TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I rescheduled [unclear] earlier this week.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Because we had this— So I ended up not going to work on Monday because I was like, I realized that still no bosses were gonna be there Friday. Like I got home.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And then Monday I was like, wait, is anybody—because I had an interview at 10:00, I was going to either go in late or have to like awkwardly [unclear], but whatever. And then once I realized like nobody was there still I was like, hm, forget it. So I stay at home, did this interview on the phone at 10:00 at my house. It went really well from what I could tell. She did say, you know, "We're trying to hire as soon as possible because this position's so—you know, for relocation when would you be available?" And I was like, "Well, you know, I'd need a minimum two weeks' notice or whatever." [1:00]

THERAPIST: I can turn the heat up a little bit too, would that—

CLIENT: Did you just—

THERAPIST: I did a little bit, yeah.

CLIENT: I'd rather like have a sweater with air conditioning.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Not be sweating. So she said, okay, she'll hear back from me later this week. So I wrote her a thank you message, she e-mailed back like two hours after that and said, "I'm looking forward to speaking with you again. Are you available at noon tomorrow?" So it's like, wow, okay, they're trying to move along quickly, she's already met me in person, like whatever.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I make the phone call from an office yesterday.

THERAPIST: What day, Tuesday?

CLIENT: Tuesday. And she starts by saying, you know, "So I wanted to let you know—" This is how she starts the conversation. "I just wanted to let you know that I really want to work with you and I feel like you'd be a great addition to our team." So she's literally presenting it as if I have the job.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I'm thinking, oh wow, thanks. And then she proceeds to tell me that, "Like I said we needed to fill this position like yesterday, so we did hire somebody." I was like, you interviewed me yesterday. But no, it was because it was a casual worker who's been in the casual worker position for like two or three years. Actually that casual worker position was offered to me two years ago when Marjorie Drew first interviewed me, when I first applied for a job there. That person's been there for that long. And so she's like, "Oh, she knows the systems," and blah blah blah blah blah. You know, first of all, if she was an internal candidate from the get—like you knew that you were gonna hire her.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Or why tell—if you needed to hire somebody that quickly why even tell me to apply knowing that would need a minimum—what, you think I'm going to burn bridges with Harvard and up and leave? Are you crazy? Then she says to me, "So that position is filled, but what I can offer you is the casual worker position for $16.50 an hour and 40 to 45 hours a week." I was like, "I make about $30 an hour and work 35 hours a week right now." So I was like insulted and like really irritated. Like you idiot, what is this about? Like you're throwing me a bone here? Like I don't need a damn thing. Like I would have contacted you if I were still desperate. You realize I haven't reached out to you for months now. You know. So I'm like, "Oh, I'll have to sleep on it." Just to be whatever. And so in the morning I like didn't even think about it. I just like wrote her, I was like, "Thanks again for taking the opportunity to speak with me and for offering me the casual worker position. Unfortunately there is no way that I would be able to take that huge of a pay cut as well as a step backwards in my career. Thank you for interviewing me for the Manager position, take care." And then she was like, "Oh, you didn't want to put—like be nicer and contact me for future—" I was like, "No, hell no. This is over. Done." And I mean like in some regards it's good, because there wasn't any more [unclear 3:55], and they made the decision—they reconfirmed my decision. But it was just kind of like, really? And that was just a waste of time and emotion and energy. [4:00]

THERAPIST: Yup.

