TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: So it's been a roller coaster week with this apartment hunting thing going on and I've just been up and down the whole time like it's what I can afford, but I don't want to live with somebody but seeing like I have to because there is literally nothing I can afford that's a one bedroom. Unless I want to move like to Irvine, and so like ridiculous. So then I was like okay I'll start looking for a roommate so I sent a message out to all of my friends and one girl I went to Hebrew school in high school and college with, actually, but who I was not really good friends with, she was like her sister might call and we talked throughout the week and we were going to meet on Sunday, which I'm going to have to explicitly cancel because we were talking and I was already a little bit wary because she's like three years younger than me, moving out of her parents' house in Anaheim and has a boyfriend. And I don't know if the boyfriend lives with his parents. I wouldn't doubt it because he is you know Trevor (sp?), he's in Anaheim.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I feel like it's the right thing to do to leave your parents. So he might. But even still it's going to be hard for her first move, like she's been living with her parents. So I asked her, 'how often does your boyfriend stay over?' And she's like, 'oh you know, two or three times a week,' equals four or five, six times a week because I know how things work and have been there. Whatever. Then so we're like am I going to sign a because I can't make like monthly like you have to be clean and tidy, like you have to be cool, like you can't have a boyfriend. Like I can't do that. But then she sends me a message, 'P.S. I have a toy poodle. She's super sweet and well behaved.' I was like first of all, maybe you didn't get the memo that I have two cats. Second of all, I wouldn't want to live with a dog even if I didn't have cats. I don't want somebody else's dog. Are you kidding me? So what, when you're not there I have to take it for a walk and things? I don't have a dog. I have cats for that reason, so I don't have to do shit. But it's moot because I'm not bringing my cats to a new place with a new person and then a dog. Like they hate dogs. I'm sure they can learn to be okay with it. But I'm that's not like a sacrifice.

And then all these ads on line are like 'no smoking, no drugs,' which I'm not okay with because I want to be able to smoke pot in my room or in the living room and have friends over and/or like we have cats, like looking for apartment, or like I have a dog. Also the whole thing with a dog is, you lower your options for apartments like extremely. Like I'm already lowered enough with the cats, but more places allow cats than dogs. And/or like when people are looking for a roommate, especially in Dupont they're like, one of them was like, looking for a fun, funky female roommate with a low carbon footprint. I was like what? Does this mean I can't use paper towels for everything? Or like 'looking for somebody to help with the garden. Like, we're vegan.' I'm like, 'not awesome.' So I've been really emotionally up and down all week because I feel a little bit hopeless and I mean even looking at $1800 $1900 places it's slim pickings and I can't even like afford that.

I talked with myself a lot about it. My father, when I told him -

THERAPIST: Are you looking at a lot of places that are one bedroom or two?

CLIENT: Two. When I told my father, his response was, 'good.'

THERAPIST: I don't know what the market (unclear).

CLIENT: It's bad.

THERAPIST: I gathered that. Anyway so -

CLIENT: If I made more money.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'll tell you in a second what everything (unclear) to give you a little better idea -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What this awful market is. My father said, 'good, I'm certainly glad you're staying and now, you know, yeah, moving is an option so just hang in there for a while until you can figure that out. It was like, I literally just told you that I realize the main source of my unhappiness is where I live currently and you responded by telling me to hang in there. Like fuck you. Tracy's been supportive, I mean, not of like me looking for a one bedroom because they're too expensive, but like I think you should just continue to look at apartments and also to find a roommate. But I'm concerned that you know, I find an apartment for August or September, leave if I find what I want and, and what if I'm still looking for a roommate because I want to be a little picky. I wasn't picky with Mindy and look what the fuck happened. It's awful you know.

