, 'who do you think you are asking me to reserve a whole fucking night and possibly half the day tomorrow for going away like you fucking suggested and then don't follow up and give me a fucking plan?' Like, what am I? Like chopped liver over here? Like sit and wait until I tell you what the fuck we're doing. Like you're not my boyfriend. If you were, then fine, I'd sit and wait until you tell me what we're doing. But like and then he keeps saying, you know, well, I'm not trying to play games. Because when I approach him about like, hey what's up? Are you this person's boyfriend? I'm not sure. Then he goes, 'whoa, Facebook. This is so childish. I'm not trying to play games.' He's playing games, like this is a game. This I like the I don't know what the hell he's doing. And then of course, my Jewish guilt. I'm like, 'oh, but what if he did like get a hotel or something? And like have some cute plan and he's spent money and blah, blah, blah. And so Jewish guilt aside, Trina, like what about your fucking feelings? Like fuck his money. Fuck him. He can find somebody else to go with. Or, go fuck himself.

(Pause): [00:16:12 00:16:39]

CLIENT: I mean like a mutual friend that I know, Rita, doesn't even know that we've been seeing each other for a month. And like I've been in like places with them together and like at her birthday party and like him and I were dancing, like we went out to a club, whatever, and him and I were dancing and like a lot but like, and he was kind of making a scene of it, but still like nobody would know.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And like I even brought it up like, 'so can I like tell Rita I'm seeing you?' Or like and then he doesn't respond or whatever, you know? And I think it's because he has a girlfriend. Or is just like I don't know. But I don't want to be involved in it anymore.

THERAPIST: Uh huh [yes].

CLIENT: And I have all the power in terms of like not being involved in it but it's as if like I say that I want to, but then I'll feel lonely or sad and I'm like, 'eh who cares? Like, what difference does it make? But then it does make a difference because then afterwards I'm like, 'ugh, that was pointless.'

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And I'm like, I don't even I mean we did go out to dinner. It wasn't like it was like great conversation and so fun even. You know? It was like, 'neh,' like if I had gone on a first date with him like I went on with the car dealership guy, first date and it was not so good. Oh, wait, I didn't tell you about it. That was last week. Oh God. It was not good. But if I had done, if I had gone on a first date with Sergio before like this whole hooking up and know each other through friends, like I probably wouldn't have gone out with him again. Like, because I was just he's not the date. It was pouring rain. I had gotten home on Friday night and was like debilitated by this anxiety about this date.

THERAPIST: What's this guy's first name?

CLIENT: Thomas.

THERAPIST: Thomas, okay.

CLIENT: I was like debilitated by this like anxiety about not wanting to go out. About it being pouring rain and cold and just wanted to lay on the couch and wish I had somebody to lay on the couch with or even would rather just do it alone and I didn't want to get dressed up and he had this plan where we were supposed to go this bar that's supposed to be cool and it would be a good first date bar because it's like an interactive bartender, kind of like Chicago style. The bartender like asks you what cocktails you like and brings you different things based on your taste and it's fun. You get a conversation going. Like it's less like pressure.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So he shows up to pick me up. I finally like get my shit together, like pulled it together, dressed cute, like put on a nice little bar outfit, low heels, whatever. He picked me up. I forgot my umbrella. He doesn't have an umbrella in his car so then he says, 'oh so I made reservations at this restaurant called (unclear) in Belmont. And I was like, 'what happened to the bar plan?' But I didn't really want to ask because who knows, maybe he got nervous and changed it, thought this would be better, whatever. Then he's like don't worry about it we can use my jacket to cover us as we walk, whatever. And I'm like okay. Obviously, there was no parking anywhere because it's like right on Main Street there next to (unclear) or whatever. And I was like well first of all I was like you should just drive around a little if we're early, like you should just wait because the meter maid was out. And then when he didn't offer to drop me off, which in a situation where I actually like a person, I probably would have been like, we'll walk together. It could be cute, like oh, we're cute with the jacket.

THERAPIST: Like (inaudible).