CLIENT: For to be literally like spat on. Like why would anybody ever do that to themselves? Like I'm going to take a temporary part-time position? Like I'm not that desperate to relocate. If I were I would have just relocated without— [phone rings] I'm just going to turn this off, I'm sorry. Without, you know, a job, if I wanted $14.50 an hour.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Because I could fucking serve drinks. Like I couldn't believe it. So I was so mad, and I was mad at [unclear 4:35] for it. But I didn't want to reschedule on her when I should have just rescheduled on her, but I didn't want to just in case it was like a job, you know, whatever.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So dumb. I mean, whatever. It's over and it's fine, because there's no more what ifs and now I can concentrate on like packing to move within the area. You know, I don't have to worry about all this stuff. But, you know, it reconfirmed how irritated I am with my job and how bored I am. I mean, I didn't do any work all week so far. I mean, I wasn't there on Monday, which nobody knows but. And then yesterday—what day is today, Thursday? Tuesday, yesterday and today literally I did no work. Like maybe answered an e-mail. But did like nothing. No follow up for Tuesday's seminar presenters, no open house pre-work, nothing. Nothing, nothing, nothing, zero. No corporate card that was due on the 30th, nothing. I then proceeded at 1:45 to start in on this to-do list, and I was done in 40 minutes. And this is a whole week's worth of procrastinating. And I was done in 40 minutes, done. And I was like, "Oh my god, I can't do this." Like this is every day, this is how every day is gonna go. And it's not even like I could find stuff to do. I mean, I'm sure I could, but I'd then be taking it away from Melody, who frankly needs the practice more than I do, and has some deadlines for herself so I want to see her do it. I mean, [unclear 6:10] doesn't have anything that she's willing to show me or anything like that because she's more interested in training Alina, and at this point is not planning on leaving herself so she's not really caring about training anybody.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And then I was like, "Oh, maybe I could do this stuff for tomorrow." And I was like, no, because then tomorrow I'll have nothing to do. And then I like feel guilty, because like I'm on Pinterest and I'm on Facebook, and I'm like helping Stephanie find a desk and a new handbag, and you know. So anyway, I've applied for these jobs, which I told Stephanie about and then she was like bitchy about it, and I'm now wishing I hadn't. But I was hoping she'd be like, "Yes, I know a million people and all my relations in every pocket of the university. Because I work with everybody because they all donate to every school, all of our donors."

THERAPIST: Right. [7:00]

CLIENT: But she didn't. She was just like, "Can you let Glenda know? Because she's putting in for your—you know, we're trying to get a raise for you and stuff." And I'm thinking, well, I [should/shouldn't?] be applying to other jobs, the fact a merit-based raise. Like especially if I am going to leave soon, what does it matter? You bring the next person and pay them $5,000 less than I was getting paid in the first place.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: It's because she's bitter, because she's the fucking—because she's not making any moves for herself and is about to be 45. And she has this birthday thing planned, and I know this sounds really mean, but she's like doing this birthday thing, and like doing something on Saturday which I can't go to, or whatever, and not making myself available for. And then brunch on Sunday. But I'm going to tell her something came up where I had to go out of town or something. Because (a), I don't want to spend money, and if I'm going to spend money on somebody's birthday it's not going to be hers, sorry. I mean, I like her enough. But (b), honestly, I don't want to sit there and listen to her be like, "Oh, another year." And like I know you're lying through your teeth. Like you're not happy to be 45 and single and like back from this great trip, and like it's a farce. I mean, I really don't want to take part in it. And I mean maybe it's not, and maybe that's bad to say, but I just think that I'm having a hard enough time like dealing with my own like age and where I'm at and single and the job and whatever that I just—I can't—I don't know, I don't want to hang out with her too much. I think that's what it is, like I'm afraid it's gonna rub off on me. I know that sounds absurd.

THERAPIST: Could be contagious. [8:30]

CLIENT: Contagious. I'm afraid it's contagious. Anyway, so I'm gonna not go. You know, I mean—but whatever. So… Oh, so I haven't heard anything from the business school.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I did not tell Glenda. And I'm not going to, because fuck you [unclear 8:57]. And if she like brings it up in a conversation and Glenda's like, "Oh, Trina didn't tell me." You've got to like, "Oh, I thought you told her." Like, "Oh, I forgot." Because I don't have an interview and I was telling you because like we have a close relationship, but you just make me feel like shit. So then today I applied for a manager position for resource development department at Yale. I know it's scandalous, because it's like close to—whatever. I mean, I guess it's better than going to another ivy.