Mindy opened the door by accident. Oh, Mindy's in town and she's staying with me and that's great. So this morning after I left for work she went back and like opened her door because there was like a lot of noise in the hallway and she accidentally opened and she said, 'I have never been more disgusted in my entire life.' Like there were cups and bowls in the bed with her while she is sleeping. Like what the fuck?' I'm like, '(inaudible).' So anyway, you know, if I do find a place and Kevin's like, 'keep looking, keep looking. Don't feel pressured by the real estate agents telling you that everyone rented for September and February and you're going through the leftovers, which are what I was told by like three real estate agents, broker or whatever.

But now, so I'm looking. But anyways, so I went yesterday and did the first little look. I went to a place that was like a 25-minute walk and I decided to walk even though I didn't consider the shoes I was wearing were flat sandals and my back hurt for the rest of the day. But it was nice out and I was really frustrated enough that it (unclear) just frustrated with this apartment hunting and decided to walk. It was a nice walk and calmed me down. The place was really weird. It was on a nice street, quiet, nice looking house like fine.

THERAPIST: Where?

CLIENT: In Arlington. Sorry.

THERAPIST: Where were you walking from?

CLIENT: From work.

THERAPIST: Gotcha.

CLIENT: You like walk in and it's like a living room. And like off the living room is the first bedroom which is tiny with like two huge closets and you can tell that, you can see the door frame that they filled in. So then by the door leaving 10 and extra. So then there was another like common space, dining room or (unclear) off whatever and then another common space like three in a row. And then the other room off of that which had two doors, one which led to the hallway to the bathroom and one from the other room which was really not that much bigger, much smaller closet and like your headboards were going to have to be against one another like with your roommate. Like, awful. So that was a no-no. Fine.

I come back to work, more frustrated, looking at more apartments. Making time to see what this guy claiming it was a great place and it was in Sunset Ridge and I don't know how far that actually is. May as well go. Jillian gave me a ride to do it. I was going to like schlep on this bus. Jillian gave me a ride and came to see it with me, which was great. And it was very strange. It was like two apartments in one building that we saw. Both of them, small kitchen. One of the bedrooms was medium size, the other one was small. Both of the apartments, the bedrooms were connected by a door, which opens and closes with no lock on it. I was like, who would want this? For $1850. And the other place with the weird common spaces was $1900, nothing included. Like what the fuck am I looking at?

But anyway it was kind of good because I realized that I don't want to be all the way over there in Sunset Ridge, like whatever, the square, or whatever. Too far. Fine. Today, I'm meeting an agent in by the square and looking at two apartments there for like $1800 or something like that that are probably going to be too small. But I'm going to see them anyway because I think it's good to see what I don't like and then I'm seeing another one which is like a 13-minute walk from work for $1800. It seems a little too good to be true, like maybe shit or really small because Mindy's like, 'well they really don't know the market on these prices. You have to go look at it.'

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But it's just a little too close to the square to be that inexpensive.

THERAPIST: Is the owner showing it, or a realtor?

CLIENT: No, a realtor is showing it.

THERAPIST: It's (unclear) priced.

CLIENT: Exactly. So we'll see.

THERAPIST: Where is it?

CLIENT: It's MIT and something.

THERAPIST: MIT and Carson?

CLIENT: (Unclear proper name) and Carson street were fine. No I'm wrong. I've been looking at so many freaking apartments that I don't know what I'm talking about. I did google the map. That's how I'm doing it, google mapping transit to work and then I could either take a real quick bus ride or literally walk 15 minutes, which is awesome. Even in the winter I might rather walk 15 minutes than stand in the cold and wait for the bus. Or I could bike or rollerblade or something. So cool. So we'll see. I'm going to do that 2:30 minutes in (unclear) Square. So tomorrow I'm seeing one on the Oceanview that was listed. That's the other thing. They list them a thousand times, they put different prices by like $5 so that you're like tricked to look at them. It's so annoying and there are so many agents that are listing the same thing. There's a lot of shit right now that is leftovers because people are rushing to get a July 1st rental or July 15th or August 1st.

