TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Well, not much has changed since yesterday when I saw you. I did not talk to my father. He texted me at like 9:30.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: He didn't even call me first, he just texted me and said, "I'm home now, call me on the 3008 number." I was like, "Um…" And I had just eaten and was tired and watching TV on the couch and didn't feel like I could have that conversation. But I was also kind of kind of annoyed that he literally waited until everything else in his day was done at 9:30 at night to have a conversation about finances and money. And I just found that to be a little bit off-putting in terms of my attitude towards the whole thing. And then now he's not answering this morning his phone. And it's like, okay. And, I mean—whatever, I don't know what his— My mom said she talked to him last night but they like only talked about Michael. And how they're so worried that he's gonna not be able to do it and what's going to happen, that the three of us need to make an agreement, me, Michael and [her? 1:28] and me, my dad and my mom, that like if he fucks this up or like can't figure it out or whatever that he is on his own. I just feel like—I'm nervous because honestly I don't really feel confident that he can like be an adult. And I don't really understand. But it's also frustrating because I don't understand how someone could have gotten to be 30 years old and can't figure shit out, like can't manage on their own. And so I'm nervous because I'm afraid I'm gonna be frustrated. I don't know.

THERAPIST: What do you mean? [2:15]

CLIENT: Well, I just don't know if he's going to be able to not spend every cent on eating out and drinking and weed and cigarettes. And the fact that my mom is going to be separating his rent and bill money obviously makes me feel fine about that.

THERAPIST: Right, you're kinda covered.

CLIENT: Right, yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But like how long is that going to go on in Michael's life, and how's he ever going to learn? Like she said she got in a fight with him about how much he was eating out outside of the house. And I was like, "Well, is he using money that he shouldn't be using right now that you're putting towards whatever you're putting and you're taking from him?" She's like, "No, I control how much money he gets." I'm like, "So if he wants to spend it on that then he's not going to have any money for pot, he's gonna learn that." And maybe he's not learning it right now. And I feel like maybe she's more frustrated because it's not a situation where this is your stipend for the month, plan accordingly. And maybe it's like, [whining] "Well, I need some more money and I spent it on this and I don't have [unclear]." She's like, "Oh, oh, fine," you know, and then takes money out of his account for him. So that may be the situation why she's so frustrated and on his case about it. And I'm like, "Well, living with me, as long as the bills are paid he can do whatever he wants with his money. And if he doesn't like what's in the house for food he can go and order out. And if he does that and can't afford cigarettes then he can't afford cigarettes, and we'll have to figure it out along the way."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know. And I did tell him like, "I will be happy to help you if you want to try to put a budget together, you know, but I can't help you with your cash flow." I don't even have cash flow. I have a cash flow problem and I told him that, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [4:00]

CLIENT: And I mean then I started to get worried, okay, if I'm going to be—and I don't mind doing the grocery shopping, I'd actually rather just do it myself. I mean, he can tell me a couple items that he might want. But I mean like I buy things like lots of pasta, lots of cans, lots of frozen. Like Kraft macaroni and cheese, or Annie's or whatever. I mean, it'll be probably Kraft—well, store brand, because I'm going to really not buy brand name and whatever. Which is okay, I've done it before and that's fine with me. But unlike living at my mom's house where there is more variety, and if he doesn't like the stuff that's in the house then I don't know what to tell him. I mean, part of me is also like he's going to take advantage of it and then I'm going to have nothing to eat. Because I'm not sure that we'll always be together cooking meals, and I think it'll be nice if we can maybe do that sometimes. And he's a great cook, so that'll be nice for me, and I think he likes it sometimes.

But the stuff that's going to be in the house is like instant oatmeal, and one or two boxes of cereal, and maybe Cheese Its or [unclear 5:19] popcorn. Stuff that's cheap enough to keep around for a while and not worry about it going bad, that's like my M.O. Because I end up myself ordering takeout, or being out of the house, or not eating that night, or going to Stephanie's, or whatever. And so I don't like the idea of having stuff in the house that's gonna go bad. Anyway, this is all because I'm anxious that he's gonna, I don't know, not be able to function as like a grownup or something, or not have enough money, or freak out because he's not smoking weed, or [unclear 5:55] or whatever. I don't know. [6:00]

And I guess I just feel—well, so like I feel ashamed that I don't have to look at myself for all of my money, well isn't that issues and whatever. But I feel ashamed of him too. Like slash for him. I know he feels plenty ashamed for the way that his life has turned out thus far. But as my brother I feel like a little bit like I want him to be able to do well and I'm rooting for him, because I don't want to feel like I have this older brother that I live with and he's this schlump and whatever. And I hope that's not the case.