THERAPIST: [chuckles]

CLIENT: You really—that would be scandalous. But I applied for it. Because I was like, "Meh." And it's exempt, which would be cool, to be out of a non-exempt. I don't know, it has its benefits and it's whatever. But it does mean that you're in a higher pay bracket, which is important to me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I applied. Because, you know, I'd really rather stay at MIT, but it's a very good looking position. I'm just so f'ing bored. Like at this point it's getting to the point where I'm like, "Oh my god, am I going to get fired?" Because I literally like hate my job so much. I don't even hate my job, I'm just sick of doing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over. And like dealing with the same people and the same faculty and the same room scheduling. I mean, this is my fourth school year I'm about to start in a position that I don't think anybody's been in for longer than two years. And in the meantime Larry and I have made another—this guy that I know that I went on a date with that I had fun with that I've been talking to a little bit still, the one that has a kid.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: We made a date for Saturday night and he said, you know, he'll come into here. But now I feel like all this anxiety over like planning something. And then I like started thinking about okay, well, if we did this and then it's only a second date and then what would I wear. And I like got really annoyed at like this whole song and dance that I'm having to go through with this dating thing, and you know. I don't know. Like I don't even want to go out to eat because I don't—I don't know, like I get something in my teeth. It's just like stuff that I don't want to have to think about or plan. I just don't want to like plan the date. This whole dating thing is just not for me. Like I'm not having—like I don't want to have— And like I have fun if I'm hanging out with somebody that I like I guess, but I don't know, the idea of like thinking of where to go, and like will it be good, and will it be conducive to conversation, or should we eat a whole meal, or what should we eat, or should we go do something outside. And then like I do appreciate that he's coming here instead of meeting at the house or going to his part of town, but at the same time it does make me feel like it's an obligation in terms of choosing a place. Because what does he know, and I don't want to—I'd rather not choose a place because like I don't think he knows. Or I don't think it really matters, but.

THERAPIST: I think your point is that you kind of feel like you've been treated and taken care of a bit and able to really relax with somebody and feel like they're really there for you. In contrast to having to be on and think a lot about how you're presenting yourself. [13:00]

CLIENT: Right. What the implications of any particular choice of date activity is, you know.

THERAPIST: Sure. And you're worried that it's going to wind up making you feel bad somehow. Yeah, right. And as you say put in the [unclear] work.

CLIENT: I mean, there's supposed to be thunder storms on Saturday night, like on top of stuff.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And then I'm like, "Oh, mini golf." It's always been fun, I always remember that as a fun date, like I was in high school and stuff. But then I'm like if I wanted to look cute and wear heels and a skirt or something like you can't really do that with mini golf, so then it changes the whole dynamic of the thing. But if he's coming at 7:00 or 8:00 on a Saturday I don't think mini golf and like—that's not what I would want to do, like I would rather go out and have drinks or dinner someplace and like look nice. So like those are the types of things that I—

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I'm just like never not worrying. And I think Stephanie wants to like end it with Aiden is kind of looking to me to like advise her on that. And I have no advice. Like, "You're on your own with that one. You've gotten yourself into this mess, you've got to get yourself out." I mean, she let it go to this point where it's like this awkward are we boyfriend, are we not? I never really wanted to be with you, but just let it go on this far because I was lonely and being selfish, so now here I am and I don't really like you and I'd like to end it before it gets too far. Or before you end it with me and I get sad because I think I'm less than I am even though I didn't want to be with you. Like this is her talking.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [15:00]