THERAPIST: Can you do anything with MIT Housing?

CLIENT: No. MIT Housing is way over my price limit. But MIT does have a classified section which I try daily and I put an ad up on that for a roommate before I'd try Craig's List. So I'd look at that, but it's hard because it's a lot of expense stuff. No, like it's separate. So there's MIT Housing which I haven't even looked at or considered because it's I mean I don't have MIT Housing and first of all I don't know what the penalty would be if (unclear) at MIT Housing. Secondly -

THERAPIST: There's got to be a lot of people (inaudible).

CLIENT: Probably. But regardless, she had like -

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: She has like 600 sq. feet and I think she (unclear) 2500 or something absurd. I mean it's really expensive, this MIT Housing crap.

THERAPIST: I mean I've heard of people paying less but -

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: Yeah, but that was a few years ago.

CLIENT: I don't know. I mean I can check it out. I just haven't yet. God, it's a lot of shit. I'm not doing all so great. I mean I'm just not doing it. There's just crap, and students and bedbugs and I just can't do it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And so this place I'm seeing on Oceanview is listed as Dupont, is listed as -

THERAPIST: Did you do Arlington?

CLIENT: No. It's too far. Too far. Because like the whole point is to be either like a little bit closer to work but still like 20 minutes from my family, or closer to my family in Dupont or a little further from work.

THERAPIST: Right. (inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah, (unclear proper name) used to live there. Like (unclear).

THERAPIST: Oh really?

CLIENT: Oceanview Place looks okay. It's $1800, heat and water not included which is pretty good. It's listed as a two bedroom, but I was looking at the pictures and I think it's a (unclear) meaning you'd be sacrificing a proper living room to have the second bedroom so it looks like it has a foyer like a little min-foyer, then you walk in and it's like a foyer-space that looks like it would have to be the living room in order to make it a two bedroom. So there's lots of doors off of it and I don't know if it (unclear). But I'm going to see it anyway and the guy showing it actually went to high school and I recognized his name and I was like, 'do you have a brother named Joseph?' And apparently this guy was '98 in my brother's class and anyway (inaudible).

So I'm seeing that and I'm also seeing some other place in Dupont but I think he's showing it to a million people tomorrow and it probably will already be rented but I'm planning on calling other people today to like make an appointment for showing to me tomorrow. And I'm trying to see one, it's in Dupont, but close to Jackson Square Station which is very convenient. I mean it's like a little bit behind the projects so it's not as much in the area of Dupont I'd like to be in. But it's also high. I mean the apartment looks really, really nice. The only thing is, the second bedroom looks like maybe a closet so I have to maybe assess that but to the same extent I mean, I mean I am doing the work of finding the apartment, essentially, so anyone who moves in is just take it or leave it. I mean, (unclear) narrow my options. But like there's this whole there's so many different parts to this. You know and I'm also deciding on an apartment for somebody I haven't met and I don't just want ships passing in the night like with Mindy, like whoa. And then on Sunday I'm taking the day off from any of this and going to the beach. Oh wait, now so I don't know about money and I don't know about anything and I'm going to have to go to (unclear) for this but since I'm not moving to Florida it's like 'eh.' Oh well. I'm just going to continue and it's really strenuous but I'm moving September 1st. I have to give them 60 days actually, like soon. And I told my roommate and she was like, 'oh, miss you and the cats.' And I was like, 'I know, but (inaudible). And I told her I was going to live by myself because I thought that I would just sound like an asshole if I'm not because then I wouldn't have to explain myself. And I don't want to make it about her. It's just how she is. She's a mess. I mean I do think moving forward, she shouldn't tell -

THERAPIST: (Unclear) Franklin.

CLIENT: Well, I told her that. I said, 'I don't want to live here' and whatever. But for future reference for her, she shouldn't tell people potentially moving into the apartment that she might have a few piles that are in her room. First of all, her room is a pile. And her mess goes all the way out to the hallway because she doesn't clean it.