THERAPIST: Like you'd be a schlump and you'd feel bad for him, but it would also [be] kind of a like shameful thing for you to have a brother like that.

CLIENT: Right. And then he was like, "Do you think in the living room I could have an art corner? Like a desk to do art?" And I was like, "No." Like, "It's the living room, you can put that in your room." But I was like, "Let's just look at—we'll figure it out, we'll go have a visit to the apartment together and we can talk about it."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I mean, it's not a big living room, I'm not allowing that, sorry. Like it's just not happening. There's not enough wall—it's just not happening. Like it's the living room. And then maybe in the kitchen, but even that. I kind of just want to say no, and like, "You have space in this house, but you can't like turn it into like whatever hippy house you think that this is gonna be and not—like I have grown up stuff, like furniture and stuff." And this is why I don't want roommates, because I don't want their shit everywhere. But also I understand that he feels like he's breaking out of this trap of his little room at my mom's or whatever. But I don't know if he's taking into account that people still keep their own stuff in their room in a living situation. Like I'm not gonna have fucking a make-up station—I don't know what— Like granted my space is bigger. First of all I need more space because I have more stuff and I'm a girl, and just automatically girls need more space when getting ready and whatever, and use more space in getting ready. And I'm just—

THERAPIST: Well, it sounds like maybe you're also like preemptively feeling ashamed about how all this is going.

CLIENT: Yeah. [9:00]

THERAPIST: In that it's not just like, no, there's just not enough space in the living room and he's going to have to figure out somewhere else to put his art whatever. It's kinda like, can you believe that? I mean, you think you're going to put that in the living room?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like what the fuck? I mean, is this some hippy commune we're living at. I mean, in other words, like it's already insulting, you know, you're already half living in a hippy commune in your mind because you anticipate what it's going to be like.

CLIENT: Right. Because he's like, "Well, I want to hang up my posters and stuff."

THERAPIST: Well, it may be partly because of how he's being, but I think it's also you, because this happens all over the place, where you feel so ashamed and so insulted. And there's some reason that you're doing that, which we've talked a little bit about, although I'm not entirely clear about it. In other words, you're actually going to be, "Oh my god, the guy hasn't lived in his own place in so long he doesn't even know that he can't put an art desk in the living room." Like, "Do you believe that guy?" You know. Or, "Boy, somebody's going to need to tell—I'm going to need to show him how [unclear 10:19]." But it's not like that, there's no feeling of like this is just his problem, or I'll just have to set him straight about it. It's kind of like you've already been dragged into a situation that you're ashamed to be in and it feels like it's insulting to you. A little bit like with the [clubs?] that we were talking about a few weeks ago, or with your dad calling you back late last night. I mean, you should act like, who knows? Maybe he waited till the end of the day because he wouldn't have his mind on other things. I mean, you know him and I don't, so I'm making stuff up. But I guess I have to imagine there must be some other reason than you are his last priority and he doesn't really care. [11:10]

CLIENT: No, I really think it's because he just procrastinated on it all day.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Yeah. I think it's like the last thing that he wants to do is have a conversation about this with me and actually deal with it.

THERAPIST: And why is he so loathe to deal with it?

CLIENT: Why is he what?

THERAPIST: So loathe to deal with it?

CLIENT: Because he's an asshole. I know that's a really good reason. I think it's because—

THERAPIST: Well, I believe he's an asshole if you say he's an asshole, but—

CLIENT: Because it's awkward and because he doesn't know how to communicate with women I think.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Which is probably why his longest relationship is with that woman.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. [12:00]

CLIENT: And he also has to deal with my uncle with this situation because of the grandma money and me wanting it after he offered it to me.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: If he hadn't offered it to me I wouldn't know it existed and wouldn't be saying, "Well, if it's okay to have it now then it would really help me now in my life, and now I want it."

THERAPIST: Right, but—okay, I'm sticking with my point though. Because at least kind of to me the way you initially put it, although I may have this part wrong, as though you felt like, yeah, you're kind of insulted and you felt like his last priority, and I guess in a way as though he's embarrassed for you in the way you're embarrassed for Michael.

CLIENT: Okay, yeah.