CLIENT: Like funny, like get to know you, like first date thing. But he didn't offer. So then I like had a joke like, 'or you could drop me off, whatever,' because I'm the fucking girl, you know.' But no, we parked around the corner and as soon as we walk up to the restaurant there's a parking spot right in front. And he's like, 'oh you were right, we should have driven around more.' I didn't say anything. And he's like kind of short, like kind of chubby, wore sneakers. I mean, not like white tennis sneakers like black leather like nice hip hop style, you know, which I would think is cute and nice looking if it were a different occasion.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Or maybe if we were going to the bar. But you chose the restaurant, you made the reservation. It was on the Boston top 50.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: It's your responsibility to dress appropriately and I'm wearing heels, you know? And I know he has shoes. He has to wear a suit to work, you know? So okay, fine. We get there. It's like have you been there?

THERAPIST: A long time probably like 12 years ago.

CLIENT: It's like a little room, like white tablecloths, three course, like fancy.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It's like an upscale restaurant.

CLIENT: Right. Which is very nice, very good choice, like expense and really, really good food. So can't knock him for that. But God-awful first date choice because it was like a three-hour fucking interview.

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: Like in a corner like and after 45-minutes I knew I wasn't interested.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So a bar would have been perfectly appropriate. An hour, maybe two. That's it. And you can make your pitch. This I'm stuck with a three course meal that I have guilt about the expensive meal and the $34 entrees and he's asking me a million questions probably because he's nervous and probably because I wasn't talking at all because I was like and so I'm just like faking my smile the whole time and then this is a problem because then he like thinks I'm actually like interested and so I couldn't wait to get out of there. Then he says to me (unclear) during the week when we were texting that we both smoke weed. Okay? So then like we're like getting close to the end of dinner and he's like, 'so do you want to smoke after this?' First of all, I don't care if we both smoke weed. You don't fucking do that on a first date. That's like once you know each other and you're hanging out and you're like, 'let's smoke a J, you know?' I'm not 22 anymore. Like please. And I was like, 'oh, well, you know I have to get up really early so I'm just going to head home.' And he had already told me that he needed to make it an early night because he had to work the next day. And then I was like, you brought it with you? And he was like, well, no, I have to go get it at my house. And I was like, 'what?' So now you're really making it awkward, like we're going to drive from Belmont to Asbury Park to smoke and then what? Like what? And he reminded me actually of my ex whose name was Thomas when Thomas was 25. So it doesn't bode well that a 38-year old is reminding me of a 25-year old. And I'm sorry, 38, never married, no kids where's that?

Like sorry, but unless you have some huge, major career in business or whatever that you've been but no, you're a manager like, assistant manager at a car dealership. You don't have something that's (unclear) to me. And also I thought, oh, 30-year old, maybe that's more mature. Like no. He was not and he was like Asbury-ghetto and uneducated and just like an hour would have been fine. Like to the point that after he dropped me off, like I just 10 minutes later forgot what he looked like. I mean, I was that kind of disinterested. After three hour sitting in front of this man. And he had written me like, 'oh, I had a great time.' Oh, and at one point he was like, 'you're really beautiful, you know that?' And I almost was like, 'yeah, I know.' Like, literally, like I do know, like and you're not that attractive and short and chubby. Like I don't have to tell you. But I didn't. I just said, 'thank you,' you know, like thank you very much, you look nice as well.

And he wrote me like, 'had a great time, hope we can do it again sometime.' And I wrote back and I said, 'thank you so much, have a great night. Talk soon.' Which could essentially mean never. And then he kept writing texting me again and he texted me on Monday and said, 'hey, good luck with your interview" because I had told him about the interview and that was very nice. And I said, 'oh, thank you so much. Hope you had a great weekend. Like trying to be polite but not indicating that like I necessarily want to continue and then he texted me last night, 'how'd the interview go?' So you know I was like, 'oh, thank you so much for asking. I hope you're having a good night,' whatever.