CLIENT: And I have no idea what to tell her. I mean, I have no idea what I would suggest. Like I don't know. Like I'm going to still be friends with them, I'm glad that I reunited with them, I haven't seen them since high school and college.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And honestly, she let it go this far. Like she knew that she didn't really feel like he would be somebody that she could imagine saying I love you to, or owning a home with, or living with even. But now she's at an awkward point where she doesn't—and I don't know what to tell her, and it's a little frustrating for me to even like have to listen to it, because I'm like, I don't know, like I don't have this problem in the slightest. So I don't know. I mean, like there are a lot of things I would say that I wouldn't want that they have about their relationship together. But like one of the things that, you know, she's able to do that I feel like I wish was the case, like instead of having to plan dates and think about stuff and meet people places and [blah? 16:11], is like just to go someplace, just like go be like, "Oh, we're gonna do this tonight," and just like—because then it's not—

THERAPIST: Right, she doesn't have to worry about who she's gonna make plans with.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Or how it's gonna reflect on her.

CLIENT: Right. Right, or like eating in front of somebody or—yeah. Anyway, but I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing him again, which is I guess a good thing. I mean, I'm starting to already feel like this distance thing is like not great. I mean, there are some things that I think could be good in terms of like me not, you know, repeating habits in terms of forming relationships, in the sense that I don't have the availability to like see him any time that I want. So the likelihood of me kind of like doing my whole like too close too fast, like too involved too fast, like doing too much for somebody too fast because I like them and whatever, is less of a factor, and I think that that's good for me. And it also does like make it that much more fun when you see the person after a little while I imagine. You know, and it's not like long distance from a different state or a different country, like idiotic though in his poor way. But, you know, on the other hand it does make things like this complicated, and like am I gonna be planning it every time he's in town, does he plan it every time it's in his side, are we ever going to go out in between, there's nothing really in between, like—

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And so I'm kind of already like—I don't know, like over it. Or like anticipating that it'll be an issue. [pause] [18:00]

THERAPIST: I guess with a lot of this I feel like it's just sort of like a little bit a trap of just—or whatever, the other day. But there's not a lot of room to maneuver.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: You know, like there's, yeah, you might have some interest in him, but there are so many things going against it, well, you know, it's pretty much over already.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: You know. Just part of [unclear 18:44].

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Or like with Stephanie talking to you—she wants to talk to you, and she's sort of interested in your life and your health, but you don't want to tell her, and she got herself into this mess anyway, and like… [pause] … sort of like you feel a little kind of put upon or used maybe given how she's been also with you through the relationship, and now she's asking for advice about it, and it's kinda like, what the fuck?

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: You know, we're supposed to be friends, you guys do stuff together.

CLIENT: I mean, she's been really good to me this week with like me having a difficult week. Like I told her it's just like you went—

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, but it's kind of—and all that stuff's sort of like circling around her asking you this thing, and it sort of feels again like kind of sort of [unclear 19:51] and just forget it, I don't want to talk to it about her. I mean, maybe you will, I don't know. But the sense I get as you describe is like, well, all these kind of feelings and all at once, and… [pause] … I just kind of wanted to like throw it overboard, or I kind of [unclear]. Like there's not a sense of like, oh, well, I'm kind of a [unclear], I'll talk to her, [unclear] about it, and how nice that she wants my advice in a way. But, you know, and we also have— You know, there's like no sense of I can work this for her. Maybe that's it, yeah. I can work this for her and work it for me. You know, I can tell her why I'm frustrated about it [unclear], but I'll also be there for her in this way. So like she gets what she wants, I get something I want, I get to have my [unclear], it helps her. It's sort of like it's all so tightly balled up, it's kind of like there's just no room to maneuver, and forget it I don't want to deal with it.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And it sounds a little like the dating thing, like your job.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: You know, it's not like, well, I've got this time, and it kind of sucks, but I can use it to do X, Y or Z constructive thing that I want to do [unclear 21:09]. You know, and I guess I can pick up this other thing so I don't feel quite so useless or unproductive there. It's like, you know, [unclear 21:20] not having anything for me to do, and [unclear] still there. And, you know, the free time makes me feel like shit because I should be working, and there should be really things to do. And I should have got myself out of this two years ago.