THERAPIST: And now you're saying that he put off calling you because (a) he's an asshole so he's not going to really try to be helpful, and (b) because he doesn't really want to deal with it. And he doesn't know how to communicate anyways, especially with women, and this makes him feel incompetent or whatever. I mean, there's so many different things. I guess my point is again I think your initial impulse is to somehow feel quite insulted by him and sort of anticipate that yeah, he did it sort of so often arranged in a way that you want to feel ashamed. And you're angry at him and critical of him too, I mean, that's evident. But I guess the initial thing, as with the housing situation, is like— I guess what I'm saying is it's just going to be like it's inherent when you're [out of? 14:09] the situation that you need to be feeling ashamed, or somebody is insulting you, you know, like your brother with the desk or when your dad didn't call you back earlier. But you kind of make it about that for some reason. I'm not sure why, but it's conspicuous. And I guess I also bring it up because it sucks and it seems like it makes you feel horrible. [14:40]

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't like the idea that my father—I mean, you know, if he had called me at 5:00 then I could have gone and gotten the check—you know. And then he calls me at 9:00. And then now it's Friday and I like to get—or give in the deposit at 10:00 am tomorrow. And I'm not able to reach him still and god knows if I'll be able to reach him later. And I just—I'm insulted, yeah. And like above Michael and the apartment I just—no, I don't want some random desk where you're gonna sit and do art in the living room, for some reason, I just don't. And I feel like a bitch if I'm doing that because he's just coming from not living on his own. I don't know. I'm just nervous about the whole situation and living with him, and anxious to figure out the like paint, and like go there and visit and take some measurements so I can start just preparing my move and figuring out which furniture I can take and what I can't. So I'm on edge. And then Michael— I think also another thing that got me about that is that he [left?] a very childish question. Like, "Oh, can I put an art desk in there?" Like, "What are you—"

THERAPIST: Can I do my like work in the kitchen?

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. Like, "Do you want to put a toy chest next to it, Mike?" You know. "Can I get my posters? I want to hang up my posters." Like, what? Like, I have art. We'll figure out all the art and I'll figure out where it should hang. And I hate to be that, but like I want to be that because I don't want to live in a space that I'm uncomfortable with. And I also think it's reminiscent of dealing with Franklin and how he had these fucking ridiculous design ideas that I felt really resentful of like having to abide by and live with. And I felt like finding an apartment first and then finding a roommate. The apartment would be there and they would just look at the room and say, "Oh, nice apartment." Like with Mindy, and not really bothering with changing with anything, and ask if anything could be open, and hang up this fucking retarded thing?

And I guess I was thinking that Michael would just be so happy to be getting out of mom's he just will not—like he'll just be happy to have an apartment set up already and whatever that I'm happy to decorate and do all that shit. I mean, I know my mother will be on his side about the décor stuff because she's really into interior design and really, really good with it, like good with colors and space and figuring stuff out. But with Mike it felt like a little bit like, "Well, can I put that in the living room?" Obviously it's not decent living room furniture. I mean, I'm not going to be sitting out there—I don't even know. It's a bad example because I don't like—I'm not going to put my like—I don't know, I can't even think of an example, because everything that I would put anywhere would go in my room. And he doesn't have that much space as me, but he's certainly going to have more space than he has now. I mean, there's room in that place for a desk, in that room. Why the fuck can't he just put the desk in there? And if he wants to come take his art to the living and color in the living room or whatever he does he can do that, and then put it away. Why does it have to be in the living room, why can't it be in his space? And I felt like I was then like bursting his bubble. [18:40]

I don't know, I'm anxious about the whole thing. I don't have any money. I figured my goals out along this month because it's the first month of the car payment, and I like fucked it all up because I didn't pay attention because I forgot and whatever. So I'm just on edge. And then Stephanie's fucking always tries to be the one coming up with the ideas when I'm being depressed and not able to accept ideas. And she's like, "I don't know why you're concentrating on looking for help from people from outside sources, why don't you look within yourself to help the situation?" And I was like, "I am." — No, and she writes that why I don't be looking for a second job, being a Spanish tutor, or more babysitting, or waitressing or bartending. And I'm like, "First of all I am thinking of things to help myself. Like I can lower my spending on lots of stuff that I don't need to be spending as much money on." And then her response to that was, "See, you're still focusing on the not. I cannot get manicures, I cannot go out to eat as much." And I'm like, "What?" Yeah, because if I'm focusing on stuff that I can do myself to help this money situation it's spending less. Like what are you talking about which is not stuff, it's stuff—like not, like yeah. But she made it seem like, "Oh, you're still being so negative about it." I'm like, "No, I'm telling you what would be reasonable." [20:15]

