TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Alright. (LAUGHTER) (PAUSE) That's awesome.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: Yeah. So how are you?

THERAPIST: Good. Yeah. So I guess this will be for about three weeks.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Great. Okay.

THERAPIST: What are you going to be doing?

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm (inaudible at 00:00:53) eventually. But I haven't scheduled it yet. I thought there would be a house for me. It's just... Every day is a new thing. I keep working on it. [00:01:03]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: What I should do is get a time, get a flight or work toward it. I keep sort of procrastinating the flight. Arizona is 127 degrees today.

THERAPIST: Oh my gosh. (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: Yeah. You know my dad. He never complains about the heat. He's like, "Yeah, it's going to be hot the next few days." It's 126, 127, 127...

THERAPIST: Holy moly.

CLIENT: Yeah. But once it gets like 115 it's all the same, just like logically (ph). (LAUGHTER) Anyway... My mom had a scare because she thought she heard the central air... That's like an emergency like 911.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's like heat in Canada. [00:02:05]

CLIENT: So yesterday's project at the house was all of the second floor there are these antique decorative door handles. So they're glass. It's all (inaudible at 00:02:29) So on the hall side of these, it's this sort of painted wood effect. It's these wooden doors that are painted in such a way that it actually made it look like it had grain. One the inside, all of the doors are white. And so they painted over that rosette. [00:02:59]

So yesterday's project was... How do you get these things off? Because I wanted to restore the doors. (inaudible at 00:03:11) So I go to this place and ask a bunch of question and they said, "You need paint thinner and you need paint stripper and you need gloves that aren't going to be eaten though. You need a mask. You need all this stuff." Well, online I found out a way to do it is if you order all the parts. First of all, you get all the parts for the door (ph). So I had an exacto knife and I'm scraping at the screw. You can't unscrew it because it's so painted over. There's nowhere for the screw to ever go on the inside. [00:03:55]

So I'm scraping, scraping, scraping, scraping just that little line because it's a flat head not a phillips. (inaudible at 00:04:09) Then I have to get all these parts in a pot and boil them with water and then just add this plastic. So I'm scraping and boiling and scraping and boiling. The paint comes off. Then I've got brass though for brass polish. So then (inaudible at 00:04:29) So now I figured out the next project is so sand the doors. (inaudible at 00:04:41)

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: And then I need the computer fixed. So while I'm boiling parts I'm... (PAUSE) I don't know why she doesn't just buy a new computer. She has a laptop. So I was taking her computer and replacing her hard drive and then trying to download Windows 7 for her to install it. [00:05:03]

So yesterday was this multi-tasking day. (LAUGHTER) I'm boiling parts and I'm worried about this vapor and wearing big gloves. I take off the gloves and I'm worrying about the computer. Today the landscapers are there.

THERAPIST: What are they doing?

CLIENT: Taking all these bushes. It's an elevated front yard. So now they're... With bobcats it's much easier for bobcats to (inaudible at 00:05:39) They're talking out part of the front lawn so driveway is bigger. They're moving a bunch of rocks that I had brought out but they're so heavy, I couldn't actually get them anywhere. So they're just sitting there.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah?

CLIENT: So they rolled in the bobcat and the dump truck.

(PAUSE) [00:06:00]

CLIENT: I was just visiting Dwayne (ph).

THERAPIST: Visiting...

CLIENT: Oh I've been visiting Dwayne. Dwayne... We took a math class together and he's there. He's my Brazilian friend. (PAUSE) So, anyway, that's what's been going on. He's working on a house and he's doing most of the projects. But I somehow need to... (PAUSE) I don't know. I need to somehow figure out the job I want and go after it. And I feel (inaudible at 00:06:57) I feel paralyzed. I don't know what it is. [00:07:01]

So... (PAUSE) I don't know. And it's not a problem that can be solved in 45 minutes. But there's that.

THERAPIST: That's something that...