CLIENT: Right. Or last year even.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And there's so much kind of then like insult and frustration and anger. There's sort of like no room to maneuver.

CLIENT: Mm hm. Yeah. I mean, and Stephanie says the same thing. She's like, "I don't understand. Like search for jobs then if you're bored." I'm like, "That takes five seconds. There's three jobs in Boston that I would want to apply to right now."

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah, I don't think I have like a practical suggestion, I'm just saying there's—because there's something about the way that like… [pause] It's a combination of sort of shame and frustration and resentment somehow. It's like it has you all like stuck.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's like if you didn't feel ashamed of having nothing to do you'd find something to do with the time. And if you didn't feel insulted that they didn't have anything for you to do you'd find other things to do for them somehow.

CLIENT: Mm hm. [23:00]

THERAPIST: But you feel both. You feel like nothing works.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or with Stephanie, like feeling a little resentful when you talk to her. And, I don't know, if you get so resentful you wouldn't want to deal with her at all and you wouldn't even care.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Just kind of both I think.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I like care about her and whatever, it's just like hard to talk to her about that. It's just like from the beginning when she's had her doubts I've been like, "Well, it's early, you don't have to still see him."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And so now when it's like literally they'll have been seeing each other for a year in November, but still. And in the meantime I don't know why I'm so—like I have so much anger about Lucas's marriage to this woman abroad. And it's not about—like I do think he's handsome and I do think like we'd make probably a good couple if we ever like tried to. Like whatever, that's moot, that's not the point. But like I feel, aside from any like oh, he's cute—I don't know what it is. Like, okay, he was talking about how their anniversary is coming up on like the 23rd or something. And like I was like in my head had made like a really stupid—like imagining like what he might put on his Facebook on their anniversary. Like, "A year ago today I married my best friend and I haven't seen her since." Like I don't know. And then like Stephanie, like the other day I was like—she said something about it because she's been helping with them. And she's like talking about like oh, when she gets here. Because Aiden and like the couples and— And I was like, "When is she getting—" Oh no, this is what I said. Because she had been talking about that, then we started talking about how she got in a fight with Aiden because the boys had been like partying and like being crazy and like doing coke and like just being stupid. And then I said, "Lucas's gonna have a rude awakening when she gets here." And Stephanie said, "She's not [getting here? 25:41]." And I was like, what? She's like, "I'm just saying, they're like both retarded and can't fill out forms, and I don't know, I've done all that I can do." Like I don't know why they wouldn't have hired an immigration lawyer who specializes in this and thrown money at it, as much as they possibly needed to from the beginning.

THERAPIST: Right. [26:00]

CLIENT: And I feel like—maybe that's why it makes me angry. Because I'm like, "Why wouldn't you have done this the right way?" Like, "You're so lucky to be married and find somebody that you love." Maybe that's what it is. Like what the fuck is your problem? Like fuck you that you're just sitting here like eating burritos with me and Stephanie and Aiden and like not saving money so that you can at least go there and visit her once during the year that you're waiting. I don't know, maybe that's what it is. Like it's like a resentment, and so like it makes me angry. Like, you idiot! And it does seem—it's like really pathetic that their anniversary is here and they haven't seen each other. I mean, that's really said. Anyway. I think I just have resentment towards everybody. I mean, I can't stop worrying about stuff.