And then in terms of the job thing, "Fuck you, you want to go and work every day and then go bartender and waitress every weekend?" She's like, "You're in town, it would be so fun, you'd meet so many people." I'm like, "Oh yeah, I've never had any experience waitressing. I work weekends and nights sporadically as needed for my job because I run events, and baby sit sometimes already, and I'm going to go fucking find a job bartending? What are you fucking crazy? What do I look, 21?" And I felt really angry because it's like, "Fuck you, Stephanie, you can say that because you don't need to think about this stuff, you don't need to think about how you're not going to be cash [torn? 20:54], how you're going to have money to fucking go out to eat with your friends on the last minute when you get invited and don't have to go home and look at your fucking spreadsheet. Like that's not your problem so that's easy for you to say." Just like it's easy for her to say, "I don't understand why you don't like dating, it's so fun, you get to meet whoever you want." Yeah, because you don't have to fucking do it right now, you're not doing it, you're not faced with that issue. So it's easy for you tell me, just get another job, what's the big deal?

It sounds miserable. No I'm not going to be a waitress, and I could never even get work as a waitress. Like, what are you, nuts? How many people out there are looking for part-time work that have years of part-time waitressing and bartending under their belt? I have zero. And I mean, yes, I can pursue more babysitting jobs and use the websites that I have a profile on, like Sitter City and Care.com, and I went online yesterday and sent e-mails to a bunch of people looking for occasional sitters or whatever. So okay, yeah, I can do that. But it doesn't guarantee any kind of income, and it doesn't really alleviate issues surrounding how to budget myself so that I'm able to afford living in this new apartment with this car with the salary I'm at, and with the debt. [sighs] [pause] And then she got all mad at me for getting mad at her because she's just trying to help. [22:20]

This also goes back to me being really upset at my father because he has—it's not like he'd have to take out a loan to help me. Like he has that money and he's not willing to help me. And I don't care if it's my wedding money, I don't care what it is, I'd rather have it. And I understand Stephanie's like, "Why don't you stop looking for outside sources and just work more?" Because I'm having to do other stuff. I'm trying to do networking stuff, I'm trying to do volunteer, I'm trying to get more friends, I'm trying to find a new job. No I don't want to spend all my time fucking working to make money to pay— And I understand that that's what people do, but if it's an option for my father to help me out I don't understand why he wouldn't, I just don't get it. I'm just miserable like over money and how to figure out a budget that works. Because it doesn't seem like I can. It seems like I have to completely give up some things. Or I don't know where to not spend so that I can spend on other things that I want, like doing salsa lessons again or something. [24:00]

And literally my uncle was like, "You have debt? Oh, well, you should never be going out to eat and never be spending money on anything besides what you absolutely have to. If your friends want to go out drinking that's fine, you order ice water." That was his solution, to literally like not go out to eat at all, or if I do just drink water. So I'm like sitting at a table at dinner with Stephanie, like, "No thanks, I'll just nibble the bread and assist with the tip." Like what? Or just not go out. Like what else do I cut out? Therapy, birth control, fucking shampoo, I don't know. [very long pause, 90 seconds] I mean like yes, if I spend no money on meals out or whatever then I can afford the activities and other stuff that I want to be doing, okay fine. And I can go to a salsa lesson twice a week or something, or whatever. [27:00]

THERAPIST: Well, clearly you're bothered. To me it feels like not having enough confidence or something.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I'm negative every single month in my bank account, like when I get it. And it's hard, because when I'm with my friends and we're just out, or we want to go out to eat or something, like it's hard to be the one that's like, "Oh, I don't want to—I can't split the bill, I'm just going to pay for my salad or whatever." Or like, "Oh, I can only afford one drink." It's hard to be that person. [crying slightly] And I don't want to have to be that person. And then [I have enough of? 28:11] these situations because I'm not, and then I go out and I have fun. And if Stephanie buys me a meal one night I feel like the next week I want to buy her one. [long pause]

I mean, I know it's kind of the same for my brother, but I also know that if he would spend less money on cigarettes and weed then he would have more money to go out with his friends. But he goes out with his friends anyway, so I don't know if that's like a huge thing. But also he makes less than me. I don't know. I know that we both struggle with that. But the other thing is they don't do as nice things as like me and my friends do. Like they're going to crappy bars where it's like three dollar drafts so it's not as big of a thing. And they're not going to nicer restaurants. But there are times with Stephanie or with some of my other friends that I do get invited to nicer restaurants or whatever. I guess—honestly, like I've always been like the broke friend, or the kid with less money [unclear 29:48] between all of my friends. And it's hard, and I'm tired of it a little, and I don't really know how to break free of it. [30:00]

THERAPIST: And having growing up because your dad had the money but wasn't helping?