CLIENT: Yeah. It's the elephant in the room.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You know, just off the... I mean, definitely let's keep, let's talk about it. I just wanted to throw out there that... I've thought about this from time to time. But I guess maybe I didn't bring it up because it's kind of... It's an expensive thing. You know who works, does help people with this kind of things is... (inaudible at 00:07:51)? He does this kind of stuff. In terms of... Well, he does this. He helps people kind of like come up with a plan of what to do. He does a lot of psychological testing and cognitive testing and stuff and a lot of vocational testing. You know, stuff that's a lot more than just, you know, simple one or two paper and pencil and then they say you're just supposed to be an undertaker and stuff like that, you know. [00:08:19]

CLIENT: Speaking of which... (LAUGHTER) From my bathroom, I saw someone digging a grave today.

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Yeah, I remember our graveyard discussion from last time. But it has the benefit of really doing, yeah, yeah, trying to identify what you'd like and what you'd enjoy and that sort of thing. But he also gets out the psychological component and does a lot of like figuring out the practical plan on how to go through with that. And it... You know, it tends to help people just feel like they've got a way to structure and organize a kind of a... Like, as you know, it feels like an overwhelming task. [00:09:07]

CLIENT: I guess it's a bit of money.

THERAPIST: I mean, my guess is somewhere around 30 grand or somewhere like that.

CLIENT: Ouch.

(CROSSTALK)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But yeah. I'm... (PAUSE) I went to... So thanks for saying that. I'll enter it in. It's just the price tag.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But, I mean, with (inaudible at 00:09:57) MIT, a long time ago the job person there gave me, the Johnson & Johnson (ph).

THERAPIST: Johnson & Johnson, yeah. [00:10:09]

CLIENT: Which is, you know, useful just as a topic of discussion. It sort of launches thinking about oneself in a career, I suppose.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So interestingly, (inaudible) Dakota (ph) and myself were all the same.

THERAPIST: Oh is that right? The types...

CLIENT: Yeah. The types were just... It was like... I don't know.

THERAPIST: Do you remember which one? I don't remember...

CLIENT: Yeah. It's four letters, right? It's...

(PAUSE) [00:11:00]

CLIENT: I was introspective or intuitive. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Introspective.

CLIENT: So it turned out (inaudible at 00:11:11) sort of the, on the surface of it, like the least money making type. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Well, I mean (inaudible at 00:11:35)

THERAPIST: That's interesting.

CLIENT: It's like introspective and feeling and thinking... Those are sort of like, "Okay, you aren't out there doing (inaudible at 00:11:53)

(PAUSE) [00:12:00]

CLIENT: But there was a period of time... There was a few weeks (inaudible)

THERAPIST: What did it lead you?

CLIENT: Well, what it told me was like... You know, because they have all these Johnson & Johnson things. There was relationships. At that point, I, you know (inaudible at 00:12:29)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So whatever you do here (inaudible) make sense of something. I mean, I might as well have, you know (inaudible).

(PAUSE) [00:13:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Looking for answers.

CLIENT: So I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Tell me where you...

CLIENT: Well, today, I'm not really feeling it. I'm just aware of this as a fact, right? (PAUSE) Like it's fine and it's useful to be doing stuff around the house because that is something that has to be done. Although, none of it has to be done (inaudible at 00:13:41) and save you money. You could have cleaners come in. You could have people come in and do this. But I could teach myself and I can do it. You know, so that's what I do.

(PAUSE) [00:14:00

CLIENT: But there's a sense of just being in the house, right? So then you begin to be a perfectionist and I am a perfectionist and then it sort of comes out because you stare at things and I have time to deal with it. So... (PAUSE) Facebook, the CEO of Google, and... You know, I didn't buy the book. We were over at Claire's (ph) and everyone was just sitting around and I was reading the book while they were talking. And she said there's an expression in Google which is, "Done is better than perfect." There's nothing wrong with the idea of perfection. So, you know, just get it done. [00:14:55]

Anyway, so I'm out and about... So, for instance, if I'm with (inaudible) at various things and I think, "Well, at some point you've just got to do it. At some point you've got to bite the bullet." Right? Instead, I look and think, "Well, you know, I can just keep working on this right here until I get that just perfect." So I keep sanding and sanding. Like it's an old house. The walls are falling. But somehow there's this thing like I wish we had (inaudible at 00:15:37)