Anyway, Stephanie calls me in an emergency this morning. Her boyfriend's engaged. Engaged. She broke up two weeks after I broke up with Franklin and of course, the first thing I said was that we don't know if he was cheating on you with her and maybe they had some relationship. Like all over Facebook she's posting pictures of this huge ring, proposed in the Caribbean. Like what the fuck? It may be really, it's thrown us both a little off course I mean she's trying not to focus on it but we're both really upset about it. Like I'm upset for her sake but I don't understand people and like what's the rush and like just makes me feel like, 'oh my God, like I really should be single because if people really are that desperate out there that they get engaged in six months, like what the fuck is going on in the world? Or I mean, who knows how long they were actually together?

But like, Stephanie knows when they became Facebook friends, which was only like nine months ago. So it couldn't have been that long. And I just, okay, everyone is entitled to do whatever they want, to get engaged whenever they want but I don't get it. I just don't get the rush. Like, and yes I want a relationship, and yes, I want to get married and I want to do all this stuff that I want to do before I like run out of eggs or whatever. But that doesn't mean that the person I'm with for six months I'm just going to get engaged to, like if you are so in love that you just want to be together forever even though you've just met recently, okay, be together. If you're going to be in love forever what's the rush.

Like why engaged? Why marry? Like, what the fuck is going on? And I felt this a little bit with Franklin, like what are you doing? Like, why another relationship? Like the way it's like well, Stephanie's like, 'I feel a little bad for them both.' There (unclear) engaged already, like who does that, you know?' But it was also really upsetting for both of us, like we're upset about it. Her more so than me because it's her ex, but like just based on principle, (inaudible), like it's rattling to find that out, I think.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you're pretty jealous.

CLIENT: Not like knowing someone six months and you're already engaged already, honestly. I mean like maybe instead of finding someone, okay, fine.

THERAPIST: (Unclear) would be excited about you getting engaged after only six months.

CLIENT: Yeah, but that would never happen to me. You could sit there with that face but I would never do that.

THERAPIST: (Laughs) What face it that?

CLIENT: I don't know. You have a face like, 'well, you never know,' or, 'who are you to say,' or like, play the Devil's Advocate over there.

THERAPIST: Or, maybe you're envious of people who (inaudible).

CLIENT: A little maybe, but it happened with me and Franklin. I was so in love. Move into my apartment and let's plan a future and get a cat.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: Know what I mean? So maybe that was a part of it. I thought that that was a good thing, or maybe it's like, yeah I'm jealous because maybe it isn't a mistake for these ones. But I rushed into it and for me it fucked everything up and I fucked up but then they rush into it and like, no, everything works out and married. Like fuck you.

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

CLIENT: Or like Franklin with the new girlfriend, like, oh, look at you. Like fucking great.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but there's something about like what a carefree good time all these people are having.

CLIENT: Yeah, why aren't they not miserable? Like we're miserable (unclear) pretty much and that's the whole thing. Like why are you not like fucking miserable? Like I hate you. That's like the whole thing. You should be fucking unhappy. Like you should still be sad or getting over this break up. But no, they're just fucking moving on. And me and Stephanie like are smoking pot and drinking and smoking cigarettes and like working all the time. Like what? Huh? And not going on vacation. I don't get it. It's so fucking I mean it does make me feel a little bit like yikes, I can't believe somebody after a break up that soon would be ready to be in a serious relationship. At least I know I'm not ready for a serious relationship kind of thing, at least I've not rushed into something. I can't speak for Stephanie because of this Roman situation but you know. Meanwhile, I like snapped at Sergio every time he tried to touch me or anything this week because I've just been on a roller coaster looking for an apartment and like he's like trying to like still (unclear) me, and I'm not (unclear) right now, so like stop. Stop talking to me and then finally he's made himself scarce. And I'm like, leave me alone. Because he was trying to make a point about like how he cares about me and just because I'm going through a hard time like don't leave like (unclear) in my way and this is like why we're not in a relationship, for this reason. Like I don't owe you anything right now. Like I owe my parents and my best friend but I don't leave them as if I'm in the wake of my madness right now, but if you don't want to be left in the wake of whatever's going on then stop talking to me, like I don't know what to tell you.

