TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: That would make them happy.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Like this is why I never really learned how to respect boundaries because this is going to be a good opportunity for me to set up some kind of boundary and to have for it not to be my idea but for me to go on ahead. Like if I weren't going to be covered then I have to do two time a week. And I'm usually pretty good at knowing when it's time to respect a boundary, and can suck it up, and rise to the occasion, and I don't have to do that.

But I think that was feeling good for them. That is something I need helps more for me. [00:01:19]

THERAPIST: You mean that you will get more used to doing that?

CLIENT: Yeah. That I will be less inclined to push, and push, and push, and then say okay yeah it's fine. I question if I can live with it. Good thing there's plenty of other things in life that I have to (inaudible at 00:01:54). Do you think you would still wear gloves (inaudible at 00:02:09)?

THERAPIST: (Laughter) Let me think about how to answer that one. (Pause) Well it would probably depend in part on the circumstances under which I might use it. [00:03:16]

CLIENT: Like if you're talking to a patient or you're talking to yourself.

THERAPIST: For one.

CLIENT: Do you think it's important in healing or transformation? So we've talked about how the patient's (pause) side of things (inaudible at 00:03:52) or lost, or empty, or anything that could be considered as transference or not? So do you think your side of things is important too (pause) like your strong or your emotions? [00:04:24]

THERAPIST: Sure. (Pause)

CLIENT: Today I woke up feeling super glued down (pause) which feels really normal. And when I feel that way there is like this really clear bubbling of excitement and ease, and like a sense of confidence, and not really worrying about anything in the future or in the past, and things just take on kind of a special quality. (Pause) It's not surprising that it's so bad, and scary, and unacceptable when that glued down feeling when I don't feel that way. They're really different. [00:06:10]

THERAPIST: Yeah, like a whole different mode. (Pause) I'm smiling at when you said before ka-pow.

CLIENT: Well I kind of felt like that didn't it?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Not like in a wild way.

CLIENT: It was like poke. [00:07:35]

THERAPIST: Is that fun?

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I really want to know now. I'm letting it go because I don't know what else to say about it. Not because I'm (inaudible at 00:08:01).

THERAPIST: (Pause) What matters about it is I'm not asking because I can't imagine (inaudible at 00:08:16), but I'm wondering what you have in mind. [00:08:21]

CLIENT: It matters because it seems like a really nice way to love somebody (pause) and it would be instructive to see it in action. I think I do see it in action, maybe more when you label it, I think, as love. I would like to know if you love me because that would make me feel good (pause), and I would like to know if you love other patients, and I just want to know all about it. Is it the same for all your patients? Is it different for every single patient? Does it surprise you ever? Does it (pause)... Does it become easier over time to not have the possessive lusting, investing, preoccupied aspect of love? [00:10:14]

THERAPIST: (Pause) I guess this would also say a lot about what's really going on with me (inaudible at 00:11:08).

CLIENT: Uh huh. (Pause) I think it would also just be nice to know what's the age of change like what's happening. I'm like a spokesperson for psychotherapy in my life and it's nice to be able to explain to people why it's special in a way that doesn't turn them off or turn them away. [00:12:09]

I'm a spokesperson for everything I like. I notice a lot of change in people when I start to value something a lot. (Pause) Some examples are yoga. Like four men in my family starting doing yoga after my discussion with them and Jeremy's family. Meditation; I have five members who now sit a bit with me at school. And this is sort of a lot more private and less accepted but I'm getting there. People will know the benefits and why it might be important to them. So I think it's nice to have some clarity for that reason too. [00:13:25]

THERAPIST: Uh huh. (Pause) Well I haven't answered you directly yet because I don't yet understand well what's going on. I mean there's a quality in you're asking me kind of like announcing yourself in this sort of very bold way like here I am. I'm right here. Are you here? I'm putting it right out there. What are you going to do? Are you right here in this with me or are you going to pussy foot around this like what's going on? And (pause) I guess there's an announcing quality, and a bit of a challenging quality, and a longing quality. [00:15:54]

CLIENT: I feel the longing more than the other things. Maybe it's like my way of feeling comfortable with the longing.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think it's a little like you to do something related to... You really distance yourself from the longing but kind of not exactly disguise it but something a little like that so it's kind of around a little like put the spot light a little bit somewhere else. That's what I'm hoping for. [00:16:36]

CLIENT: Uh huh. (Pause) I guess I want to put you at ease. I don't know why I think whatever I'm doing would put you at ease, but (pause)... You have this way of listening that makes me think that it's coming. It's in there. It's coming out. [00:17:40]

THERAPIST: Like I'm waiting to see what you're going to say.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like watching for a train or something.