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: But it's like, you've got to do the ceiling first. So the ceiling is done. It's a new ceiling. But you've got to prime it. You've got to paint it. It was primed. Then the doors first before doing the color coat. So with yesterday's project, I'm thinking, "Well, if I'm going to be up on a ladder (inaudible)." [00:16:05]

Lately she's been not wanting to get up on a ladder. So it's like, "Alright fine." So I'll paint all the doors. So I get all the hardware. So it's like this proverbial onion where a lot of things need to be done and you're sort of doing things on parallel tracks. Meanwhile, I'm not making money on it. I'm not getting paid to do it. It's a tough job.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I... (PAUSE) You know, and then the thing is, right, my default position is to think, "Well, okay (inaudible)." Well, easier said than done. You have to go out for it. You actually have to... You have to go through all the annoying details of sending everything in. [00:17:11]

It's not like you have to send a resume in and a cover letter in and get an interview and that's it. No. You're a teacher. You've got to send all this crap in, all this licensure stuff, all of this stuff, right, for a job. It's just like no. Because then it's like, "I don't want to." So I feel like the first step is to think about something I really want to do which is... At this point, it feels like a luxury. That's standing in the way. That's the thing. So standing in the way is the feeling that what I like to do right now... I really... Whatever. I've said a number of times. For some reason, I really like traveling around and teaching first aid and CPR. I really like it. (inaudible at 00:17:57) [00:18:01]

It's like being a missionary somewhere. It's like being a missionary of math and science. (LAUGHTER) So I'm like a traveling person who does some sort of strange rehabilitation where people feel better afterwards.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, I like all the positive feedback (inaudible at 00:18:21) So I feel like I'm always getting that feeling of, "Okay, I can do this well."

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But, you know, not full time, not even part time.

THERAPIST: How many hours a week is it? It probably ranges though. But what is...

CLIENT: Yeah, it ranges. Two to three classes a week.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But it varies. So, I mean, there's not... (PAUSE) I told my mom about this. [00:19:03]

So I went down and there's this place. I forget what it's called. But it's a... Some people live there I think. But it's just this big sprawling place. It's like a converted mansion of associated houses where people... So people who are in rehab... (inaudible at 00:19:37) oxycontin and heroin and so forth. So this happened to me. This was last week. It was almost 95 for three days. And Grandma (inaudible at 00:19:49) [00:19:59]

So it's a big sprawling place and I have to find the right person and it's fine. (inaudible) He could direct me to the right place. So I go in this big, big air conditioned TV rec room with lots of couches and I start to teach. So I get set up and people come in and I start to teach and it's good. They're leaving. I have a lot of stuff that I have to carry around. So I've got this little suit case and I've got the mannequin and I've got a table sometimes I have to use. So I bring the table and I've got my computer bag and I've got my bag I carry the LCD projector in. You know, it's always... Carrying it's okay because I have like a system of folding it. It's the doors that are always the problem, when you have to like put something down to open the door. So I go downstairs and I come to this door and I get through the door. And there's all these guys in this other room watching television that was not air conditioned and I don't want to walk in front of them because they're watching television. But it's like a big pool tables and lots of stuff. It's like a cafeteria. So there's like lots of little tables and chairs. [00:21:15]

So I finally like make my through and it's just like a wall of stuff. So I'm moving chairs out of the way with my feet. And this guy said, "You could have come this way. We don't bite."

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: Right? He said, "Can I give you a hand?" He goes, "Come on." He says something like, "Just open the door." So the other guy opens the door and suddenly the big guy who said "we don't bite" says, "Here, give me that table. Give me that bag." He walks up. He says, "Where are we going?" I said, "Station wagon up there." So we walk over there. They put the stuff in back and he said, he goes... I actually said, "I'm Brian (ph) by the way." He goes, "Oh, you've got my name." [00:22:09]