(Pause): [00:20:06 [00:20:14]

CLIENT: It seems just bizarre, like it's just the whole situation with Roger and Delilah (sp?) It seems just bizarre. Like who does that is what I feel. It's what we feel. Who does that?

(Pause): [00:20:27 00:20:35]

CLIENT: And I already told her, let's not bring this up in front of Lucas because Lord knows, he'll probably get defensive because of his weird Chinese marriage that he hasn't seen in a year. The woman's roommate. You know this. Yes. We've talked about this. Lucas's married and his wife is in China. You're kidding.

THERAPIST: I don't think so.

CLIENT: Oh my God. Because he's taught in China. English, for I don't know how long.

THERAPIST: (inaudible), but I don't remember.

CLIENT: That's fine. Maybe I didn't. I don't know. And then he like got this girlfriend and like came back to home. Because he wanted to come home. I guess kept the girlfriend. Then she like came for a summer for a few months and he must have proposed or something. Then she went back to China and in the fall he went there and got married to her and to the point that he like didn't tell his dad. Like they set this date for the wedding so that she could get married in China where her family could be to the point that he didn't get his dad who's literally like this man is like his mentor, his savior. Like he looks up to his father in more ways than I've ever seen anyone ever look up to anyone. And his father raised him because his mother had a drug and alcohol problem and she was off and whatever. To the point where he didn't give his father enough notice and his father had to like said, 'Lucas, I can't go. It's not possible for me to go to China in that soon of a time frame. You can't do this. You can't not you can't get married, but you can't make decisions like this that involve your entire and only his mother and his sister were at the wedding. No friends. Like bizarre, right? But I think the whole thing is bizarre. Now she's not even here yet. So they got married. He comes back.

This was September or November. And they haven't they've been trying to like get her here. And now Stephanie's getting involved in it by taking it pro bono to help them. Of course they need a fucking lawyer. He didn't even have a letter. It's bizarre. They Skype every day. She like barely speaks English. But anyway, I told Stephanie, I was like, 'better not bring this up in front of Lucas because he's like he'll get defensive and like well, people just fall in love and just want to settle down and get married.' You know? But I think his marriage is nuts. But I'm wondering what's going to happen when she gets here. And it just seems so backwards. Why would you go to China to get married if you need a green card to be here? Like get married here.

The whole thing is bizarre and Lucas rushed into it and I think it has to do with his childhood divorce and his mother wasn't around and you know we've talked a lot about our families and like whatever. I feel like there is like he has a (unclear) issue with women because of his mother. And I feel like there's something weird going on there, I mean because it just she's going to get here and has nobody, nothing, hardly any English. No job. Like a little bit of money. Like it's so weird, you know? Anyway, but the point was I was telling Stephanie because he would get defensive, I'm sure, because even if it's like longer than six months I feel like that was a bit of a rush to get married to this girl. I mean they were dating for however long they were dating in China. And then they were apart for a year. Then she was here for three months and then they get married and now they've been apart for a year. Weird. (Unclear) really dumb. Apparently, it's rush hour.

Anyway, I don't get it. I don't get it. And like I don't know, like to be honest I could easily gotten all caught up in all that and gotten married to Franklin and just decided to do it. Like at any point in our relationship I was ready. Like, we could have eloped. You know, like whatever. Like if I were that desperate or whatever, I would have stayed with him and not kicked him out. But I'm not.

(Pause): [00:24:54 00:25:15]

CLIENT: I mean, should this not be bothering me this much?