CLIENT: (Pause) You're waiting for (pause)... Like you did an experiment, and you're coming back the next day, and you're coming into the room, and you're going to see the results like the second before that. I don't know but I didn't really have much more to say which is why I noticed that because it made me wish that I had more to say. [00:18:44]

THERAPIST: When you talk about wanting to put me at ease (pause) like in what way?

CLIENT: (Pause) Like it's an imposition on you to be longing for your love. And so while I am genuinely interested in other aspects of it, maybe not as much as addressing, or just talking about the longing, or thinking about it. I could put the spot light on other aspects to make it less of an imposition. [00:19:44]

THERAPIST: I see. Like you feel yourself to be putting me under some pressure in some way or making me feel uncomfortable?

CLIENT: Maybe it's an imposition on me. I don't know. (Pause) I guess I'm not really clear on what we're talking about. (Pause) But this is very typical of me. This is like the galvanizing... Yeah, like we have more potential. We need to take a big step forward right now kind of feeling (pause) or a big step somewhere. I don't have a clear picture of this at all. [00:21:28]

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: Do you feel that tension? [00:22:20]

THERAPIST: You mean like now?

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: In the air?

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Me too.

THERAPIST: I still haven't answered your question.

CLIENT: I don't think you're going to.

THERAPIST: That was my impression of (inaudible at 00:22:54)?

CLIENT: No. But maybe the tension is coming from the fact that I don't think you're going to answer the question (pause) and I'm waiting for that to become apparent. [00:23:21]

THERAPIST: (Pause) You know I think there's (pause) something else that's crossing my mind is some question of how's this very different today than way back yesterday morning. [00:25:41]

CLIENT: It's the glue.

THERAPIST: And the glue came before the phone call...

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: The glue is like as soon as I woke up it was like yeah.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. That (inaudible at 00:26:09) down.

CLIENT: Yeah. It was like white, flannel.

THERAPIST: Action. [00:26:16]

CLIENT: Music, yoga. I love this soap. I'm going to get to see if my chemostat exploded. Did I tell you I'm building this cool thing in the lab? I'm building this cool thing in the lab, and I have dreams about it. I don't want to talk about it because it's not that juicy.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Maybe I'll explain it some day but... Yeah the sense of like these are all the great things available to me (inaudible at 00:27:07) and the snow is melting. There are way more places to cross the street now. And just like this bounce. [00:27:20]

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And not really like any need to pause for worry although I've been doing some walking meditation and that was wonderfully focused. Like it doesn't feel hyper. It feels very grounding the quality of the being glued down.

THERAPIST: Yeah. That's the impression that I get. It's not a manic (inaudible at 00:28:00). It's more like that. [00:28:01]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:28:10) vibrant.

CLIENT: Uh huh. And it's really confusing to people. Kelly said to me sometimes she says really inappropriate things. She said you're the happiest depressed person I know. And I talk to Kelly sometimes. I've talked to her about my little journey with (inaudible at 00:28:35). I haven't really talked to her in many months since the last time that I made a switch and then ended up on what I'm on. And she said oh you know it might be worth pursuing because antidepressants can really change some people's life. And that was the last conversation I had with her about my mental health. And at some point (pause) she said you are the happiest depressed person I know and it was terribly uncomfortable. I'm usually very comfortable if I have made that kind of connection with someone where I'm going to talk about a subject. I'm going to talk about it's going to be fine, but this was like I don't know that I am depressed. I don't know that I ever told you that. I don't know what you mean. [00:29:54]

THERAPIST: It really threw you.

CLIENT: I am happy. I don't know what that word means. Why are you watching me in that way? Why are you making this judgment or this conclusion? Do I have to act bad in lab? Is this a challenge, or is it a compliment, or is it just an observation? She says a lot of things that she never thinks about again and people will spend weeks puzzling over it and this is one of those things. But it brings up, I think, a... I think she's right. I think there are aspects of me that are so vibrant, and bouncy, and joyous and that is the part that I've been in touch with most of my life. [00:30:45]

THERAPIST: Right. I think there's not often a lot of conversation between the parts.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: I wonder what would happen.