He said his name was Brian too. And then we stood there for the next hour in the blazing sun with the back hatch open in the car, him telling me the story of transformation. Like he had been in and out of jail ten times, armed robbery, banks, you know, just like beating people up and had no desire to ever get better, didn't even realize he was hurting people. And then he... It somehow clicked and he said... He goes, "Now, I haven't done heroin in ten months." He said, "In two more months, I'm going to get my one beer (ph)." [00:22:03]

We're the same age, right? His name is Brian, same age. But he's like 6'5'' and 300 pounds, big guy. And just this... The honesty... And I feel like... I've always been impressed with this... I've always been impressed by people who I've met who are in these sort of programs because the honesty with which they speak, the absolute candor is... It's so... It's so to the point. It's so real. And... (PAUSE) And I'm not an addict. [00:24:01]

I like the twelve step idea, right? It's built into the program. I like (inaudible) the honesty with which they talked about their problems... Right? Because that's what's underlying abuse. Right? Being upfront and honest about being fucked up. And when you listen to it, you can't help but think, yeah, "I'm not drinking. I'm not doing heroin. I'm not doing oxycontin. I'm not breaking into things. But it's like, I'm fucked up. I'm just not using." You know? I don't know. So I listened to Brian. We talked and talked. You know, just the sort of life story. It's so poignant. And then, he said, "Yeah, a couple of weeks ago, I had all these gall stones. I had 21 gall stones. I had to go and have a procedure done and the doctor said, 'You know, we're just going to give you some sedation and, you know, some morphine.'" [00:25:17]

He said, "No." The doctor said, "It's really going to hurt." He said, "No. I'm clean." He says, "You give me morphine, I know I'm going to use again. I know it's going to hurt. I know the pain if I get hooked again." He goes, "It's true." And he goes, "It hurt." But he goes, "I couldn't have it. I couldn't have it." So I was talking to him and, you know... I watched this movie. It was on Truman Capote and the writing of "In Cold Blood." [00:26:01]

So Truman was Phillip Seymour Hoffman and the other one was "Infamous." And Toby Jones (ph) plays a peculiar, fascinating Truman Capote. So they finally are in the Midwest and they are trying to (inaudible at 00:26:33) This old farmer in the middle of the field. The farmer looks at Truman and looks are Harper (ph) and tried to explain, like, how could violence happen. If you read the story "In Cold Blood," so the farmer said to Truman Capote, he said, "You know..." He goes, "If there was a list of how to be a good farmer and family man and business man," he goes, "He was it. He did everything right. He showed up to church not to look like he was doing the right thing. But he really listened." [00:27:15]

So this family was killed and the farmer was reflective. He said, "You know," he says, "I always thought in life that when you do good in life, it gives you weight (ph). When you do good, it gives you weight and you're connected to earth. And so every time you do something that's right, you're glued to the ground."

THERAPIST: You're what?

CLIENT: It glues you to the ground. He said, "But..." He goes, "Now things... Maybe it's the woman. In all those good things you've done, in all the weight that you have, that wind blows and it's like you're blown away like a feather." [00:27:57]

It's that temptation. Anyway, so I relayed this to Brian because... I mean, he listened to that and he didn't have, you know, a deeply thoughtful response to it but I think he understood and I was trying to convey the film and that scene. But there was this sense of right now he never in his life felt he did anything good. In fact, he felt like the opposite. And now, he's saving up towels (ph) and saving up soap so that when people come in and they don't have anything, he can hand them a towel and soap. So he's proactively being good, right? He wants to help people. He realizes that when you show up in one of those places, you've got nothing and to have a towel and soap means a lot. It means everything to people. [00:29:07]

So he stockpiles this stuff and... But, you know, for him all this good that you do, all of this hope and somehow life is going to be different, holding on and being helpful, it's a new thing. And I didn't say this to him but I thought, "This is the new diction." Right? The new diction is (inaudible) is completely throwing oneself into the opposite. Right? And then his phone rang and he showed me the picture on the homepage of his phone is an emblem from narcotics anonymous and he talked about how he wanted to get a tattoo with NA and then the angel wings around it. [00:29:57]