(Pause): [00:25:15 00:28:01]

THERAPIST: It does seem like you're in a whirlwind this week, huh?

CLIENT: (inaudible).

THERAPIST: And I know it can be stressful looking at apartments and especially in a very tough market. But that's sort of not the whole story. I think a lot of this might be to your having decided not to move to Houston.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: In that the move I think was a lot of things, among them, 'fuck you all, I don't need any of you people.' And you kind of changed course on that, in particular, I think -

CLIENT: Yeah, like (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Yeah, pretty much. And this week you're so busy you don't have any time for us assholes or whatever.

(Phone rings) (Pause): [00:29:51 00:30:10]

THERAPIST: Are you waiting for someone to (unclear) on your phone?

CLIENT: No. I realized it was going off and I was right so I could keep it here and turn it off.

THERAPIST: Can you just like turn the ringer off and put it back? I'm not upset but it just seems to (unclear) what I'm talking about. (Laughs)

CLIENT: (Laughs) (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Which is pretty interesting like you know, you're super confident.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: You either (laughs) (inaudible).

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm saying it seems like things (unclear) in what I'm saying, that you're cocooning yourself in the stress around the apartment search in part and telling everybody what fucking (unclear) after having decided that actually you're going to stay here. And I guess another thing is your it seems like there's kind of this like shame that goes along with needing people and needing things and maybe that's what is getting you so worked up about Stephanie's ex-boyfriend getting engaged is, sort of like may not envy people who sort of can do that or can do that get engaged in six months, but also like terror that people could be so swept away and their judgment could go so out to lunch that they could make a commitment like that -

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Feel that they need the person so much that everything else goes out the window caution, circumspection, magnetism, and every other thing and yeah like therefore you acknowledging that there are people in your life that matter enough that you don't want to move, is stressing you out and the idea of marrying somebody after six months I could imagine totally flipped you out.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It did. Yeah. And I think the other piece is sort of the shame and criticism piece, like and you feel terribly critical of them for that. Like what idiots.

CLIENT: Really. I do feel like that. I feel like, 'what an idiot, Franklin. What an idiot, Franklin's girlfriend.' What an idiot (sp?) and his girlfriend; what an idiot, Lucas like what are you doing? All of you. Like, you're so stupid.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That's how I feel.

THERAPIST: Right. And I think that's partly because you feel it's stupid needing people.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: No, But I think I just came out of three years of like hanging onto somebody because I was scared of not having somebody that I felt I needed, but I feel like everybody else who's rushing into the whole having somebody to want and need like really should take a (unclear).

THERAPIST: (Laughs).

CLIENT: Like you don't know if you're going to get divorced. None of you. Like you could be gung ho about this engagement or you could be gung ho about your new girlfriend or hung ho about your new wife you haven't seen in your first year of marriage, which is like the hardest one statistically. But you have no idea whether it's going to work out. Like you can't sit there and say, 'I'm so in love, I'll never get divorced.'

THERAPIST: It's (unclear) than that. The problems (unclear) I think are a lot of the problem is that you actually started quite early. You probably didn't want to see them or (unclear) serious things.

CLIENT: Yeah but does everybody get a new relationship? Is that not a problem? Come on.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but not -

CLIENT: Okay, not the same time.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Yeah, there was some kind of weird neuroses going on for me but it's just like you don't even live with this person. How can you get engaged? Like you're on your first vacation together and you propose to her?

THERAPIST: How the hell do you know?

CLIENT: Because it's like not normal.

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: That's really how I feel about it. Like that's not normal behavior. And must be how people live in the Midwest or something.

THERAPIST: That's you.

CLIENT: That's me and Stephanie.

THERAPIST: How does this (cross talk) (Laughing)?

CLIENT: Because they don't have anything to do out there. Because they don't have anything to do out there and they just get married and have kids. And buy big houses that are really cheap because they're in the middle of nowhere. It's different. We live on nerves here in the Northeast.