And now I'm all worried about Michael. I started looking at cars for him. Apparently he's using the $3000 from my grandmother for that, fine. Well, the qualifications he gave me don't really yield too many results. And then I called him and I was like, "Mike, this I really rough for me, because I'm looking at the same websites you'd be looking at. I mean, like Carfax, Cars.com, Craigslist. But like you're the one that needs to look at them." Then he's like, "Well, you know, mom's away this weekend, so do you think that you could help me? Because I'll need to like driven to these places to like look at the cars and whatever." And I'm thinking, first of all you don't even have the money in your hand yet, so my father who has the money is the one that should be doing this with you. Secondly, you're probably going to finance it—or I don't know, whatever, and like you need somebody to help you that's not me because you're a five year old.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And third, like I really feel like getting him out of my mother's house is kind of enough right now. Like I'm not [unclear 27:51] to spend my day driving him around to like get over one of the cars, like I'd really much rather one of my parents do that. But then here I am feeling guilty and bad. Because he's apparently—he needs to get a car as soon as possible, like within the next week or two, because he's starting his own dog walking business, this is the plan. And all I can think is, you could barely fill out the rental application without crying. You're going to start your own business? And that's another part. Like this anxiety is a lot wrapped up in like I'm really feeling anxious about this Michael and me living together. And then of course my uncle on the phone, who's just abrasive, "If you'd asked me opinion, which you didn't—" Pause. Like he paused for dramatic effect after he said that. "—I would have told you absolutely don't move with Michael ever. I don't have any faith that he's going to be able to pay the rent at all ever." I was like, "Thank you." Like, "I didn't ask your opinion, but you don't ever call me, and like I'm the only one that like facilitates a relationship between [unclear 28:58]." [unclear] parts of the East Coast. [29:00]

But anyway, I am feeling nervous about it. I'm feeling nervous that I don't know what the hell's going on with his job, and he's saying now he's not going to take back the job that he lost that the guy—

THERAPIST: [unclear]

CLIENT: Or maybe part-time. But I need the car first before I can like think about starting this business. I'm like, "No, you need a business proposal, like money, clients. Why is the car—" And now I'm feeling guilty for not having looked up the car and not being able to go up there because I have other fucking plans. Including— I'm nervous, I'm nervous about the whole thing, I'm anxious about money on my own. And then it's going to make me even more resentful, because if he can't pay his rent who do you think's going to fucking pay it? [unclear 29:50] And then I'm going to be like, "Okay." And like what's going on in my life like that I'm literally broke, I have all this credit card debit, and I'm living with my older brother who's getting half his— The car insurance, how's he going to pay the car—how's he going to be making any money and he starts a business? I just don't understand. I don't understand. I really don't understand why they're allowing this. And they're all supporting it. "Yeah, this is a good idea for him." No, get a fucking job, that's a good idea for you. And I'm really upset about it, clearly, and I just don't think I [unclear].

THERAPIST: Yeah. [30:30]

CLIENT: It sounds crazy. Start a business? And then what, you're going to have dogs every night, because it's going to be your own business so you're going to want to get as much as you need money? No, I don't want dogs every night in the apartment. And cats. And the agreement was you keep your fucking job and you can move into the apartment with me. That was literally keep your job and listen to everything that I say in terms of cleanliness. And I offered, like I'll help you with stuff, like I can help you with budgeting and your paychecks and da da da da da da. But now that he's starting his own business, hold on, I don't give a shit. They can—whoever is supporting this and telling him it's a good fucking idea. Do you know how many fucking dog walkers there are out there? They're a dime a fucking dozen. Like he's gonna have some great immediate success that he can say, oh, he might take it part-time on the—you know, the other—the thing. And my mother acts so different, of course, when I was like, "This sounds like a recipe for disaster and I'm really nervous.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: She kind of like was basically was just like, "Well, that's not okay. This is what he's using your grandmother's money for."

THERAPIST: Right. [32:00]

CLIENT: And I was like, "Um, okay." Nothing like, "I know honey, I know you're concerned." Like, "It sounds really shifty." No, they're good. Am I living in the Twilight Zone? Like that's what I feel like. Like this is an acceptable solution.