So, you know, again, me not saying this to him, but I think this is the diction now. If you have that (inaudible) you can't do things in the past. You have to go completely the opposite. Anyway, so I thought, you know... So I wanted... I was conveying this idea. He is doing so much good and me validating that and conveying and listening and how impressed I was, right, by all of this transformation and yet acknowledging that he knows and I know and everyone knows the condition of his life that the littlest thing, the littlest thought or littlest temptation can undermine all of his good.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Hmm. [00:30:57]

CLIENT: So, for me, I don't know what that means other than if I go into inventory and it's good, that gives me weight, outweighs the other things (inaudible) which are the temptations that blow me away. And right now do I have weight or am I in this process of for maybe recently or maybe a long time just sort of being blown around? I don't know. Am I a feather or am I connected to the ground? I don't know. I don't know right now. If you're an addict, it's clear. Right? You're either using or you're not and it's stark. Right? That is the biggest thing to go with. But it's these other things that aren't as dramatic. It's hard to know. [00:32:07]

And maybe it's... Maybe it's episodic over the course of a day. Sometimes you're on the ground. Sometimes you're (inaudible at 00:32:11) Sometimes you're not. And you never really know when you're launching in the air or when you're on the ground. When am I being real and when am I not being real? (PAUSE) I don't know. And then the backdrop to all of this, I suppose... You know, I mean, talking to Brian, thinking about whatever I think about, is this fascinating... That's not the right word. But compelling (inaudible at 00:32:57) [00:32:59]

So somehow I look at it and I think, "I can be judgmental. I can (inaudible)." He can be the other. He can be the embodiment of evil. He can be, you know, whatever we think about in terms of whenever the (inaudible at 00:33:27) notion of evil?

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah, yeah. The... Oh, I was thinking of the finality (ph) of evil.

CLIENT: Yeah. And how evil is this creation, right, that we project everything else on this other thing. So, all the sudden, there's a sense of, "Alright. He is the bad guy."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And I feel like I don't want to be soft. Right? And I feel like, you know, it is sort of, you know... [00:33:57]

Kyle (ph) has said something interesting. He said, "We could comment about (inaudible) No. He is the bad guy. They were hanging out with him. He's it. He is the bad guy. (inaudible) Anyway, what's fascinating about it is this idea of having this sense of one's self, perhaps, if one wants to be sensitive about it, as I think my default position is to really try not to be critical of people, try to feel some sort of sympathy. The sense of like whatever you're feeling is, right, at a young age, whatever, however that is, and then all of the sudden, you're in this for the rest of the world perfect place. [00:35:01]

You're part of a franchise with a kind benevolent owner, with a coach who is the best, with the elite players who compete for super bowls. He's in that and with some part of him thinking, "This isn't me. This is false. I can't do it. I can't be this good. I can't be this good." Having the talents, but feeling this is not me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And somehow... Now, sadly, if it is sadly, I don't know, but that feeling of being... I mean, somehow my fantasy is he was extraordinarily lonely being the patriot. And so somehow there is this other whatever... Interestingly, the first two killings were in July.

THERAPIST: Off season.

CLIENT: Is it the seasonal thing? Right? The secret life, secret condo, secret gun, secret friends, secret, secret, secret. [00:35:59]

THERAPIST: Oh, is he the one with the secret condo?

CLIENT: Yeah. He had this other condo, this unlicensed home. He was renting... He had this fleet of cars that people were using. He would go to this other place and no one would know he was there.

THERAPIST: Is that right? Yeah.

CLIENT: This other life.

THERAPIST: Other life. Right.

CLIENT: The other life and it's like did the pressure increase? Because all the sudden he had to pretend that he's something that he found very difficult to be and didn't know how to be. He didn't know how to be wealthy. He didn't know how to be wealthy. He did not know how to be around, you know, the golden boy, where that's sort of the idea. Right? Somehow being... I mean, how does a person from a lower income family, albeit from Newport (ph), Rhode Island. I'm not sure if there are mean streets in Newport.

THERAPIST: Apparently there are. Yeah.

CLIENT: Are there?

THERAPIST: That's what they were saying. Yeah.