THERAPIST: (Laughs) All right. As long as we're clear. (Laughs)

CLIENT: So if you live in this (unclear) you should understand how to act and not marry someone so quickly, or get engaged or fucking (unclear).

THERAPIST: You sound almost a little bit as though you're putting yourself in judgment about those people. Like everybody else here doesn't know what the fuck they're doing as well as all those people who live somewhere else.

CLIENT: Right. I am.

(Pause): [00:36:08 00:36:18]

CLIENT: It takes longer to get to know somebody than six months. How do you know you want to marry somebody in six months? What are you doing? How does he know, or even like or even (unclear)? What if you can't stand somebody you somebody you never even knew existed unless you lived with the person for six months first? I mean, suppose they're engaged, not married, so if they're fine there's always room for a break up. So why get engaged? Why not just wait until you like know and then get engaged and then get married, like boom, like done. I really, it's not, I don't think it's normal. Or I don't think it's appropriate and I don't think that it's a good look. It makes you look flaky. And frivolous, like he just broke up with Stephanie on Facebook. Like I was in a relationship six months ago and now six months later back in a relationship and engaged. Immediately. Like something's wrong. How could it not be? You're sitting here with a face like, 'you don't know that.'

THERAPIST: I am because you don't.

CLIENT: But I don't know that, but how could there come on, something's wrong mentally with this man.

THERAPIST: Maybe. Sometimes stuff like that works for some people.

CLIENT: Well I know for a fact Franklin has something wrong mentally. I can at least be sure about that for his sake.

THERAPIST: But like, that's a (unclear) of one and that one happens to be your ex-boyfriend so that's nuts. And then they'll say that was the most generalizable -

CLIENT: It just all seems ridiculous. I think everything's ridiculous in this whole situation. Everything's ridiculous.

(Pause): [00:38:09 00:38:16]

THERAPIST: Well I guess that's the other thing about this that's ridiculous to me is that -

(Pause): [00:38:21 00:38:30]

THERAPIST: I mean in a sense, what the fuck do you care? Like first of all there's your 100% certainty that not only is it not going to work but that there must be something wrong with probably both of them to even have contemplated this. And, too, is like apparently you really care. I understand that you feel bad for Stephanie and you probably feel like a solidarity with her and (unclear). I don't what you think about him.

CLIENT: He's an asshole.

THERAPIST: Okay. So that makes it even more (unclear) that it matters to you so much that he's doing something stupid. Like in other words if he said he wanted to go ski diving or do some dangerous stupid thing like he says no it's not like he's doing something wrong, but it's like a personal affront to you. And that would suggest to me that there's something it's not just about what he happens to be doing that's at issue here. In other words, this may also do with you.

(Pause): [00:39:39 00:39:57]

THERAPIST: That it terrifies you that he could sort of let himself go that way or need somebody that much. And probably actually I think that you may be sort of like jealous, even if you're not the kind of person who would ever do that, even under whatever circumstances. Like I'm not saying it means you actually in reality need to be that way to be hateful or mean. You can be jealous or wish you were in some ways more like somebody, you really don't actually want to be more like somebody like that.

CLIENT: Um hmm [yes].

(Pause): [00:40:37 00:40:45]

THERAPIST: I imagine it could scare the shit out of you that people could make a decision like that.

CLIENT: I mean it's just all so -

THERAPIST: (Unclear) it does make me wonder how long your parents were engaged.

CLIENT: How long my parents were engaged?

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Unclear).

CLIENT: My parents? Dad and Mom?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't even know that they were engaged. I think they were like lived in the same building and were all friends with the same people and like ended up in a relationship and then like decided to get married quickly. I don't know. Probably, they were old.