CLIENT: I don't know. No, he like paid child support, it's just that we never had as much money as anybody—as a lot of the people.

THERAPIST: Okay. I think that's what I'm hearing but.

CLIENT: And because the parents divorced and stuff.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [unclear 30:30]

CLIENT: Right. [long pause] I think I'm just nervous about living with Michael, I'm nervous about us both being broke, I'm nervous about being broke and not being able to go out.

THERAPIST: You know, it… [pause] I know there's things I haven't figured out yet what I think this is about. It's not because I don't take your points about the stress of being completely strapped in terms of money and having to give up things that really feel essential, like a date with friends, and there's salsa classes, and even to go away I guess now and again. Like things that you feel like you need to be mentally happy anyway. They don't feel like luxurious things or excessive things, but things you need to do to have fun and be able to feel good about that. And also that you're worried about probably a few different kinds of shit show it could turn into living with your brother. You know, just how it is to be in an apartment with him a lot, or, you know, what happens sort of in your whole family in trying to deal with him, and you get pulled into stuff or something. I guess I imagine there a few things like that that you're probably worried about. And also this kind of ongoing thing since you were a kid of being like the one with less money and feeling it.

CLIENT: Mm hm. [33:00]

THERAPIST: As again, shameful and probably like it reflected badly on you in other ways. So I mean, I think I'm clear on the points that you're making about those things. But [I'm like? 33:25] the other big one is about your anger at your dad, or being able to help without really sweating it and choosing not to. And kind of blowing you off as a part of that. Like not being explicit about it or give you an explanation of how reasonable or unreasonable but a direct—

CLIENT: And not making—and making me feel like an issue that's so stressing and painful for me is for him like, "Oh yeah, it's 9:30, she can call me now." Like instead of recognizing how pained I am over this and making it a priority to help me feel a little bit more comfortable, even if he's not offering me ten grand to help me with all of it, you know.

THERAPIST: Right. He's not even really—

CLIENT: Being compassionate with me about it at all.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Sort of in a way that feels like [unclear 34:26].

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Right, in addition to compassionate about how stressful and upsetting this all is, [the combining?]. Which I see from what you said he knows, it's very clear to him. [long pause, over one minute] I see patterns like—maybe I should have— All right, let me just inquire about this. But one is… [pause] … like as much as you're really worried and really I think don't want to be in this situation of having no money and living with your brother, somehow you've gotten completely locked into it. There's a feel of like situationally, but… [pause] … well, you seem to feel very trapped, very locked into the situation, very stuck. And it sounds like your mother's been a bit understanding about it and would be helpful with decorating. But otherwise nobody's really said anything that you've really felt [unclear 38:18]. And any time somebody's tried hints it's like felt disrespectful because it doesn't solve anything and I don't… [pause] And… [pause] You're not going to like me for this. But, you know, there are some things about it a little reminiscent, to be completely honest, about you being with Franklin.

CLIENT: It's all about me being with Franklin.

THERAPIST: How do you [have them?]? I mean, I guess we got around to it a little yesterday, but—

CLIENT: Well, what do you mean?

THERAPIST: I mean you're getting yourself into—you have chosen to be in another situation that's making you feel like shit.

CLIENT: Oh. Well, yeah. And it's not useful. And it's my fault, because I chose to be with Franklin.

THERAPIST: Well, that's the part I'm sort of interested in. Like I'm not trying to let Franklin off the hook by focusing on it, but there's not much we can do about him really. Yeah, the part of you sort of choosing to be with him hoping it would be one way but kind of being in denial that it was another way. Seems a bit like what's going on with the apartment. I mean, I'm not saying it's not a nice apartment, or that it couldn't work out well to live with your brother, but that… [pause] You knew all this was going to happen. Like you know your budget closely enough to know what the extra rent money was going to mean, and kind of you know the situation with your brother well enough to know what you'd be worried about living with him. [41:15]

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: And… [pause] I guess… [pause] I mean, within what, like a week still of signing the lease you're feeling pretty fucked over this whole thing.