CLIENT: Are they?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Guys that... There used to be gangs in Newport. Somebody was talking about that. You wouldn't think in Newport. But... [00:37:05]

CLIENT: Yeah. So... And so somehow from a very young age, perhaps, I don't know, teenager (inaudible at 00:37:21) incorporating that... That's how he sees himself, which... (PAUSE) You know, I resist this idea... I know I've mentioned this. But I resist this idea that somehow he's just this bad seed. Because you see the interviews and he seems genuinely thankful to have gotten the contract. He wants to be good. Right?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Because he was genuinely... Like he was thankful. He was really thankful to be part of it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: And yet, somehow, he couldn't do it. And now he's around a quarterback who not only is the face of the NFL but himself, from an upper middle class family in the bay area who was... You know, he went from being comfortable to rich as opposed to going from, you know, poorish and struggling to rich. [00:38:11]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Right.

CLIENT: To... I'm not sure... It's clearly disorienting when you start making... I mean, I wouldn't know. But, I mean, clearly, it's a huge thing. Right? But I'm sure the transition from going from being stark poor to being way familiar in the NFL isn't quite a big transition as it is for (inaudible) him (ph) where the family tradition was not such that... Well, if you didn't play in the NFL, you went on to something else and be comfortable. And yet, lots of players in the NBA it's... They come from these backgrounds and, yeah, so you have like... It's hard to give up these friends. It's hard to give up where you come from. [00:39:01]

You know, it's like the Seven Up series. Right?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: And so, at some level, at some level, is there a relief and is there a sense of him now being in a small cell? Is there something in them that says, "This is where I thought I would always be," and there's some relief not being in a mansion and not being with the football team and the reality is going to set in. This is not a good place. It's clearly not where he wants to spend the rest of his life. But is there some bit of relief because it's the fulfillment of what he thought about himself when he was 15? Like (inaudible at 00:39:53) I don't know. [00:39:59]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Some way he can kind of get back in contact with that side of himself.

CLIENT: And the problem is, you know, it would have been preferable to, you know, get busted for drunk driving and spend the weekend in jail and have that experience and have that experience as opposed to now the prospect of having three people dead and spending the rest of his life in a place like that. So, how does that analogize? Right? I don't know. Like, all of us, right, there's something we're drawn to like the proverbial moth to the fire. You know, sometimes we don't even know what that fire is. We don't know what that is that's...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...attracting us and yet it would be preferable to be aware of it and realize, "Oh, I'm not going to, in Brian case, use because that is going to be perhaps the last time he gets high or kill people like Aaron Hernandez because, for whatever reason." [00:41:11]

THERAPIST: You know, one thought I have is... This might seem out there. But I was kind of thinking about it in terms of the way to analogize it. What I was thinking was you getting a teaching job is kind of like you being this kind of, the kind of this good guy, you know, the kind of... Not an angel. But you know what I mean. Like, "I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing." And, in some way, I think one level being that not working has meant to you is that, "I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing." And it made me think of that the pull of that in some way is some sort of... Is that some sort of field of a connection or a way that you feel about yourself that you want to keep alive? [00:42:05]

I mean, not to say that's the whole aspect of all this. But I was thinking about the, you know, you no longer have the other place. You know? And you're no longer even... Like Debbie (ph) knows you're out of... There's some way that... In some way, you were keeping some side of yourself going in some way all that while and still are. Like the... In some way, there's... (PAUSE) By working you lose that or something like that. I don't want to make it reductive but...

CLIENT: Well, yeah, that's the... That characterizes a lot of it. And the feeling too of like being in this house and fixing it up and feeling like... [00:43:07]

It still doesn't feel... This is probably true of, you know, most people who live in a new place. It doesn't feel like real yet. And it's also just hard because of the aesthetic. I mean, it feels 1950s, 1960s. I mean, you look at the gold and the wood (inaudible at 00:43:31) I suppose, at some level, to paint and renew.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Even still, there's something like, "This is it. This is really my home." Certainly, there's an effort of like doing the stuff. But it's like, "Well..." [00:44:05]

It doesn't feel like an investment of myself necessarily. Like I'm going to really like how it's painted and really like how these doors are done. There's something satisfying in the sense of just sort of, you know, artistic creation and not being distracted by the current look. But the thought keeps going through my head thinking, like, "Are these the stairs that I'm just going to climb and climb and climb and descend and descend and climb and descend all the time? Like are these..." Well, I mean, is this the seven by eleven cell but bigger, meaning how familiar am I going to get with all of this? [00:44:55]

Because right now, it doesn't feel incredibly mine.