But it was not good and I just woke up the next morning feeling like crap like I don't want to date, I don't want to this, And that was what my whole thing was when I was getting ready for it, like how many times I'm going to have to do this, like how many times am I going to have to feel this weird anxiety about like going out with somebody I'm not that interested with and I mean it was good practice in the sense that, okay, I did it. First of all, I went on my first date like because I don't count with Sergio. That doesn't count, like. Secretive dinners and anyway, plus I already knew him so it wasn't like the first date.

And it was good practice because it not only showed me that I can do it, because I did it. But that I'm not going to get picked up on first dates anymore because I'm going to want to have my own car and if I want to leave, I want to leave. And I'm going to also not ever let it be a dinner for a first date ever again. Coffee or maybe lunch or a drink or two. Unless I know that I am really I'm not going to know the person a little better and know that I would be interested in spending a few hours with them and dinner. So, but overall my date was shit.

(Pause): [00:25:46 00:26:08]

CLIENT: And let me just mention one more thing. The other reason that this also made it really bad he asked me questions like, 'so, were you and your ex going to get married? Were you sad when you broke up? How many kids do you want?' I mean, these are not first date questions and that's the thing that sealed the deal. I'd forgot about that part.

(Pause): [00:26:25 00:27:03]

THERAPIST: It does really seem to me as though you kind of have to be in a situation that's making you feel really quite ashamed in order to allow I think yourself to sort of be paid attention by a guy? And I think, and there's certainly a lot of that in both the situations you describe. And also I think here with me as well where you kind of feel or in a way turn in your mind all this stuff and the stuff you should be feeling horrible about and I'm not quite sure sort of where that leaves you with me. I mean clearly with your not telling me all this stuff about Sergio, I don't think it's quite like you think I'm going to be critical of you. That doesn't sound like it's quite what it is.

CLIENT: No. It wasn't. I really don't know and like Stephanie kept saying, 'I don't understand why you're not talking to Ethan about this.' Yeah, every time I talk to her about it.

THERAPIST: Right. I mean I, I mean it's something like, well I know you won't be but I kind of feel in a way, I imagine you'll be thinking (unclear) or whatever. But I don't really get the sense that that's what it is.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: You know, it occurs to me that it might be the thing that seems it would be the opposite is like the other side of that, that you might be really uncomfortable talking about it because you don't think I would be critical. And you might feel less ashamed. That sounds actually more plausible to me.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I think it was -

THERAPIST: And I think there was something about feeling sort of setting these things up, either externally or just internally to make yourself feel ashamed that seems very important for some reason. I don't know if it protects you from feeling guilty or protects you from feeling anxious, or feeling lonely. I'm not sure. But I mean it's sort of this is most obvious on the date you know like, okay, he's not that attractive, the guy. And you know, it's like you're not compatible, you're not into it. Fine, but like so many of the things you describe have the sound to me like you're feeling kind of, 'oh my God, what the fuck am I doing here?'

CLIENT: Yeah. That was my feeling. Like I was so tense the whole time.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Why am I here right now?

THERAPIST: And you know it's a first date. You didn't know him.

CLIENT: It's a date.

THERAPIST: Who really cares?

CLIENT: Right. And that's what Stephanie said. She was like, 'who cares?' It's a date.

THERAPIST: If (unclear) was in a relationship with him and I said, 'oh my God, what am I doing with this guy?' Plus you're out at a nice restaurant and he just turns out not to be somebody you're into, or whatever, you know, the feeling's like, 'oh my God, I can't believe he did this. And can you believe this guy? What the hell am I doing here?' And it seems really kind of like a security blanket in a way. I mean, not the most comfortable one but some of the way you seem. I mean a lot of the way you seem to be managing probably like first date, the first first date jitters.

(Pause): [00:31:24 00:31:34]

THERAPIST: But I guess it's not what it is you're worried about that he'd be doing that. But with me, again, I sort of imagine you would anticipate that if you had talked earlier about Sergio with me like -

(Pause): [00:32:03 00:32:29]

THERAPIST: I mean the thing I can imagine us coming to I was thinking back to when we talked about Franklin and it was really upsetting when talking about Franklin was like I was sort of waving my arms around saying I think you're pretty much in denial about some stuff that's going on.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And you really don't want to see it because you really wanted things to work with him. And (Pause) then again like I don't think you're that anxious to hear those things from me. You're sort of like it wasn't like you didn't know or get what I was saying. Clearly, you did, but you obviously thought it yourself and it sort of took a while for you like to kind of let that in, in a way. I'm not sure that that's like I can imagine some sort of echo of that I mean some echo of some of those.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean you made it very clear to me that it isn't what you want and isn't going to become what you want and yet you're really excited about the possibility that you rented a hotel room or that you guys would go out. You know what I mean?