(Pause): [00:41:15 00:41:26]

CLIENT: Whether or not they were old, I do think, yeah, they did rush into it because I think that probably my mom knew he sucked from the beginning. Like literally, she's like sometimes I think my divorce was a mistake because I should have tried to make it work for you guys. But then like as quickly as that thought comes in it goes right out and that was the best decision I ever made to divorce that man. But I do think that you're right though. My parents probably did rush into it even if time-wise it was like longer. I don't what. Or maybe they didn't. I don't know. I mean but why does that indicate that all marriages that are rushed into are going to end badly? I don't know. It doesn't.

THERAPIST: No, it doesn't. But what it does mean is that -

CLIENT: I mean my mother -

THERAPIST: It could have huge consequences for you in your life.

CLIENT: I mean once my mom actually told me basically, like he was like stable and in the same profession as me and in the same group of friends and seemed like he would be a good father and I was like, so basically you settled. Which was really pretty much what she was telling me. (Unintelligible). It was depressing. It was like a New York Times style, I mean a New Yorker style comic like, you know like each on a phone or something like passing a note like let's get married or like something really not romantic at all and I was like gee, no wonder you got a divorce and she was like, no, it's funny, look it. People loved it. I was like, yeah I bet. Like that' not a wedding invitation. Who are you? Even that, you know? And then they got married in their living room or somebody's living room while my grandmother cried in the corner because my father was marrying out. Literally, crying, (unclear) so Jewish and dramatic. But anyway, so yeah.

THERAPIST: But that's a (unclear) insult to you.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I mean as much as I never want to get a divorce, I'm also not like of the mind that if I got married like I'm not getting a divorce, it's just not realistic. I mean like I'm a little pessimistic about it more than I will be in a few years when I'm able to be with somebody or whatever the case is, but right now, no. Anybody can get a divorce at any time for any reason. A 99-year old man divorced his 96-year old wife for an affair that he found out that she had had 70 years before, divorced her. (Unclear). I mean I hope I don't feel like I'm married and may want to get a divorce, when I'm like at the altar, but right now that is how I feel about it, like don't be so like na�ve, I guess. I don't know, But I do think that to a certain extent that when you're young and if you actually do something that maybe it will like have a better chance of divorcing, or maybe not.

THERAPIST: I don't think that's the issue because a lot of people do stupid things or they think that would be judged to be stupid things, who do not (unclear) about.

CLIENT: Right. Case in point when I found out about the (unclear) and I was like what the hell?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But it did make me angry.

THERAPIST: But you don't have to have the same degree of -

CLIENT: No. Do whatever you want. I don't care.

THERAPIST: Exactly.

CLIENT: Okay, I'm great (unclear). Whatever you want, but like, I did have the mind of like I do not understand it at all.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But it didn't make me feel like, 'what the fuck are you thinking?' Why did you do that? Who does that? It did make me feel that like this makes me feel.

THERAPIST: You're outraged.

CLIENT: Totally. It is an outrage. If feels like an outrage. This is an outrage!

THERAPIST: Right. But I'm not entirely clear why. I mean it's a tough adjustment but -

(Pause): [00:46:18 00:46:29]

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: I wonder also if it's making you anxious to come here more than once a week.

CLIENT: Why? Why do you think it would make me anxious?

THERAPIST: Because it's a little like (unclear) on someone.

CLIENT: Yeah. No I think it's good though.

(Pause): [00:46:46 00:46:57]

CLIENT: I mean I have like less things that I've got to do than coming here twice a week than I do about e-mailing myself 50 times a day about this (unintelligible). (Pause) In terms of like level of neediness or feeling like I need. I mean, she assured me that I'm not. It's fine. I'm going on (unclear) time depending on people that love me is what you do and then I can return to being a grown up because I was like, 'I feel like I'm not a grown up.' And she was like, 'you can return to being a grown up once you feel a little better. Don't worry about it.' Which was the right thing to say.

THERAPIST: Good. All right, well we should stop for now.

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: Let's see. About next week. Let's have a quick look here. (inaudible).

CLIENT: Right.

END TRANSCRIPT