THERAPIST: Okay right.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:45:07)

THERAPIST: Yeah. No I see that. Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know. So then I'm contemplating colors and this and that and it's sort of... I don't know. It's odd. I'm very aware of the fact that I'm dealing with an actual matter. Right? I mean, there are real walls and real paint and real scaffolding and there's real glass and it looks like grass. Although, that's interesting. Right? There's sort of whatever. Right? It's the notion of alchemy. This whole notion of alchemy, this whole history of alchemy (inaudible at 00:45:47) somehow being able to take something that was imperfect and invaluable and make it super valuable. [00:46:01]

You know? Taking copper and making it gold...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...that's alchemy. And here, this idea of can you take one's activity with matter and actually have it be symbolically transformative. Right? You're working on the house but you're really working on yourself. Right now, I'm not feeling like the house is myself. I'm feeling like it's a house that I'm trying to somehow feel more comfortable in and it needs more and more alteration and it's possible that it at some point, through my efforts, it's going to be a showpiece. People are going to walk in and go, "Wow." In that moment, it's probably, you know, a month away. [00:46:57]

(CROSSTALK)

CLIENT: People are going to walk in a be really impressed and I will be maybe like Aaron Hernandez did as a Patriot, kind of, "This isn't me."

THERAPIST: That's right. Yeah.

CLIENT: Like what's really me is, in some ways, I feel like rummaging through all my stuff in the basement at (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Yeah, right, right, right.

CLIENT: You know? It's like that's where a lot happened and I was instantly aware of all this stuff there and all this stuff that needed to be done but wasn't done because there was more stuff. You know, I didn't want to be doing all this stuff because it wasn't my place. It wasn't my apartment. This is a shared thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So it's a compromise. Like I don't decide what paint. We decide together. (SGHI)

THERAPIST: Yeah. That's right. I know there's times you're going... I was thinking too though that just like Aaron Hernandez... It is him too though. You know, he is a Patriot. He got there. He did it. He had the discipline and all that discipline and all the stuff. Ho got there. Yet, there's something missing, something also felt missing for him. Something felt lost too and he couldn't find himself completely as a Patriot. [00:48:11]

Then he goes back to the streets to find himself, in some way. Something about that too... That is part you but it's also something missing. Those boxes stay in the basement. They don't come up or something like that. Something like that. (PAUSE) And how, you know... I mean, just like Aaron Hernandez, how the hell are you going straight into the Patriot locker room? It's kind of like how do you bring those boxes, those boxes and unpack them, bring them up to the main area? (PAUSE) And how do you bring all of yourself to your work? How do you bring all of yourself to your work to what you want to do or... Yeah something. [00:48:57]

(CROSSTALK)

CLIENT: I teach, right, I feel like I bring a lot.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: I'm very real. That's why I get the reaction that I do.

THERAPIST: That's so true.

CLIENT: I'm not just a person who's showing up and going through the motions. I see myself a science teacher who happens to be teaching this for the day.

THERAPIST: But is doing something like you feel in your bone something about, like the mission...

CLIENT: Which is peculiar, in some way. (PAUSE) You know, I was thinking, "Well, that's a peculiar calling." (LAUGHTER) But it feels good. I never cease to be pleased when I show up. Whereas, in the classroom, there's that (inaudible) There's just that sense of like just being temporary, of being, making an impact and yet feeling like you're not entirely there or want to be. [00:50:11]

THERAPIST: A role model or something like that. Well, alright. So I guess it will be a couple weeks then.

CLIENT: Yeah. So... So next day is...

THERAPIST: It'll be... It's on the 19th.

CLIENT: Nineteen.

THERAPIST: The 19th and it's going to be... We'll meet at 1:35.

CLIENT: (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, sure.

END TRANSCRIPT