CLIENT: They're so different. (Pause) I'm trying. Today especially it was so clear maybe because I saw you yesterday and I was going to see you today and I was going to be very clear to you. So I definitely had been thinking all day this will pass. And I have a good idea of what's there because remember that's the day I (inaudible at 00:31:53). That was me too. And maybe that exact same thing isn't there now, but some other thing like that will be there. And maybe it's already here and let's acknowledge that. But, of course, it's like okay yeah, acknowledged back to today's moment. [00:32:27]

THERAPIST: (Pause) Something too seems... There's something about your asking me those questions today that you did that seems kind of like the reverse of yesterday when you said that I was very serious where at that moment, I think, you felt kind of on the spot because... Yeah, go ahead. Because I think the way that I looked may have probably conveyed that, I imagine, you were quite upset or deeply upset and that sort of really registered with me maybe in a way that made you feel self conscious. And it makes me think of these questions today to me sort of putting the focus on me you know. [00:34:15]

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: And I don't think these are a response to the other, but I feel like there's something going on that I don't know sort of a association. Yeah. There's something going on with those two different roles in which of them you're in.

CLIENT: Am I on the spot or am I putting you on the spot?

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause)

CLIENT: I thought a lot about your facial expression yesterday and I wondered (pause) whether you were doing something that my parents never did. [00:35:19]

THERAPIST: That's what I told you right?

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) And also that it was apparent that what I was feeling or showing had registered with you. (Pause) It was like okay I guess we're not going to move on because you're looking at me like this is a time to stop and pay attention. [00:36:13]

THERAPIST: Uh huh. Go ahead.

CLIENT: Maybe we were in like a hunting pack or something and you were (pause) This doesn't really fit very well but you were a dog and you smelled something and you were like this is a very serious smell that we really need to investigate. Not like how can we make it better, how can we figure out what's wrong, how can we do something. Yeah, it was very powerful. Your eyes were like... [00:37:13]

THERAPIST: Uh huh. (Pause) I mean some of that may be me reacting, but I think part of it was because I felt like you were making something in a way very clear to me that you also (inaudible at 00:37:53) did seem to be feeling. And... Yeah. [00:38:08]

CLIENT: How many Indian patients do you have or have you ever had?

THERAPIST: (Pause) Not many. Maybe four or five.

CLIENT: Yeah. Indians really don't do therapy. The decision to marry Jeremy was very hard for a lot of reasons and one of them is that he is an Indian. That was really hard for my mom as I've described. I saw a very handsome black man on the bus today and sort of have this regret that I never slept with a black man or another man. But there have been a couple in my life who I think (pause) would've been wonderful. But I never have that feeling about Indian men, and I never did, and I knew that. So I'm not missing out. [00:40:02]

I don't know. I don't have a longing or a regret about Indian men. At least right now I don't. Maybe later in my life I might. But I think the relationship of Indian children to their parents in this country is more homogenous, or consistent, or fits a narrow distribution compared to the average population. And I think that is an unattractive quality in a partner for me.

THERAPIST: You mean the way they'll be with your kids or they way they've been with their parents?

CLIENT: They way that they are with their parents. And yet I totally have epitomized that quality. But somehow it's not very attractive in a male, or in a partner, or something. [00:41:14]

THERAPIST: (Pause) What aspect of it are you thinking of?

CLIENT: Like being babied or like the link between parent and child sort of not changing throughout life. Where like with Jeremy and with a lot of other people there's a really clear... And that's a deliberate preservation in that link. It's not like where my parents have a value of paying for stuff for me and Jeremy for our whole life, and they also have the value of supporting my grandfather who lives with them for the rest of his life. It's like this circle. Whereas Jeremy's parents are saving for their own old person stuff and that's a really large financial toll when you aren't expecting to move in with your children. [00:42:40]

THERAPIST: Sure. (Pause)

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: (Pause) I think there is something about the two different roles and whether you're feeling glued down or unglued that fits together. [00:43:33]

CLIENT: Me too. (Pause)

THERAPIST: And therapists often I analyze often love or care deeply by their parents that we don't tend to talk much about.

CLIENT: Yet.

THERAPIST: Huh?

CLIENT: Yet.

THERAPIST: Are you yetting the field or...

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Yet in the...

CLIENT: Yet in this relationship. I think you're going to analyze it for me. Do you? (Pause) Or I think it changes on different days.

THERAPIST: (Pause) Let me think about that. [00:44:31]

END TRANSCRIPT