THERAPIST: Right. It's like you're the only one predicting a real shit storm from this.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. I mean, obviously my uncle, and all of my friends. And there's not even any fucking vans that are newer than 2000 for $3000.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So what, you're going to buy a really old piece of shit? And then on top of the money you just spent all your money you're going to have to be fixing it all the time, it's gonna break down, you're gonna— I mean, he called me like nearly in tears getting frustrated about the [unclear 32:59] going out the window because he couldn't figure out how to turn the GPS back on. And I'm at work and I'm—he's like hyperventilating. And I'm like, "Mike, if you can't figure it out you need to a Verizon store and they will do it for you."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: "No, I've got the dog." I was like, "You're a grown up. Like you don't call your little sister crying because you're frustrated that you can't figure the GPS out." Like what the fuck did we do before the GPS existed? Get some maps and carry them around maybe. Get some, you know, city maps. Like I don't know. This is what I'm talking about. And he wants to start a business? You know what he's been doing since he got fired, laid off, whatever? Like laying around. Now he's painting the condo that my dad—which my father is paying for, by the way, that he was going to have me do for free. And he's like, "If you want to help certainly you still can." I was like, "Absolutely not. If you're paying Michael to do it I'm not fucking helping with anything." Gonna help him get paid? No. I was like, "I offered to do it out of the kindness of my heart, but you guys are all settled." And I told him yesterday, he was like, "Well, I should be painting but—" I was like, "What? Go over there." He was like, "Oh, I don't know, it's hot and I'm at my house." I was like, "You don't have a job." It's just very frustrating.

THERAPIST: Clearly it's incredibly frustrating. [pause] As with Lucas being kind of getting and kind of throwing away.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That you would like give your eye teeth for.

CLIENT: Exactly. And it's kind of similar to Stephanie even too.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Exactly. Right.

THERAPIST: And that's sort of completely taken for granted.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Being very passive.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: In some ways like leaning on you. And not in any way like taking into account [unclear 35:56] this week, but of where you're at and sort of how unfair all that is. [36:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. And I mean, Michael has certainly been like very pleasant when I've spoken to him recently, besides the crying episode with the GPS, but to the same extent he continues to sound very defeated. I mean, like I'll basically tell him, you know, "Mike, I'm sorry." And he'll say, "No, I understand. No, I get it." But then it's like, well, I really think this is something [unclear 36:25]. Well, I'm not fucking asking him to do anything, you know.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So yeah, Mike understands I'm doing stuff, and understands I have an entire apartment to move and the whole thing, but he's still taking it for granted. Just yes, exactly.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And like Michael doesn't have too much that he's throwing away. Like what? Like maybe like a job walking dogs at a company he doesn't own.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But like what happened to a bird in the hand?

THERAPIST: Right, [unclear 37:02] his sort of attitude and approach as it is what he's actually giving up. I mean, in other words he's like, you know, hey, it was something, it was job, I shouldn't be so quick to just say I'm not going to do it, and [unclear] start a business.

CLIENT: Nothing about it. It's just like, "No, no, I'm just starting a business."

THERAPIST: Right. Or my plans are too big to include—

CLIENT: To include guaranteeing money.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: When I'm taking on rent and bills that I haven't had to do in three years.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: He hasn't paid bills in three years. Or longer. I don't know how long my parents were paying his rent. And like all of a sudden he's going to have cable and electricity and gas and groceries and rent and car insurance, and maybe a car payment. Like great. And then he like—we went back and saw the apartment last weekend, and that was nice, and you know, renewed my sense of making a good choice.

THERAPIST: Right. [38:00]

CLIENT: I forgot—I didn't take my drawings, I'm so stupid, but I'm just going to eyeball everything and hope for the best. But anyway. But then of course he like walked into my room, which has a huge separate side room, like and has a big huge space with like five windows. And he's like, "Oh." I was like, "Are you fucking kidding me, Michael? I'm paying $300 more a month than you." And he's still talking about his like art area somewhere in a public space. [pause] I don't know. I don't know how not to worry about stuff, but it also is like nobody's reassuring me at stuff that I am worrying about so that I feel like I don't need to worry about it anymore, or so that you don't worry about it anymore. Nobody has said to me, you know, "I understand you may be concerned about Michael not having a job and starting a business when you're moving—" Nobody's—