CLIENT: Right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: There are kind of two sides there. I guess you seem to have the more you struggle with this the more attached you get.

CLIENT: Yeah. And that's exactly right. And you know, I kept telling myself you know, well I don't really care to bring this up to Ethan because it's not like a big deal and it's just like my booty call and I want to concentrate on the stuff that really does make me upset with him. I don't want to waste time with it and I don't want to waste my time and I think it wasn't that you would judge me or -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But like it does have to do with everything that's going on with me. Like I'm not separate.

THERAPIST: Like the other stuff.

CLIENT: It's not like well, I can work on this stuff with Ethan but then I can still see Sergio but then I still feel like shit and then it filters into the rest of the reason why I feel like shit and the whole thing. I mean about the date, it was like as if I wanted to like as if I set myself up to be like, 'I really don't want to do this. I have to do this for God knows how many years with God knows how many guys that I'm not interested in and then it was like I was tense, I didn't really like him, but instead of like you said, just be like, it's a date, like okay, who cares. Like who really even cares if I like faked my smile the whole time like it's just like, instead of that, I turned it into like, 'see, Trina, and everybody else, I told you, like I told you dating sucks. I told you it was going to suck. I told you it would be shitty. I knew it was not going to work out. I knew I wouldn't like' you know.

THERAPIST: (Cross talk) meaning you, like I think you feel like such a schmuck for being there.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like why am I here? This is so pointless.

THERAPIST: You really have, I mean, what the hell, you didn't have -

CLIENT: Exactly. Yeah.

THERAPIST: If you're so if you feel like such a schmuck -

CLIENT: Totally. And I mean like a little bit of a schmuck with Sergio. I mean not to mention this one, yeah, but when it comes down to it like we do get the last laugh, so to speak, because like he's way more into you physically then you are into him physically and so it's like he will be the one if somebody's going to be like, 'on no, let's still see each other,' it would be him. In that sense she's right.

THERAPIST: Another thing I guess I wonder about is whether like there's something about I don't know, if you do or when you do feel reliant on me, or attached to me that makes you feel bad.

CLIENT: Well, I think that a little bit just in the sense of like not really knowing how to deal with my own sadness and like depending on you to like help me figure out why I don't know how to deal with it or why I can't deal with it or how to deal with it. And so like I think that you're right, yeah. There is that sense.

THERAPIST: I think you feel like you're really not supposed to really need anybody. And when you do it really fucks you up.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think especially in light of the break up and everybody telling me I need to be my own person and I need to be my own best friend and all of this stuff.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and you've been telling yourself that since you were probably 10.

CLIENT: Yeah. And stuff like in the context of everything that's going on, it does feel like then I shouldn't need this and I shouldn't have to depend on Stephanie to you know, be my only friend.

THERAPIST: And would that be part of the shame because it sounds like you're trying to teach yourself a lesson, you know, be like there's one part of you that's going to make you feel so ashamed if you get into a situation where you might get attached to somebody, to show you how much you shouldn't do that.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: You shouldn't want to feel that way.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And at the same time you're awfully lonely and so you're kind of stuck.

CLIENT: Um hmm, but I mean what I think about like feeling lonely tonight, as opposed to doing a plan that I feel like I kind of don't want to do with somebody I'm not that into, I'm leaning more towards feeling lonely.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because then it's like at least I'm feeling lonely alone as opposed to kind of feeling lonely with somebody.

THERAPIST: Right. We should stop.

CLIENT: Okay. So I'll see you Monday morning 9:15?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Okay. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure. Take care, Trina.

CLIENT: Thank you. Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

END TRANSCRIPT