CLIENT: Well, [in some ways? 41:47], yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: That's what's happening a lot.

THERAPIST: And I'm not saying you have like all these awesome alternatives that, you know, less expensive, equally nice, two bedrooms with responsible friends who you'd like to live with. I'm not saying you're flooded with those opportunities. And it's certainly possible that I'm kind of barking up the wrong tree here. I mean, the alternative is getting a look at some places, you know a bit about the housing market, it's not like… [pause] I don't know. Maybe some of it like with your dad too? I mean, you're telling me he's an asshole, and you're telling me it sucks, but you know when he's acting because of the way he often acts. But it does feel a little bit not like you're surprised, but like you might have hoped he would be different. [43:10]

CLIENT: I always hope that it'll be different. I guess I always hope that everything will be different.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like I hoped it would be different with Franklin, or I hoped it would be different once we moved in together, I hoped it would be different once he got a better job or once we got a new place or—

THERAPIST: Right. And I guess you hope your brother's going to be different. And that one's tricky because I gather, you know, for six months or so he actually has been different than he was previously oftentimes.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Like he's working I guess.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: It would seem to me there's some hope there too.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: In spite of the fact that he's 30 years old and has not pulled his shit together in all the time that he's had. And I hope he does. I'm not trying to be sort of negative about it, I'm just saying it would seem to [recall/require? 44:13] quite a bit of optimism.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And it seems to have been pretty dangerous for you, like with Franklin and with your dad especially I guess. With Michael it sounds like it's very hard to watch him suffer with some of the things that he has, but it doesn't sound like the repercussions there have been as immediate for you as they could be if you living together.

CLIENT: Mm hm. Are you saying it's a bad—like should I not do it?

THERAPIST: I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just saying like let's keep our eyes open about the risks and how you feel about what it's going to be like, with being strapped, having a dad who will not help, and a brother who, you know, could lose his job in three weeks, or could have his friends over, want to have his friends over all the time to hang out. Or, you know, it could be a total mess.

CLIENT: Well, luckily his friends have been getting screamed at by me since I was about 12, so if I need to—

THERAPIST: Okay, all right. [laughter]

CLIENT: No, you're right.

THERAPIST: I guess—yeah.

CLIENT: Honestly, my feelings of like panic are more sort of in my personal financial situation.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Separate from the living with Michael and how he's going to manage his finances. I mean, I think that my mom helping him is what needs to happen. [46:00]

THERAPIST: [Are you positive?] that's going to work financially?

CLIENT: Him or me?

THERAPIST: You.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, you can't afford this apartment.

CLIENT: Well then I can't afford any apartment besides the one I'm in. And they'll probably raise the rent anyway so what's the difference, right.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And I only think it's $300 more a month for this new place than I have now.

THERAPIST: Right. But at least when you're describing it it's feeling huge, the difference.

CLIENT: Well, because now the car payment too.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean like—I guess I got it. I mean, in other words, I'm not sure the car if it's really wrong, but I feel like there's something I'm missing about what's going on. Not thinking about what you told me, but there's some stuff about the dynamics about this that I don't—the reality is I think I can, you've been very clear about them and [overtalk]— [47:00]

CLIENT: I mean, I literally feel like if I didn't have this ongoing $275, which is not much over the minimum on this huge balance of credit card that I have, if I didn't have that, that $275 would be enough cushion for me to not feel panicked about all the other shit in my life.

THERAPIST: Right. Right.

CLIENT: And that's like a big thorn in my side right now, because $275, that's like 20 years of payment every single month without fail. And it feels like shit. And I'm fixating on that $275. And it's like my father's like, "Well, we're giving you $250 a month." So why don't you just fucking pay it off? Like why don't you just pay it off, you don't have to give me money a month. We can figure out when I can actually start paying you back for this money as opposed to it just being money you are giving me every month that's kind of like not really helping because I'm still using it towards this— It's like so fucked up and backwards to me. That's what he literally said, like, "Well, how much more do you want us to do?" Not more, just bulk.

THERAPIST: We're going to stop for now.

CLIENT: Okay, so I'll see you on Wednesday at 9:15, is that right?

THERAPIST: Let me just make sure. I've got a new planner now that July's here so [unclear]. Yeah.

CLIENT: On the third?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Okay. All righty. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Have a good weekend. [49:00]

THERAPIST: Thanks, you too.

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