THERAPIST: Right. [39:00]

CLIENT: It's been more like, "Don't freak out, don't freak out. Just stop, stop. You need to just support—" You know.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Nobody has said to me like, "I understand this is really not ideal."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And that sucks. I mean, this move and this whole everything, and time of year and everything, is hard enough as it is. And to add this to it? You know what I mean? And I don't mean to say that, "Oh, you're doing this to me," like in terms of like him wanting to start the—you know, [unclear 39:30]. But like kinda. Like you're not making him take the job actual time while he develops his business? They're not forcing him to do that?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: They seem really like, "Well, I'm not sure he's going to take that job [unclear]." Well, you're saying, "Mike, you need to take that job [unclear], because you're going to be living with Trina [unclear]." Unless there's some weird arrangement that he has with my father that I don't know about, which would really be unfortunate.

THERAPIST: Right. [40:00]

CLIENT: Because again, like they're just enabling him. He's going to do this forever. Why does he have no steady job or he's never had a steady job? Because he's had this. He gets rid of a job, or he quits, or he doesn't go, or he gets fired. And then my parents help him figure out a solution, and it's just a cycle.

THERAPIST: Right. He gets fired and then [unclear].

CLIENT: Yeah. Why has he never bag groceries? Why has he never like scooped ice cream? You're so special, Mike? You never served, you never bartended. You know. I mean, he's worked in kitchens on lines, but still, that takes a little more to get those jobs than some of these other things. And so it's like, "Okay, you should have kept those then." Not said, "Oh, I'm making hamburgers." Like literally he was too good for being a line cook.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: [pause] And you're starting a business, but yet you're unemployed and sleeping all day and [unclear 41:15]. Okay. [sighs] [pause] And then it feels really lonely when I get back to my house now. Like I hate the house to begin with, but it feels lonely because like Mindy's like really depressed, and like sometimes not home until a little later. And I also don't really know how to be around her, because I'm like I'm also depressed, but like I just—but I feel like when I'm around her I have to like be like just receptive to her [unclear 41:56], because I'm really sensitive to the fact that she lost a parent, and just feel compassion towards her and just want to like have a—I mean, we're not like best friends and we're not like super close roommates or anything, but like at least now for the past month and she's going through this mourning period I want to like—I mean, like for example, like one of the things I was going to start doing, like that I thought, oh, I can do this ahead of time, is packing all the pictures and the picture frames. But then I was like, oh, I don't want to do that, because I don't want to start taking pictures off the walls and have empty walls, and she's, "Oh, Trina's leaving," and we'll have transitions, and [unclear 42:29]. You know, so that's something I'm not going to do. Because I do feel like, you know, houses feel warmer when you pick stuff up and, you know. So stuff like that. So I haven't wanted to come home and pack or do anything, because I come home, and I feel really lonely, and I miss Franklin, I've been missing him a lot lately, and I don't want to be at home. So then I leave, but then I don't get anything done. I mean, it's just stupid. Tonight my plan is to go home and like try to just really like do a whole bunch of stuff. But, you know, it's hard to stay motivated when you're alone, and you get home and you're alone and you're the only one doing it, you have nobody to do it with. You know, nobody's like—Stephanie's like, "I don't understand. Just like watch some music and—" I'm like, "Um, yeah—"

THERAPIST: [unclear 43:22]. I think you're working in a way like pretty hard [unclear]. Actually like you're becoming really upset. I mean, rather than just sort of pissed off at yourself and everybody else, but instead like—or in addition really, you know, sad and sort of frustrated by how things are. I think in a way it's like more comfortable to just be pissed and just feel insulted, which is how you feel. But also just like sad and defeated and—that's sad.

CLIENT: Mm hm. Right. Exactly.

THERAPIST: Let's stop for now.

CLIENT: Okay. But I'll see you tomorrow.

THERAPIST: For tomorrow, yeah.

CLIENT: Yup.

END TRANSCRIPT